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HoundsofDemos wrote: or a Mortis Comtempter dred

What page of the C:SM is that?

Traditio wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote: or a Mortis Comtempter dred

What page of the C:SM is that?

Thats a Forge World unit option

Ok. My personal griping aside:

With the exception of specifically tailoring my list to facing flyrants and tyrranids,

What are the things I should keep in mind, tactically speaking, when facing tyrranids? In particular, assuming no skyfire.

Traditio wrote:

 War Kitten wrote:

Traditio wrote:
Actually, now that I think of it...

I was running sternguard. I could have snapshot hellfire rounds at it and wounded on 2s...doh

My recommendation is to try and hit the Flyrant with Flakk Missiles and force grounding tests. Once it's on the ground, unleash the Hellfire Dakka

Flakk missiles are such a waste of points, though. That's an extra 40 points per devastator squad. And at AP4, the flyrant still gets saves.

And in this case might have won the game for you, which would have made them points well spent.

You play marines?
Sternguard you already touched on. Wounding on 2+ removes a big part of their defense.

Divination helps a lot too. Re-rolling to hit makes flying a lot worse (can double the amount of hits you score).

Force weapons are nice, but can be difficult to wound.

A bike captain armed to the teeth can go toe to toe with any unit in the Nid codex.

Grav-centstar does well. The bolters are good against the basic troops and the grav weapons destroy the MCs quite well. Teleporting around helps quite a bit and allows you to avoid CC.

Nids also have problems against GSF as well. They can typically destroy only 2-3 transports a turn until near the end of the game.

Kill the venomthrope. Hit flyrant with sky fire, even one unsaved wound can cause him to drop, take another, and get charged. Kill the big monsters. Get a few points from objectives.

if he spams flyrants play defensively and outscore him because he can't score unless he wants his flyrants to die miserably. Or take some sky fire and plink them away one by one at range, in cover.

Like I said these things you think make tyranids good are very manageable by almost any army.

Traditio wrote:
Ok. My personal griping aside:

With the exception of specifically tailoring my list to facing flyrants and tyrranids,

What are the things I should keep in mind, tactically speaking, when facing tyrranids? In particular, assuming no skyfire.

Taking AA options isnt list tailoring, its just a wise choice in this age of flyers. Maybe have two lists on with AA/Flyers and one with out.

Akiasura wrote:
Divination helps a lot too. Re-rolling to hit makes flying a lot worse (can double the amount of hits you score).

Force weapons are nice, but can be difficult to wound.

A bike captain armed to the teeth can go toe to toe with any unit in the Nid codex.

Grav-centstar does well. The bolters are good against the basic troops and the grav weapons destroy the MCs quite well. Teleporting around helps quite a bit and allows you to avoid CC.

I don't use librarians, bikes or centurions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
Kill the venomthrope. Hit flyrant with sky fire...

...Or take some sky fire

Reading comprehension. It's a thing.

Traditio wrote:

Akiasura wrote:
Divination helps a lot too. Re-rolling to hit makes flying a lot worse (can double the amount of hits you score).

Force weapons are nice, but can be difficult to wound.

A bike captain armed to the teeth can go toe to toe with any unit in the Nid codex.

Grav-centstar does well. The bolters are good against the basic troops and the grav weapons destroy the MCs quite well. Teleporting around helps quite a bit and allows you to avoid CC.

I don't use librarians, bikes or centurions.

If your not going to use the tools your army provide for you how can you expect to actually do well?

Take Skyhammer. 50% of the time youll win just by virtue of going first because you kill the flyrants on the ground and then hes got nothing left. Then if you only win half the games you go second you are winning 75%. Pretty good I'd say.

Okay, maybe you should post what you have. Bikes and Cents are some of the strongest options you have.

If you are spamming something like Devs w/o pods and grav, or ASM, I can see why you'd struggle.

CrownAxe wrote:If your not going to use the tools your army provide for you how can you expect to actually do well?

I use the tools that my army provides. I use tacticals, devastators, assault marines and honour guard.

Traditio wrote:

CrownAxe wrote:If your not going to use the tools your army provide for you how can you expect to actually do well?

I use the tools that my army provides. I use tacticals, devastators, assault marines and honour guard.

So you use 20% of your entire army options. Thats nothing

Your trying to build a house and insisting on only using a single hammer

CrownAxe wrote:Your trying to build a house and insisting on only using a single hammer

I also forgot sternguard. I run 3 squads of those.

Pedro Kantor, a chaplain and a captain.

Traditio wrote:

CrownAxe wrote:Your trying to build a house and insisting on only using a single hammer

I also forgot sternguard. I run 3 squads of those.

Pedro Kantor, a chaplain and a captain.

Ok 21%. Still not enough. The units you take aren't designed to do everything. That's why you can't beat flyrants because you didn't take any skyfire.

you can't not take the tools to deal with flying units then complain about flying units

Again you can't complain something is to powerful if your going to take things that are not good at fighting flyers, have us point out that if you took unit xyz that you would be good. Taking a unit with skyfire is not list tailoring in this day and age since every single codex has access to flyers.

If your dead set on never taking anything but one combination of units then your going to run into hard counters.

It's kind of list tailoring, because there aren't that many troublesome fliers.

 CrownAxe wrote:
Ok 21%. Still not enough. The units you take aren't designed to do everything. That's why you can't beat flyrants because you didn't take any skyfire.

you can't not take the tools to deal with flying units then complain about flying units

Ok. So apart from "take skyfire," you have no other tactical advice?

