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Gwaihirsbrother wrote: @OP. Near as I can figure. If Eldar win, they are OP. If they lose its because the Eldar player is stupid. If they are nerfed and can't win, again the Eldar player is stupid. So as an Eldar player you have two choices, win because of your OP codex, (it can't possibly be because you are good as Eldar players aren't) or lose because you are a stupid player who needs an unfair crutch to win.
With all that, Eldar players have from time to time fanned the flames of Eldar distaste, and less in your face I'm awesome you suck sort of grandstanding might quell the rage a bit.
It'll likely always be there though because some people dislike Eldar for reasons that go beyond gameplay. Even if they were bottom tier for years there would I think remain people who dislike them because of their fluff nature and because Spehz Muhreens.
I hate Space Marines with a bloody massive passion and I still believe that Eldar are so damn overpowered that they make other armies a mere joke in the wind.
Tell me, if you are such an expert, just how the hell a 12" ignores terrain move + boost + 12" special snowflake move 3+ armour save 2+ jink save S6 AP5 4 shot BS4 T4 unit costing a mere 27 points, available in 10 snowflake blobs and classed as a troops choice is fair?
Or how about a GMC which can go toe to toe with two Imperial Knights and win and will rape (sorry mod) ANY damn unit that gets within its LOS and who's only real weakness is Grav, a type of weapon available to only one army in the entire game, can cost less than an Imperial Knight?
Or how Wraithbrigade lists can essentially make a mockery of everything by paying a whopping 10 points to allow them to be bringing D flamers which invalidate just about everything else on the table?
Oh and BTW I play IG, not Marines or any derivative so that ammunition is usless.
The is a whole range of Eldar hate involves everything from reasonable concerns to ridiculous ones. I haven't suggested some things aren't OP. My default, when I played regularly, was to avoid spamming stuff that was widely complained about, but I would still have to listen to stupid complaints about the little I brought. Heaven forbid you take one starcannon back in third. Because spamming was OP you couldn't take them at all without the whine fest exploding into a cacophony. I cite back to an older edition because that was when I was active but the same thing happens now. One single Wave Serpent in 6th and OMG you cheesy TGG WAAC eldar player. A single squad of scat bikes now same thing. Basically Eldar players are asked to not even dabble a tiny bit into their cool shinies. So while there are reasonable complaints to be made, some take those complaints to absurd degrees.
Then those biases can persist for multiple codexes after nerfs have been implemented. Wraithlords were nerfed in fourth but take one in fourth and hear complaints about what happened in third. Play a list that never wins because it has a critical flaw despite some powerful models and hear complaints the whole game by an opponent who is winning easily.
I see posts in this thread and others that basically say all Eldar players are stupid because they can't win if the codex is nerfed and only win without nerds due to being OP. It is basically suggested that merely by playing Eldar you must be a cackling fool.
The ire goes far beyond the rational into the realm of histerical witch hunting. Meanwhile somehow some people manage to achieve success against Eldar and have the mindset of "whatever I can beat them", then low and behold they do. Of course that can only be because that particular Eldar player was no good. Every data point suggesting that critiques may be slightly overblown is ignored and dismissed.
With all of that said, I'm not happy with the current dex. I'd love to field a foot wraith army but hate the Wraithknight so the formation is out. The current dex doesn't offer a satisfactory way to do this. Spamming scatbikes? No thanks, not my thing. Pathfinders won't synergize well and I don't want as many guardians as guard. There is no option for guard as your troops without the damned Wraithknight. I get scytheguard guard are really nasty, but wouldn't be dark eldar in them in (despite being a past dark eldar player in 4th/5th so if I went that route it isn't like I would be just collecting to abuse without history there). Anyway the dex is problematic for people who like the army cause they think it's cool because they have to out up with a lot of crap and try to contort their army to not piss people off and even then you may still have to put up with abuse.
And while we are contextualizing our collections, I currently have more Orks, Nids (no flyrants) and Marines than Eldar.
