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6 months to build a single ISD II from start to finish in a dry dock. The space docks in lore are represented as building dozens of ISD II's at any given time at a single dock area. There are countless untold planets given to producing ISD II's.
Where as the Imperium of man can never build anything new except in a hundred years or more.
So not only can the ISD II's cross the galaxy in days or weeks at most but they can be built and replenished at an astonishing rate. Not to mention they out power any ship the Imperium could hope to send against them.
I won't even waste my time getting into the various super ships and weapons Emperor Palpatine was working on. He was even working on a vessel so large it would be the spearhead of a fleet to conquer another galaxy.
The ENTIRE 40k galaxy is fethed.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/11 21:10:14
Gamgee wrote: 6 months to build a single ISD II from start to finish in a dry dock. The space docks in lore are represented as building dozens of ISD II's at any given time at a single dock area. There are countless untold planets given to producing ISD II's.
Where as the Imperium of man can never build anything new except in a hundred years or more.
So not only can the ISD II's cross the galaxy in days or weeks at most but they can be built and replenished at an astonishing rate. Not to mention they out power any ship the Imperium could hope to send against them.
I won't even waste my time getting into the various super ships and weapons Emperor Palpatine was working on. He was even working on a vessel so large it would be the spearhead of a fleet to conquer another galaxy.
The ENTIRE 40k galaxy is fethed.
Browsing spacebattles, the consensus there is that the Necrons run over Star Wars like a speed bump with about the same speed Halo's Forerunners would (which is; "The nations of Star Wars die as fast as the Necrons can reach them).
Also, Star Wars is a libertine society with permissive attitudes towards freedom of religion and action. Chaos loves these kinds of societies and tends to tear them down very quickly when they find that their souls are tasty enough to be worth eating.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/11 21:15:10
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
Ratius wrote: What about the Necron World Engine? That was pretty hardcore.
Starforge was gaking out around 6+ Sith Interdictor Cruisers in the KOTOR timeline in a few minutes. So triple that for the ISD II's because they are bigger ships from a more modern time of SW. I'm talking fully loaded and equipped cruisers to.
Six Star Destroyers II in about 10 minutes. We'll say. Since they are about triple the size of the mentioned cruisers.
That's 60 ISD II's in a minute. 3600 ISD II's in an hour. 86400 in a day. 604800 in a week. 2419200 in a month. 14515200 in half a year. 29,030,400 in a year. It could also at the same time keep pace with producing droids internally to be used as crew for these vessels. Each one has 20 AT-AT and 72 Tie Fighters. The Emperor was known to love blasting planets to glass if they didn't fall in line.
The Imperium can't possibly hope to match that kind of output. It simply can't. The entire 40k universe. Necrons included would be hard pressed to match its output.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/11 21:29:52
Ratius wrote: What about the Necron World Engine? That was pretty hardcore.
Starforge was gaking out around 6+ Sith Interdictor Cruisers in the KOTOR timeline in a few minutes. So triple that for the ISD II's because they are bigger ships from a more modern time of SW. I'm talking fully loaded and equipped cruisers to.
So a bunch of warships with the demonstrated firepower of WW2 era battleships you mean? Because every visually depicted figure of firepower puts it at "world war two battleships in space".
Similarly, Star Wars is incredibly stagnant in technology. There has been precious little concrete improvement in technology from the Old Republic era to the Original trilogy era, with all advancements being incremental at best and nothing revolutionary being discovered.
Given what is actually shown and not what the ICS spanks to, the United Necrons bulldoze through the entire galaxy and never even notice it.
The War in Heaven era Necrons don't even slow down appreciably as they tear apart whole solar systems with casual ease and deploy weapons that can shake the very universe itself to its core.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
The forces in the star wars universe enjoy superior technology. However those in 40k have more brute force.
It's a similar conclusion when you compare the forces of the Imperium to the Tau or Eldar. Both alien races enjoy superior targeting systems, mobility, stealth systems and firepower. The imperium evens up their shortfallings with crude but effective approaches like metres of armour plating and brutal massed firepower. In essence its brute force vs finesse.
thegreatchimp wrote: The forces in the star wars universe enjoy superior technology. However those in 40k have more brute force.
