Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Pretty sure our independent characters can only take 1 relic each

Having read the first two lines - the GK book very clearly states one relic per character.

Yup, when reading the new codex getting my list, I missed that rule and no one else caught it yesterday when we played. My mistake but now I definitely have some points to fill in that list.

I'd further save points by dropping greatswords on the Dreadknights. Master Crafted isn't exactly worth paying for, imo, nor is Daemonbane when you're rocking strength 10 anyway. Not sure if the combined savings cost of all above is worth anything. Perhaps a five man squad of something, or even another Librarian.

 obsidiankatana wrote:
I'd further save points by dropping greatswords on the Dreadknights. Master Crafted isn't exactly worth paying for, imo, nor is Daemonbane when you're rocking strength 10 anyway. Not sure if the combined savings cost of all above is worth anything. Perhaps a five man squad of something, or even another Librarian.

Greatswords are only 10 points in this new edition so shaving them off would give me 20 points so it isn't much in terms of points. I mean combined with those relics going bye it does equal a ADL with a Comms Relay but I could afford that without them being there and I could also take the hammers from the Interceptors. I would never actually have them go against vehicles.

What load outs should I give my termies, paladins and purifiers?

Is it easy to magnetize them?

Johnnytorrance wrote:
What load outs should I give my termies, paladins and purifiers?

Is it easy to magnetize them?

I haven't tried to magnetize but I can't see them being difficult. Halberds are definitely worth taking on virtually everyone, imo. They are cheap, +1 S AP3 making them an absolute beast against most things and well worth taking over the free sword. I think 1 hammer in a squad of Terminators/Paladins is almost mandatory to help take care of armor and 2+ Armor, possibly 2 hammers if your list can afford it. A hammer in a Purifier squad might be useful but not needed. Warding staff is good but the only thing I ever have it on is the Librarian because it makes him a beast when it comes to Deny the Witch. Falchions might be useful and a lot of people have been saying that they are nice on units with only one attack.

As far as ranged weapons, Psycannons on both Terminators and Paladins where you can take them and probably Incinerators on the Purifiers but psycannons if you don't mind the Salvo on them. Haven't tried the Psilencers quite honestly but I think that might only be useful on a DK because it is a Heavy weapon.

 obsidiankatana wrote:
I'd further save points by dropping greatswords on the Dreadknights. Master Crafted isn't exactly worth paying for, imo, nor is Daemonbane when you're rocking strength 10 anyway. Not sure if the combined savings cost of all above is worth anything. Perhaps a five man squad of something, or even another Librarian.

Don't forget that the DK no longer has Nemesis Doomfists, just normal powerfists. If you want to be able to force kill another MC, you need either the Sword or Hammer. Both are actually decent buys now, but I lean toward the sword for the master-crafting to help ensure you get that one hit at least.

But why pay for that ability on an NDK when the rest of the army does that stock?

 Homeskillet wrote:

 obsidiankatana wrote:
I'd further save points by dropping greatswords on the Dreadknights. Master Crafted isn't exactly worth paying for, imo, nor is Daemonbane when you're rocking strength 10 anyway. Not sure if the combined savings cost of all above is worth anything. Perhaps a five man squad of something, or even another Librarian.

Don't forget that the DK no longer has Nemesis Doomfists, just normal powerfists. If you want to be able to force kill another MC, you need either the Sword or Hammer. Both are actually decent buys now, but I lean toward the sword for the master-crafting to help ensure you get that one hit at least.

Oh, I totally forgot about that ruling as well so yeah, in order to get force, you have to take those. Also, they are unwieldy so you would be going at Initiative 1 for both the Fists and the Hammer so even though the Hammer is just 5 points, it makes the 10 point cost of the sword that much worth it because you get to go at normal Initiative, it's Master-crafted and the Daemonbane make the sword worth the 10 points you have to pay for it.

 Envihon wrote:

 Homeskillet wrote:

 obsidiankatana wrote:
I'd further save points by dropping greatswords on the Dreadknights. Master Crafted isn't exactly worth paying for, imo, nor is Daemonbane when you're rocking strength 10 anyway. Not sure if the combined savings cost of all above is worth anything. Perhaps a five man squad of something, or even another Librarian.

Don't forget that the DK no longer has Nemesis Doomfists, just normal powerfists. If you want to be able to force kill another MC, you need either the Sword or Hammer. Both are actually decent buys now, but I lean toward the sword for the master-crafting to help ensure you get that one hit at least.

Oh, I totally forgot about that ruling as well so yeah, in order to get force, you have to take those. Also, they are unwieldy so you would be going at Initiative 1 for both the Fists and the Hammer so even though the Hammer is just 5 points, it makes the 10 point cost of the sword that much worth it because you get to go at normal Initiative, it's Master-crafted and the Daemonbane make the sword worth the 10 points you have to pay for it.