The problem isn't that you take 1 unit that is considered OP as hell, its that the entire Codex is head and shoulders above everyone else so you don't ever need to take those units to play a friendly game. Sure if you go to a tourny then go balls to the wall. Can you name me one codex (besides necrons possibly) that has almost ZERO bad units in it?
Ork codex has trash littering it all over, Codex IG has all sorts of garbage (Its IG not fething AM). But Eldar? realistically maybe howling banshees, but even they are ok compared to other units.
This is one of those complaints about the Eldar codex that makes absolutely no sense to me. Every codex should have every unit as a viable option. That the Eldar codex is close to this is not a bad thing in any way. To complain about that is to succumb to irrational envy. The problem is that other codexes lack internal balance. If the Eldar codex had a bunch of crap units that wouldn't fix the other units in the other codexes. Complaints about stuff being OP I get and calls for them to be brought back in line make total sense. They have too many fieldable (not OP, just fieldable) units as a complaint though.
You missed the entire point I was trying to make. Let me state it another way. When your codex has nothing BAD in it it makes you TFG when you TAKE one of the most OP things in your codex. Why do Eldar players NEED to take the Scatter Lasers on every Bike or take the D-scythes or the D-cannon Wraith Knight when you can have BS5 Guardians and AP0 Firedragons and Warlock Battery Packs for your farseer to cast invis on everything.
LOL! I sure did miss the point about as badly as possible. Can't argue with what you say here.
Not that Id expect you to know though, its a common misconception that even many veteran players of the game seem to ignore sometimes.
Plus you seem to be new around here, so I am assuming your new to the hobby as well too so I understand the confusion.
Of course Id be an idiot if I just told you L2P ,and forget about it. You have to design your strategy at the list building stage and then practice with it...alot.
Also learning your armies rules by memory, and basics like terrain, tank shocking, multi-charging etc can give you more time to think of tactics mid-game instead of making sure that your following the rules correctly and constantly referencing the rulebook.
I've been around since 2nd. I remember the days of vortex grenades, IW oblits+basilisk, siren princes, rhino rush, starcannon spam, the last good nid codex, holofield spam, etc. That's how I know eldar has been the absolute #1 for 7 editions, 25 years straight.
Maybe in the past, when balance was not as skewed, skill might have played a part. I those days, people still talked about flanks, deployment order, cover and other things in the tactics forum. Even then, armylists played the most important role in a win, and the rest was just minor details.
These days, the only skill required in 40k is list building. All you need to do is look at your list and see if it'll be able to defeat scatbikes and wraiths. The match was over the moment you decided on your list. The tactics forums are full of nothing but armylists and unit comparisons. There is nothing relating to movement, deployments, flanks, distance, cover, etc. There is no glory in winning a 40k tournament. You had the most meta list, that's all.
Yoyoyo wrote: I wonder if Warmachine forums have characters there too, who are like: "Warmachine has no skill! Play chess!"
The draw of 40k is aesthetics and goofy emergent storytelling, not high-level tournament play. 40k has Fish of Fury and Leafblowers and rerollable 2+ hijinks, not Grandmasters.
The competitive history of this game is essentially one massive red flag telling you not to take it too seriously.
To answer your question, because it is a very balanced and tactical game, no, there is no one who says that.
I actually agree with you. Many here do not. They think their min-max eldar army won them games purely based on skill, and nothing but skill, when in reality, army list decides the match 99.95% of the time.
I actually like the 40k aesthetic, miniature detail and fluff of 40k, and that's all of my involvement in it. The game itself is unbalanced and terrible, which is why I hope it goes the way of AoS. It really is a silly game which tries to take itself too seriously.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/18 03:14:23
Martel732 wrote: Many of the best players I know are Eldar players. The codex just makes them neigh unbeatable. The power units aren't crutches for them; they are scalpels.
^This. Just because someone plays a certain army doesn't mean anything about them and their skill level.
40k has skill?
Yep it sure does!
Not that Id expect you to know though, its a common misconception that even many veteran players of the game seem to ignore sometimes.