It's a similar conclusion when you compare the forces of the Imperium to the Tau or Eldar. Both alien races enjoy superior targeting systems, mobility, stealth systems and firepower. The imperium evens up their shortfallings with crude but effective approaches like metres of armour plating and brutal massed firepower. In essence its brute force vs finesse.
With the presence of the Necrons, Eldar, Dark age of Technology humanity and so on, I doubt star wars has any advantage in technology.
The Necrons can easily match the technology of the Celestials in Star Wars with things like the Celestial Orrery or fething Time Travel. And the Celestials are like; unknowable godlike figures in Star Wars whose motives and methods no one in the Star Wars setting can even comprehend.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/11 21:22:29
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
Ratius wrote: What about the Necron World Engine? That was pretty hardcore.
Starforge was gaking out around 6+ Sith Interdictor Cruisers in the KOTOR timeline in a few minutes. So triple that for the ISD II's because they are bigger ships from a more modern time of SW. I'm talking fully loaded and equipped cruisers to.
Yes but most battle is fough on ground, and once the imperiel guard land on an planet they never let go unless theres something on the planet that is causing it to litrally tear apart.
Also I'm going to go ahead and label Gamgee a coward until he stops dodging my points and answers them.
I'm calling you out broski.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
Bobthehero wrote: Star Wars can blow up solar systems with a single fighter-sized ship that's tougher than a planet, make that of what you will.
What weapon is this?
The Suncrusher. Its armour survived a glancing blow from a Death Star laser, and more tellingly allowed it to survive using its weapon: the ability to force nearby stars to instantly go supernova.
It was a one-of-a-kind weapon though - Seeing as 'crons can mass produce them, well...
"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad.
Bobthehero wrote: Star Wars can blow up solar systems with a single fighter-sized ship that's tougher than a planet, make that of what you will.
What weapon is this?
The Suncrusher. Its armour survived a glancing blow from a Death Star laser, and more tellingly allowed it to survive using its weapon: the ability to force nearby stars to instantly go supernova.
It was a one-of-a-kind weapon though - Seeing as 'crons can mass produce them, well...
It was also made out of literally the rarest materials in the galaxy FFA and was considered freakishly expensive to the point of being folly to try to make again.
(It was also emblematic of all the worst of the EU; people trying to one up the movies with increasingly stupid and contrived superweapons and characters)
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad.
It gets to the point of "why the feth did the Empire even bother with the death star when they have all this nonsensical insanity?" It really just felt like the whole post-ROTJ EU was dedicated to making all the effort expended in the OT feel like a huge waste of time. "Yay we beat the empire, except no the war's just really beginning!" Among a huge conga-line of ridiculous things that makes me glad that Disney flushed the whole thing down the drain.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
Kain wrote: Also I'm going to go ahead and label Gamgee a coward until he stops dodging my points and answers them.
I'm calling you out broski.
You have to provide a source for me to refute. That's how it works. Simply making a point is just a pissing contest. No my dick is longer say I. No my dick is longer say you. And so on and so forth until someone antes up and starts linking. So sure.
Edit
Or if you would rather I could just call all of your sources non-canon and be done with it. Since GW doesn't have a "canon" either. In the absence of any sort of canon on either side all we can do is go with the numbers we have.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/11 21:35:31
Kain wrote: Also I'm going to go ahead and label Gamgee a coward until he stops dodging my points and answers them.
I'm calling you out broski.
You have to provide a source for me to refute. That's how it works. Simply making a point is just a pissing contest. No my dick is longer say I. No my dick is longer say you. And so on and so forth until someone antes up and starts linking. So sure.
Sooo you get to make a bunch of claims without backing them up and then duck behind a site relying on outdated and invalidated canon, but I have to slog through Micheal Wong's wankery again?
No bro you were making the positive claims that go against Star Wars' current canon.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
Happyjew wrote: You have to remember though, if the fight happens outside the Milky Way, there may not be a Warp for the Warhammer ships to travel through. Since most of the key planets are towards the center of the Star Wars galaxy, anything that cannot travel faster than 1.1c, will be taking 50,000+ years to reach there.