They are MCs and ignore Unwieldy.

Unwieldy does not apply to monstrous creatures.

Edit - Nnja'd

Well then, you could pay 5 points for the croquet mallet and get Force attached to it. Normally, yeah, you won't need this and the power fists would be fine to take out most targets but there is one thing that a DK is the best at taking out that gives everyone else a lot of trouble: Wraithknights and that is where that Force comes in handy.

I have always used the Sword when I can afford it and now with it being only 10 points to attach it, I am always going to take it because it has taken out a lot of serious threats before. Plus, it looks awesome, better than that hammer ever did.

Quick question: what would be the best loadout for my GK allies ?

1 x Librarian lvl 2
5 x Terminators in Land Raider Redeemer
1 x Nemesis dreadknight

I want to keep this cheap...around 700 pts

I was planning on giving the LR a multi-melta and running my dreadknight cheap (sword + incinerator) though I'm at a loss as to what to do with my Libby and termies, they'll obviously be riding my LR, but what loadout should I give them ? thanks.

 RedFox wrote:
Quick question: what would be the best loadout for my GK allies ?

1 x Librarian lvl 2
5 x Terminators in Land Raider Redeemer
1 x Nemesis dreadknight

I want to keep this cheap...around 700 pts

I was planning on giving the LR a multi-melta and running my dreadknight cheap (sword + incinerator) though I'm at a loss as to what to do with my Libby and termies, they'll obviously be riding my LR, but what loadout should I give them ? thanks.

It depends on what you want to use them for and what function they are going to have in your army.

 RedFox wrote:
Quick question: what would be the best loadout for my GK allies ?

1 x Librarian lvl 2
5 x Terminators in Land Raider Redeemer
1 x Nemesis dreadknight

I want to keep this cheap...around 700 pts

I was planning on giving the LR a multi-melta and running my dreadknight cheap (sword + incinerator) though I'm at a loss as to what to do with my Libby and termies, they'll obviously be riding my LR, but what loadout should I give them ? thanks.

I'm not sure I would take the Land Raider Redeemer. For its points, you can add a personal teleporter to the Dreadknight, upgrade the librarian to level 3, and add more terminators.

Any tips on how to fight against Deathwing armies?

I am considering spamming normal Termies with Hammers...usually they will strike at the same time as enemy tactical termies, but we're still at a disadvantage due to deathwing assault and mix-match shield + heavy weapons. I figure we'll have to rely on our libbies with psychic powers, but how can we turn things in our favor?

Clearly we are also outgunned in the dakka department as we can't just bring them down from volume of shots...the DA do a better job at that with dakka banner and LRCs


Of course, this will mean we have to rely on NDKs and Draigo to do most of the terminator slicing.

 RedFox wrote:
Quick question: what would be the best loadout for my GK allies ?

1 x Librarian lvl 2
5 x Terminators in Land Raider Redeemer
1 x Nemesis dreadknight

I want to keep this cheap...around 700 pts

I was planning on giving the LR a multi-melta and running my dreadknight cheap (sword + incinerator) though I'm at a loss as to what to do with my Libby and termies, they'll obviously be riding my LR, but what loadout should I give them ? thanks.

It'd be much better if you ran a ML3 Libby, one 5 man unit of Terminators with a psycannon and a hammer (and maybe the rest halbreds) and TWO dreadknights with personal teleporters.
You can't do this as 'allies' but you can do it using the GK special detachment, the one that has bonuses to deep striking (let's you do the reserve roll on turn 1, let's them run and shoot). I think that would be a lot better than using a land raider...

 Sir Arun wrote:
Any tips on how to fight against Deathwing armies?

I am considering spamming normal Termies with Hammers...usually they will strike at the same time as enemy tactical termies, but we're still at a disadvantage due to deathwing assault and mix-match shield + heavy weapons. I figure we'll have to rely on our libbies with psychic powers, but how can we turn things in our favor?

Clearly we are also outgunned in the dakka department as we can't just bring them down from volume of shots...the DA do a better job at that with dakka banner and LRCs


Of course, this will mean we have to rely on NDKs and Draigo to do most of the terminator slicing.

We are actually not outgunned by deathwing, we have better shooting in the form of Psycannons. GK are better off against Deathwing than they are against us. In this matchup, I'd actually advocate for going first, dumping our Termies or Pallies on an objective, and wait for the deathwing assault. Let them come down right next to you and fire stormbolters, and maybe a cyclone launcher. Big deal. Maybe lose one. Then retaliate with two psycannons and your stormbolters, probably cause one more casualty to them than they do to you. Charge in, likely kill one or two more just due to weight of dice (particularly if you have prescience on the unit or just Pallies in general with WS5). There should only be a few left to swing their power fists, and then you also get to swing your hammers. You will take casualties, sure, but his unit gets wiped and yours doesn't.

you forget that when they come in, all their ranged weapons get the twin-link

what's more, if they employ Deathwing Knights, they can pretty much 1-hit kill our NDKs

they have access to stormshields which will absorb the few deamonhammers we can muster


On a sidenote, I am wondering whether halberds are really worth it, given how Hammerhand brings us to S6 and this wounds most enemy infantry on a 2+ already.