Plus you seem to be new around here, so I am assuming your new to the hobby as well too so I understand the confusion.
Of course Id be an idiot if I just told you L2P ,and forget about it. You have to design your strategy at the list building stage and then practice with it...alot.
Also learning your armies rules by memory, and basics like terrain, tank shocking, multi-charging etc can give you more time to think of tactics mid-game instead of making sure that your following the rules correctly and constantly referencing the rulebook.
Skill isn't irrelevant, but 40k is definitely a game where you can essentially win in the "list building phase" and come to the table where an opponent, no matter how clever and brilliant, simply cannot defeat you, or is so reliant on perfect dice rolling as to remove the skill component's importance.
If you're running a "TAC" mechanized IG list for example, and run up against a Necron Decurion with gobs of Wraiths, or a "TAC" undivided CSM list running up against a triple-detachment TWC/Biker blob, you simply will not have the capability to break the units you need to break, and even if you greatly deplete them they're so powerful that they can still probably do their job effectively.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
Vaktathi wrote: Skill isn't irrelevant, but 40k is definitely a game where you can essentially win in the "list building phase" and come to the table where an opponent, no matter how clever and brilliant, simply cannot defeat you, or is so reliant on perfect dice rolling as to remove the skill component's importance.
If you're running a "TAC" mechanized IG list for example, and run up against a Necron Decurion with gobs of Wraiths, or a "TAC" undivided CSM list running up against a triple-detachment TWC/Biker blob, you simply will not have the capability to break the units you need to break, and even if you greatly deplete them they're so powerful that they can still probably do their job effectively.
Nails it once again.
You can say 40k has as much skillz as my level 47 Dragonborn, that doesn't mean anything. Having skill and balanced armies between two people is one thing. Having skill and an OP or UP codex essentially makes you unbeatable, or digs your own grave.
Heck, most of the time it doesn't even matter. I remember when my brother played WoW with me, and ran a Ret pally. We used to joke on him because he could smash his face into the keyboard to do damage. Eldar are essentially the ret pallies of 40k.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/18 11:08:49
I wonder if Warmachine forums have characters there too, who are like: "Warmachine has no skill! Play chess!"
I go to the Warmachine forums on privateer presses site. They don't. I can't comment on other forums, or the GW forums, but the companies website usually has people wishing for certain models. Overall they love PP and what they've done to the game. The recent releases and errata (do GW players know what an errata means?) bought them a lot of good will.
The worse you'll get is the Khador forums wondering why they don't have a Man-O-War UA yet.
The cygnar and cryx forums, after their strongest options were nerfed, were still not filled with hatred or much complaining. There was more of a sense of "now what?" and "this is 100% good for the game".
Compared to people here, who frankly don't know anything about warmachine but still feel the need to make up absurd examples on why its a bad game...it makes the playerbase here seem childish.
So far I've heard;
Warmachine is more unbalanced than 40k Warmachine has impenetrable forests that cover 2/3's of the board (only possible with bradigus if he somehow manages to kill 40 guys with his 8 models with 1 shot weapons. Also, no forests are impenetrable)
Warmachine has casters that can literally fly across the board (Max range for most guys is in the 20 range if they are melee, gun users like caine2 can go slightly further but still not too much higher. Usually 1 maybe 2 models in the entire list can do this)
Warmachine has casters that can bring their entire army to armor 30 for the entire game (A flat out lie. I think, maybe, 1 model in the entire game can do this for feat turn and that it is it).
You can't build a jack list in cryx, and this is what I really want to play (One of the best cryx player runs a jack list with two separate casters).
The draw of 40k is aesthetics and goofy emergent storytelling, not high-level tournament play. 40k has Fish of Fury and Leafblowers and rerollable 2+ hijinks, not Grandmasters.
40k has amazing aesthetics (which other companies are starting to compete with, like infinity. Its a smaller scale but dem models) and a great setting. The game does not have emergent storytelling, goofy or great.
