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Haha cheers. I've heard the HH books are worth getting just for the read. Do you recommend them for the fluff?

Poly Ranger wrote:
Haha cheers. I've heard the HH books are worth getting just for the read. Do you recommend them for the fluff?

I have all of them and enjoy them, but I also have all of the HH books from the Black Library. I play 30k with a buddy and at AdeptiCon events, so I get gaming use out of mine.

Your mileage may vary, as they say.

Orks: An army that is built around being a baseline stat army where every army is getting stronger rule sets that eclipses the Orks.
- Assault heavy army with fragile vehicles and footsloggers in a meta that still favors shooting and mobility while non skimmer vehicles are weak.
- Incredibly vulnerable to moral issues and mob rule works to accelerate unit lose (better than running away but worse then having a good leadership stat).
- Weak flyers with mostly anti infantry weapons in a codex that already has lots of anti light infantry weapons but limited anti vehicle or anti MEQ/TEQ. Blitza-bommer is decent at killing vehicles but it lacks volume of fire and must make a bombing run which is unreliable on some map deployments.
- An FoC that doesn't want to cooperate with their preferred playstyle. Troops are generally not ideal, no unit role modifications outside of Forgeworld, crowded heavy support and HQ slots.
- Ork special FoCs have terrible rules and barely change the FoC slots. Hammer of Wrath (boyz being str 3) on a 10+ inch charge roll for a unit of 10+ models is hardly going to come into effect. The Great WAAAGH FoC is even worse with a more punishing mob rule that needs big mobs to utilize and forced challenges for the Warlord when Orks don't have invuln saves in CC.
- Lack of invulnerable saves hurts a melee focused army with low initiative and weak armor.
- A specialty of walkers and open topped vehicles in an edition that heavily punishes open topped and has walkers being completely outclassed by MCs.
- Formations are very fluff focused or have costly tax units for weak or pointless benefits. A few all star formations like Bully Boyz, Green Tide, Blitz Brigade but most are of dubious value (GW's Dread Mob being a prime example of a good concept but an overbearing tax in the form of the failanauts)
- Some questionable nerfs to things that might of made sense in 5th edition but has no place being made in a 7th edition environment (biker nobz, killa kanz, cybork save, KFF, mob rule, etc).

Tau:
- A single focus army in a meta where well rounded armies do what Tau does as well as if not better than Tau but without such heavy handed weaknesses like Tau melee ability.
- An edition that seemed to single out Tau mechanics and nerf them . Jink, Ally chart, Vehicle damage chart in particular had a big impact on Tau strength.
- Over reliance on Riptides and Broadsides while the rest of the codex is moderate.
- Everyone rages about how brokenly overpowered Tau is despite how over the top some of the latest releases have been.

Grey Knights
- The rest of the codex got stronger while GKs got nerfed
- Elite melee army with weakened shooting in a meta that favors shooting and deathstars
- D weapons + Superheavies/Gargantuan Creatures make Dreadknights a sad baby carrier.
- No formations that make GKs any better
- Lost their utility/shooting options with the removal of psi ammo and Inq options.
- Very limited as a stand alone army so relegated to being an ally or taking allies.

Adepta Sororitas / Sisters of Battle

A reaonably good army list that is steadily falling behind the others - especially when compared to abominations like the recent Eldar Codex.

Whilst they can have devestating clsoe range firepower - they only have a single unit that comes with a weapon that can reach out to more than 36"
Elite Close Combat units are either over priced or fragile or both.
No formations or similar
The Canoness is overpriced and only has access to one relic which would make her reaosnable, has to pay ALOT extra for her 4++ save.
No Flyer despite having their own Starships
No Drop Pods - despite being referenced in the older fluff - so have to hitch a ride on Astartes ones

 kronk wrote:

Poly Ranger wrote:
Haha cheers. I've heard the HH books are worth getting just for the read. Do you recommend them for the fluff?

I have all of them and enjoy them, but I also have all of the HH books from the Black Library. I play 30k with a buddy and at AdeptiCon events, so I get gaming use out of mine.

Your mileage may vary, as they say.