Yeah, don't throw terminators or paladins into CC against thunder hammers and storm shields. It won't end well.

 Sir Arun wrote:
you forget that when they come in, all their ranged weapons get the twin-link

what's more, if they employ Deathwing Knights, they can pretty much 1-hit kill our NDKs

they have access to stormshields which will absorb the few deamonhammers we can muster


On a sidenote, I am wondering whether halberds are really worth it, given how Hammerhand brings us to S6 and this wounds most enemy infantry on a 2+ already.

Yes, but they're twin-linked stormbolters, so still not a ton of worry there. Plus we can easily twin-link as well with the addition of an IC to the squad taking prescience.

As to deathwing knights versus our NDK, yeah you're dead on. But really, who wants to be in cc with deathwing knights? Just shoot them a lot and wait for the ones. The NDK has the mobility to stay away from the Knights, however.

With halberds, my first game with the new codex showed that they are still useful. GK have too many psychic powers that are great to use, and not enough warp charges to necessarily cast them reliably. Sometimes a base strength of 5 will help save warp charges for something else, particularly when the cost of getting that extra strength is so minimal.

 Homeskillet wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:
you forget that when they come in, all their ranged weapons get the twin-link

what's more, if they employ Deathwing Knights, they can pretty much 1-hit kill our NDKs

they have access to stormshields which will absorb the few deamonhammers we can muster


On a sidenote, I am wondering whether halberds are really worth it, given how Hammerhand brings us to S6 and this wounds most enemy infantry on a 2+ already.

Yes, but they're twin-linked stormbolters, so still not a ton of worry there. Plus we can easily twin-link as well with the addition of an IC to the squad taking prescience.

As to deathwing knights versus our NDK, yeah you're dead on. But really, who wants to be in cc with deathwing knights? Just shoot them a lot and wait for the ones. The NDK has the mobility to stay away from the Knights, however.

With halberds, my first game with the new codex showed that they are still useful. GK have too many psychic powers that are great to use, and not enough warp charges to necessarily cast them reliably. Sometimes a base strength of 5 will help save warp charges for something else, particularly when the cost of getting that extra strength is so minimal.

That twin linking stormbolters still makes a difference (not much, but it's there, the more 2+ saves you make me roll, the more I will fail), and that's not even counting the heavy weapons in the Deathwing squads.

Anyway, I definitely agree with the halberds. Taking them frees up warp charge dice for other things. I'm pretty much always taking a ML3 Librarian, rolling on the Divination chart, and I will nearly always want to cast every one of those powers.

Alright...I guess I can squeeze that 2nd LR in my BT army and use my GK allies as a deep strike force using the special formation

So if I'm teleporting one dreadknight, a libby plus 4 termies and 1 justicar...how should I equip them specifically ? don't forget I want to keep this cheap because I really want that 2nd LR and will have to save point to fit him in my 2000pts BT detachment

 RedFox wrote:

Spoiler:

Envihon wrote:

 RedFox wrote:
Quick question: what would be the best loadout for my GK allies ?

1 x Librarian lvl 2
5 x Terminators in Land Raider Redeemer
1 x Nemesis dreadknight

I want to keep this cheap...around 700 pts

I was planning on giving the LR a multi-melta and running my dreadknight cheap (sword + incinerator) though I'm at a loss as to what to do with my Libby and termies, they'll obviously be riding my LR, but what loadout should I give them ? thanks.

It depends on what you want to use them for and what function they are going to have in your army.

Tannhauser42 wrote:

 RedFox wrote:
Quick question: what would be the best loadout for my GK allies ?

1 x Librarian lvl 2
5 x Terminators in Land Raider Redeemer
1 x Nemesis dreadknight

I want to keep this cheap...around 700 pts

I was planning on giving the LR a multi-melta and running my dreadknight cheap (sword + incinerator) though I'm at a loss as to what to do with my Libby and termies, they'll obviously be riding my LR, but what loadout should I give them ? thanks.

I'm not sure I would take the Land Raider Redeemer. For its points, you can add a personal teleporter to the Dreadknight, upgrade the librarian to level 3, and add more terminators.

Super Newb wrote:

 RedFox wrote:
Quick question: what would be the best loadout for my GK allies ?