Its not goofy when my chaos champion, from alpha legion, challenges your leader and gets murdered because hey, chaos gotta chaos. It's not goofy story telling when some codexes need to take allies (that in some cases break the fluff) to compete, despite the fluff making no sense.
Games like necromunda, gorka morka, and other such specialist games have amazing emergent story telling. When your leader gets into an epic duel with their heavy that lasts two turns before capturing the other guy, and now that team must decide to risk a rescue mission, pay a ransom, or let him be sold off into slavery, THAT is emergent storytelling. It's storytelling that happens from almost nothing but dice rolls, and its a blast to play. 40k has none of that, despite being a narrative game. 40k is entirely a pay to win model of gaming.
If you mean epic things can happen in 40k, every game has that. If anything, given the size of 40k, epic things are less likely to happen unless you build a deathstar and just go rampaging across the board, but that's not fun for your opponent.
The competitive history of this game is essentially one massive red flag telling you not to take it too seriously.
The competitive history of this game isn't terrible from 3rd-5th. Most of the factions could compete (with maybe 3-4 being too weak, or sisters just never making an appearance) and there were usually a few rules that were a bit out of whack, but could have been fixed with an errata or edition change but for some reason never were. Back in those days, list building was still a big deal (it is in most wargames, though in 40k its obviously more important) but not as much as now. You could go to a tactics forum and hear about deployment, flanking, which targets are important to you depending on your lists, leapfrogging back with transports, surrounding transports when they blow up. In 6th, it became list building that was most of the game, with deployment being important to a degree (mainly because DS). Tactics were pretty distant...they usually involved hugging cover and target importance (which didn't vary...any codex you were afraid of has a few OP units, you kill those or ignore them if they can't be killed and try to win anyway).
7th has gotten even worse. Figuring out how to optimize allies and formations are the name of the game now, with deployment being something you worry about only against DS spam armies (which aren't good). Most of the good weapons have so much range, many things are so tough or so fast, that deployment isn't a big deal. When a scatter bike can move over most things, move 12", and shoot 36", then scoot back, where are you going to move? You can't even use cover, the weapon nearly always allows an armor save.
But yeah, emergent storytelling happens from my DASW team up.
The difference between warmahorde and w40k is that if WMH was like w40k, then you would have one, maybe two factions able to do what youd described as unbalanced and everyone else sucking. Only that is not the case.
Dman137 wrote: Unit is 1391pts and is;
Wolf lord w/TWSSTH with 2 wolves
3 iron priests in TWs with 4 cyberwolves each.
6 ravenwing knight command with 1 apothecary
Chaplain on bike
3 level 2 librarians on bikes
28 models.
This is pretty much the whole army, the rest was scouts
(Grabs Popcorn)
400 points of scouts is a lot more than what people would consider normal, and definitely worth mentioning. It wasn't necessarily this list that won NOVA. It was the usual suspects of 2+ re-rollable, Invisibility, and a really good player that knows how to use their list to counter their opponent.
NOVA does not use Highlander comp; it restricts how many sources from which a player can build their army. Personally, I disagree with some of NOVA's house rules (multi-trackers work in overwatch, blasts affect all levels, no nerf to invisibility) and feel like their ban on all superheavies goes too far and their changes to D-weapons don't go far enough. I prefer the ITC FAQ, and don't know enough about the Adepticon, LVO, and BAO rules to comment on them. What NOVA's missions boiled down to was traditional objectives for the primary and limited kill points (i.e. choose this unit and score a point if you kill it) for secondary. The ban on superheavies basically meant that a deathstar of some sort would take the win.
Do you know why Eldar have not been curbstomping every tournament since their new book was released? It's because of two simple reasons. First, many TO groups have adopted or changed their house rules in ways to specifically nerf Eldar. They had to do it to let other armies have a fighting chance. Second, many tournament Eldar players are guilty of relying too much on certain units as a crutch for their own deficiencies in the generalship department. Everyone who plays competitively knows exactly what kind of list Eldar are going to bring and has prepared counter-strategies to deal with Eldar. By the lists you've posted in the Army Lists section (especially this gem: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/660633.page) OP, you're as guilty of this as anyone.
