Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Xenomancers wrote:
@ master of ordinance
If you are having trouble with marines may I suggest a few things? I've had my arse handed to me so many times by IG I can't even count. LR executioner (IMO this is an auto include for IG - take at least 2 vs everyone 75% of the time you are playing an army that this thing absolutely murders). Then take a unit of 3 wyverns. The rest of your army should be infantry - with lots of plasma and melta. Vets/platoon - both good options. Take a unit of 30 conscripts with a commissar and a psyker fishing for 4+ invo save or invis to tie up a deathstar. You will win more than you lose with this list vs a marine army.

The executioner is a dead model. You will glance yourself to death in about three turns of shooting. You can not reroll the gets hot results with PE. It was a good model when people were playing it with PE allowing rerolls but now 5 gets hot rolls a turn is brutal.

Regarding this thread it's entirely whiney bullcrap the majority of angels of death is reprinted stuff that's been out for over 6months. You got new psychic powers and 30k dreads that any space marine chapter can use..... That's it... The rest is old reprinted crap.... And your whining about it... Seriously??

Executioners fired small blasts. I never found it that scary.

 Lord Corellia wrote:

 6^ wrote:
Alright dude, I don't need you to patronize me. I feel like I got tricked right now for buying this. I feel like a bought a supplement for an army I don't play. That's what I'm upset about.

Why didn't you have a flick through the book before you bought it? The 3rd edition Codex: Space Wolves had some Orks on the front cover, but I didn't just up and buy it for my Orks...

Besides which, you're making out like there is literally nothing new or usable for UM players which is just incorrect.

I saw a few pages, it looked interesting, I didn't have much time.
I feel like that comparison isn't fair at least it was titles Codex:Space Wolves. But anyways I've already conceded the point.
I've conceded that point too, Someone else asked me earlier what I was hoping to get out of this thread and the answer it turned out was reconciliation. I just like talking about warhammer really. I bought a product and wanted to talk about it. I was kind of hurt how this thread turned out though, with people attacking me personally instead of my opinion. For instance I feel like you are implying pretty heavily my stupidity when you talked about how you didn't buy codex space wolves for your ork army, but I did make that mistake by buying AoD for my ultramarine army.

 Lord Corellia wrote:

 6^ wrote:
Alright dude, I don't need you to patronize me. I feel like I got tricked right now for buying this. I feel like a bought a supplement for an army I don't play. That's what I'm upset about.

Why didn't you have a flick through the book before you bought it? The 3rd edition Codex: Space Wolves had some Orks on the front cover, but I didn't just up and buy it for my Orks...

Besides which, you're making out like there is literally nothing new or usable for UM players which is just incorrect.

Tbf, some stores do shrinkwrap them or otherwise frown on one for reading a book beforehand.
I don't think anyone's claiming that UM got nothing. They just got nothing of their own, and with the Gladius practically giving UM tactics anyways, there's even less reason to actually take them.

 6^ wrote:

 Lord Corellia wrote:

 6^ wrote:
Alright dude, I don't need you to patronize me. I feel like I got tricked right now for buying this. I feel like a bought a supplement for an army I don't play. That's what I'm upset about.

Why didn't you have a flick through the book before you bought it? The 3rd edition Codex: Space Wolves had some Orks on the front cover, but I didn't just up and buy it for my Orks...

Besides which, you're making out like there is literally nothing new or usable for UM players which is just incorrect.

I saw a few pages, it looked interesting, I didn't have much time.
I feel like that comparison isn't fair at least it was titles Codex:Space Wolves. But anyways I've already conceded the point.
I've conceded that point too, Someone else asked me earlier what I was hoping to get out of this thread and the answer it turned out was reconciliation. I just like talking about warhammer really. I bought a product and wanted to talk about it. I was kind of hurt how this thread turned out though, with people attacking me personally instead of my opinion. For instance I feel like you are implying pretty heavily my stupidity when you talked about how you didn't buy codex space wolves for your ork army, but I did make that mistake by buying AoD for my ultramarine army.