Thanks for the info!

Well, as an IG and CSM player (lol)...

IG really lost their flavor. Their units have never been *fast* but named special characters gave them excellent board presence. In 5th I played a null deployment army that was absolutely fantastic - Al Rahem outflanking a mechanized platoon, 2 Manticores and 3 Hydras for fire support, 2 Vendettas outflanking, a CCS and some Vets for taking objectives, etc. The army could literally deploy in all 4 corners of the table fairly reliably T2. 6th took away the null deployment option, the 6th codex took away all of the flavor, and we're really left with a codex that has two strong units (Pask, and Wyverns) while the rest of the codex is comprised of overpriced but usable units (Vets, Vendettas, Chimeras), and garbage.

CSM has had issues for a while. It's fairly monobuild, really succeeding only with Spawn Rush and never does too well against truly optimized builds. Heldrakes were good when they could flame in all directions...a 45 degree cone is kind of ludicrous. I don't use them anyway, but 180 degrees seems far more reasonable given that the weapon is mounted on a creature with a neck. The rest of the codex is just overpriced across the board, and units that should be fearless are not. The codex would need price drops across the board, cult Terminators, Chapter Tactics-esque rules for Marine squads, etc. As it is, hardly any CSM players include any Chaos Space Marines in their armies. The only actual CSM in mine are lords on bikes or Juggers.

Tau-
As much as I hate complaining when you have a Codex that is decently written:
The Rules are not kind on vehicles in the latest few editions, further pushing everything towards bigger and bigger suits....

Space marines
-my brother wont shut up about how "You have a army of all 3+ armor saves! and you complain that my 3 riptide 7 broadside list is to good?"
but nothing is actually wrong with the army in my opinion

 ionusx wrote:
still no viable anti-air methods at all betond forgeworld and the command tanks

QFT

 ionusx wrote:
azreal and belial are virtually worthless

I don't know about that. They have their place. I could kinda understand where you are coming from, but at the same time, I see their uses. Just to throw out an example, there's a campaign that'll be running at my local GW store soon that one of the employees is writing. It's based on leadership checks. Seeing that any friendly DA model can use Azrael's leadership number, he'll be extremely useful in that campaign. With Belial... not as useful, but being able to Deep Strike a group of Deathwing Knights anywhere on the board without them scattering. Not a bad perk. It really all depends on how you use them and your local store's games/campaigns.

SG

Dark Angels:
One of the "top four" but still some issues. I'll leave out general complaints like Terminators being too weak/anything related to stuff missing that's in the Vanilla codex, anger over options being removed and so on, whether or not one would consider this stuff to be legit issues they aren't really Codex: Dark Angels problems.

In all it mostly comes down to two things:

• Really weak anti-air: no Hunters, no Stalkers, the planes are more for air-to-ground attacks and the Mortis Dread is a Forge World thing, basically if you want to kill flying stuff you need FW, Fortifications or Allies.

• Rules issues: From big stuff like the Ravenwing HQ Problem and pure Deathwing auto-losing Turn 1 to smaller things that aren't as famous, there are quite a few problems with RAW, sometimes it's an easy fix while others would take hardcore house-ruling (thankfully more of the former than the latter).

All in all a fairly small though, thankfully

Take all of our hatred and all of our sorrow, OP!

Craftworlders: Got lots of buffs after already being one of the most powerful books, and those buffs didn't even come with a points increase. This, combined with scatter bikes and a waaaaay too cheap wraith knight continue to perpetuate the stigma tied to the army. (I started my first army, eldar, in 5th edition when they stank, and I'm proud of it! )

Harlequins: Have been covered pretty well by a previous poster. Basically, their limited formations/detachments make them difficult to include because you either can't get the all the units meant to work together (transports, shadowseers, troops) in the same place or else you spend an arm and a leg to do so. Having an option to treat a Shadowseer or death jester as an HQ and use them as an allied detachment would help a lot.

