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People complain about it and call for a nerf like it's still 6th edition, ignoring every 7th edition codex.

Tyranids - if you don't run as many flyrants as you can afford, people think you have mental issues. Most biomorphs are ridiculously overpriced, on units that require overlapping forms of support to make them work at all. Nearly all the troops are fragile, and require babysitting if you want to ensure they don't eat each other or run off an objective. Drop pods without any sort of "drop pod assault"-esque rule. The maleceptor.

Really my biggest pet peeve is synapse. No other army requires X unit to make your other units controllable. Seriously. What kind of mechanic is that. Your opponent knows that these (mostly fragile) units are necessary for you to keep alive in order to get to play the game. Good luck trying to keep them alive, and in range, for 5-7 turns!! And it's not even as if you get a buff for keeping Nids in synapse... fearless basically lets you keep your units from running off the table and not having to test on their garbage leadership.

Space Marines: Basic troops don't really do anything. In fact, outside of grav bs and maybe Sternguard it's unlikely to see many units perform well. Obvious exceptions are made for the Gladius and Skyhammer, but without them we aren't amazing.

Imperial Guard: Just about everything is overpriced. Our tanks are slow as hell. For a "shooty" army, we are generally out-shot by anything else. Severe lack of anti-tank firepower.

Orks: Not as much as many people would think. The Orks are very well-rounded and diverse, but with the game leaning so heavily towards shooting now it can be tough with our low BS. Not to mention the fact that a lot of people can't adapt their assault army into a shooty one, either because they lack the will or the models.

Chaos Space Marines: We had the best Codex with our 3.5 version, but the flavour has been slowly stripped away in subsequent releases. This, combined with the fact that we're being left behind in the arms race, means that we're essentially more boring than vanilla Space Marines. We don't get special rules, cool equipment or Chapter (Legion) Tactics. We just get the shaft. Shame, that, as we really had one of the most exciting books out there about ten years ago.

Space Wolves: Not a whole lot wrong with them. Codex Marines got Centurions, we have Thunderwolf Cavalry. Both are silly in some peoples' minds, but highly effective. When used right (as a close to mid-range army) we can still be devastating, but probably not as much as we were in 5th.

Eldar: I've just started them and haven't really had much time with them yet. So far on paper all their units seem great. A little fragile, but maneuverable enough to evade a lot of opponents' fire and shooty enough to remove a lot before we get hit anyway.

Problems with the armies I play:
Dark Angels: Good codex overall (much improved over the previous one), but still not top tier. Azrael, as has been mentioned earlier in this thread, is virtually useless outside of casual play. Poor internal balance means that some cool stuff just isn't powerful enough to actually take (looking at you Hammer of Caliban formation). Certain little snafu's in the codex, like the fact that a Ravenwing Strike Force can only take Sammael as an HQ (per RAW), but has three HQ slots, also hurt the book.
Chaos Space Marines: The main thing wrong with this book is that is is hopelessly outdated. The massive power creep in the game has made it where other armies can do far more for far fewer points. Also, too many junk units that no one would ever take without a major buff/points drop. The only way to viably use this faction is as allies with Daemons or Khorne Daemonkin.
Khorne Daemonkin: Most of their units are too fragile to make it into CC, even though the 'dex is supposed to be melee-focused. The best way to play this faction seems to be to spam the units that are durable enough to close with the enemy (specifically Flesh Hounds, Bikers, and Juggerlords/Juggerheralds). The book does also suffer from some of the problems of the CSM 'dex (such as some units being overpriced).
Tau Empire: The book is pretty solid despite its age, however the model sculpts and kits are starting to become somewhat dated. There are also too many junk units in the codex (Vespid Stingwings, Aun'shi, etc.), and the best units are overwhelmingly better than the other stuff, meaning that many competitive Tau armies look very much the same.

LockeWatts wrote:
People complain about it and call for a nerf like it's still 6th edition, ignoring every 7th edition codex.

Which faction?

Eldar is very powerful atm. Therefore I shelved them.
Necrons are fine in apoc games.
My Marine armies are less fun to play atm. So I will stay with Necrons.

 Selym wrote:

LockeWatts wrote:
People complain about it and call for a nerf like it's still 6th edition, ignoring every 7th edition codex.

Which faction?

