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Gamgee wrote: You don't seem to get how this providing evidence thing works. SO clearly I win. I'm not wasting any more of my time with you. I cited an actual source. You've barked like some squawking kid who had his testicles stepped on. So I'm out. If and when someone shows up to have an actual debate instead of a pissing contest I'll come back.
Concession accepted.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
Gamgee wrote: 6 months to build a single ISD II from start to finish in a dry dock. The space docks in lore are represented as building dozens of ISD II's at any given time at a single dock area. There are countless untold planets given to producing ISD II's.
Where as the Imperium of man can never build anything new except in a hundred years or more.
So not only can the ISD II's cross the galaxy in days or weeks at most but they can be built and replenished at an astonishing rate. Not to mention they out power any ship the Imperium could hope to send against them.
I won't even waste my time getting into the various super ships and weapons Emperor Palpatine was working on. He was even working on a vessel so large it would be the spearhead of a fleet to conquer another galaxy.
The ENTIRE 40k galaxy is fethed.
You really should make a better attempt at trolling. You're blatantly obvious.
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
Verviedi wrote: 40k... No... The fething TAU godstomp the entire SW Galaxy (assuming original series)
Tau? LoL, Just gimme a random IG regiment and I take out the Republic in couple of Months
Harldly. the Old Sith Empire, Mandalorians, Galactic Empire, and Fel Empire could all solo the entire IoM by themselves.
The Tau would be slaughtered in a fight with any faction star wars presents.
If people want to claim EU doesn't count then you cannot claim that the exaggerated power levels of the 40k levels exist considering 40k doesn't even have a 'canon'.
In short. No gimping.
You seem to not understand the difference in firepower between the IOM and the Galactic Empire.
Powered up turbolaser shots by the ICS unleash 200 gigatons per shot. This level of firepower in 40K is not only common, but child's play. With 40k, firepower on ships commonly stretches into the terratons, IE "what continent" levels of firepower. The Imperium of Mankind doesn't NEED Exterminatus weaponry or a Death Star to blow up a planet. They can and have destroyed worlds by simply dumping lance batteries into the planet to completely annihilate the world and scatter its remnants across several hundred lightyears in the course of merely ten thousand years. In the Night Lords books, Talos and friends discover a piece of Nostramo at LEAST one sector away from the original location of Nostramo. This would mean that the asteroid was accelerated to near the speed of light when Nostramo was destroyed in order to end up over two hundred lightyears away from its original location, and that's being generous. For all we know it could have been hundreds.
40K utterly annihilates Star Wars so hard it isn't even funny. Monsters like fully formed C'tan, the Chaos Gods lacking restriant, or Tyranids declaring a full strength invasion would simply wipe their galaxy off the map. The 40k universe united only results in the complete destruction of the Galaxy of far, far away. Even the fricken' Tau could do a number on Star Wars, and they're an utterly pathetic minor xenos race.
( Im pretty sure the jokero could do it by hemselves , anyways your right the planet caliban was literally torn apart by lance blasts from imperial ships, not to mention the warhammer godsplitter was rumored to have destroyed planets with one strike.)
Kain wrote: "All of star wars" Means "The movies, The Clone Wars Cartoon, the current Marvel Comic, and Rebels" right now if you're going to play that game.
Similarly, if we play that game, we also play with the War in Heaven and the Dark Age of Technology.
How do you figure? Either we stick to the canon, in which case SW is stuck using the movies, clone war cartoon and current marvel comic (as well as rebels) and Warhammer is stuck with nothing, or we throw canon out the window, and Star Wars (and 40K) gets all the toys, including the suncrusher, the galaxy gun, the yuuzhan vong (though I have no idea why anyone would want them).
However, we still have no idea how much power Warhammer 40K weapons put out.
Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia
Kain wrote: "All of star wars" Means "The movies, The Clone Wars Cartoon, the current Marvel Comic, and Rebels" right now if you're going to play that game.
Similarly, if we play that game, we also play with the War in Heaven and the Dark Age of Technology.