They also have tough-to-solve durability issues. I've been using the cast of players in a raider in tandem with a dark eldar combined arms and (sometimes) an aspect host, and they do okay. The problem is that it's very easy for them to get shot down and stranded, and that leaves a lot of points on the ground without the benefit of rising crescendo. Veil of Tears and dance of shadows can help, but your chances aren't great of getting the latter, and you can't cast either until you're out of your transport anyway. And even if you do deliver them into combat unscathed, they don't weather return fire well (even with a shadowfield archon babysitting them), so you risk losing a bunch of points even though you got in a decent round or two of melee. Also, taking them in small squads doesn't quite work because they don't kill off most hordes reliably enough to bully them, die too easily to return punches and overwatch to remain effective, and the cheapest way to take them (cast of players) requires you take a pair of not-cheap characters with them.

They're fun, but I'm struggling to find their niche.

dark kin: Lost lots of flavor and characters. Even a bunch of their wargear went from doing something quirky (and often surprisingly useful in a 7th edition meta) to being "insta-death on a to-wound roll of 6" or something similar. I'm also going to complain about Power From Pain. The previous version had its weaknesses, but it was satisfyingly visceral, and it basically let you give the units that needed it a 4+ FNP right off the bat with a cheap haemonculus option. My incubi could begin the game with 3+ armor, 4+ FNP, and furious charge once upon a time. Wyches also worked better with a haemonculus starting them off with a 4+ FNP. They could actually assault things turn 1 and 2 and do alright against the proper targets t hanks to their durability. Then, if they managed to stab enough gents, they'd gain furious charge which could actually make them pretty okay at their intended job. 6th edition made FNP worse, then the 7th edition book made you wait until the game was halfway over to get worse versions of the buffs we used to have a chance of starting with.

The 7th edition book has its merits and fixed a lot of units. I just wish it hadn't wrecked or removed so many other options in the process.

Marines: I don't play them often, but I'm struggling to make my assault/dev/tac/terminator army work. I don't like cents or human flyers, and I don't particularly want to do a bike army, so I find myself getting beaten consistently by even things like orks.

Chaos: On the marine side of things, the rules actually work mostly okay for friendly games. The problem is that half the options are useless (Marks of Tzeentch on regular marines lol), and you can't really play to a theme. Alpha Legion lacks any sort of sneaky option outside of a warlord trait (that is inferior to one you might roll in the main book), and there's really no way to give them better trained "elite" cultist squads. I've been using vanilla marine Raptors rules to represent them, and I'm eyeiing my Sisters and IG as "cultists" for them for narrative games.

Thousand Sons are another faction I like the fluff of that simply don't work on the table. Your army is full of guys who mutate left and right despite that contradicting your fluff heavily. You have to take at least one of your iconic units' psychic powers from a table that is pretty meh and has a 1 in 3 chance of giving you a power that makes you mutate (see above). Rubric Marines themselves (AKA the unit labeled as "Thousand Sons") are good at surviving lascannons but die to bolters when the fluff says the opposite is true. Their AP 3 weapon would make a nice optional feature, but they'd benefit from having access to heavy and special weapons more.

On the daemon side of things, I'm just not a fan of the lolrandumb. Rolling for wargear makes it difficult to reflect my characters' fluff. For instance, I'd love to paint a herald up in metal colors and say it possessed a statue of itself forged by its worshippers. I'd like to reflect that with the iron skin greater gift, but chaos is fickle, so I don't have very good odds of actually generating that bit of wargear. I also dislike the warpstorm table as it's a lot of rolling for little effect, and it seems to hurt more often than it helps.

The randomness for the daemons would be fine as an optional formation or detachment, but I'd much rather see something like the daemonkin blood tithe rules for my daemonettes and hypothetical future Tzeentch daemons.

Tyranids: Are in a weird place. They have lots of neat units that just don't quite work, and they're punished pretty heavily for being a relatively slow assault army. My genestealers are just way too expensive for their lack of defense and delivery system. They'd make sense being priced similarly to a daemonette (plus a point or two). Having a brood lord HQ would help thematic genestealer lists a lot as well. I'd like to bring most of my army in through a Trygon tunnel, but then you risk having out of order reserve rolls punish you very severely. Plus synapse is annoying and punishing if you commit the sin of having your (often ineffective) synapse creatures die. I also miss the feeling of diversity the old books had. You used to be able to practically build your MC from scratch with all the biomorphs that used to exist. Now it's pretty much just, "Would you like to make your flyrant effective, yes or no? Excellent. And if you're taking other tyranids, how many useless biomorphs would you like to purchase?"