Just searched through LockeWatts' posts. He means Tau.

Tau aren't too OP atm, but the Riptide is a massive pain in the ass. And there are a couple of codexes that straight up can't handle Tau.

rowboatjellyfanxiii wrote:
Space Marines 7E: All other chapters that are not Ultras get immediately shafted (Read: Vulkan He'Stan, brilliant model, brilliant HQ choice, no support.), Captain Shrike loses his best unit (Shrikes wing, basically Shrike with Vanguard Veterans but at reduced points and more options) and Captain Sicarius losing his special rule and it becoming a warlord trait.

Classic smurf favoritism.

-GK-
Codex is literally a third of what it was originally
The third that remains, half the units are over-costed
We play the units that are not over-costed and fit in the ONE formation we have
The result is a Mono-build

-Orks-
I don't want to play Orks because they aren't fun anymore, Kanz Wall isn't playable...
It sucks when it reaches that point, at least with GK I get the challenge of a all-in playstyle.
The rest were listed earlier.

 Yack Maniels wrote:

rowboatjellyfanxiii wrote:
Space Marines 7E: All other chapters that are not Ultras get immediately shafted (Read: Vulkan He'Stan, brilliant model, brilliant HQ choice, no support.), Captain Shrike loses his best unit (Shrikes wing, basically Shrike with Vanguard Veterans but at reduced points and more options) and Captain Sicarius losing his special rule and it becoming a warlord trait.

Classic smurf favoritism.

Arguably the BT got improved in both 6E and 7E C:SM.

But, inarguably, they are the only ones besides the Ultras who don't get thrown by the wayside.

 Selym wrote:
Arguably the BT got improved in both 6E and 7E C:SM.

But, inarguably, they are the only ones besides the Ultras who don't get thrown by the wayside.

I'd actually argue that Imperial Fists Chapter Tactics, when combined with Sternguard and Kantor, are still pretty good.

White Scars also do well, from what I hear.

 Selym wrote:

LockeWatts wrote:
People complain about it and call for a nerf like it's still 6th edition, ignoring every 7th edition codex.

Which faction?

Tau. People who say to me Riptides are OP and need a nerf or that Markerlights are too strong either, 1. haven't played in the tournament circuit in 2015 and seen: Skyhammer, Gladius, Decurion, Wraithknights, or War Convocation. Hell, the best Tau have ever done so far as I've seen in 2015 was 3rd at BAO. But we're super OP? Please, or 2. Are talking about casual balance, which is an oxymoron in and of itself.

LockeWatts wrote:

 Selym wrote:

LockeWatts wrote:
People complain about it and call for a nerf like it's still 6th edition, ignoring every 7th edition codex.

Which faction?

Tau. People who say to me Riptides are OP and need a nerf or that Markerlights are too strong either, 1. haven't played in the tournament circuit in 2015 and seen: Skyhammer, Gladius, Decurion, Wraithknights, or War Convocation. Hell, the best Tau have ever done so far as I've seen in 2015 was 3rd at BAO. But we're super OP? Please, or 2. Are talking about casual balance, which is an oxymoron in and of itself.

Eh, you're an oxymoron.

But there are two (possibly three) armies that are pretty much guaranteed to have a bad day against Tau: IG, CSM, and possibly Orks, going by what I've heard of the ladz in green.

 Selym wrote:


But there are two (possibly three) armies that are pretty much guaranteed to have a bad day against Tau: IG, CSM, and possibly Orks, going by what I've heard of the ladz in green.

You just listed the three weakest codecies currently in the game, and IG can ally with all of the Imperium so they're not even that bad off. Using those as a benchmark for Tau's new codex is absurd. It should be benchmarked by what came out recently: Necrons, Eldar, Space Marines, Ad Mech. All of which are top tier.

LockeWatts wrote:

 Selym wrote:


But there are two (possibly three) armies that are pretty much guaranteed to have a bad day against Tau: IG, CSM, and possibly Orks, going by what I've heard of the ladz in green.

You just listed the three weakest codecies currently in the game, and IG can ally with all of the Imperium so they're not even that bad off. Using those as a benchmark for Tau's new codex is absurd. It should be benchmarked by what came out recently: Necrons, Eldar, Space Marines, Ad Mech. All of which are top tier.