I'm really not trying to be an ass, but why don't you just return it? I mean was it really necessary to bring it to the forums in the form of "Why didn't my Space Marines get anything of our very own?" when there are probably a dozen other armies that would give up globs of content just to have the equivalent of what the Smurfs got in the original dex? On top of that you got access to 30k units and around 20 new formations on top of 4 psychic disciplines?

I really can't help but imagine a slave masters kid whining about not getting seconds while a dozen starving slaves just sigh and roll their eyes.

Dantes_Baals wrote:

 6^ wrote:

 Lord Corellia wrote:

 6^ wrote:
Alright dude, I don't need you to patronize me. I feel like I got tricked right now for buying this. I feel like a bought a supplement for an army I don't play. That's what I'm upset about.

Why didn't you have a flick through the book before you bought it? The 3rd edition Codex: Space Wolves had some Orks on the front cover, but I didn't just up and buy it for my Orks...

Besides which, you're making out like there is literally nothing new or usable for UM players which is just incorrect.

I saw a few pages, it looked interesting, I didn't have much time.
I feel like that comparison isn't fair at least it was titles Codex:Space Wolves. But anyways I've already conceded the point.
I've conceded that point too, Someone else asked me earlier what I was hoping to get out of this thread and the answer it turned out was reconciliation. I just like talking about warhammer really. I bought a product and wanted to talk about it. I was kind of hurt how this thread turned out though, with people attacking me personally instead of my opinion. For instance I feel like you are implying pretty heavily my stupidity when you talked about how you didn't buy codex space wolves for your ork army, but I did make that mistake by buying AoD for my ultramarine army.

I'm really not trying to be an ass, but why don't you just return it? I mean was it really necessary to bring it to the forums in the form of "Why didn't my Space Marines get anything of our very own?" when there are probably a dozen other armies that would give up globs of content just to have the equivalent of what the Smurfs got in the original dex? On top of that you got access to 30k units and around 20 new formations on top of 4 psychic disciplines?

I really can't help but imagine a slave masters kid whining about not getting seconds while a dozen starving slaves just sigh and roll their eyes.

Again, I'm just assuming on the OP's part, but at least from me, I want to make this clear:
I WANT EQUALITY FOR ALL FACTIONS.
Every codex should be playable with a multitude of possible army types, and there should not be an "auto-win" faction.

However, I can still think that and also point out that UM did not receive the same amount of stuff as other chapters got in the AoD book. Does anyone dispute the point that they did not receive exactly equal coverage?
For anyone saying that "UM shouldn't have anything special as they are the vanilla plain chapter" - maybe they should be plain. But they should be the best at being plain, and have bonuses when using the Gladius then? That would represent how they perfected the "standard" SM doctrine.

Saying that UM did not receive certain things =/= advocating poor army balance. You're being very hard on the OP.

Also, returning might not be a solution - the store own may have a no returns policy, or something along those lines. The OP could sell the book, but will not get their original price unless one of you fellows would refund them?

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Dantes_Baals wrote:

 6^ wrote:

 Lord Corellia wrote:

 6^ wrote:
Alright dude, I don't need you to patronize me. I feel like I got tricked right now for buying this. I feel like a bought a supplement for an army I don't play. That's what I'm upset about.

Why didn't you have a flick through the book before you bought it? The 3rd edition Codex: Space Wolves had some Orks on the front cover, but I didn't just up and buy it for my Orks...

Besides which, you're making out like there is literally nothing new or usable for UM players which is just incorrect.

I saw a few pages, it looked interesting, I didn't have much time.
I feel like that comparison isn't fair at least it was titles Codex:Space Wolves. But anyways I've already conceded the point.
I've conceded that point too, Someone else asked me earlier what I was hoping to get out of this thread and the answer it turned out was reconciliation. I just like talking about warhammer really. I bought a product and wanted to talk about it. I was kind of hurt how this thread turned out though, with people attacking me personally instead of my opinion. For instance I feel like you are implying pretty heavily my stupidity when you talked about how you didn't buy codex space wolves for your ork army, but I did make that mistake by buying AoD for my ultramarine army.

I'm really not trying to be an ass, but why don't you just return it? I mean was it really necessary to bring it to the forums in the form of "Why didn't my Space Marines get anything of our very own?" when there are probably a dozen other armies that would give up globs of content just to have the equivalent of what the Smurfs got in the original dex? On top of that you got access to 30k units and around 20 new formations on top of 4 psychic disciplines?