Astra Militarum:
- Sucky new name
- All our specialist option are rather lack luster, most are not 'bad' per se, but none are really useful and all are quite fragile
- 7th ed hates medium vehicles, chimera's are far too expensive and practically not that much better than rhinos. Also no reason to have tracked vehicles over skimmers.
- We haven't had any noticeable changes since 4th ed, every other faction has slowly increased their firepower and we've stayed mostly the same. We have had the addition of a few specialist units, but as I stated earlier our specialist units are quite bad
- Technically Horde army, so expensive to build
- No longer the most shooty faction, most likely equal or slightly inferior to tau, but we're no way near as mobile
- No CC units, yes most people say we shouldn't, but tau has agility to complement their firepower.... we have.... meh? A lone unit to help make someone think twice about charging into CC would be nice.
- Tanks are not a strong as the used to be, partially due to the HP system, partially due to the increase in firpower most faction have slowly had since 3rd ed
- The amount of weapon that now negate cover saves mean cover is far less useful to Guard (Sorry Astra militarbluh) than it used to
- They got rid of one of our only fun units... penal squads

Basically we're not bad, mid tier, but hardly an extremely competitive faction.

Black Templar

No codex
No HOLY HAND GRENADE!!!!!!!
Our High Marshal has no AP 2 sword yet he has a chapter tactic that makes him pretty dam boss in a challenge yet he cannot challenge anyone effectively because of it. Fluff wise he chasing Ghazghkull yet if he meets him he would just be thrown aside, I mean even a measly human (who is boss) Yarrick can do better! Also it was made partly from Dorn's sword yet AP 3, GW logic there.

Imperial Guard

I only play tanks so I can't say much

Have our original name back! that Astra Militarum
Our tanks are too slow
Need to be cheaper
Better tank commander orders
Pask needs to have rules that buffs other tanks

Grey Knights

Haven't used them much so not much to say

Make paladins more durable. With so much AP 2 they are not worth it and ID.
And everything else people have said.
Also bring back the True Grit rule. I liked it in 5th.

sisters: basically everything that is standard with everyone nowadays

Orks:

HQ's: we need about 3 just to be remotely effective, and painboyz are a must in most units if you want them to survive more then 20 seconds

Elites: Meganobz have no Invul save of any kind, they are over priced and their shooting is their mostly for you to waste a minute of your life rolling dice for zero result

Nobz: about 5pts over priced, 4+ armor is garbage since most weapons these days ignore it and is not worth the 4pts a model upgrade. no options for shooting with them, and with BS 2 it doesn't matter.

Burna Boyz: Either use the flamer or use AP3 Init2 CCW. Why should we have to choose?

Kommandos: They suck, to expensive, no threat range because they get shot off the board when they arrive.

Troops: Boyz are pretty decent, leadership is a major problem, the new Mob rule SUCKS terribly and the Nob is losing his "wow" factor since other factions are getting 2 wound sergeants now as well. Also why am i paying 4 pts a model on a 6pt model for a 4+ armor save that is negated by just about every weapon in the game?

Gretchin: The only troops in our inventory with BS3 and they get FETHING PISTOLS! why cant we give them sniper rifles, or something remotely useful?

Heavy support: FIrst off, OVER CROWDED, Do i take the Required Mek Gunz or lootaz or do I have fun with my now useless Killa kanz, Deff Dreads, Mork/Gorkanaut or battlewagon?

Mek Gunz: Are perfect, it would be nice to have some kind of weapon equivalent to a lascannon for Anti Armor, but realistically you can't complain about a 40pt model that can spit out a S8 AP2 small blast Rng 36 gets hot. Not bad.

Killa Kanz: Leadership on vehicles FETH YOU GW!, Needs an invul or something similar or at least a mobile cover save because they die to a strong breeze.