TL;DR Eldar aren't winning tournaments because people nerf them in house rules and many Eldar players cover up their ineptitude by spamming the same OP and broken units that are the subject of those nerfs.
did you see the player pack, the tables were covered in LOSBT and having a unit that's T5, 3+ cover save re-rolling, invisible, casts everything on a 2+, fearless the buffs go on and on and your telling me that this guy is a amazing player.? The list plays it self lol turbo boots up, multi-charge and then last turn spilt off into 9 units and grab objectives. Yeah real tactical genius lol
Well he is an amazing player and has the track record to back it up. He beat the two best daemon players in the country which is saying a lot as daemons are-were the top build over even eldar. He had two rhinos so it couldn't be all scouts but go on I love to follow along.
so your try to say that lictor shame and this list are examples of skill.? Lmao you really need to look up what WAAC player is because that's what this player is and also those daemon players are the same thing
Dman137 wrote: so your try to say that lictor shame and this list are examples of skill.? Lmao you really need to look up what WAAC player is because that's what this player is and also those daemon players are the same thing
Lawlz.
Lictors? Lictors actually do require thought and tactics to use effectively. I was honestly surprised when someone won a GT using that list (thought it still had 5 Flyrants, I believe). Also, Daemons need to combine certain units and characters to get stupid combos, so you need to somewhat know what you're doing.
Eldar players do the following:
1. Ask yourself what you need to kill this turn.
2. Point your unit(s) at it.
3. Kill it.
4. Rinse and repeat.
Dman137 wrote: Unit is 1391pts and is;
Wolf lord w/TWSSTH with 2 wolves
3 iron priests in TWs with 4 cyberwolves each.
6 ravenwing knight command with 1 apothecary
Chaplain on bike
3 level 2 librarians on bikes
28 models.
This is pretty much the whole army, the rest was scouts
(Grabs Popcorn)
400 points of scouts is a lot more than what people would consider normal, and definitely worth mentioning. It wasn't necessarily this list that won NOVA. It was the usual suspects of 2+ re-rollable, Invisibility, and a really good player that knows how to use their list to counter their opponent.
NOVA does not use Highlander comp; it restricts how many sources from which a player can build their army. Personally, I disagree with some of NOVA's house rules (multi-trackers work in overwatch, blasts affect all levels, no nerf to invisibility) and feel like their ban on all superheavies goes too far and their changes to D-weapons don't go far enough. I prefer the ITC FAQ, and don't know enough about the Adepticon, LVO, and BAO rules to comment on them. What NOVA's missions boiled down to was traditional objectives for the primary and limited kill points (i.e. choose this unit and score a point if you kill it) for secondary. The ban on superheavies basically meant that a deathstar of some sort would take the win.
Do you know why Eldar have not been curbstomping every tournament since their new book was released? It's because of two simple reasons. First, many TO groups have adopted or changed their house rules in ways to specifically nerf Eldar. They had to do it to let other armies have a fighting chance. Second, many tournament Eldar players are guilty of relying too much on certain units as a crutch for their own deficiencies in the generalship department. Everyone who plays competitively knows exactly what kind of list Eldar are going to bring and has prepared counter-strategies to deal with Eldar. By the lists you've posted in the Army Lists section (especially this gem: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/660633.page) OP, you're as guilty of this as anyone.