1 x Librarian lvl 2
5 x Terminators in Land Raider Redeemer
1 x Nemesis dreadknight

I want to keep this cheap...around 700 pts

I was planning on giving the LR a multi-melta and running my dreadknight cheap (sword + incinerator) though I'm at a loss as to what to do with my Libby and termies, they'll obviously be riding my LR, but what loadout should I give them ? thanks.

It'd be much better if you ran a ML3 Libby, one 5 man unit of Terminators with a psycannon and a hammer (and maybe the rest halbreds) and TWO dreadknights with personal teleporters.
You can't do this as 'allies' but you can do it using the GK special detachment, the one that has bonuses to deep striking (let's you do the reserve roll on turn 1, let's them run and shoot). I think that would be a lot better than using a land raider...

Alright...I guess I can squeeze that 2nd LR in my BT army and use my GK allies as a deep strike force using the special formation

So if I'm teleporting one dreadknight, a libby plus 4 termies and 1 justicar...how should I equip them specifically ? don't forget I want to keep this cheap because I really want that 2nd LR and will have to save point to fit him in my 2000pts BT detachment

This is my vote:

ML3 Libby
With termies I'd do 4 halberds and one hammer
NDK should have a teleporter with both Incinerator and Psycannon (makes him much more versatile)

If i'm remembering all my costs correctly off the top of my head that should cost you 528 points. You can always dump the incinerator or the psycannon depending on the role you're planning for the dreadknight, and maybe add a sword if you're expecting Monstrous Creatures.

I played my game last night and was easily the juggernaut of the 2v2 game, granted I got very lucky. It was GK and Chaos (I know I know, heresy) vs Tau and Black Templar.

I had

GM with psycannon and soul glaive. I rolled a 6 for warlord trait so he ended up with Sanctuary, misfortune, and prescience. When all three were activated, they absolutely destroyed everything.

Libby with Liber and ML3, storm bolter. He had invisibility, psychic shriek, gate of infinity, and molten beam.

Techmarine with cuirass of sacrifice

3 man paladin squad and apothecary with one hammer and two halberds

One 5-man terminator squad with one psycannon, 2 halberds, two swords, one hammer

One 5-man purifier squad with two incinerators, one halberd, two swords

One 5-man interceptor squad- one incinerator, two halberds, three swords.

I lost the interceptor to mass tau fire, lost three terminators to a LotD, and one purifier to a LotD. My paladins were extremely durable especially with Sanctuary on (my GM rolled with them). I lost a total of 1 wound with them.They were challenged by a black templar brotherhood champion and squad of marines/scouts. They had no chance.

Most useless character: the techmarine hands down. I should have tabled him and added in two more paladins. 1 wound is too fragile to make a big difference despite his armor. This is my third time fielding him and the third time he has died before doing anything.

The incinerators made back the biggest amount of points. I completely wiped out three squads of tau (1 FW, 1 PF, and 1 drone squad). Psychic shriek failed 2/3 times but the one time it worked took out a whole tac squad of templars.

Really though, those paladins took everything from a broadside, crisis unit, and commander. a 4++ with Sanctuary and FNP is great, and the GM's 3++ with sanctuary is also fantastic. Without misfortune I would have had trouble taking out AP2 targets though.

The inerceptors worked well as disruption units, nothing special. The purifiers were great at setting everything on fire. Especially with the libby attached and using gate of infinity: warp--> cleansing flame --> 2 incinerators. Invisibility was a huge plus too.

The terminator squad failed all f the DS rolls and didn't come in til turn 4. I raised a question, I thought the rule states after two failures you come in automatically on your third try. Because GK can DS from turn 1 I argued I shouldn't have to wait til turn 4. After they landed the LotD had some choice words for them...

The new codex's rule to DS in turn one also made a huge difference as I was able to land and start soaking up fire/killing everything with the paladin super squad.

 Envihon wrote:
I have seen the power of Sanctuary when AP 2 weaponry is around especially if you have someone like Draigo around to get a 2++ to tank everything for you (I had a Dreadknight within 12" of Draigos squad to cast Sanctuary).

You can't target Sanctuary and it only affects models in the same unit as the caster, so only the Dreadknight would have the improved invulnerable save in this case. The 12" range is only for making Daemons treat it as dangerous terrain.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sixcyl wrote:
Techmarine with cuirass of sacrifice

I'm not sure a Techmarine can even get that relic, as it replaces the model's Terminator armour and a Techmarine has Artificer armour instead.

What is the thinking behind cuirass on the techmarine? Iwnd is wasted, seems expensive for fnp on one model. Did techmarines get much better / cheaper?

Yea, Techmarine cant take Cuirass , it can only be taken by models that already have TDA as it replaces TDA

And IWND is a waste on a model with only one wound