How do you figure? Either we stick to the canon, in which case SW is stuck using the movies, clone war cartoon and current marvel comic (as well as rebels) and Warhammer is stuck with nothing, or we throw canon out the window, and Star Wars (and 40K) gets all the toys, including the suncrusher, the galaxy gun, the yuuzhan vong (though I have no idea why anyone would want them).
However, we still have no idea how much power Warhammer 40K weapons put out.
( Yes but that would mean we get the god emporer of mankind wouldnt it. I do however understand where your coming from using starwars films etc as cannon,but that also means dawn of war games are cannon.)
Kain wrote: "All of star wars" Means "The movies, The Clone Wars Cartoon, the current Marvel Comic, and Rebels" right now if you're going to play that game.
Similarly, if we play that game, we also play with the War in Heaven and the Dark Age of Technology.
How do you figure? Either we stick to the canon, in which case SW is stuck using the movies, clone war cartoon and current marvel comic (as well as rebels) and Warhammer is stuck with nothing, or we throw canon out the window, and Star Wars (and 40K) gets all the toys, including the suncrusher, the galaxy gun, the yuuzhan vong (though I have no idea why anyone would want them).
However, we still have no idea how much power Warhammer 40K weapons put out.
Warhammer is not stuck with nothing. GW's policy is that everything is valid, and that's where their care ends. Star Wars meanwhile has always had a rigid canon formula. Even under the old system the ICS was not valid, not any of the high calcs. Books like the ICS under the old canon were over-ruled by the movies and clone wars cartoon (G and T canon levels respectively). However as 200 gigatons are nothing being thrown around either in the movies or the clone wars show, and only occasionally popping up in other books, C canon. And even that was rare.
40K meanwhile has extremely clear levels of firepower from the destruction of Nostramo, where a fleet of ships annihilated a planet with a crust made of solid adamantium, with the resulting explosion being so potent that pieces of the planet ended up in neighboring sectors of space in a mere ten thousand years. That is extremely crazy.
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
The OP, in response to my question, stated that this bit of mental masturbation takes place during the "current" era for each setting. So we have 13th Black Crusade 40K vs Post-Vong Invasion SW.
.... SW is right fethed sideways and backwards.
I mean, I like SW, a lot. It's one of my favorite settings for adventuring in... but even if you gave them 10x the number of Jedi as have ever been in the setting, they're fethed.
That's the point of 40K. It's OTT. It's designed to be OTT. It is, in fact, designed to be ridiculouslyOTT when compared to every other sci-fi and fantasy setting that was popularly known in the late 1980s... and that definitely included Star Wars!
SW: We built 3 million Clones to fight the Clone Wars!
40K: We suffered 3 million deaths establishing a beach-head... and then the rest of the military arrived.
It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised.
Wyzilla wrote: GW's policy is that everything is valid, and that's where their care ends.
I'm curious if you have a quote for that. The only thing I can find regarding 40K canon is on 1d4chan, which states
Games Workshop's official stance is that all of the fluff is told by an unreliable narrator, and is therefore true and false at the same time. This is so they can sell you multiple stories and products without having to wade through 25 years worth of bs. This frustrates and annoys fa/tg/uys, who pull a fit every time their comic book collection gets even slightly out of order.
However, it's pretty common practice in most large franchises. This stance actually allows individuals to have their own 'personal canon', but of course, people don't see it that way and instead want their galaxy sweeping, massively scaled space opera to be detailed right down to how many pubic hairs Roboute Guilliman has.
Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 have continuity and consistency, but nothing can be truly described as canon, as the powers that be never set anything in stone. Or to put it another way, Space Marines look a certain way and behave along certain guidelines, but exact details change depending on who is telling the story. On the other hand, some authors have truly taken the piss with this policy, such as Captain C.S. MULTI-LAZOR.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/06/11 22:22:16
Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia
Thanks. For what its worth, I do believe that 40K would win, as it is intended to be completely over the top, however, I also believe that 40K is one of the very few universes, that SW would struggle with.
Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia
You gotta love how the SW guys begin to grasp at straws, pulling out all manner of 1-off, totally obscure super weapons that most of which are no longer considered valid or canon.
