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Traditio wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
My fragnoughts pay a visit to the venomthropes. "Nice cover bonus, bro". Or, sternguard vets with ignore cover ammo. It has also come to my attention that many MCs really dont' want to fight it out with a WS 5, AV 13 walker.

Under what circumstances do the "primal instincts" or whatever rule of the tyrranids kick in?

Also, how do I strip the fearless bonus. What do I need to kill?

You get rid of fearless by killing the units with the synapse rule (it makes a bubble of fearless)

Flyrants have the synapse rule so you need to kill them to get rid of it.

Traditio wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
My fragnoughts pay a visit to the venomthropes. "Nice cover bonus, bro". Or, sternguard vets with ignore cover ammo. It has also come to my attention that many MCs really dont' want to fight it out with a WS 5, AV 13 walker.

Under what circumstances do the "primal instincts" or whatever rule of the tyrranids kick in?

Also, how do I strip the fearless bonus. What do I need to kill?

You want to kill the hive tyrants if you can - the next bet target is going to be his synapse creatures - they give fearless to everything in range.

Xenomancers wrote:You want to kill the hive tyrants if you can - the next bet target is going to be his synapse creatures - they give fearless to everything in range.

Which ones are those?

Smaller bugs don't stack up well to meqs, really. I know I bang on meqs a lot, but this is something they are actually good at.

What is your loadout for honor guard? Devs? Can you take anything we tell you to?

What does your transport situation look like? Do you have none?

Sternguard are probably the best unit you have, imo. They have special ammo that counters many of what the nids bring. I would try to deploy them so that they kill the Flyrants first, although this will be difficult.

In order of what to target, list matters. Generally its

1) Flyrant. The most firepower. Sternguard are your best bet unless you have more options than you've listed. Try to ground them then wipe them out in CC with the ASM/honor guard.

2) Venomthropes. You must kill these or the ground army gets cover saves and becomes tough to remove. If the sternguard aren't too busy, they counter these really well. Drop podding marines or devs with strong weapons can in a pinch.

3) Dakkafex. Devs should target these unless targeting above.

4) The rest.


Sadly, you have some of the worst units in the dex and are lacking all of the good ones.

Traditio wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
As Martel said, remove their cover saves.

And I do this by killing the venomthropes?

Yes, it will drastically reduce their cover saves

Use your Tacs and AM to take out the smaller bugs and take objectives.

How are the smaller bugs in close combat? Is charging a good idea, or no?

Shoot with the Tacs, Shoot and Charge with the AM.

With 3 units of Sternguard, drop pods are a must and can easily deal with a Flyrant first turn before it gets off the ground (providing you get the first turn that is).

Grav-cents are phenomenal against MC heavy armies. If you are playing Codex Marines, they are too good a counter for a lot of the problem units out there. They are expensive though, and tend to see reduced returns against less heavily armoured infantry.

I don't exactly see taking AA units as "list tailoring" because flyers and skimmers feature so heavily in most armies. That's like saying taking a lascannon is list tailoring because its mainly useful against high AV and T units.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
With 3 units of Sternguard, drop pods are a must and can easily deal with a Flyrant first turn before it gets off the ground (providing you get the first turn that is).

Grav-cents are phenomenal against MC heavy armies. If you are playing Codex Marines, they are too good a counter for a lot of the problem units out there. They are expensive though, and tend to see reduced returns against less heavily armoured infantry.

I don't exactly see taking AA units as "list tailoring" because flyers and skimmers feature so heavily in most armies. That's like saying taking a lascannon is list tailoring because its mainly useful against high AV and T units.

Only a little tailoring, really. I prefer to max firepower vs nightmare threats like WKs and DKs. A flyer is usually pretty limited in how much damage it can cause.

The fact that they get to hit skimmers as well means my Dunecrawler usually is not lacking for targets and with his rate of fire and formation bonus means that even with just snap shots I can still put holes in things.