Deff Dread: Same problem as a Killa Kan except it has zero ranged weapons because apparently nobody in Orkdom has figured out how to put a Fething git finda on a vehicle yet.

Mork/Gork: About 50-100pts over priced, no invul save so useless, if you pay for the KFF on the Morkanaut you still can't use it in CC so why chance putting your now 300pt model into CC with a PF SM or SME? all your going to get is a 300pt pile of scrap.

Battlewagon: 20pts over priced, no access to gitfinda, Deff Rolla got nerfed so hard that I have yet to see anyone take one in 7th edition. Why pay for the Kill Kannon? its over priced, wicked short ranged and only S7.

Lootaz: To Random, you can very from 30 shots (10 hits) to 10 shots (3 hits) depending on dice rolls. Furthermore at S7 AP4 its great for killing infantry, so long as they don't have SME armor. its also good for Anti air since we don't care about losing our amazing BS2 to snap shot. Why dear god don't lootaz have access to Git findas?

Flash Gitz: Over Priced, Poor armor, random yet again, basically dead unless you cram them into a BW. So your paying another 110pts for them to move around the board and not get killed in 1 turn.

FAST ATTACK

Deff Koptas: they have 1 use, show up fire handful of rokkitz at something, and then die. at S3 they can't really utilize their Killsaws to assault anything except AV10 rear armor vehicles. They are also over priced.

Trukkz: over priced for a AV10 vehicle....but but they have 3 HP! wonderful, but they explode when anyone rolls a 6 or god forbid you get hit with a lascannon/melta then its 4 and 5 respectively. Furthermore, they need a buff to increase model count for transportation. I would love to be able to move mobz of 15-20 around by trukk.

ALL ORK FLYERS: AV 10 so feth us unless we jink, even more anti infantry weapons in a codex designed to slay badly armored infantry. the only good thing is the Blitz bomba and even that is meh.

Storm Boyz: jump pack ork infantry, YES!, 9pts a model...awww, no access to Eavy armor. WTF!i love the idea of Stormboyz but they aren't scary because they die to quickly and they are just assault orks. Giving them Eavy Armor at 3pts a model (10pts total) would make them viable.

Warbuggies: Same problems as a trukk and Deff Kopta.

And lastly: LOW

Ghaz: No invul, only has a 6+ fnp, 225pts for a beefed up mega armor warboss. his only unique buff is he lets MA nobz run and assault for 1 turn in the game and only if they are in his unit.

Stompa: can be 1 shotted. 770pts for a model that can be killed by a SINGLE BLOODY SHOT! its like the problems with Land raiders x 10. no invul save. why? Still only BS2, did nobody think to install the Fething git finda on this thing either?

Eldar:
Everyone complains about how broken they are.


Fortunately, I get no complaints since I've yet to assemble my Wraithknight, I have no Wraithguard, and I'm currently running my bikes as 3 man squads with no upgrades.

Necrons: needs more options to get adamantium will/ ANY play in the psyker phase. Non-character crypteks outside of CAD are an utter waste of points.
Ctan were made powerful, but into a randumb force. emphasis on the dumb. They were better before when it was a bunch of optional powers nobody understood.
I want ONE other alternative wargear for warriors. GIVE ME ONE!
All in all, the ability of necrons to optimize themselves was taken away from us and our playstyle was made cookie cutter.

Still strong tho so I like that.

Orks: I wish they had more Hq slots. The orks really, really nerf a Spamcurion like nobody's business. Ideally with three cores for Green Tide Speed Freeks and Mek Mob list styles. But we really need stuff like "here have 2-5 Weirdboyz in a detachment" or "four looted wagons" because we have a ton of Hq and HS models that never see play purely because the slot is too crowded. I'm still of the belief that Waaagh Ghaz was written by someone who didn't know what mob rule would do so he just assumed +2 would be a bonus not a penalty.


Harlequins: more models so I can buy them. A formation that doesn't have Voidweavers. I'd settle for better Eldar plastic kits so I can convert them or better DE rules so my conversions are actually good. Other than that I'm beyond happy.

