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Good riddance to bad rubbish.

Am I the only guy who thinks most of the injured was due to the derpy rambo approach of the security forces?

Edited by Manchu

I think it's too early to judge any action taken by police until the details of exactly what happened come out. From early reports, it appears they heard a gunshot inside and that prompted the forced entry--which I assume is not unusual in hostage situations (as obviously, the negotiation window has passed when that occurs).

The video of them throwing flashbangs when other members were inside seemed strange to me too but I am not a SWAT member so have no idea if that's a standard of practice when your buddies have light diminishing helmets, how it was laid out inside, where they were inside, etc. We'll have to wait and see.

Looks like the hostage taker was a Class A scumbag with multiple sexual offensives, citations for writing nasty letters to widows of deceased soldiers (Freaking really?!) and probable murder charge pending. It appears the world is a better place without him, it's unfortunate he was able to pull this off before Australia was rid of him.

 AgeOfEgos wrote:

Looks like the hostage taker was a Class A scumbag with multiple sexual offensives, citations for writing nasty letters to widows of deceased soldiers (Freaking really?!) and probable murder charge pending. It appears the world is a better place without him, it's unfortunate he was able to pull this off before Australia was rid of him.

Ya know, it really does seem that the quality of "terrorist" has really declined since John McClane took out Hans and "Simon" Gruber, and COL. Stuart.




In all seriousness I'm glad this guy was taken down. I haven't read all the comments on this thread (only the last couple pages), so was it ever clarified whether this guy was accepted or aligned with ISIS/ISIL?

Aye. If he started executing hostages then the LEO is forced to engage

He looks to be a lone nut. In more ways than one. We'll see what comes out of it in the next days and weeks to see if he actually had any meaningful connections.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-16/iranian-cleric-man-haron-monis-named-as-man-behind-sydney-siege/5969246

 Sir Arun wrote:
Am I the only guy who thinks most of the injured was due to the derpy rambo approach of the security forces?

I think they handled it reasonably well. Derpy, no, they got the perp and freed the hostages. Nobody can truly guarantee he won't get a pop off though.
Nevertheless I am surprised the police handled it, I thought they would have left a job like this to SASR.

The SASR deals with threats on the West coast (TAG-West). TAG-East is made up of 4RAR Commandoes, and I'd guess they made an informed assessment based on the situation to let the NSW Police deal with it.

http://www.defence.gov.au/news/armynews/editions/1059/topstories/story01.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactical_assault_group


Automatically Appended Next Post:
They also cross-train with police forces, so there's that.

Just had 3 casualties confirmed.
dill weed plus man 34 and woman 38
1 officer wounded with "gunshot pellet to the face", non-critical

They find out where he got the shotgun yet?

You can legally obtain shotguns, rifles and pistols within certain parameters. Gun laws also vary from state to state, and illegal guns aren't incredibly hard to come by if you have any kind of criminal connections.

We have pretty tight gun control, but it's not a blanket "all guns are illegal" as the US media seems to like to report. It's just a far cry from being able to walk into a shop randomly off the street one day and buy one like you would a fishing rod or a hat.


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Police Commissioner has said that they heard shots inside which prompted their immediate action.

Glad they got the guy, but sad that he was able to take two innocents with him.

Could we not turn this into a gun control debate btw? It's not that tasteful.

 Azazelx wrote:
You can legally obtain shotguns, rifles and pistols within certain parameters. Gun laws also vary from state to state, and illegal guns aren't incredibly hard to come by if you have any kind of criminal connections.

We have pretty tight gun control, but it's not a blanket "all guns are illegal" as the US media seems to like to report. It's just a far cry from being able to walk into a shop randomly off the street one day and buy one like you would a fishing rod or a hat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Police Commissioner has said that they heard shots inside which prompted their immediate action.

Thanks Az for the clarification
Going to go out on the limb and say the he executed two which sounds right with the time frame on the first shot follow b the second shot and recieving the "go" command. Third shot nail the first stacker though the door (pellet) in the face. Follow by the hail of automatic fire.

