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The only loss the GK took was in the cash price to buy their rules. That's a legit ripoff, but buying the special edition of codexes doesn't give you a ML1 across the board, so tell it to GW, not Dakka - the points per model for the gear and stat is still tops, no matter how much they want to whine about having to rely on 35 point Psyker terminators instead of force weapon psyker troops or "Wah, my 2+ save 30" shunting psyker MC only has a heavy torrent flamer, it should be AP2 D3 wounds". Cry the Eldar a T3 river.

 Desubot wrote:

@Raw: The point i was getting accross is that the SL isnt the issue about the sepeant, its the rest of it. Obviously the rear armor is the weakness but most players with working braincells that can spot a drop pod will obviously put rear into a LOS Blocker or the table edge and not shoot the shield unless they have too. and to add to that (IIRC) its a 3+ Jink save as a second line of defense. + if it isnt outright removed the guys inside can generally handle most drop cargo + the serpent can join in if need be.

My personal prefrence would just be to nerf the range on it to like 12-18" and call it a day. The thing shouldn't be 60"

WraithKnights, yeah they're a bit much, but that's a MC issue, not an Eldar specific (and theirs is only a 3+, unlike a certain other pair of MC....)


Who is firing it out of scatter laser range anyway? It needs to be in 24" range to get the firepower people always assume it has and then the AV10 is a tremendous factor. The model is 7" long. Even if it is butt to the back edge, drop an ironclad pod in front of it and then either walk forward if you are scattered away or walk back to block it's movement and if the shield is still up. You still get a S8 pot shot without the metla rule. I've had a heavy flamer explode a defiler' rear AV10 and the serpent can't hit back when you get that close.

1" from each model means you get a ~5" bubble around the ironclad, a 6" bubble around the pod and a 7" null bubble between them. Given the model is 7" long, even if it goes nose to 1" nose from you in the movement phase, it can't even flat out 18" over you and your pod. You will either force them to flat out and give you a free S8 shot the next round, still be in charge range or take your melta s8 to the face if they can't drop yoru AV13 with a 1+d6 S7 AP- shot and give up their shield before you melta them and then charge.


WWSWSWS------IIICC------DDDPPPX (pod scatters away)
WWSWSWSDDDPPPX------IIICC (pod scatters toward WS)

These are not the only units on the board, so some of the serpent spam is getting logjammed somewhere and your pod deployment determines which ones get stuck. You dictate that, not the serpent player. Toss a a couple combat squaded pods behind them and there's no where for them to run to at all. Also, try playing with actual line of sight blocking terrain. You should not be able to see all the other 3 corners of the board from any corner. Pretend your hills are 3" high if you are using grey felt cutouts or whatever.

Granted not everyone has "who cares about S6 guns" ironclads, but Tau have IC HYMP and IA, IM has tons of stuff (no one takes it because Battle Cannon = moar fun!!). If your complaint is that your codex sucks, suggest improvements for it. But make them reasonable. I love Chapter Tactics on My Spae MArines, that's why I switched. Eldar can't play a slugfest game, a CC game (Wraith are too slow) or an air superiority game (AV10 front sucks). But Space Marines? They can do anything and are EXACTLY what a codex should be. The Eldar need craftworlds or "path of" chapter tactics equivalent, so does everyone else other than GK and Sisters, because, frankly, they can just use their models and the SM codex and they're covered.

So you are seriously saying a Wave Serpent is a fair and balanced unit in the game?

Seriously?

Seriously?

Seriously?

Its too good for the many and varied reasons that I and other ELDAR players have confirmed in so many other pages, threads, forums etc.

If your complaint is that your codex sucks, suggest improvements for it. But make them reasonable

been there done that, wrote a fandex - soooo how many pick up games against Mr Cheese Serpent spam does that get to play against then?

Don't be a Morgorth - admit the problem exists

are you kidding....i love how everyone sees the eldar as being overpowered.....to those of you who believe this, you should learn to build better armies.......

there is nothing in the eldar codex that is overpowered....as a matter of fact the eldar codex contains a bunch of crap units....

i play with one of the best eldar players i have ever seen, and he doesnt use the serpents, as a matter of fact he laughs at people who complain about serpents....

talk about being overpowered have you looked at the imperial armies.... have you actually looked at the rules with allies and battle brothers..... do you understand that marnies can get into chimeras.... or units that cant usually get into drop pods, now they can with the new ally rules....before you start talking about an army being overpowered, you should actually play with some compentant players.....

Varnos wrote:
are you kidding....i love how everyone sees the eldar as being overpowered.....to those of you who believe this, you should learn to build better armies.......