For the last fething time:

BEING ABLE TO ALLY WITH OTHERS DOES NOT MAKE A CODEX STRONG. IG are at rock bottom next to Sisters. We are not strong codex's because we can ally. If anything that makes us weaker.

LockeWatts wrote:

 Selym wrote:


But there are two (possibly three) armies that are pretty much guaranteed to have a bad day against Tau: IG, CSM, and possibly Orks, going by what I've heard of the ladz in green.

You just listed the three weakest codecies currently in the game, and IG can ally with all of the Imperium so they're not even that bad off. Using those as a benchmark for Tau's new codex is absurd. It should be benchmarked by what came out recently: Necrons, Eldar, Space Marines, Ad Mech. All of which are top tier.

No he didn't. BA are far worse.

Edit: worse than CSM and Orks. Around level with Guard.

When people say IG suck, I tend to disagree. Although I play Death Korps, I played a few games as Astra Militarum and I didn't have a problem. Their normal troops are dirt cheap and good when they're hands are held by a Commissar. Their tanks are amazing, they have soooo many barrage options.

I find Death Korps better though. Although they lack anti-air (though I just take an ADL), the fact that they are practically fearless and have WS4 make them a LOT more reliable. I line them up and watch my enemy shoot into that meat wall for the whole game, trying to whittle them down off objectives, but they hold out 70% of the time. And I have so much barrage that I just smash their face before they even get close to my objectives. And even if they do get close to my objective, I just charge them with a bunch of squads and watch my enemy curse as my WS4 prevents them from killing my dudes as fast as they want.

I can't say guard are particularly underpowered. Sure, they aren't as good as Tau at gunline, but in a different way they are. Tau can't have anywhere near as many bodies lined up on objectives. Other horde armies tend to be more close combat and lack any range to blob on objectives, whereas Guard can have a crap ton of bodies on objectives AND have the capability of zotting everything within most armies' range.

The only thing I'd complain about is the price of Heavy Weapons Teams. I think that they should go a little down in price and have a raise in toughness, to represent that they're hunkered down. That'd also make their 2 wounds much more reliable.

 master of ordinance wrote:

LockeWatts wrote:

 Selym wrote:


But there are two (possibly three) armies that are pretty much guaranteed to have a bad day against Tau: IG, CSM, and possibly Orks, going by what I've heard of the ladz in green.

You just listed the three weakest codecies currently in the game, and IG can ally with all of the Imperium so they're not even that bad off. Using those as a benchmark for Tau's new codex is absurd. It should be benchmarked by what came out recently: Necrons, Eldar, Space Marines, Ad Mech. All of which are top tier.

For the last fething time:

BEING ABLE TO ALLY WITH OTHERS DOES NOT MAKE A CODEX STRONG. IG are at rock bottom next to Sisters. We are not strong codex's because we can ally. If anything that makes us weaker.

BA are worse than IG or Sisters.

SoB codex suffers from internal balance issues and FoC slot competition, but is still a strong mid tier codex.

BEING ABLE TO ALLY WITH OTHERS DOES NOT MAKE A CODEX STRONG. IG are at rock bottom next to Sisters. We are not strong codex's because we can ally. If anything that makes us weaker.

I mean, if you want to throw a hissy fit that's your prerogative, but that doesn't make you right.

IoM has to be considered as a whole group of codecies, because of the way battle brothers work. Same with Eldar\DE.

Errr no. Tau can also ally with Ad mech, SMs, Eldar, Crons or anyone else. If we use your logic everyone is as powerful as everyone else because anyone can ally with anyone else.
You need to base how strong a codex is, funnily enough, on how strong THAT CODEX actually is. Not measure IG by how strong Ad Mech is.
Otherwise I say Tau is OP because you can ally Eldar and DE in and take WraithKnights and Aspect warriors in venoms/Raiders. God damn those OP Tau!

LockeWatts wrote:

BEING ABLE TO ALLY WITH OTHERS DOES NOT MAKE A CODEX STRONG. IG are at rock bottom next to Sisters. We are not strong codex's because we can ally. If anything that makes us weaker.

I mean, if you want to throw a hissy fit that's your prerogative, but that doesn't make you right.

IoM has to be considered as a whole group of codecies, because of the way battle brothers work. Same with Eldar\DE.