Similarly, Star Wars ships cannot travel without pre-established hyperspace routes (these tend to be thousands of years old) or else they have this habit of bumping into the mass shadow of a black hole or a planet or really anything of substantial size and going kersplat enroute.
It's not that hard. I mean with the exception of one region of space, Star Wars had their galaxy mapped out pretty early on. To determine routes in the Milky Way, it would be a simple matter of launching thousands of hyper-space equipped probes to map the galaxy. Even then, on the off-chance a ship traveling through hyperspace does bounce to close to a super-nova, the safeties kick in and drag the ship out of hyperspace.
Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia
Bobthehero wrote: Star Wars can blow up solar systems with a single fighter-sized ship that's tougher than a planet, make that of what you will.
What weapon is this?
The Suncrusher. Its armour survived a glancing blow from a Death Star laser, and more tellingly allowed it to survive using its weapon: the ability to force nearby stars to instantly go supernova.
It was a one-of-a-kind weapon though - Seeing as 'crons can mass produce them, well...
Oh, that was a space station that fired a torpedo that had the capability of entering hyperspace to traverse the cosmos to the targeted system. Said torpedoes were also heavily-shielded and fast, so once in-system were nigh-unstoppable.
The Sun-Crusher was also devoured by the black holes of the Maw, and so no longer exists.
I was looking for a "fighter-sized ship" with this capability, based on the post mentioning it.
It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised.
Bobthehero wrote: Star Wars can blow up solar systems with a single fighter-sized ship that's tougher than a planet, make that of what you will.
What weapon is this?
The Suncrusher. Its armour survived a glancing blow from a Death Star laser, and more tellingly allowed it to survive using its weapon: the ability to force nearby stars to instantly go supernova.
It was a one-of-a-kind weapon though - Seeing as 'crons can mass produce them, well...
Oh, that was a space station that fired a torpedo that had the capability of entering hyperspace to traverse the cosmos to the targeted system. Said torpedoes were also heavily-shielded and fast, so once in-system were nigh-unstoppable.
The Sun-Crusher was also devoured by the black holes of the Maw, and so no longer exists.
I was looking for a "fighter-sized ship" with this capability, based on the post mentioning it.
You're mixing up your phallic symbols superweapons.
You're describing the galaxy gun (which attacked planets and was shaped like a giant space penis), the suncrusher was fighter sized.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
Kain wrote: Also I'm going to go ahead and label Gamgee a coward until he stops dodging my points and answers them.
I'm calling you out broski.
You have to provide a source for me to refute. That's how it works. Simply making a point is just a pissing contest. No my dick is longer say I. No my dick is longer say you. And so on and so forth until someone antes up and starts linking. So sure.
Sooo you get to make a bunch of claims without backing them up and then duck behind a site relying on outdated and invalidated canon, but I have to slog through Micheal Wong's wankery again?
No bro you were making the positive claims that go against Star Wars' current canon.
So the movies are no longer considered canon? I mean maybe I missed it (on a brief perusal) but it appeared to me that the linked article was using pretty much just the movies.
Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia
Kain wrote: Also I'm going to go ahead and label Gamgee a coward until he stops dodging my points and answers them.
I'm calling you out broski.
You have to provide a source for me to refute. That's how it works. Simply making a point is just a pissing contest. No my dick is longer say I. No my dick is longer say you. And so on and so forth until someone antes up and starts linking. So sure.
Sooo you get to make a bunch of claims without backing them up and then duck behind a site relying on outdated and invalidated canon, but I have to slog through Micheal Wong's wankery again?
No bro you were making the positive claims that go against Star Wars' current canon.
So the movies are no longer considered canon? I mean maybe I missed it (on a brief perusal) but it appeared to me that the linked article was using pretty much just the movies.
Most of its references to star wars industrial capacity (including things like duplicator droids) are based on EU material.
The only solid thing is the Death Star and I'm fairly strongly convinced that's a case of "no sense of scale" rather than any solid indication of industrial capacity.
Particularly as its entirely incongruous with a setting where 3,000,000 unaugmented clones were considered a military worthy of fighting a galactic scale war.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
Kain wrote: Also I'm going to go ahead and label Gamgee a coward until he stops dodging my points and answers them.
I'm calling you out broski.