TL;DR Eldar aren't winning tournaments because people nerf them in house rules and many Eldar players cover up their ineptitude by spamming the same OP and broken units that are the subject of those nerfs.
did you see the player pack, the tables were covered in LOSBT and having a unit that's T5, 3+ cover save re-rolling, invisible, casts everything on a 2+, fearless the buffs go on and on and your telling me that this guy is a amazing player.? The list plays it self lol turbo boots up, multi-charge and then last turn spilt off into 9 units and grab objectives. Yeah real tactical genius lol
Well he is an amazing player and has the track record to back it up. He beat the two best daemon players in the country which is saying a lot as daemons are-were the top build over even eldar. He had two rhinos so it couldn't be all scouts but go on I love to follow along.
so your try to say that lictor shame and this list are examples of skill.? Lmao you really need to look up what WAAC player is because that's what this player is and also those daemon players are the same thing
Dman, we do not need to look up the definition of a WAAC player because you are here and from the look of your lists you are most definitely a WAAC player.
Free from GW's tyranny and the hobby is looking better for it
DR:90-S++G+++M++B++I+Pww205++D++A+++/sWD146R++T(T)D+
Dman137 wrote: so your try to say that lictor shame and this list are examples of skill.? Lmao you really need to look up what WAAC player is because that's what this player is and also those daemon players are the same thing
Lawlz.
Lictors? Lictors actually do require thought and tactics to use effectively. I was honestly surprised when someone won a GT using that list (thought it still had 5 Flyrants, I believe). Also, Daemons need to combine certain units and characters to get stupid combos, so you need to somewhat know what you're doing.
Eldar players do the following:
1. Ask yourself what you need to kill this turn.
2. Point your unit(s) at it.
3. Kill it.
4. Rinse and repeat.
Yeah lots of skill taking flyrants and mawlocks oh and 2++ re-roll yep sounds like great tactics lmao do you honestly even play the game or just sit there and complain.? Every event in the last year if not 2-3 years has been won by a WAAC player, and if you can't see that then idk what to tell you
Dman137 wrote: so your try to say that lictor shame and this list are examples of skill.? Lmao you really need to look up what WAAC player is because that's what this player is and also those daemon players are the same thing
Lawlz.
Lictors? Lictors actually do require thought and tactics to use effectively. I was honestly surprised when someone won a GT using that list (thought it still had 5 Flyrants, I believe). Also, Daemons need to combine certain units and characters to get stupid combos, so you need to somewhat know what you're doing.
Eldar players do the following:
1. Ask yourself what you need to kill this turn.
2. Point your unit(s) at it.
3. Kill it.
4. Rinse and repeat.
Yeah lots of skill taking flyrants and mawlocks oh and 2++ re-roll yep sounds like great tactics lmao do you honestly even play the game or just sit there and complain.? Every event in the last year if not 2-3 years has been won by a WAAC player, and if you can't see that then idk what to tell you
A. You mentioned "Every event" which, in regards to 40k, means nothing.
B. I do play this game (well, taking some time off), and consider myself a pretty good player.
C. Go ahead and borrow some Flyrants and Mawlocs and Lictors, let's see how you do.
Dman137 wrote: so your try to say that lictor shame and this list are examples of skill.? Lmao you really need to look up what WAAC player is because that's what this player is and also those daemon players are the same thing
Lawlz.
Lictors? Lictors actually do require thought and tactics to use effectively. I was honestly surprised when someone won a GT using that list (thought it still had 5 Flyrants, I believe). Also, Daemons need to combine certain units and characters to get stupid combos, so you need to somewhat know what you're doing.
Eldar players do the following:
1. Ask yourself what you need to kill this turn.
2. Point your unit(s) at it.
3. Kill it.
4. Rinse and repeat.
Yeah lots of skill taking flyrants and mawlocks oh and 2++ re-roll yep sounds like great tactics lmao do you honestly even play the game or just sit there and complain.? Every event in the last year if not 2-3 years has been won by a WAAC player, and if you can't see that then idk what to tell you
A. You mentioned "Every event" which, in regards to 40k, means nothing.
B. I do play this game (well, taking some time off), and consider myself a pretty good player.
C. Go ahead and borrow some Flyrants and Mawlocs and Lictors, let's see how you do.
He wont. It would mean giving up hir precious scatbike and wraithbrigade crutches.
