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5 hostages have escaped now. Should be about 10 left.

And I'm not saying shooting the guy should be their first course of action. I'm just saying that your statement that as soon as someone fires a round, all of the hostages are dead, isn't necessarily true.

Reports that another 2 people have fled the cafe. Still no word if they were released or escaped. Video footage looked like they escaped and ran for it, but I don't think anyone would be exactly calm even if they were just released.

 Hordini wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Hordini wrote:
Unless the round that gets fired is straight into the gunman's head.

And the police don't necessarily get to decide whether or not bloodshed will occur. The gunman gets a vote too.

Two words. Deadmans Switch.

We have no idea. That would be stupid.

We have no idea about the situation. The situation could escalate tremendously

If this is handled poorly it is an international incident.

If it is handled correctly it would be reported for years.

Like I said, the gunman gets a vote. If he has a deadman's switch, everybody is fethed. If he is truly an Islamic extremist trying to do some kind of terror attack, do you really think the police are going to just talk him out of it?

Hence why I don't think it is smart to kill him. If we lose the gunmen we lose all information on the issue. And the situation escalates even further. And the brass will be chasing ghosts for years to come.

I rather save the money and logistical time and just take him alive than shooting him and losing all potential information we can gather on the issue.

If it was a robbery situation you can kill them, but a terrorist that is information and information is the only way to win in this world and gather any intelligence.


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 Hordini wrote:
And I'm not saying shooting the guy should be their first course of action. I'm just saying that your statement that as soon as someone fires a round, all of the hostages are dead, isn't necessarily true.

Well all it takes is him to turn his gun on the hostages. And they are basically dead.

Or he escapes. And the situation esclates a firefight is something that we should avoid in Sydney, Australia.

Yep. Two women just got out. They were running like mad.

 Hordini wrote:
If he is truly an Islamic extremist trying to do some kind of terror attack, do you really think the police are going to just talk him out of it?

Probably not.

Although the chances of that happening decrease significantly if they just shoot him.

 Asherian Command wrote:

Well all it takes is him to turn his gun on the hostages. And they are basically dead.

What did you think I meant when I said the gunman gets a vote too?


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 insaniak wrote:

 Hordini wrote:
If he is truly an Islamic extremist trying to do some kind of terror attack, do you really think the police are going to just talk him out of it?

Probably not.

Although the chances of that happening decrease significantly if they just shoot him.

Well, yeah. I'm not saying that shooting him should be their first course of action. Although to be honest as long as they can save the hostages, I don't really care if they shoot him or not.

My gf's mum was locked in one of the nearby buildings, not sure if she still is.

So somewhere between 3 and 7 hostages have made it out... if they all escaped, then my guess is - if he were truly an extremist - hed prolly have killed the remaining hostages at this point and put a bullet in his own head. Its pretty clear he doesnt have positive control on the situation or the hostages and whatever his plan is is rather quickly unravelling.

 n0t_u wrote:
My gf's mum was locked in one of the nearby buildings, not sure if she still is.

My wife was also in lock down nearby. She's pretty freaked out by the whole thing. My building was also locked down, but we are not closer, it was just precautionary.

chaos0xomega wrote:
So somewhere between 3 and 7 hostages have made it out... if they all escaped, then my guess is - if he were truly an extremist - hed prolly have killed the remaining hostages at this point and put a bullet in his own head. Its pretty clear he doesnt have positive control on the situation or the hostages and whatever his plan is is rather quickly unravelling.

Except if he is an "extremist", shooting themselves isn't their MO. If he is an extremist, he'll either go out in a blaze of glory, trying to take as many infidels with him, or he'll set off a suicide vest if he has one. He has some kind of connection, depending on the artillery he brought with him, which I haven't seen mentioned anywhere.

If he is a real "extremist" they don't need to take him alive to get intel. Intelligence agencies will pull plenty of crap off of his computer. If he is a real extremist, there will be some indicating intelligence at his residence. My guess is he is a wanna-be, trying to hold out as long as he can either hoping to rally some other mooselimbs to his aid, or he is a batgak insane moron. Again falling back on this semi-legit theory he is an "extremist", if he is connected to that type of movement we'll know pretty easily.


ETA: Anyone else having issues with the boards loading?

I am, yeah. It's taking a while to load pages.

Same here.


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Looks like he wants an ISIS flag and a phone call with Tony Abbott.

Well, he picked a pretty good spot- coffee shop food should keep him going for ages. Though what if he needs the loo? lol. Can't keep an eye on hostages while you're on the john..

 angelofvengeance wrote:
Well, he picked a pretty good spot- coffee shop food should keep him going for ages. Though what if he needs the loo? lol. Can't keep an eye on hostages while you're on the john..

Considering 5 escaped I don't think he was keeping an eye on them anyway.

Sky news four bombs in area two in business area.



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Four armed men in ghent apartment block. Hostages taken Belgium police on scene.

http://www.reddit.com/live/u2pwph99rvy6

If you're not near a t.v this is pretty helpful

As is trending across all news stations, forums and social media sites, please don't post this scums demands.

Let's recap.

That guy supposedly makes four explosive devices, then manages to plants two of them in high security areas of the city, without altering anyone.

Then he proceeds to plant two more in a coffee shop of all places, lets multiple hostages escape, asks for an IS flag and a call to the Prime Minister?

Not to diminish the gravity of the situation for all those still in immediate damage, but he sounds like a random wackjob more than an actual extremist with any actual backing.