You have to provide a source for me to refute. That's how it works. Simply making a point is just a pissing contest. No my dick is longer say I. No my dick is longer say you. And so on and so forth until someone antes up and starts linking. So sure.
Sooo you get to make a bunch of claims without backing them up and then duck behind a site relying on outdated and invalidated canon, but I have to slog through Micheal Wong's wankery again?
No bro you were making the positive claims that go against Star Wars' current canon.
So the movies are no longer considered canon? I mean maybe I missed it (on a brief perusal) but it appeared to me that the linked article was using pretty much just the movies.
Most of its references to star wars industrial capacity (including things like duplicator droids) are based on EU material.
The only solid thing is the Death Star and I'm fairly strongly convinced that's a case of "no sense of scale" rather than any solid indication of industrial capacity.
Particularly as its entirely incongruous with a setting where 3,000,000 unaugmented clones were considered a military worthy of fighting a galactic scale war.
The topic says ALL of Star Wars. Not the parts of Star Wars you don't want. So too bad son. Up the ante kid. Your too easy. Sloppy debate work.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/11 21:46:59
Similarly, Wong's calculations draw almost entirely from high end demonstrations of power while ignoring a lot of low ends (such as aforementioned broad sides not being more impressive than what the USS Iowa could pull in Movie VI or Blaster's being less impressive than the AK-74 I was trained with when they shot R2D2) or wishy washily trying to handwave them away before going right back to the spanking without considering the implications it actually has.
If star destroyers had actual gigatons of firepower, then everyone in TCW cartoon would have been ashes from their "Full power!" bombardment on a bunch of droids on land that once again, failed to surpass World war 2 era battleships in firepower.
Kain wrote: Also I'm going to go ahead and label Gamgee a coward until he stops dodging my points and answers them.
I'm calling you out broski.
You have to provide a source for me to refute. That's how it works. Simply making a point is just a pissing contest. No my dick is longer say I. No my dick is longer say you. And so on and so forth until someone antes up and starts linking. So sure.
Sooo you get to make a bunch of claims without backing them up and then duck behind a site relying on outdated and invalidated canon, but I have to slog through Micheal Wong's wankery again?
No bro you were making the positive claims that go against Star Wars' current canon.
So the movies are no longer considered canon? I mean maybe I missed it (on a brief perusal) but it appeared to me that the linked article was using pretty much just the movies.
Most of its references to star wars industrial capacity (including things like duplicator droids) are based on EU material.
The only solid thing is the Death Star and I'm fairly strongly convinced that's a case of "no sense of scale" rather than any solid indication of industrial capacity.
Particularly as its entirely incongruous with a setting where 3,000,000 unaugmented clones were considered a military worthy of fighting a galactic scale war.
The topic says ALL of Star Wars. Not the parts of Star Wars you don't want. So too bad son. Up the ante kid. Your too easy. Sloppy debate work.
"All of star wars" Means "The movies, The Clone Wars Cartoon, the current Marvel Comic, and Rebels" right now if you're going to play that game.
Similarly, if we play that game, we also play with the War in Heaven and the Dark Age of Technology.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/11 21:48:03
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
Kain wrote: Similarly, Wong's calculations draw almost entirely from high end demonstrations of power while ignoring a lot of low ends (such as aforementioned broad sides not being more impressive than what the USS Iowa could pull in Movie VI or Blaster's being less impressive than the AK-74 I was trained with when they shot R2D2) or wishy washily trying to handwave them away before going right back to the spanking without considering the implications it actually has.
If star destroyers had actual gigatons of firepower, then everyone in TCW cartoon would have been ashes from their "Full power!" bombardment on a bunch of droids on land that once again, failed to surpass World war 2 era battleships in firepower.
And nothing you just said refutes my evidence. It's almost like your being some sort of chicken gak coward. Your all bark, and no bite.
Edit
You don't seem to get how this prodivind evidence thing works. SO clearly I win. I'm not wasting any more of my time with you. I cited an actual source. You've barked like some squawking kid who had his testicles stepped on. So I'm out. If and when someone shows up to have an actual debate instead of a pissing contest I'll come back.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/06/11 21:51:15
Kain wrote: Similarly, Wong's calculations draw almost entirely from high end demonstrations of power while ignoring a lot of low ends (such as aforementioned broad sides not being more impressive than what the USS Iowa could pull in Movie VI or Blaster's being less impressive than the AK-74 I was trained with when they shot R2D2) or wishy washily trying to handwave them away before going right back to the spanking without considering the implications it actually has.