IG: honestly? Nothing. Well...okay, it'd be really nice if the funky IG elite stuff was good, but I'm not dying without it. IG are doing exactly what I want them to do, which is let me play with goofily large armies I can buff to high heaven with allies. I ran a Librarius conclave with a blob the other day. Pure glory.

Mechanicus: 40k units I can use my Thanatar and Triaros for.

If current CSM lists were to be believed, excluding KDK, then there is only one Chaos God and that is Nurgle. Also, every CSM is either an obliterator or riding a bike.

Sad times.

Ordo Reductor:

No land raider achillies option even though they made the design
No ordo reductor 'siege-crucible' (ordo reductor drop pod)
No access to standard thanatar siege-automata
No cortex controllers to keep control of said thanatar
No myrmidons
Mechanicum land raider can only be taken as a DT, and only with calleb decima and thallax cohorts of 5 or less (only one in 3 thallax can take a weapon upgrade)
The single flyer option is a LOW avenger strike fighter and only becomes a fast attack choice when calleb decima is your warlord.
No HQ's with 'independent character' (this is a huge deal as it would allow you to hide your HQ in a squad and share abilities)

I could go on but you get the idea.
The key problem is at the bottom of my 'sig' section.


Edited for incoming awesomeness! ...hopefully...

I think IG could have an easy fix.
-Allow LR tanks to fire all weapons despite ordnance again.
-Allow heavy weapon and special weapon squads to join blobs.
-Give Heavy Weapon teams a rule which is basically the same as EW.
-Drop a few points here and there.
-Allow a unit to have multiple orders but they reduce their ld by 1 point for each order after the first and if they fail any then they fail them all.
-Bring the artillery pieces from IA:1 into the main dex.

That'll make them much, much more competative imo.

Or you could leave HWT the way they are and just make them 1 wound with the artillery type (making them T7)

Chaos Space Marines:

Lacks poison/sniper at range

Lacks special rules

Lacks good troops (I know people like Cultists, but they are just not good in my meta)

Lacks good psychic powers

General lack of AA

Poor selection of transport vehicles, especially for those who like assault lists.

All elite choices are worthless, except a small selection you make into troop choices through your lord.

Generally too high points cost (may not apply with better special rules on certain units)

Not very good versus AV14 at long range. Lascannons are okay, but they're a pricey counter.

Certain upgrades are 100% worthless on certain units. WHY would ANYONE take Mark of Tzeentch on something that doesn't already come with an invulnerable save? Should really be 5++ if you don't have anything. +1 I on Oblits with Mark of Slaanesh? Literally the only effect this will ever have is if you have to take an initiative test (and that does not include overrunning, as you're slow & purposeful).

I really like the idea of them being in blobs. They not only benefit from meat shields, but also benefit from the orders. Whilst the blob benefits from greater firepower.
Guard blobs worry nobody atm. Imagine if a 30 man blob had its own 3 autocannons/lascanons and 3 plasma guns and also got 2 heavy weapons squads and 2 special weapons squads added to it. 9 lascannons and 9 plasma guns in a blob makes them far more scary.

Isbjornen wrote:
Chaos Space Marines:

Lacks poison/sniper at range

Lacks special rules

Lacks good troops (I know people like Cultists, but they are just not good in my meta)

Lacks good psychic powers

General lack of AA

Poor selection of transport vehicles, especially for those who like assault lists.

All elite choices are worthless, except a small selection you make into troop choices through your lord.

Generally too high points cost (may not apply with better special rules on certain units)

Not very good versus AV14 at long range. Lascannons are okay, but they're a pricey counter.

Certain upgrades are 100% worthless on certain units. WHY would ANYONE take Mark of Tzeentch on something that doesn't already come with an invulnerable save? Should really be 5++ if you don't have anything. +1 I on Oblits with Mark of Slaanesh? Literally the only effect this will ever have is if you have to take an initiative test (and that does not include overrunning, as you're slow & purposeful).

To add to this...

