Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Plasma Guns are too unstable to be a transports main armament

Las/plas Razorback?

the las/plas razorback is notable as being described as essentially an early model thats actually fallen out of favor. so that might be why

 Wyzilla wrote:
Never understood Storm Bolters. If Space Marines wanted a bolter weapon with greater punch for their Terminators, then just make a bolter with a feed system like a P90.

You dont "just invent" things in 40k...
Also, a different feed system does not necessarily give you a "greater punch", and some technologies are simply not combinable (or do you know how the locking mechanism works in bolters?)

 Keep wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Never understood Storm Bolters. If Space Marines wanted a bolter weapon with greater punch for their Terminators, then just make a bolter with a feed system like a P90.

You dont "just invent" things in 40k...

Over a period of ten thousand years, the same amount of time in which modern humanity went from freezing our asses off in caves to walking on the moon, I would expect somebody in a population numbering in the quadrillions on a million worlds to have developed and tested new forms of bolters. Which isn't even that exceptional, considering some people run around with bullpup bolters like Azrael, or the Salamanders who make their own weapons.

making a different case around a mechanism isnt the same as completely redesigning a mechanism. Even some dudes from alqaida made a bullpup version out of an ordinary AK.

And no 40k is not known for great or even groundbreaking inventions. Guess why STC's are so important.

 Keep wrote:
making a different case around a mechanism isnt the same as completely redesigning a mechanism. Even some dudes from alqaida made a bullpup version out of an ordinary AK.

And no 40k is not known for great or even groundbreaking inventions. Guess why STC's are so important.

And unless they're regressed to the point where literally every single person with tools is mentally slowed (which they clearly are not given the computational power of machine spirits the admech uses), it's physically impossible for nobody having expanded the range of bolters available in the course of ten thousand years. Especially when all it takes is a bored machinist with time to kill. Plus somebody else could have also just slapped an autocannon on the rifle and everything would work just fine, and it'd be a whole hell of a lot more reliable then a Storm Bolter. Or any other twin-feed weapon with multiple barrels that do not cycle.

Well i challenge you to make your computer calculate a weapon design. Not even with a super computer would that be possible.
Innovation is looked down upon in 40k. Or why do you think are the IA tank designs so extremely backwards? No 40k IoM is not a faction where people "just invent" radically new stuff. If you want that, look for TAU or eldar, but not IoM.
If it's so easy, show us how the bolter works internally. Then make a better design. I'm sure you have tools...

And what tells you that stormbolters are not reliable? Boardgame rules? You know that this is not an accurate depiction of fluff?

Thats not true at all. The Imperium does innovate but it is a slow process. You have to show your designs to a bunch of tech priests and have them test it to see if its any good. This process can take decades if not centuries.

What the Imperium hates is unauthorized innovation. They do not want your average Joe Schmoe to fiddle around with his power generator in case his modifications take out an entire city block.

 Wyzilla wrote:
And unless they're regressed to the point where literally every single person with tools is mentally slowed (which they clearly are not given the computational power of machine spirits the admech uses), it's physically impossible for nobody having expanded the range of bolters available in the course of ten thousand years. Especially when all it takes is a bored machinist with time to kill. Plus somebody else could have also just slapped an autocannon on the rifle and everything would work just fine, and it'd be a whole hell of a lot more reliable then a Storm Bolter. Or any other twin-feed weapon with multiple barrels that do not cycle.

It's not about ability, it's about religious stupidity. It doesn't matter if you have the ability to tinker with a bolter and improve it, if you do and get caught you're going to be executed for heresy.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
And unless they're regressed to the point where literally every single person with tools is mentally slowed (which they clearly are not given the computational power of machine spirits the admech uses), it's physically impossible for nobody having expanded the range of bolters available in the course of ten thousand years. Especially when all it takes is a bored machinist with time to kill. Plus somebody else could have also just slapped an autocannon on the rifle and everything would work just fine, and it'd be a whole hell of a lot more reliable then a Storm Bolter. Or any other twin-feed weapon with multiple barrels that do not cycle.

It's not about ability, it's about religious stupidity. It doesn't matter if you have the ability to tinker with a bolter and improve it, if you do and get caught you're going to be executed for heresy.

And yet I cannot think of a single example demonstrating that. The Imperium is a federation of states, with planets varying wildly in nature and laws. On one Hive World people may be lobotomized and turned into servitors for j-walking, while on another the planet may be ruled by a criminal lord with piracy being both fair and legal.

It is downright impossible for somebody not to have made an absurd amount of bolter variations in the period of ten thousand years when this is the same universe where people can get weapons with microscopic guts with enough power to blow a significant hole in somebody. Especially when there's Chapters of Space Marines such as the Salamanders who build their weapons from scratch, and bolters are an incredibly simple weapon design when you don't add the autosenses that link up with the helm of whoever's using one. Without the autosenses, Bolters are just fancy .75 caliber assault rifles with esoteric ammunition. Not to mention there already is an incredibly large array of variants, and artificer bolters tailored to their owner also exist. A compact bullpup deisgn like the P90 certainly exists, and would be a far more valuable alternative to the storm bolter. Hell, so would linking up multilasers to the fusion generator in Indomitus armor that would provide infinite ammunition for the Veteran wielding the weapon.

i swear go gawd, give anything the serpent shield upgrade and the troop transport in to a 60" S6 ignores your cover d6 hits! for 15 fething flashlights!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Keep wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Never understood Storm Bolters. If Space Marines wanted a bolter weapon with greater punch for their Terminators, then just make a bolter with a feed system like a P90.

You dont "just invent" things in 40k...
Also, a different feed system does not necessarily give you a "greater punch", and some technologies are simply not combinable (or do you know how the locking mechanism works in bolters?)

Orks are more innovative.

In the fluff, storm bolters have always been unreliable and prone to jamming. They just... got rid of it in crunch when they moved to 3rd edition and it never came back, for some reason.

I mean, in Faith and Fire the Celestians even joke about it.

"If only I had a storm bolter!"

"Yeah, you could give it to them and have it do our jobs for us!"