No intel to be gained being he "Lone Wolf" it. I saw that mention somewhere on here to take him alive for intel.

 Da Boss wrote:
Glad they got the guy, but sad that he was able to take two innocents with him.
Could we not turn this into a gun control debate btw? It's not that tasteful.

I'm in no way going there and not interested in that debate gaking up the thread. The question appeared reasonable in this case and I thought it worth clarifying the way things work here for non-locals.

Oh, I wasn't aiming that at you at all Azazelx. There's been a few posts tending that way before yours that I was thinking of.
Sorry for the confusion.

 Azazelx wrote:
You can legally obtain shotguns, rifles and pistols within certain parameters. Gun laws also vary from state to state, and illegal guns aren't incredibly hard to come by if you have any kind of criminal connections.

We have pretty tight gun control, but it's not a blanket "all guns are illegal" as the US media seems to like to report. It's just a far cry from being able to walk into a shop randomly off the street one day and buy one like you would a fishing rod or a hat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Police Commissioner has said that they heard shots inside which prompted their immediate action.

Its not hard to find any weapon in the states, or anywhere. You just need to know where to look. I.E. Black Market is far reaching and you could find it in special places....

I knew a Detective who said he wasted his life trying to deal with it, but everytime he shut one down, another popped up.

Nasty business really.

 Jihadin wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Police Commissioner has said that they heard shots inside which prompted their immediate action.

Going to go out on the limb and say the he executed two which sounds right with the time frame on the first shot follow b the second shot and recieving the "go" command. Third shot nail the first stacker though the door (pellet) in the face. Follow by the hail of automatic fire.

Honestly too early to do anything more than speculate. There were (unconfirmed) reports of a heart attack with one of the hostages earlier, so that could be a cause of death, or it could be one of the people taken to hospital. Also 1 woman in hospital with gunshot wound to the shoulder. Not sure what kind at this stage.


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 Da Boss wrote:
Oh, I wasn't aiming that at you at all Azazelx. There's been a few posts tending that way before yours that I was thinking of.
Sorry for the confusion.

No worries, mate.

 Jihadin wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:
You can legally obtain shotguns, rifles and pistols within certain parameters. Gun laws also vary from state to state, and illegal guns aren't incredibly hard to come by if you have any kind of criminal connections.

We have pretty tight gun control, but it's not a blanket "all guns are illegal" as the US media seems to like to report. It's just a far cry from being able to walk into a shop randomly off the street one day and buy one like you would a fishing rod or a hat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Police Commissioner has said that they heard shots inside which prompted their immediate action.

Thanks Az for the clarification
Going to go out on the limb and say the he executed two which sounds right with the time frame on the first shot follow b the second shot and recieving the "go" command. Third shot nail the first stacker though the door (pellet) in the face. Follow by the hail of automatic fire.

No intel to be gained being he "Lone Wolf" it. I saw that mention somewhere on here to take him alive for intel.

Regarding the intel thing, it was in response to someone asking what possible reason could the Police have for taking him alive. At the time, I don't think it had yet been established that he was a Lone Wolf.

Regarding the intel thing, it was in response to someone asking what possible reason could the Police have for taking him alive. At the time, I don't think it had yet been established that he was a Lone Wolf.

Taking him alive would of been preferable as justice might of been served, but now he has two dead people on his hands and will rot in hell or the Muslim equalivent of it, for taking two people with him.

 Orlanth wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:
Am I the only guy who thinks most of the injured was due to the derpy rambo approach of the security forces?

I think they handled it reasonably well. Derpy, no, they got the perp and freed the hostages. Nobody can truly guarantee he won't get a pop off though.
Nevertheless I am surprised the police handled it, I thought they would have left a job like this to SASR.

I meant friendly fire.

I saw the video footage where they started spraying gunfire from OUTSIDE the cafe, through the windows into the area for almost 30 seonds straight by multiple guys. At that moment I think it would have been a very bad idea to be a hostage inside the cafe. So I wondered whether the multiple injured was from bullets ricocheting off walls and hitting the hostages etc.