Free from GW's tyranny and the hobby is looking better for it
DR:90-S++G+++M++B++I+Pww205++D++A+++/sWD146R++T(T)D+
Dman137 wrote: so your try to say that lictor shame and this list are examples of skill.? Lmao you really need to look up what WAAC player is because that's what this player is and also those daemon players are the same thing
Lawlz.
Lictors? Lictors actually do require thought and tactics to use effectively. I was honestly surprised when someone won a GT using that list (thought it still had 5 Flyrants, I believe). Also, Daemons need to combine certain units and characters to get stupid combos, so you need to somewhat know what you're doing.
Eldar players do the following:
1. Ask yourself what you need to kill this turn.
2. Point your unit(s) at it.
3. Kill it.
4. Rinse and repeat.
Yeah lots of skill taking flyrants and mawlocks oh and 2++ re-roll yep sounds like great tactics lmao do you honestly even play the game or just sit there and complain.? Every event in the last year if not 2-3 years has been won by a WAAC player, and if you can't see that then idk what to tell you
I'm guessing by 'WAAC players' you simply mean competitive players who take good lists to tournaments, in which case of course tournaments are going to be won by people like that. They're the kind of people who play at tournaments most often. Why would you go to a big event and not take a strong list if you're actually going to attempt to win? I don't think you understand what WAAC means, because it certainly isn't people who simply take strong lists to tournaments.
Dman137 wrote: so your try to say that lictor shame and this list are examples of skill.? Lmao you really need to look up what WAAC player is because that's what this player is and also those daemon players are the same thing
Lawlz.
Lictors? Lictors actually do require thought and tactics to use effectively. I was honestly surprised when someone won a GT using that list (thought it still had 5 Flyrants, I believe). Also, Daemons need to combine certain units and characters to get stupid combos, so you need to somewhat know what you're doing.
Eldar players do the following:
1. Ask yourself what you need to kill this turn.
2. Point your unit(s) at it.
3. Kill it.
4. Rinse and repeat.
Yeah lots of skill taking flyrants and mawlocks oh and 2++ re-roll yep sounds like great tactics lmao do you honestly even play the game or just sit there and complain.? Every event in the last year if not 2-3 years has been won by a WAAC player, and if you can't see that then idk what to tell you
I'm guessing by 'WAAC players' you simply mean competitive players who take good lists to tournaments, in which case of course tournaments are going to be won by people like that. They're the kind of people who play at tournaments most often. Why would you go to a big event and not take a strong list if you're actually going to attempt to win? I don't think you understand what WAAC means, because it certainly isn't people who simply take strong lists to tournaments.
so your saying that the person who took this list isn't a WAAC player.? You must be joking
Why are they? It's not like they took it to a beginners tournament or a casual league. They took a strong list to a big event where most people will take strong lists. That seems more common sense than WAAC.
so your saying that the person who took this list isn't a WAAC player.? You must be joking
We don't have enough evidence to state if he's a WAAC player or not. If he took lists like this to a regular FLGS and expected to always be able to get a game with a list like that, then we could make that assumption. As of now, we can't say that.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/18 13:56:59
so your saying that the person who took this list isn't a WAAC player.? You must be joking
We don't have enough evidence to state if he's a WAAC player or not. If he took lists like this to a regular FLGS and expected to always be able to get a game with a list like that, then we could make that assumption. As of now, we can't say that.
so let me get this straight you say he's not a WAAC because you don't no if he brings it to other softer events but I bring my eldar to a competitive event and I'm labeled as a WAAC.? Hmm yet sounds like a bunch of goobs on here
so your saying that the person who took this list isn't a WAAC player.? You must be joking
We don't have enough evidence to state if he's a WAAC player or not. If he took lists like this to a regular FLGS and expected to always be able to get a game with a list like that, then we could make that assumption. As of now, we can't say that.
so let me get this straight you say he's not a WAAC because you don't no if he brings it to other softer events but I bring my eldar to a competitive event and I'm labeled as a WAAC.? Hmm yet sounds like a bunch of goobs on here
No, you are WAAC because of numerous reasons. Simply stating someone is WAAC because they take a cheese-filled list to a GT is preposterous.