So by your definition the weakest two codex's in the game are strong because we can ally with the Space Marins and Adeptus Mechanicus and have them save our bacon? Wonderful way to show your ignorance newbie. Wilst your at it I suppose that Space Marines are really weak and underpowered too because they can be killed by ammassed lasgun fire - usually 1 per FRFSRF section within 12" - right?

LockeWatts wrote:

BEING ABLE TO ALLY WITH OTHERS DOES NOT MAKE A CODEX STRONG. IG are at rock bottom next to Sisters. We are not strong codex's because we can ally. If anything that makes us weaker.

I mean, if you want to throw a hissy fit that's your prerogative, but that doesn't make you right.

IoM has to be considered as a whole group of codecies, because of the way battle brothers work. Same with Eldar\DE.

Nope, because that means the IoM codex costs 500 dollars. That's directly pay-to-win.

Martel732 wrote:

LockeWatts wrote:

BEING ABLE TO ALLY WITH OTHERS DOES NOT MAKE A CODEX STRONG. IG are at rock bottom next to Sisters. We are not strong codex's because we can ally. If anything that makes us weaker.

I mean, if you want to throw a hissy fit that's your prerogative, but that doesn't make you right.

IoM has to be considered as a whole group of codecies, because of the way battle brothers work. Same with Eldar\DE.

Nope, because that means the IoM codex costs 500 dollars. That's directly pay-to-win.

Is pay-to-win supposed to be news?

Skyhammer is a thing.

 Ashiraya wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

LockeWatts wrote:

BEING ABLE TO ALLY WITH OTHERS DOES NOT MAKE A CODEX STRONG. IG are at rock bottom next to Sisters. We are not strong codex's because we can ally. If anything that makes us weaker.

I mean, if you want to throw a hissy fit that's your prerogative, but that doesn't make you right.

IoM has to be considered as a whole group of codecies, because of the way battle brothers work. Same with Eldar\DE.

Nope, because that means the IoM codex costs 500 dollars. That's directly pay-to-win.

Is pay-to-win supposed to be news?

Skyhammer is a thing.

Even more relevant, having access to many other codices does not make the BA codex ITSELF good. It's strictly better to just take vanilla units and not use BA at all. So in this way, IoM does not make BA any better at all.

Hang on so are we saying that IG are OP because Skyhammer exists? Then Tyranids, Orks, Tau, BA, Sisters, Inquisition, Harlequins, GKs and SWs are also OP as they all have access to skyhammer too. This is now getting a touch surreal.

Poly Ranger wrote:
Hang on so are we saying that IG are OP because Skyhammer exists? Then Tyranids, Orks, Tau, BA, Sisters, Inquisition, Harlequins, GKs and SWs are also OP as they all have access to skyhammer too. This is now getting a touch surreal.

Nah, it all makes perfect sense.

Codex + Flavour of the Month = How to Win

Also

How to Win = Eldar + whatever you like

LockeWatts wrote:
Tau. People who say to me Riptides are OP and need a nerf or that Markerlights are too strong either, 1. haven't played in the tournament circuit in 2015 and seen: Skyhammer, Gladius, Decurion, Wraithknights, or War Convocation. Hell, the best Tau have ever done so far as I've seen in 2015 was 3rd at BAO. But we're super OP? Please, or 2. Are talking about casual balance, which is an oxymoron in and of itself.

You may get your wish when the Tau codex comes out. If Tau indeed becomes decurion/eldar strong, they'll sure look nice on the shelf as nobody will play you. Is that what you want?

Lockewatts - definitive proof that Tau are OP:

Tau CAD
Ethereal (Warlord)

10 Firewarriors

10 Firewarriors

Eldar CAD
Warlock skyrunner

3 scatterbikes

3 scatterbikes

3 scatterbikes

3 scatterbikes

3 scatterbikes

5 Warp spiders

D Cannon

WraithKnight

Skyhammer Annihilation force
5 assault marines

5 assault marines

10 devestators
4 grav cannons
Drop pod

10 devestators
4 multi meltas
Drop pod

1850pts.

So by the goal posts being set out that proves that Tau are OP, they are after all the Primary.
Orrrrrr... we can talk sensibly about which armies are underpowered.

We can cool our jets am bit here please people.

It's just toy soldiers 'member !

Thank you.