Considering that half the armies in the game have most if not all skimmer vehicles.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
The fact that they get to hit skimmers as well means my Dunecrawler usually is not lacking for targets and with his rate of fire and formation bonus means that even with just snap shots I can still put holes in things.

Considering that half the armies in the game have most if not all skimmer vehicles.

That does help skyfire a lot. Personally, I'd love to field Stalker tanks, as they are pretty hard to take out and can score backfield objectives while pouring out fire.

Traditio wrote:
I was playing a game against the Tyrranids yesterday, and here's what I experienced:

Over 90 models on the table.
Flying monstrous creatures that could fire a dozen S6 BS 4 shots every turn...
...which could also generate warp charges and use psyker abilities like...psychic scream...
...which combined with the fact that it was used by a flyer, pretty much meant that it could go right into the middle of my units and mess things up.

So.

Why are the Tyrranids underpowered again?

If you are struggling against Tyranids, perhaps you should try something just a hair easier . . . like Farmville . . . or Candy Crush . . .

To someone who is not fielding optimal combos, Tyranids could be a problem. You are beating Nids with tac marines, that's for sure.

Assuming he's bringing lots of gaunts I'd atleast be happy my bolters have something worth shooting for once.

There is not a single unit in the tyranid codex that a basic lasgun cannot damage.
I don't think you can say that about any other army in the game.

Arson Fire wrote:
There is not a single unit in the tyranid codex that a basic lasgun cannot damage.
I don't think you can say that about any other army in the game.

Legion of the Damned

 CrownAxe wrote:

Arson Fire wrote:
There is not a single unit in the tyranid codex that a basic lasgun cannot damage.
I don't think you can say that about any other army in the game.

Legion of the Damned

Traditio wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Again you can't complain something is to powerful if your going to take things that are not good at fighting flyers, have us point out that if you took unit xyz that you would be good. Taking a unit with skyfire is not list tailoring in this day and age since every single codex has access to flyers.

If your dead set on never taking anything but one combination of units then your going to run into hard counters.

You and the others are basically making my point for me:

If I specifically have to tailor my list to deal with whatever it is that you are bringing, and you have no other tactical advice than "change your list," then whatever it is that you are bringing is OP.

You have seriously misunderstood the nature of 40k's list building.
Including one unit of AA isn't list tailoring, it's covering your bases.

What if his opponent brings tanks, but bringing lascannons and melta guns are list tailoring?

I remember last time I played Tyranids, I had imperial guard, and the game went something like:

"Alright, you blokes with the Lascannons! Fire on my target: the squiddly bug in there you can't see!"

"Sir yes sir"

"Ok, now we'll take all these blast templates, and we'll put them over in that direction!"

By end of turn 2, his 2000 point army was two flyrants, and all I had to do was sit on objectives and let them flutter around popping the odd tank. Flyrants are mean but they've got little board control, and GW likes giving Nids real survivability as much as they like giving it to orks. Ignores cover suddenly being handed out like candy to everyone really hurts Nids.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CrownAxe wrote:

Arson Fire wrote:
There is not a single unit in the tyranid codex that a basic lasgun cannot damage.
I don't think you can say that about any other army in the game.

Legion of the Damned

Technically, can't you not wound anything tougher than S6 with a lasgun? Or am I wrong and strength v toughness never falls off?

In which case, Cult Mech can also be damaged in such a way, no vehicles.

Traditio wrote:
That would be like saying that the Elder codex would be underpowered if they only had access to wraithknights and scatter bikes.

That's a rather poor comparison. The thing about the Eldar codex is that most of the units there are at least decent.
If you picked a unit, such as dark reapers, out of the codex and put them into another codex they would be in the list of 'autotake'.
Sure, there are a few duds like storm guardians, but most of the units are good. Hell, I've even made good use from shining spears in the codex.

If a codex only has 2-3 good units, then it's options are much more limited.

This thread is still going?

Oh geez...