One thing I like to point out. Take a picture (to scale) of a Star Destroyer and an Imperial Retribution Class Battleship (as they are equivalent ships in their role). Look at the giant holes in the side of the Retribution. Those are Macro Cannons. Each of those fires a shell that is that wide (and about as long as a fairly large building). Now compare the Macro Cannons to the Star Destroyer.... A Retribution wouldn't even need a full broadside to tear a star destroyer in half. That and there are "light" cruisers and smaller craft with equally as large weapons on board. This is not even counting the HUGE Lance batteries mounted dorsally.
I like finding pictures that have all the ships to scale side by side. You can clearly see the majority of the weapons mounted on 40k ships due to their incredible SIZE. You can't actually see the SW ships weapons they are so small. Hell the Nova Cannon mounted under the prow of some Imperial ships is longer than some of the SW ships.
Not to mention the sheer endless numbers of Guard, Orks, Tyranids, The power of Chaos, The Eldar, Necrons, The God Emperor of Mankind, The Chaos Gods themselves, The Old Ones, Dark Age of Technology tech and the list goes on.
Oh we made 3 million clone troopers!
That's Tuesdays losses.... Send the Next wave....
On the Ground, In Space, Or even in whatever plane the gods exist on. 40k wins.
It will be an epic slugfest of apocalyptic proportions (another day at the office for 40k, a horror show for SW) but 40k will come out on top.
Regiment: 91st Schrott Experimental Regiment
Regiment Planet: Schrott Specialization: Salvaged, Heavily Modified, and/or Experimental Mechanized Units. "SIR! Are you sure this will work!?"
"I HAVE NO IDEA, PULL THE TRIGGER!!!" 91st comms chatter.
Ep VII is set AFTER the chronological events of those books and Chewie is STILL ALIVE. Ergo, it didn't happen.
Ep 7 hasn't happened yet and, in actuality, seems to place the SW galaxy in an even worse-off position, as Skywalker has not (so far as we know yet) re-established the Jedi Order, and the Galactic Republic still seems to be flailing about ineffectually (so is basically the same as it's always been).
Look, for all its size and population, the Galactic Republic got its ass kicked by a bunch of pirates from a tiny-ass sector of space until one guy said "Feth that!" and went and took the fight to the pirates.
That was, of course, Revan's opening move in what would become the Jedi Civil War. As a result of his actions, of course, the Jedi Order is all but wiped out, the Republic brought to the brink of destruction (again) and a major ecumenopolis blasted to slag by a single starship. Worse, this paves the way for Emperor Vitiate to become, basically, the embodiment of the Dark Side and go roaming about the galaxy, eating planets as strikes his fancy. It also leads to a series of wars that sees Coruscant raided, the Jedi Temple destroyed, the Order's ranks infiltrated by agents of the Sith (some of whom come to sit on the Council, ffs!) and billions of lives lost in a galaxy-spanning conflict.
In other words, Tuesday night for the Imperium.
It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised.
Starwars loses due to being unable to fight off an invasion.
40k is epic in scale. There weapons are massive and can splinter entire moons and ships that are created from adamantium or some other mythical metal.
Often this discussion comes up and most times unless this is brought up on a starwars fanwebsite 40k Wins.
I remember as a joke I made a halo vs 40k thread. And clearly people took it very seriously and saw that 40k would lose because space marines are not trained like spartans. (Yet they were, never mind)
40k Wins by landslide. There is no way to defeat a science fiction universe that has lost itself in its grim darkness and being comic bookish. Unless you bring up the culture and screw those books and the creator as those stories are boring and the race that is in it are literally gods.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
40k is epic in scale. There weapons are massive and can splinter entire moons and ships that are created from adamantium or some other mythical metal.
Often this discussion comes up and most times unless this is brought up on a starwars fanwebsite 40k Wins.
I remember as a joke I made a halo vs 40k thread. And clearly people took it very seriously and saw that 40k would lose because space marines are not trained like spartans. (Yet they were, never mind)
40k Wins by landslide. There is no way to defeat a science fiction universe that has lost itself in its grim darkness and being comic bookish. Unless you bring up the culture and screw those books and the creator as those stories are boring and the race that is in it are literally gods.