I really can't help but imagine a slave masters kid whining about not getting seconds while a dozen starving slaves just sigh and roll their eyes.

Again, I'm just assuming on the OP's part, but at least from me, I want to make this clear:
I WANT EQUALITY FOR ALL FACTIONS.
Every codex should be playable with a multitude of possible army types, and there should not be an "auto-win" faction.

However, I can still think that and also point out that UM did not receive the same amount of stuff as other chapters got in the AoD book. Does anyone dispute the point that they did not receive exactly equal coverage?
For anyone saying that "UM shouldn't have anything special as they are the vanilla plain chapter" - maybe they should be plain. But they should be the best at being plain, and have bonuses when using the Gladius then? That would represent how they perfected the "standard" SM doctrine.

Saying that UM did not receive certain things =/= advocating poor army balance. You're being very hard on the OP.

Also, returning might not be a solution - the store own may have a no returns policy, or something along those lines. The OP could sell the book, but will not get their original price unless one of you fellows would refund them?

Even if there is a no refunds policy, he can use at least 4/5th of the books content. It's not exactly like the man got cheated. And no one's disputing that UM didn't get anything chapter specific. Pretty sure that was agreed upon on page 1. This is page 4 and now we're telling master of ordinance how to better run his guard not beating a dead horse.

Dantes_Baals wrote:
Even if there is a no refunds policy, he can use at least 4/5th of the books content. It's not exactly like the man got cheated. And no one's disputing that UM didn't get anything chapter specific. Pretty sure that was agreed upon on page 1. This is page 4 and now we're telling master of ordinance how to better run his guard not beating a dead horse.

OP may not have the models to use some of the new formations, units, and powers (no Librarians, no BaC - because let's face it, the only reason the Cataphractii stuff exist is because of BaC and nothing else - or all models are already in a formation).

If OP expected UM specific stuff and didn't get any UM specific stuff, then actually - yeah, they did get cheated. Hell, if I was planning on getting the book in the first place, and I found out that everyone else got bonuses EXCEPT the UM, I'd feel cheated.

We can agree that UM didn't receive equal stuff compared to the other C:SM Chapters? So why didn't they? Is it fair that - SOLELY compared to the other C:SM chapters in the 7th Ed codex - they received less?

So, we're off topic then?

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Dantes_Baals wrote:
Even if there is a no refunds policy, he can use at least 4/5th of the books content. It's not exactly like the man got cheated. And no one's disputing that UM didn't get anything chapter specific. Pretty sure that was agreed upon on page 1. This is page 4 and now we're telling master of ordinance how to better run his guard not beating a dead horse.

OP may not have the models to use some of the new formations, units, and powers (no Librarians, no BaC - because let's face it, the only reason the Cataphractii stuff exist is because of BaC and nothing else - or all models are already in a formation).

If OP expected UM specific stuff and didn't get any UM specific stuff, then actually - yeah, they did get cheated. Hell, if I was planning on getting the book in the first place, and I found out that everyone else got bonuses EXCEPT the UM, I'd feel cheated.

We can agree that UM didn't receive equal stuff compared to the other C:SM Chapters? So why didn't they? Is it fair that - SOLELY compared to the other C:SM chapters in the 7th Ed codex - they received less?

So, we're off topic then?

No, I don't think it's fair. I don't think many rational people would argue it is. This is where we start to border on the equality argument. I expected a playable dex for my red marines, but I sure as hell didn't get one. Pretty sure that there are thousands of dakka members GW hoses quarterly and I rarely ever see a thread about "fairness" because they didn't get the content they/we wanted.

And yea, we've been off topic for a good while now.

Dantes_Baals wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Dantes_Baals wrote:
Even if there is a no refunds policy, he can use at least 4/5th of the books content. It's not exactly like the man got cheated. And no one's disputing that UM didn't get anything chapter specific. Pretty sure that was agreed upon on page 1. This is page 4 and now we're telling master of ordinance how to better run his guard not beating a dead horse.