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
Smash attacks are a joke now. One str10? As if. If you think one str10 attack that has to roll to hit and trades all other attacks away is even worth thinking about, I can't help you. Smash will almost never be used and will be useless 99% of the time it is used. Be realistic.

If you're relying on a smash attack, you're gonna have a bad time.

A few weeks ago, I was at a local GW store. A guy's talos was in assault with a BA dread. He kept swinging the STR 7 attacks at the dread, scratching it once before the dread killed the talos.

I kept shaking my head, as this would have been a perfect opportunity to smash. It would have given a 8/9 chance of penetrating with an AP2 attack.

 labmouse42 wrote:

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
Smash attacks are a joke now. One str10? As if. If you think one str10 attack that has to roll to hit and trades all other attacks away is even worth thinking about, I can't help you. Smash will almost never be used and will be useless 99% of the time it is used. Be realistic.

If you're relying on a smash attack, you're gonna have a bad time.

A few weeks ago, I was at a local GW store. A guy's talos was in assault with a BA dread. He kept swinging the STR 7 attacks at the dread, scratching it once before the dread killed the talos.

I kept shaking my head, as this would have been a perfect opportunity to smash. It would have given a 8/9 chance of penetrating with an AP2 attack.

Though this may be true, imagine if Smashing was your main way of dealing with vehicles outside of the Haywire Template that only 3 units can take (2 of which are rather slow and would require a Tyrannocyte to get there).

Yeah, thankfully Flyrants are mobile enough for rrsr armour with brainleech worms and Carnifexes are naturally S9 with d3 how.

As for Talos and BA, well Talos has a decent chance of doing more damage with its regular attacks, unless it was a furioso in which case that was just bad luck

A wild Imperial/wraithknight appears... nid army does what now?

 Torus wrote:
A wild Imperial/wraithknight appears... nid army does what now?

The Tyranids attempt to flee!....

You fail to get away!

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Torus wrote:
A wild Imperial/wraithknight appears... nid army does what now?

The Tyranids attempt to flee!....

You fail to get away!

Wraithnight uses stomp... It's super effective

 labmouse42 wrote:

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
Smash attacks are a joke now. One str10? As if. If you think one str10 attack that has to roll to hit and trades all other attacks away is even worth thinking about, I can't help you. Smash will almost never be used and will be useless 99% of the time it is used. Be realistic.

If you're relying on a smash attack, you're gonna have a bad time.

A few weeks ago, I was at a local GW store. A guy's talos was in assault with a BA dread. He kept swinging the STR 7 attacks at the dread, scratching it once before the dread killed the talos.

I kept shaking my head, as this would have been a perfect opportunity to smash. It would have given a 8/9 chance of penetrating with an AP2 attack.

In that exact instance, I probably would have smashed. But I also would have simply attempted to keep that particular Mc out of combat with something it needs to smash to damage anyways.

I know it's not completely useless, in the exact situation you're mentioning it's pretty much all you have. My point was, that doesn't make it a sound tactic or really anything to add to the list of options for dealing with armour.

Back when you got more attacks, smash was quite useful. I'm just saying that for me, it isn't a consideration for me when determining their power level anymore. I play daemons and the times I've used smash since 7th dropped I can count on one hand. Even if I attempted to use it as a method of destroying tanks my codex would still have slight trouble with armour, and i can field just about as many mc's as nids.

 Torus wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Torus wrote:
A wild Imperial/wraithknight appears... nid army does what now?

The Tyranids attempt to flee!....

You fail to get away!

Wraithnight uses stomp... It's super effective

It's a one-hit K.O!

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Torus wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Torus wrote:
A wild Imperial/wraithknight appears... nid army does what now?

The Tyranids attempt to flee!....

You fail to get away!

Wraithnight uses stomp... It's super effective

It's a one-hit K.O!

Nid Player is out of usable models...

Nid Player scurried to a GW center, dumping his army on Ebay, he buys anything other than Nids...