But yeah, I have no idea how the situation could have been done better just wondering.

 Asherian Command wrote:

Regarding the intel thing, it was in response to someone asking what possible reason could the Police have for taking him alive. At the time, I don't think it had yet been established that he was a Lone Wolf.

Taking him alive would of been preferable as justice might of been served, but now he has two dead people on his hands and will rot in hell or the Muslim equalivent of it, for taking two people with him.

That depends one's perspective of the Koran...

I'm sure he thought he'd go to paradise.

Heaven or not, weapons are quite easy to get even if it's not the USA. You steal them from someone who has them. Or you buy them from some shady guy who knows you deal in drugs. And he probably stole them too - the more legal guns there are the more of them will get stolen and end up in the hands of criminals.

Not to mention the huge amount of unlicensed "spoils of war" guns you'll find in the homes of WW2 veterans...

 Azazelx wrote:
You can legally obtain shotguns, rifles and pistols within certain parameters. Gun laws also vary from state to state, and illegal guns aren't incredibly hard to come by if you have any kind of criminal connections.

We have pretty tight gun control, but it's not a blanket "all guns are illegal" as the US media seems to like to report. It's just a far cry from being able to walk into a shop randomly off the street one day and buy one like you would a fishing rod or a hat.


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Police Commissioner has said that they heard shots inside which prompted their immediate action.

Perhaps

It does seem odd however, given the strict gun laws in the AU, that a man with multiple felony charges and harrassment charges was able to get ahold of a shotgun.

Also....this guy was obviously a scumbag, why was he never deported back to hajistan

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

Regarding the intel thing, it was in response to someone asking what possible reason could the Police have for taking him alive. At the time, I don't think it had yet been established that he was a Lone Wolf.

Taking him alive would of been preferable as justice might of been served, but now he has two dead people on his hands and will rot in hell or the Muslim equalivent of it, for taking two people with him.

That depends one's perspective of the Koran...

I'm sure he thought he'd go to paradise.

true, but I am pretty sure in my book and many others he bought ticket for the dark below.

 Sir Arun wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:
Am I the only guy who thinks most of the injured was due to the derpy rambo approach of the security forces?

I think they handled it reasonably well. Derpy, no, they got the perp and freed the hostages. Nobody can truly guarantee he won't get a pop off though.
Nevertheless I am surprised the police handled it, I thought they would have left a job like this to SASR.

I meant friendly fire.

I saw the video footage where they started spraying gunfire from OUTSIDE the cafe, through the windows into the area for almost 30 seonds straight by multiple guys. At that moment I think it would have been a very bad idea to be a hostage inside the cafe. So I wondered whether the multiple injured was from bullets ricocheting off walls and hitting the hostages etc.

But yeah, I have no idea how the situation could have been done better just wondering.

You also have no idea what was going on inside the cafe. It's easy to say, from someone watching a limited external view video, that they weren't smart about it. Intel on the ground, in the cafe, might have told them otherwise.

As said, the TAG-East teams are 4RAR commandos, not police. They do know what they're doing.

I'm glad they go the fether, and my support goes out to all affected by the crisis. Your friends across the Tasman stand by all Australians.

Storming a building with hostages is a messy business at the best of times, and it sounds like the guy started shooting before the Police moved in. I'm glad they took the guy down before anyone else got killed.

You also have no idea what was going on inside the cafe. It's easy to say, from someone watching a limited external view video, that they weren't smart about it. Intel on the ground, in the cafe, might have told them otherwise.

As said, the TAG-East teams are 4RAR commandos, not police. They do know what they're doing.

Yeah when I saw that. I knew that this was going to be handled well.

These aren't regular police forces. They are actual pros.

Ahh... what a gakky end. I genuinely thought everyone would get out alive.

Wish they executed this POS when it first started

 mitch_rifle wrote:
Wish they executed this POS when it first started

You need to be a pretty good shot to get him though.