You, on the other-hand, complain that 1 in 3 Heavy weapons on Scatterbikes makes them useless, and you constantly tell people to "L2P" when you're bringing Scatterbikes and Wraithknights to casual games.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/18 14:06:29
Dman137 wrote: so your saying that the person who took this list isn't a WAAC player.? You must be joking
WAAC isn't just the list.
There's the attitude a the table too, with pivot-for-advantage on vehicles, time spent pre--measuring, arguing about rules at every opportunity, etc.
A list does not make a WAAC player.
This list, what WAAC list includes Lictors?
And, WAAC are working towards tournament top-spots, or what is the point of it all?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/18 14:08:08
Dman, the reason that you are labelled WAAC is because you constantly insist that Scatbikes and Wraithbrigade are not OP despite all the evidence contrary and then accuse others of being noobs who need to L2P because they cant beat you, despite having nothing that comes even close to the power of your units.
You then also insist that increasing the Wraithknight to even 400 points - where as it should be at least 550 - and taking only 1 in 3 heave weapons on your bikes - when in all honesty 1 in 5 or 1 in 10 would be fair - are stupid sugestions from butthurt players and will nerf these units too much to be playable.
You also regularly (from what you have written) take Scatbike spam and Wraithbrigade too casual games.
You ARE a WAAC player.
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WAAC stands for win at all costs, and implies the player will literally do ANYTHING to win, as winning is their only goal.
This could mean that they brought a super-hard core list to play a casual match against an unsuspecting player or it could go so far as to fake dice rolls and bring extra points change the rules.
To be WAAC you have to be someone who is willing to cheat in order to win as winning is the only thing that matters to them.
Dman is not WAAC in this sense. He is disillusioned with reality, and probably a troll, but unless he is deliberately forcing his opponent to play against him with an uber cheese list unprepared he's not really displaying WAAC behavior. Even then that's more of being a douche as he isn't cheating or lying in order to win.
WAAC=CHEATER
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master of ordinance wrote: Dman, the reason that you are labelled WAAC is because you constantly insist that Scatbikes and Wraithbrigade are not OP despite all the evidence contrary and then accuse others of being noobs who need to L2P because they cant beat you, despite having nothing that comes even close to the power of your units.
You then also insist that increasing the Wraithknight to even 400 points - where as it should be at least 550 - and taking only 1 in 3 heave weapons on your bikes - when in all honesty 1 in 5 or 1 in 10 would be fair - are stupid sugestions from butthurt players and will nerf these units too much to be playable.
You also regularly (from what you have written) take Scatbike spam and Wraithbrigade too casual games.
master of ordinance wrote: Dman, the reason that you are labelled WAAC is because you constantly insist that Scatbikes and Wraithbrigade are not OP despite all the evidence contrary and then accuse others of being noobs who need to L2P because they cant beat you, despite having nothing that comes even close to the power of your units.
You then also insist that increasing the Wraithknight to even 400 points - where as it should be at least 550 - and taking only 1 in 3 heave weapons on your bikes - when in all honesty 1 in 5 or 1 in 10 would be fair - are stupid sugestions from butthurt players and will nerf these units too much to be playable.
You also regularly (from what you have written) take Scatbike spam and Wraithbrigade too casual games.
You ARE a WAAC player.
and with that said your the definition of a GOOB.
Please enlighten me Dman, what is a GOOB?
Free from GW's tyranny and the hobby is looking better for it
DR:90-S++G+++M++B++I+Pww205++D++A+++/sWD146R++T(T)D+
a person who thinks that theyre funny or cool but really theyre just awkward and weird
Lifted from Urban Dictionary
Dman, the winner of NOVA might have been using a deathstar, but it was in a format where deathstars shine. Furthermore, the winner had to play against equally tough lists so there is an element of skill.
Eldar also took 2nd/3rd using a Scatterbike platform. Most likely Wraithknights had they been allowed.
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