If star destroyers had actual gigatons of firepower, then everyone in TCW cartoon would have been ashes from their "Full power!" bombardment on a bunch of droids on land that once again, failed to surpass World war 2 era battleships in firepower.
And nothing you just said refutes my evidence. It's almost like your being some sort of chicken gak coward. Your all bark, and no bite.
Except it does. It shows his methodology for deriving his calculations are at best, deeply flawed and at worst make the story not work, ergo; like in most fictional debates, they are to be discarded whenever firepower is concerned, leaving us with what actually makes the setting work. Which is what we're shown, I.E World war 2 in space.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
Bobthehero wrote: Star Wars can blow up solar systems with a single fighter-sized ship that's tougher than a planet, make that of what you will.
What weapon is this?
The Suncrusher. Its armour survived a glancing blow from a Death Star laser, and more tellingly allowed it to survive using its weapon: the ability to force nearby stars to instantly go supernova.
It was a one-of-a-kind weapon though - Seeing as 'crons can mass produce them, well...
Oh, that was a space station that fired a torpedo that had the capability of entering hyperspace to traverse the cosmos to the targeted system. Said torpedoes were also heavily-shielded and fast, so once in-system were nigh-unstoppable.
The Sun-Crusher was also devoured by the black holes of the Maw, and so no longer exists.
I was looking for a "fighter-sized ship" with this capability, based on the post mentioning it.
You're mixing up your phallic symbols superweapons.
You're describing the galaxy gun (which attacked planets and was shaped like a giant space penis), the suncrusher was fighter sized.
Fair enough. When a system is filled with phallic symbol superweapons in a pile of books taller than I am, it's easy to confuse one for another.
It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised.
Verviedi wrote: 40k... No... The fething TAU godstomp the entire SW Galaxy (assuming original series)
Tau? LoL, Just gimme a random IG regiment and I take out the Republic in couple of Months
Harldly. the Old Sith Empire, Mandalorians, Galactic Empire, and Fel Empire could all solo the entire IoM by themselves.
The Tau would be slaughtered in a fight with any faction star wars presents.
If people want to claim EU doesn't count then you cannot claim that the exaggerated power levels of the 40k levels exist considering 40k doesn't even have a 'canon'.
In short. No gimping.
You seem to not understand the difference in firepower between the IOM and the Galactic Empire.
Powered up turbolaser shots by the ICS unleash 200 gigatons per shot. This level of firepower in 40K is not only common, but child's play. With 40k, firepower on ships commonly stretches into the terratons, IE "what continent" levels of firepower. The Imperium of Mankind doesn't NEED Exterminatus weaponry or a Death Star to blow up a planet. They can and have destroyed worlds by simply dumping lance batteries into the planet to completely annihilate the world and scatter its remnants across several hundred lightyears in the course of merely ten thousand years. In the Night Lords books, Talos and friends discover a piece of Nostramo at LEAST one sector away from the original location of Nostramo. This would mean that the asteroid was accelerated to near the speed of light when Nostramo was destroyed in order to end up over two hundred lightyears away from its original location, and that's being generous. For all we know it could have been hundreds.
40K utterly annihilates Star Wars so hard it isn't even funny. Monsters like fully formed C'tan, the Chaos Gods lacking restriant, or Tyranids declaring a full strength invasion would simply wipe their galaxy off the map. The 40k universe united only results in the complete destruction of the Galaxy of far, far away. Even the fricken' Tau could do a number on Star Wars, and they're an utterly pathetic minor xenos race.
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
You don't seem to get how this providing evidence thing works. SO clearly I win. I'm not wasting any more of my time with you. I cited an actual source. You've barked like some squawking kid who had his testicles stepped on. So I'm out. If and when someone shows up to have an actual debate instead of a pissing contest I'll come back.
I give you the porkins badge of try hard debate. Keep it up and you might actually threaten someone someday.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/11 21:53:14
