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Nid player instead picks up a new Necron army!

 Torus wrote:
A wild Imperial/wraithknight appears... nid army does what now?

Dependent on how the wraith knight is kitted wouldn't the nids player just use their 5 flyrants to kill the rest of the army. Then use lictor shame to camp objectives, or use mawloc to do chip damage to knight or kill other things.

oz of the north wrote:

 Torus wrote:
A wild Imperial/wraithknight appears... nid army does what now?

Dependent on how the wraith knight is kitted wouldn't the nids player just use their 5 flyrants to kill the rest of the army. Then use lictor shame to camp objectives, or use mawloc to do chip damage to knight or kill other things.

If we're talking super competitive Flyrant lists, yes, they're only option is to ignore them.

If we're talking a decent casual list, they're boned.

Who would bring a WK to a friendly game, or superheavy without asking opponent. Also maybe bring a barded heirodule with its mass of str 10 shots ap 3 into the WK. Put toe in ruins, be near venomthrope.

oz of the north wrote:
Who would bring a WK to a friendly game, or superheavy without asking opponent. Also maybe bring a barded heirodule with its mass of str 10 shots ap 3 into the WK. Put toe in ruins, be near venomthrope.

A. A lot of people do that in this game, as it's perfectly legal via the rules. B. A Heirodule is an expensive Forgeworld model, which just happens to also be expensive rules wise, and would do next to nothing to a Wraithknight, and would probably be D-ed off the table.

 Torus wrote:
A wild Imperial/wraithknight appears... nid army does what now?

Use Master Ball!

*throws bowling ball at the table*

Read the old codex.
Modern Tyranids have lost a lot, including their defining trait: Adaptability.

 EnTyme wrote:

 Torus wrote:
A wild Imperial/wraithknight appears... nid army does what now?

Use Master Ball!

*throws bowling ball at the table*

You win

 krodarklorr wrote:

oz of the north wrote:
Who would bring a WK to a friendly game, or superheavy without asking opponent. Also maybe bring a barded heirodule with its mass of str 10 shots ap 3 into the WK. Put toe in ruins, be near venomthrope.

A. A lot of people do that in this game, as it's perfectly legal via the rules. B. A Heirodule is an expensive Forgeworld model, which just happens to also be expensive rules wise, and would do next to nothing to a Wraithknight, and would probably be D-ed off the table.

I never said it was not legal to do that, I was saying if you are playing a friendly game, bringing a GC is not entirely common. Then again I am only speaking for my meta, others may be different. Also a barbed heirodule is around same price as other GC's in the game. Also with a 2+ cover can easily deflect a lot of shots unless 6 to wound, and massed str 10 ap 3 will do work on a WK.

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
You're pretty unfriendly, I must say.

No one here is trying to do anything other than help you.

Like I said earlier, you don't want to listen, that is not our fault. I'm not the only person here who is mentioning to take units that can actually hurt flyers.

Not dealing with stupid logic isn't being unfriendly.

oz of the north wrote:
Who would bring a WK to a friendly game, or superheavy without asking opponent. Also maybe bring a barded heirodule with its mass of str 10 shots ap 3 into the WK. Put toe in ruins, be near venomthrope.

Well apparently a lot of other Eldar players do but think about a semi competitive game.

You are not going to go HAM with 5 flyrants but you'd bring a strong list wouldn't you

oz of the north wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

oz of the north wrote:
Who would bring a WK to a friendly game, or superheavy without asking opponent. Also maybe bring a barded heirodule with its mass of str 10 shots ap 3 into the WK. Put toe in ruins, be near venomthrope.

A. A lot of people do that in this game, as it's perfectly legal via the rules. B. A Heirodule is an expensive Forgeworld model, which just happens to also be expensive rules wise, and would do next to nothing to a Wraithknight, and would probably be D-ed off the table.

I never said it was not legal to do that, I was saying if you are playing a friendly game, bringing a GC is not entirely common. Then again I am only speaking for my meta, others may be different. Also a barbed heirodule is around same price as other GC's in the game. Also with a 2+ cover can easily deflect a lot of shots unless 6 to wound, and massed str 10 ap 3 will do work on a WK.

A Heirodule is, what, 550 points? Correct me if I'm wrong. But it's BS3, and gets 6 S10 shots. So, 3 hits, good chance at 3 wounds, and the WK gets a cover save/invuln then a FNP. It's not going to "do work" on a Wraithknight.

 krodarklorr wrote:

oz of the north wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

oz of the north wrote:
Who would bring a WK to a friendly game, or superheavy without asking opponent. Also maybe bring a barded heirodule with its mass of str 10 shots ap 3 into the WK. Put toe in ruins, be near venomthrope.