OP may not have the models to use some of the new formations, units, and powers (no Librarians, no BaC - because let's face it, the only reason the Cataphractii stuff exist is because of BaC and nothing else - or all models are already in a formation).

If OP expected UM specific stuff and didn't get any UM specific stuff, then actually - yeah, they did get cheated. Hell, if I was planning on getting the book in the first place, and I found out that everyone else got bonuses EXCEPT the UM, I'd feel cheated.

We can agree that UM didn't receive equal stuff compared to the other C:SM Chapters? So why didn't they? Is it fair that - SOLELY compared to the other C:SM chapters in the 7th Ed codex - they received less?

So, we're off topic then?

No, I don't think it's fair. I don't think many rational people would argue it is. This is where we start to border on the equality argument. I expected a playable dex for my red marines, but I sure as hell didn't get one. Pretty sure that there are thousands of dakka members GW hoses quarterly and I rarely ever see a thread about "fairness" because they didn't get the content they/we wanted.

And yea, we've been off topic for a good while now.

And I'll happily agree that Blood Angels (and Grey Knights) both kinda got screwed.

Dantes_Baals wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Dantes_Baals wrote:
Even if there is a no refunds policy, he can use at least 4/5th of the books content. It's not exactly like the man got cheated. And no one's disputing that UM didn't get anything chapter specific. Pretty sure that was agreed upon on page 1. This is page 4 and now we're telling master of ordinance how to better run his guard not beating a dead horse.

OP may not have the models to use some of the new formations, units, and powers (no Librarians, no BaC - because let's face it, the only reason the Cataphractii stuff exist is because of BaC and nothing else - or all models are already in a formation).

If OP expected UM specific stuff and didn't get any UM specific stuff, then actually - yeah, they did get cheated. Hell, if I was planning on getting the book in the first place, and I found out that everyone else got bonuses EXCEPT the UM, I'd feel cheated.

We can agree that UM didn't receive equal stuff compared to the other C:SM Chapters? So why didn't they? Is it fair that - SOLELY compared to the other C:SM chapters in the 7th Ed codex - they received less?

So, we're off topic then?

No, I don't think it's fair. I don't think many rational people would argue it is. This is where we start to border on the equality argument. I expected a playable dex for my red marines, but I sure as hell didn't get one. Pretty sure that there are thousands of dakka members GW hoses quarterly and I rarely ever see a thread about "fairness" because they didn't get the content they/we wanted.

And I disagree with the bad treatment of certain codexes too. But I still maintain that I can still ask for stuff for a less unfortunate codex, even if someone has it worse. Saying I want X doesn't mean I don't want Y. Nor is it whinging - it's making a point. A valid point, as you said - "No, I don't think it's fair". Can I not think two things are unfair? Can I not want equality amongst ALL codexes, instead of just one?

As for the comment on other threads on "fairness", I only need to point at the BA and CSM players that flock to these threads to vent their (justified) anger about having bad codexes. There's enough comments about those codexes to make up several threads about it. This is the first (to my knowledge) thread about UM not having the same stuff in AoD. Hardly an unreasonable thing.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Dantes_Baals wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Dantes_Baals wrote:
Even if there is a no refunds policy, he can use at least 4/5th of the books content. It's not exactly like the man got cheated. And no one's disputing that UM didn't get anything chapter specific. Pretty sure that was agreed upon on page 1. This is page 4 and now we're telling master of ordinance how to better run his guard not beating a dead horse.

OP may not have the models to use some of the new formations, units, and powers (no Librarians, no BaC - because let's face it, the only reason the Cataphractii stuff exist is because of BaC and nothing else - or all models are already in a formation).

If OP expected UM specific stuff and didn't get any UM specific stuff, then actually - yeah, they did get cheated. Hell, if I was planning on getting the book in the first place, and I found out that everyone else got bonuses EXCEPT the UM, I'd feel cheated.

We can agree that UM didn't receive equal stuff compared to the other C:SM Chapters? So why didn't they? Is it fair that - SOLELY compared to the other C:SM chapters in the 7th Ed codex - they received less?

So, we're off topic then?