I hope the hostages are rescued safe and sound, but a wider question remains that perhaps Australian posters can answer:

Why did Australia get involved in the war on terror in the first place?

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I hope the hostages are rescued safe and sound, but a wider question remains that perhaps Australian posters can answer:

Why did Australia get involved in the war on terror in the first place?

A Prime Minister who was rather keen to get on George W's good side.

And more recently, a Prime Minister who calls himself a Humanitarian, but dreams of being a Crusader, and who wants to prove to the world that our little island is important .

There's been plenty of news recently by major terrorist organisations calling for their Muslim brothers to initiate lone wolf style attacks because they're much harder for Governments to get wind of.

Just because he's on his own doesn't mean he's an isolated element. He's acting indirectly under those orders.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Hordini wrote:
They don't necessarily have to take him alive to be able to find that out.

That's true, but it's often easier to find out someone's motivations when you can just ask them.

Prison is a deterrent to terrorists, martyrdom is not. This was why different scum like Bobby Sands went on hunger strike. They didn't mind dying for the cause, they didn't like being treated like criminal scum.

With religious fanatics this is magnified somewhat, if the scum die they become martyrs, and icons if they get life tariffs in supermax, they do not inspire and you can play them also.

Most serial killers are not taken alive either, those that are becomes subject cases for mental health and useful to the profession, with politicasl cases you can always spin up what happens to them inside. The biggest bonus is if they convert to another religion, or go to seed. You can play that to the press and demystify them.

Should find this guy's family and do a Jack Bauer on him to trick him into giving up.

there is one solution. hold the gunmans family hostage until he lets the hostages go.
hey, I said it was a solution, not a good one. honestly this is a bit of a joke, considering five (seven?) people have escaped and if this guy's a terrorist he should quit his day job.
also, I think this is the first time something has happened in australia and been put in the OT forum.

 insaniak wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I hope the hostages are rescued safe and sound, but a wider question remains that perhaps Australian posters can answer:

Why did Australia get involved in the war on terror in the first place?

A Prime Minister who was rather keen to get on George W's good side.

And more recently, a Prime Minister who calls himself a Humanitarian, but dreams of being a Crusader, and who wants to prove to the world that our little island is important .

A fair assessment. Britain has long been the 51st state, so it was no surprise to see us getting involved, but Australia?

I'm scratching my head as to where the strategic threat to Australia was coming from.

The irony is, events like these will be used to justify further Australian action in the Middle East, and yet, you could argue that getting involved in the first place was the catalyst. A chicken and egg scenario.


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 the shrouded lord wrote:
there is one solution. hold the gunmans family hostage until he lets the hostages go.
hey, I said it was a solution, not a good one. honestly this is a bit of a joke, considering five (seven?) people have escaped and if this guy's a terrorist he should quit his day job.
also, I think this is the first time something has happened in australia and been put in the OT forum.

What if he doesn't have a family? Agree with your other point that he seems to be an amateur, which implies this is his first attempt, which probably makes him more dangerous.




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 Orlanth wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Hordini wrote:
They don't necessarily have to take him alive to be able to find that out.

That's true, but it's often easier to find out someone's motivations when you can just ask them.

Prison is a deterrent to terrorists, martyrdom is not. This was why different scum like Bobby Sands went on hunger strike. They didn't mind dying for the cause, they didn't like being treated like criminal scum.

With religious fanatics this is magnified somewhat, if the scum die they become martyrs, and icons if they get life tariffs in supermax, they do not inspire and you can play them also.

Most serial killers are not taken alive either, those that are becomes subject cases for mental health and useful to the profession, with politicasl cases you can always spin up what happens to them inside. The biggest bonus is if they convert to another religion, or go to seed. You can play that to the press and demystify them.

I'm no fan of the IRA, but Bobby Sands was a completely different kettle of fish. Irish Republicanism has been a long and documented struggle, and to give them their due, the IRA could be negotiated with, because they had a clear goal. ISIL on the other hand, seems to be nihilism - terrorism for its own sake. I doubt if they know what they want.

To be fair, the UK and the USA have enjoyed a long history of co-operation dating back to the Napoleonic war. Hardly a 51st state.

Also, I don't think Abbott joined in on the war against terrorism just to be part of the club. "Islamic" (let's be honest, they're hiding behind someone else's interpretation of Islam) extremism is a worldwide threat which needs to be stamped out. Enough blood has been spilled in the name of religion.

 angelofvengeance wrote:
Should find this guy's family and do a Jack Bauer on him to trick him into giving up.

Your plan is as stupid as it is immoral.

Aussie's showing support for muslims not involved in this.
hashtag I'll ride with you. Good for the Aussies

Anyone in "Down Under" figure out how radicalize is the guy their dealing with? Is he Home Grown? Recent arrival?

 Medium of Death wrote:
Is Islam compatible with the West?

feth your question. Seriously, feth it. Not because of the reasons that were already mentioned, though, but because worse stuff happens pretty much every day in non-Western countries, and yet that never prompted you to ask yourself “Is Islam compatible with peace/humanity/whatever”. feth your question because it frames the world as the Western victims and the evil foreign all-Muslims aggressors, when really the first one to suffer from Islam live in countries with a Muslim majority. I have no problem with you criticizing Islam, hell I would likely be the first to agree, but building a narrative where the victims of Islam are poor westerners, or where what happens in non-Western countries is some non-relevant issue that we should not care about because they are strangers? I am going to get all angry on you.


Never ask that question again.