Wasnt the ONLY one that could possible stand was the marvel universe which also literally was full of gods?
Pretty sure the HHGttG setting could win, too, simply because of the Improbability Drive.
It's like I said earlier, I like Star Wars, a lot, but there is simply no competition here against the 40k universe. Even if the various factions of 40k don't work together and all the SW factions do, it's a no-brainer. Between Chaos, the Imperium, the Necrons and the Tyranid, the SW galaxy is fethed. They could divide it into four sections and each take one, and that would be that. The SW universe simply lacks the numbers and the production rate to counter the overwhelming firepower that 40k presents. What is a rare/unique and *huge* starship in SW is pretty much your run-of-the-mill battleship in 40k.
The greatest combatants in SW have no guaranteed defense against the common weapon of 40k's signature factions (sorry, a lightsaber cannot parry a Gauss Flayer, or a bolter for very long). SW has almost no answer for Titans. They definitely don't have an answer for Daemons.
It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised.
Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia
In terms of high powered SciFi, Galactic Civilizations can probably take home the gold with using the materials for literal black holes as armor and infantry weapons and instant matter to energy beams. But Gal Civ is incredibly silly and makes no pretensions at being anything other than silly.
Strike legion probably can also win with shenanigans like Pistols that can provide orbital bombardment and planet busting hand grenades. But that's also a pretty flatly ridiculous universe (it has talking space squirrels for one thing) and one that parodies 40k pretty heavily at that (the most iconic bad guys are a human dominated Imperium with an immortal psychic Empress).
In more serious works there's the culture with it's "zip around at superluminal velocities firing blasts that make supernovas seem like firecrackers" hilarity (though given how libertine and hedonistic it is it might just be Slaanesh fodder), and the Xeeleeverse with its time travel and starbursting handguns.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/11 23:50:58
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
40k is epic in scale. There weapons are massive and can splinter entire moons and ships that are created from adamantium or some other mythical metal.
Often this discussion comes up and most times unless this is brought up on a starwars fanwebsite 40k Wins.
I remember as a joke I made a halo vs 40k thread. And clearly people took it very seriously and saw that 40k would lose because space marines are not trained like spartans. (Yet they were, never mind)
40k Wins by landslide. There is no way to defeat a science fiction universe that has lost itself in its grim darkness and being comic bookish. Unless you bring up the culture and screw those books and the creator as those stories are boring and the race that is in it are literally gods.
Wasnt the ONLY one that could possible stand was the marvel universe which also literally was full of gods?
No wonder why I don't like universes with literal gods who can destroy all life and have no limit to their powers. And are just there to be there and they can literally do anything. Because there is no reason to make that universe at all interesting.
Marvel was also written a bit better than say the Culture books. As it is just what I would call science spank fiction. There is no reason to read it other than its interesting technologies the races have and then there is no counter for it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/12 01:06:52
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
In terms of universes 40k would most likely not like to engage in a ground war with;
Metal Gear.
That Metal Gear Ray weighs over five hundred tons and Raiden proceeds to play hop skotch on a literal stream of maverick missiles. And then he gets a massive upgrade to his Cyborg body. How much stronger does he get?
It's insane and I absolutely love it.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
Psienesis wrote: Of course they can. So long as a sentient creature with the belief that they exist goes somewhere so, too, does the Warp go with them.
Um I don't think that's correct. If that were true than every species in 40k with a pantheon would literally have their own warp gods as well. As well as embodiments of ideals such as the sith and jedi( rule of emotions vs strict control over onesconscious))
Space Marines: Jacks of all trades yet masters of GRAV CANNONS!!!.
My Star Wars Imperial Codex Project: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/641831.page It has 7 HQs, 2 Troop types with Dedicated Transports, 5 Elite units, 5 Fast Attack units, 6 Heavy Support units, 2 Formations with unique units not in the rest of the codex, and 2 LOW choices.