Complete lack of options across almost all our units. While everyone else has gotten new toys for their squaddies over the years, we've been stuck with the exact same basic special/heavy weapons since 1999... Same goes in general for our close combat options as well.
We desperately need some new toys of our very own, especially on the vehicle front for the likes of the Land Raider, (of which those Loyalist b******** have about 1000000 variants because... "Reasons"), and the Rhino.

Our model line is the most woefully behind the times of all the 'in-store' armies... Hell, we only have a single non-vehicle kit that actually comes with all the basic squad options!! And while those Loyalis dogs have now had 2 god damned plastic Devastator kits, we're still stuck with a 100% unplayable Finecrap Havoc pile of garbage.

 Buttery Commissar wrote:
Astra Militarum: We have trouble with commitment and much prefer long distance relationships.
Don't come over here. I don't want you touching me. Stop it.

The Astra Militarum

"we're big, mean and scary, and if you come near us, I swear to the Emprah we'll crumble like an overbaked cookie!"

Imperial Guard:

Ineffective shooting. Our weapons, while potent on paper, aren't that great thanks to the sheer amount of saves a lot of units get these days. 4+ cover, FNP and invulns means a lot of guard shooting will be for not.

Vanquisher cannons are ineffective at their stated role of tank hunting thanks to being AP2 and BS3.

Basilisks needs to be ignores cover or have a larger blast. Large blast Hi-strength lo-AP weapons aren't that great anymore.

Leman Russes in general are overpriced, crumble easily and undergunned. HP4 and some buffs on the guns.

If Chimeras were restored to their 5e stats they'd be golden.

Khorne Daemonkin inherited all the problems of CSMs and Daemons, and, at the end of the day, I barely touch the CSM side of the codex because of this.

- CSM units now all cost more due to increased minimum unit size and forced Mark of Khorne on everything (forgefiends and heldrakes do not need their points increased for zero benefit, GW)
- The entire codex's power hinges on its formations, of which few are actually viable in competitive games (the Gorepack being the most viable due to the buffs it gives to the formation)
- Pitiful AA in the form of the Soul Grinder, who you normally want blasting through infantry with its guns and not wasting a turn with it's skyfire gun
- Unable to take pie plate Skull Cannons in the Blood Host Detachment outside of a single formation, meanwhile nearly all other heavy support units can be spammed, why?
- No Objective Secured anywhere in the Blood Host Detachment
- Helbrutes gain nothing in this codex and everything in the CSM formations

I love KDK but I make no illusions that the codex is competitive. The only CSM units I end up taking are cultists, spawn, and bikes.

Experiment 626 wrote:

Isbjornen wrote:
*snip*

To add to this...

Complete lack of options across almost all our units. While everyone else has gotten new toys for their squaddies over the years, we've been stuck with the exact same basic special/heavy weapons since 1999... Same goes in general for our close combat options as well.
We desperately need some new toys of our very own, especially on the vehicle front for the likes of the Land Raider, (of which those Loyalist b******** have about 1000000 variants because... "Reasons"), and the Rhino.

Our model line is the most woefully behind the times of all the 'in-store' armies... Hell, we only have a single non-vehicle kit that actually comes with all the basic squad options!! And while those Loyalis dogs have now had 2 god damned plastic Devastator kits, we're still stuck with a 100% unplayable Finecrap Havoc pile of garbage.

I completely agree. Currently our unique infantry weapons consist of the Noise Marine sonic weapons, which is a rather limited selection for a very small part of our codex.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Imperial Guard:

Ineffective shooting. Our weapons, while potent on paper, aren't that great thanks to the sheer amount of saves a lot of units get these days. 4+ cover, FNP and invulns means a lot of guard shooting will be for not.

Vanquisher cannons are ineffective at their stated role of tank hunting thanks to being AP2 and BS3.

Basilisks needs to be ignores cover or have a larger blast. Large blast Hi-strength lo-AP weapons aren't that great anymore.

Leman Russes in general are overpriced, crumble easily and undergunned. HP4 and some buffs on the guns.

If Chimeras were restored to their 5e stats they'd be golden.

You forgot the overpriced units, the ineffective orders system and the Tank Commander. Sweet goddess, never forget the Tank Commander and those terrbile orders he brings