A. A lot of people do that in this game, as it's perfectly legal via the rules. B. A Heirodule is an expensive Forgeworld model, which just happens to also be expensive rules wise, and would do next to nothing to a Wraithknight, and would probably be D-ed off the table.

I never said it was not legal to do that, I was saying if you are playing a friendly game, bringing a GC is not entirely common. Then again I am only speaking for my meta, others may be different. Also a barbed heirodule is around same price as other GC's in the game. Also with a 2+ cover can easily deflect a lot of shots unless 6 to wound, and massed str 10 ap 3 will do work on a WK.

A Heirodule is, what, 550 points? Correct me if I'm wrong. But it's BS3, and gets 6 S10 shots. So, 3 hits, good chance at 3 wounds, and the WK gets a cover save/invuln then a FNP. It's not going to "do work" on a Wraithknight.

It gets 12 str 10 shots, so could do some damage to a wk.

oz of the north wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

oz of the north wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

oz of the north wrote:
Who would bring a WK to a friendly game, or superheavy without asking opponent. Also maybe bring a barded heirodule with its mass of str 10 shots ap 3 into the WK. Put toe in ruins, be near venomthrope.

A. A lot of people do that in this game, as it's perfectly legal via the rules. B. A Heirodule is an expensive Forgeworld model, which just happens to also be expensive rules wise, and would do next to nothing to a Wraithknight, and would probably be D-ed off the table.

I never said it was not legal to do that, I was saying if you are playing a friendly game, bringing a GC is not entirely common. Then again I am only speaking for my meta, others may be different. Also a barbed heirodule is around same price as other GC's in the game. Also with a 2+ cover can easily deflect a lot of shots unless 6 to wound, and massed str 10 ap 3 will do work on a WK.

A Heirodule is, what, 550 points? Correct me if I'm wrong. But it's BS3, and gets 6 S10 shots. So, 3 hits, good chance at 3 wounds, and the WK gets a cover save/invuln then a FNP. It's not going to "do work" on a Wraithknight.

It gets 12 str 10 shots, so could do some damage to a wk.

Then what am I thinking of....nevermind. Still, for it's points cost, it would, at best, do a mediocre amount of damage. The Wraithknight can still get cover and will have FNP against it. While almost for the same cost, they could bring 2 Wraithknights with D-weapons (either ranged or melee).

 master of ordinance wrote:
Read the old codex.
Modern Tyranids have lost a lot, including their defining trait: Adaptability.

Not completely true, each Tyranid codex is in general stronger than it's predecesor. The problem is that the power creep in the other factions has been insane.

 Tyran wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
Read the old codex.
Modern Tyranids have lost a lot, including their defining trait: Adaptability.

Not completely true, each Tyranid codex is in general stronger than it's predecesor. The problem is that the power creep in the other factions has been insane.

I disagree. The 6th edition codex nerfed the Swarmlord extremely hard. They also removed any option as to which Psychic power tree you could take. And they made Synapse actually detrimental to the army. Did I mention they also removed the Doom of Malantai? They also initially removed their drop pods (though they added them back, thank god).

Maybe. I just played a game against a Skyblight Swarm, and a CAD with two Flyrants, a Mucalid, Zoanthropes (including Neurothrope), Venomhropes, and an extra Crone. I managed to win, but that's because I brought a Tervigon, two Sporocysts, two DS Rippers, Zoanthropes, Venomthrope, Trygon, Manufactorum Genestealers, and an Endless Swarm. All told I got 100+ 'free' models from Without Number, Spore Node, and Spawn, while only taking something like 70 casualties in return. We were playing ITC Mission 4, or the Scouring. I got the Scouring, he won Maelstrom, and I got Linebreaker (go Trygon hole) and Big Game Hunter.

I've had similar experiences against Dark Eldar, and Space Marine Gladius armies, that they simply can't kill enough of me to win. It really takes some of the stress off a game. I wish Without Number was a basic army-wide special rule for Tyranids.

Nomeny wrote:
I wish Without Number was a basic army-wide special rule for Tyranids.

Many people, including myself, would be quickly investing into more Gaunts.

Actually, imagine if a similar rule is what the Tyranid Invasion Force Detachment bonus is. That would be sick.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
Read the old codex.
Modern Tyranids have lost a lot, including their defining trait: Adaptability.

Not completely true, each Tyranid codex is in general stronger than it's predecesor. The problem is that the power creep in the other factions has been insane.