Brilliant.

Traditio wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
Ok 21%. Still not enough. The units you take aren't designed to do everything. That's why you can't beat flyrants because you didn't take any skyfire.

you can't not take the tools to deal with flying units then complain about flying units

Ok. So apart from "take skyfire," you have no other tactical advice?

Brilliant.

If you have lots of transports, it will take them quite a while to crack them. If you are fast, you can zoom past them and make them turn around the hard way.

What other tactical advice do you want? Ignore the Tyrant and work on securing objectives? Wipe out the rest of the Army? Snap shot it until you force it to the ground and then have Kantor and Honor Guard Charge him?

TO DEFEAT THE CYBER-DEMON, SHOOT IT UNTIL IT DIES. Is pretty much all we can give you with out you wanting to expand the list.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Again you can't complain something is to powerful if your going to take things that are not good at fighting flyers, have us point out that if you took unit xyz that you would be good. Taking a unit with skyfire is not list tailoring in this day and age since every single codex has access to flyers.

If your dead set on never taking anything but one combination of units then your going to run into hard counters.

You and the others are basically making my point for me:

If I specifically have to tailor my list to deal with whatever it is that you are bringing, and you have no other tactical advice than "change your list," then whatever it is that you are bringing is OP.

Nor can you complain that your codex is underpowered.

If your codex were underpowered, you all wouldn't be insisting that I tailor my list to deal with that codex.

End of story.

Traditio wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
Ok 21%. Still not enough. The units you take aren't designed to do everything. That's why you can't beat flyrants because you didn't take any skyfire.

you can't not take the tools to deal with flying units then complain about flying units

Ok. So apart from "take skyfire," you have no other tactical advice?

Brilliant.

What do you expect? If you ran an army with no guns that can hurt tanks and then asked on how to deal with tanks then the solution is to actually bring something that can hurt a tank. Because there is no amount of "tactics" that will let you deal with something you literraly can't hurt.

You're pretty unfriendly, I must say.

No one here is trying to do anything other than help you.

Like I said earlier, you don't want to listen, that is not our fault. I'm not the only person here who is mentioning to take units that can actually hurt flyers.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
What other tactical advice do you want? Ignore the Tyrant and work on securing objectives? Wipe out the rest of the Army? Snap shot it until you force it to the ground and then have Kantor and Honor Guard Charge him?

TO DEFEAT THE CYBER-DEMON, SHOOT IT UNTIL IT DIES. Is pretty much all we can give you with out you wanting to expand the list.

Lets ignore the flyrant for now. What about the other components of the average tyrranid lists? What's the ordinary target priorities?

Rhinos are a surprisingly decent counter to Flyrants because they waste at least a turn of fire popping it. Something like Gladius just slogs them down so much.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Traditio wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
What other tactical advice do you want? Ignore the Tyrant and work on securing objectives? Wipe out the rest of the Army? Snap shot it until you force it to the ground and then have Kantor and Honor Guard Charge him?

TO DEFEAT THE CYBER-DEMON, SHOOT IT UNTIL IT DIES. Is pretty much all we can give you with out you wanting to expand the list.

Lets ignore the flyrant for now. What about the other components of the average tyrranid lists? What's the ordinary target priorities?

My fragnoughts pay a visit to the venomthropes. "Nice cover bonus, bro". Or, sternguard vets with ignore cover ammo. It has also come to my attention that many MCs really dont' want to fight it out with a WS 5, AV 13 walker.

Martel732 wrote:
My fragnoughts pay a visit to the venomthropes. "Nice cover bonus, bro". Or, sternguard vets with ignore cover ammo. It has also come to my attention that many MCs really dont' want to fight it out with a WS 5, AV 13 walker.

Under what circumstances do the "primal instincts" or whatever rule of the tyrranids kick in?

Also, how do I strip the fearless bonus. What do I need to kill?

As Martel said, remove their cover saves. Take out their other big bugs, take advantage of your Hellfire Bolts, yes they will get armor, but you should be causing enough wounds to bring them down. Have the Devs help with it.

Use your Tacs and AM to take out the smaller bugs and take objectives.

Traditio wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Again you can't complain something is to powerful if your going to take things that are not good at fighting flyers, have us point out that if you took unit xyz that you would be good. Taking a unit with skyfire is not list tailoring in this day and age since every single codex has access to flyers.

If your dead set on never taking anything but one combination of units then your going to run into hard counters.

You and the others are basically making my point for me:

If I specifically have to tailor my list to deal with whatever it is that you are bringing, and you have no other tactical advice than "change your list," then whatever it is that you are bringing is OP.

Nor can you complain that your codex is underpowered.

If your codex were underpowered, you all wouldn't be insisting that I tailor my list to deal with that codex.

End of story.

Marines great assets is the ability to first strike - the drop pod. You should include a few in every list you take if you aren't running gladius. If an army has something you can't handle in the long run kill it on turn one. Skyhammer formation lets you drop relelntless devestator squads on turn 1 and 2 and lets you assault with 2 assault squads out of deep strike...what more can you ask for against the nids?

Also, I think ASM can just punch out venomthropes. DC certainly can.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
As Martel said, remove their cover saves.

And I do this by killing the venomthropes?

Use your Tacs and AM to take out the smaller bugs and take objectives.

How are the smaller bugs in close combat? Is charging a good idea, or no?