‘I do not care who knows the truth now, tomorrow, or in ten thousand years. Loyalty is its own reward.’ -Lion El' Jonson
Here's the thing I think of, biggest gun (That' I'm aware of, as I've only heard of the Sun Crusher and haven't read a book or actually SEEN it...) is the Death Star in Star Wars
On 40k's side...there is a metric feth ton of planet busters, but excluding the Blackstone Fortress for a sec, I'd have to point out Abaddon's Planet Killer.
Now the Death Star, is point at something, charge up, fire, something explodes.
The Planet Killer on the other hand fires a ship, cuts it in half, hits the next ship cuts it in half, and THEN hits a planet and tears it's core out in a massive explosion.
Plus the Planet Killer is a like a ballerina compared to the Death Star.
Not to mention the SIZE of just the Imperium's ship alone is redonkulessly big compared to the Star Wars ships.
Star Wars can hold it's own, but I think their universe would burn in the flames of war just like every other faction.
That said on the side of HEROES I think most the Jedi and Sith can beat most of the characters in 40k. I'll take Luke Skywalker over Draigo, and though there is temptation I'd take Vader over Abby.
My beloved 40K armies:
Children of Stirba Order of Saint Pan Thera
Psienesis wrote: Of course they can. So long as a sentient creature with the belief that they exist goes somewhere so, too, does the Warp go with them.
Um I don't think that's correct. If that were true than every species in 40k with a pantheon would literally have their own warp gods as well. As well as embodiments of ideals such as the sith and jedi( rule of emotions vs strict control over onesconscious))
You are correct, technically everyone in 40k has their own pantheon. Although this pantheons are part of the larger Chaos gods (example, Khaine is part of Khorne).
The outcome would be simple.
Both universes would be utterly annihilated by a distortion in space-time continuum caused by the impossibility of two seperate dimensions with completely different and incompatible realities colliding.
Asherian Command wrote: Unless you bring up the culture and screw those books and the creator as those stories are boring and the race that is in it are literally gods.
You officially have no taste. The Culture novels are better than 40k's fluff by almost as much of a margin as a Culture civilian transport beats the entire 40k setting.
As for the OP, it really depends on which version of 40k you're using. If it's the version where WWII-level equipment is god-like lost tech then Star Wars wins by an obscene margin. If it's the high-end version then it's pretty close numbers-wise but Star Wars still wins because they aren't a bunch of insane religious zealots who believe that thinking like a reasonable person is heresy.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/12 00:59:28
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
Asherian Command wrote: Unless you bring up the culture and screw those books and the creator as those stories are boring and the race that is in it are literally gods.
You officially have no taste. The Culture novels are better than 40k's fluff by almost as much of a margin as a Culture civilian transport beats the entire 40k setting.
As for the OP, it really depends on which version of 40k you're using. If it's the version where WWII-level equipment is god-like lost tech then Star Wars wins by an obscene margin. If it's the high-end version then it's pretty close numbers-wise but Star Wars still wins because they aren't a bunch of insane religious zealots who believe that thinking like a reasonable person is heresy.
Umm...
I think you missed the part where he said all of the 40k universe. All of it. Necrons, Eldar, Tau, Space Marines, Tyranids, Orks.
There is no way that a bunch of panzies with energy swords can beat a tyranid hive fleet. Hell the Necrons would destroy everything they had.
The Imperium would just ransack each planet and bombard it.
See Peregrine this is where most people just look at that though and think nope. That isn't 40k. You keep coming up with this bogus that there is ww2 equipment in the 40k arsenal when they aren't. You keep bringing that argument up but every-time people will shut you down on that.
Because you are literally just speaking out of your butt.
Also the bit about the culture. It is a stupid series of books to me. And it doesn't fit what I would call good science fiction. I don't particular enjoy science fiction or fiction for that matter where the main characters have access to incredibly powerful weaponry that only gods can use. If a character has the power to literally think something into existance there is no conflict there is no interest, there is nothing that ties me to those characters. Hence why I hate any book like that.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/12 01:15:03
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
, anyways your right the planet caliban was literally torn apart by lance blasts from imperial ships, not to mention the warhammer godsplitter was rumored to have destroyed planets with one strike.)
Children of Stirba 
Order of Saint Pan Thera 