I disagree. The 6th edition codex nerfed the Swarmlord extremely hard. They also removed any option as to which Psychic power tree you could take. And they made Synapse actually detrimental to the army. Did I mention they also removed the Doom of Malantai? They also initially removed their drop pods (though they added them back, thank god).

That's why I said in general. The Flyrant was buffed, almost all our monster creatures were buffed and gaunts got cheaper. When comparing both codices in the competitive scene, the 6th edition did better (some tournaments allowed Tyranid players to chose which Codex they wanted to use.)

 Tyran wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
Read the old codex.
Modern Tyranids have lost a lot, including their defining trait: Adaptability.

Not completely true, each Tyranid codex is in general stronger than it's predecesor. The problem is that the power creep in the other factions has been insane.

I disagree. The 6th edition codex nerfed the Swarmlord extremely hard. They also removed any option as to which Psychic power tree you could take. And they made Synapse actually detrimental to the army. Did I mention they also removed the Doom of Malantai? They also initially removed their drop pods (though they added them back, thank god).

That's why I said in general. The Flyrant was buffed, almost all our monster creatures were buffed and gaunts got cheaper. When comparing both codices in the competitive scene, the 6th edition did better (some tournaments allowed Tyranid players to chose which Codex they wanted to use.)

Even if gaunts got cheaper and our MCs were buffed, the overall army functionality was nerfed. Synapse use to not be a big deal. Now it is. You also had access to better powers, so Psychic goodness could really help out. Just because in the competitive scene the "Codex: Flyrant" lists faired better doesn't mean the whole codex as a whole was better.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
Read the old codex.
Modern Tyranids have lost a lot, including their defining trait: Adaptability.

Not completely true, each Tyranid codex is in general stronger than it's predecesor. The problem is that the power creep in the other factions has been insane.

I disagree. The 6th edition codex nerfed the Swarmlord extremely hard. They also removed any option as to which Psychic power tree you could take. And they made Synapse actually detrimental to the army. Did I mention they also removed the Doom of Malantai? They also initially removed their drop pods (though they added them back, thank god).

That's why I said in general. The Flyrant was buffed, almost all our monster creatures were buffed and gaunts got cheaper. When comparing both codices in the competitive scene, the 6th edition did better (some tournaments allowed Tyranid players to chose which Codex they wanted to use.)

Even if gaunts got cheaper and our MCs were buffed, the overall army functionality was nerfed. Synapse use to not be a big of a deal. Now it is. You also had access to better powers, so Psychic goodness could really help out. Just because in the competitive scene the "Codex: Flyrant" lists faired better doesn't mean the whole codex as a whole was better.

Synapse always was a big deal, with most of our creatures lacking fearless by themselves and having gakky LD. The problem is that 6th edition made it even more punishing.

Also overall army functionality? 5th edition was Codex: Tervigon, and it had even shittier powers than current codex.

 Tyran wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
Read the old codex.
Modern Tyranids have lost a lot, including their defining trait: Adaptability.

Not completely true, each Tyranid codex is in general stronger than it's predecesor. The problem is that the power creep in the other factions has been insane.

I disagree. The 6th edition codex nerfed the Swarmlord extremely hard. They also removed any option as to which Psychic power tree you could take. And they made Synapse actually detrimental to the army. Did I mention they also removed the Doom of Malantai? They also initially removed their drop pods (though they added them back, thank god).

That's why I said in general. The Flyrant was buffed, almost all our monster creatures were buffed and gaunts got cheaper. When comparing both codices in the competitive scene, the 6th edition did better (some tournaments allowed Tyranid players to chose which Codex they wanted to use.)

Even if gaunts got cheaper and our MCs were buffed, the overall army functionality was nerfed. Synapse use to not be a big of a deal. Now it is. You also had access to better powers, so Psychic goodness could really help out. Just because in the competitive scene the "Codex: Flyrant" lists faired better doesn't mean the whole codex as a whole was better.

Synapse always was a big deal, with most of our creatures lacking fearless by themselves and having gakky LD. The problem is that 6th edition made it even more punishing.

Also overall army functionality? 5th edition was Codex: Tervigon, and it had even shittier powers than current codex.

Biomancy, though. That was kind of a big deal.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
Read the old codex.
Modern Tyranids have lost a lot, including their defining trait: Adaptability.

Not completely true, each Tyranid codex is in general stronger than it's predecesor. The problem is that the power creep in the other factions has been insane.

I disagree. The 6th edition codex nerfed the Swarmlord extremely hard. They also removed any option as to which Psychic power tree you could take. And they made Synapse actually detrimental to the army. Did I mention they also removed the Doom of Malantai? They also initially removed their drop pods (though they added them back, thank god).