Ah, the 'L2P' argument. Clearly everyone who thinks things like wave serpents are overpowered only think so because they suck, right?

there is nothing in the eldar codex that is overpowered....as a matter of fact the eldar codex contains a bunch of crap units....

Yeah, so you genuinely, truly, and honestly think the Wave Serpent is fine?

No one is arguing there are some lemons in the Eldar codex; balance means to fix things that are broken, for better or for worse.

i play with one of the best eldar players i have ever seen, and he doesnt use the serpents, as a matter of fact he laughs at people who complain about serpents....

Oh look, anecdotal evidence presented as fact! So you know this one guy, who you happen to think is the best, laughs at people who think serpents are really good. Tell me how that is any way an argument for the strength of serpents?

talk about being overpowered have you looked at the imperial armies.... have you actually looked at the rules with allies and battle brothers..... do you understand that marnies can get into chimeras.... or units that cant usually get into drop pods, now they can with the new ally rules....before you start talking about an army being overpowered, you should actually play with some compentant players.....

And this has relevance to the balance issues in the Eldar codex...how?

In summary, your entire post is a childish 'L2P' argument backed up by a gakky anecdote about one player you know, summarized by a conclusion about armies this thread isn't about.

2/10.

Try presenting some arguments about why you think units in the book aren't balanced. Try presenting solutions. Try explaining using math and comparisons and roles.

*Edit* Try using the shift key and/or caps locks. A sentence begins with a capitalized letter and ends with a single period, not an ellipse.

Varnos wrote:
are you kidding....i love how everyone sees the eldar as being overpowered.....to those of you who believe this, you should learn to build better armies.......

there is nothing in the eldar codex that is overpowered....as a matter of fact the eldar codex contains a bunch of crap units....

i play with one of the best eldar players i have ever seen, and he doesnt use the serpents, as a matter of fact he laughs at people who complain about serpents....

talk about being overpowered have you looked at the imperial armies.... have you actually looked at the rules with allies and battle brothers..... do you understand that marnies can get into chimeras.... or units that cant usually get into drop pods, now they can with the new ally rules....before you start talking about an army being overpowered, you should actually play with some compentant players.....

I think Morgorth has made a new account.

Varnos wrote:
are you kidding....i love how everyone sees the eldar as being overpowered.....to those of you who believe this, you should learn to build better armies.......

there is nothing in the eldar codex that is overpowered....as a matter of fact the eldar codex contains a bunch of crap units....

i play with one of the best eldar players i have ever seen, and he doesnt use the serpents, as a matter of fact he laughs at people who complain about serpents....

talk about being overpowered have you looked at the imperial armies.... have you actually looked at the rules with allies and battle brothers..... do you understand that marnies can get into chimeras.... or units that cant usually get into drop pods, now they can with the new ally rules....before you start talking about an army being overpowered, you should actually play with some compentant players.....

Must be nice to be such an awesome player.................I am overcome with awe and envy.......... oh wait thats all wrong.

Did you even read the bit that said I AM A ELDAR player - guess not

 Sir Arun wrote:
Let's face it - the Eldar codex is currently the best in the entire 40k meta (crazy ally combinations and clever builds aside). So in order to no longer get called cheese and beardy, I've devised five simple things an Eldar player who is sick and tired of developing a guilty conscience every time he brings his army on the table, could do:

1) Dont use the offensive power of the serpent shield

2) Ignore the laserlock special rule on his scatterlasers

3) Pretend his shuriken catapults and shuriken cannons do not have bladestorm (make an exception for the Dire Avengers who after all lost their actual bladestorm power from previous codex and thus deserve it)

4) Do not field more than 1 Wraithknight

5) Do not ally with Dark Eldar, or if you do, do it for modelling reasons and not to abuse their webway portal to DS your toughest stuff.

...if an Eldar player observed these 5 house rules, would you say Eldar are a fair and balanced army and no longer deserve to be hissed at?

no. Just no.

C'mon guys, don't bully Varnos just because he has a different opinion to you.

SGTPozy wrote:
C'mon guys, don't bully Varnos just because he has a different opinion to you.

It's not just about having a different opinion, it's about how you go about expressing that opinion.

SGTPozy wrote:
C'mon guys, don't bully Varnos just because he has a different opinion to you.

We're bullying him because he thinks he's right and anyone who disagrees with him must not have read the rules.

SGTPozy wrote:
C'mon guys, don't bully Varnos just because he has a different opinion to you.

It has nothing to do with having a different opinion.

It has everything to do with how one backs that opinion and presents themselves.

Walking into a thread and starting off with nothing but condescension and an extremely useless 'learn to play n00b' attitude backed by nothing more than a gakky anecdote is going to be met equally with dismissal.

Its great to have an opinion on something, but you have to at least make an attempt at an effort to back it up with something.