That's why I said in general. The Flyrant was buffed, almost all our monster creatures were buffed and gaunts got cheaper. When comparing both codices in the competitive scene, the 6th edition did better (some tournaments allowed Tyranid players to chose which Codex they wanted to use.)

Even if gaunts got cheaper and our MCs were buffed, the overall army functionality was nerfed. Synapse use to not be a big of a deal. Now it is. You also had access to better powers, so Psychic goodness could really help out. Just because in the competitive scene the "Codex: Flyrant" lists faired better doesn't mean the whole codex as a whole was better.

Synapse always was a big deal, with most of our creatures lacking fearless by themselves and having gakky LD. The problem is that 6th edition made it even more punishing.

Also overall army functionality? 5th edition was Codex: Tervigon, and it had even shittier powers than current codex.

Biomancy, though. That was kind of a big deal.

To put on what, a Flyrant? the problem we have isn't gakky powers, but gakky casters. Biomancy was used to buff Flyrants, and while 6th ed codex took away biomancy, it buffed Flyrants even more.

I'm not saying that the current codex is good, it isn't, it is crap. But there wasn't some lost golden days. 5th edition was as bad if not worse.

 Tyran wrote:

I'm not saying that the current codex is good, it isn't, it is crap. But there wasn't some lost golden days. 5th edition was as bad if not worse.

Well everyone I talk to said that the 5th edition book had quite a few cheesy builds, most notably the Tervigon spam and T9 Swarmlords.

I'm actually in the boat where I think it makes sense Tyranids would only roll on their own table.

The problem comes from their table sucking some massive donkey balls. It needs fixing.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I'm actually in the boat where I think it makes sense Tyranids would only roll on their own table.

The problem comes from their table sucking some massive donkey balls. It needs fixing.

Well, that, and the fact that Shadow in the Warp doesn't do anything, and they have nothing to help with casting powers. Also, yes, they are technically "psykers", but the work different from the Warp, but have nothing to show for it. I'm going off on a tangent here, but you get my gist.

All in all, I'm just disappointed with Tyranids "psychically".

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
You're pretty unfriendly, I must say.

No one here is trying to do anything other than help you.

Like I said earlier, you don't want to listen, that is not our fault. I'm not the only person here who is mentioning to take units that can actually hurt flyers.

Not dealing with stupid logic isn't being unfriendly.

What logic of mine was stupid...

When I posted what you quoted, it was meant for the OP.

 krodarklorr wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I'm actually in the boat where I think it makes sense Tyranids would only roll on their own table.

The problem comes from their table sucking some massive donkey balls. It needs fixing.

Well, that, and the fact that Shadow in the Warp doesn't do anything, and they have nothing to help with casting powers. Also, yes, they are technically "psykers", but the work different from the Warp, but have nothing to show for it. I'm going off on a tangent here, but you get my gist.

All in all, I'm just disappointed with Tyranids "psychically".

I hate that people keep saying Shadow of the Warp doesn't do anything. Its a -4LD debuff to psykers. Thats awesome. I can't tell you how many times i've seen a psychic MC blow up to psychic scream because they Shadow of the warp basically did +4 wounds to them or how crappy IG units failed morale because their SM leader was LD6

 CrownAxe wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I'm actually in the boat where I think it makes sense Tyranids would only roll on their own table.

The problem comes from their table sucking some massive donkey balls. It needs fixing.

Well, that, and the fact that Shadow in the Warp doesn't do anything, and they have nothing to help with casting powers. Also, yes, they are technically "psykers", but the work different from the Warp, but have nothing to show for it. I'm going off on a tangent here, but you get my gist.

All in all, I'm just disappointed with Tyranids "psychically".

I hate that people keep saying Shadow of the Warp doesn't do anything. Its a -4LD debuff to psykers. Thats awesome. I can't tell you how many times i've seen a psychic MC blow up to psychic scream because they Shadow of the warp basically did +4 wounds to them or how crappy IG units failed morale because their SM leader was LD6

-3*

I'm not saying it's completely useless, but it hasn't made a difference in any game at all since 7th edition.

 labmouse42 wrote:

Traditio wrote:
That would be like saying that the Elder codex would be underpowered if they only had access to wraithknights and scatter bikes.

That's a rather poor comparison. The thing about the Eldar codex is that most of the units there are at least decent.
If you picked a unit, such as dark reapers, out of the codex and put them into another codex they would be in the list of 'autotake'.
Sure, there are a few duds like storm guardians, but most of the units are good. Hell, I've even made good use from shining spears in the codex.

If a codex only has 2-3 good units, then it's options are much more limited.

You really don't get counter-factuals, huh?