No, I don't think it's fair. I don't think many rational people would argue it is. This is where we start to border on the equality argument. I expected a playable dex for my red marines, but I sure as hell didn't get one. Pretty sure that there are thousands of dakka members GW hoses quarterly and I rarely ever see a thread about "fairness" because they didn't get the content they/we wanted.

And I disagree with the bad treatment of certain codexes too. But I still maintain that I can still ask for stuff for a less unfortunate codex, even if someone has it worse. Saying I want X doesn't mean I don't want Y. Nor is it whinging - it's making a point. A valid point, as you said - "No, I don't think it's fair". Can I not think two things are unfair? Can I not want equality amongst ALL codexes, instead of just one?

As for the comment on other threads on "fairness", I only need to point at the BA and CSM players that flock to these threads to vent their (justified) anger about having bad codexes. There's enough comments about those codexes to make up several threads about it. This is the first (to my knowledge) thread about UM not having the same stuff in AoD. Hardly an unreasonable thing.

I think something is getting lost in translation. We agree on all points. All I'm really saying is that this thread was unnecessary. As in stating the obvious unnecessary. Hence why it went OT so quickly. I mean if the OP wanted to vent about a product that cheated him, he could always drop a few tongue -in-cheek comments into threads that are on the same or very similar topic like everyone else does.

Ultramarine players complaining about their options!? Baaahahahahaha! You guys crack me up!

 Kavish wrote:
Ultramarine players complaining about their options!? Baaahahahahaha! You guys crack me up!

they get literally half the options of every other codex space marine chapter out there. I think it's fair to say "that kinda sucks"

BrianDavion wrote:

 Kavish wrote:
Ultramarine players complaining about their options!? Baaahahahahaha! You guys crack me up!

they get literally half the options of every other codex space marine chapter out there. I think it's fair to say "that kinda sucks"

Please tell me you are joking.

Dantes_Baals wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Kavish wrote:
Ultramarine players complaining about their options!? Baaahahahahaha! You guys crack me up!

they get literally half the options of every other codex space marine chapter out there. I think it's fair to say "that kinda sucks"

Please tell me you are joking.

nope, but I did somehow miss the word relics.
but yeah all UMs have going for em is special characters, and the only one I can see that's really all THAT standout is Tigeris.

BrianDavion wrote:

Dantes_Baals wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Kavish wrote:
Ultramarine players complaining about their options!? Baaahahahahaha! You guys crack me up!

they get literally half the options of every other codex space marine chapter out there. I think it's fair to say "that kinda sucks"

Please tell me you are joking.

nope, but I did somehow miss the word relics.
but yeah all UMs have going for em is special characters, and the only one I can see that's really all THAT standout is Tigeris.

As someone who owns and uses AoD pretty often, almost all the relics in the book are terrible. You really aren't missing anything there. Now I could definitely understand being frustrated by not getting your own decurion, but that's the only thing in the book (of substance ) that you're missing out on. UMs are the only chapter that can run 10th coy as a CAD. That's pretty huge as is the assortment of characters in the dex you guys get to choose from. Kantor is awesome, but I would definitely like the luxury of chosen which named characters I firld.

Martel732 wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
You can go that route with blob gayrd like 450 rending lasgun shots a turn? This hurts a lot actually.

Not really. That requires and investment of 185 points for the Infantry plus another 50 for a single ML 1 Primaris psyker, and given that you will want more than one bite at the cherry to have a chance of getting the rending power you will want him to be ML 2 costing another 25 points. And maybe a second psyker just to be sure, another 50 points.
So now we have a 310 point unit that, within 12" and assuming it passes its LD checks and the psykers get the right powers and they get them off, can put out 450 rending Lasgun shots.
Assuming your opponent lets it live long enough to make it to 12", after all it lacks the ability to take transports and is too large to take advantage of any cover and will be mown down by Bolters.
And assuming that your opponent does not just use a Precision Shot unit to kill the Officer.
Or the Psykers.

I really do not know why you Marine players seem to think that blobguard is a threat, in this age of powerhammer 40K it really is not.

Just because you can't pull it off, doesn't mean it's not a threat. The number of psykers you use is six. Or at minimum, four. It's not just about misfortune. It's about unit buffs hitting huge numbers of models on top of orders. If you have a perfect timing psyker, you can then use your order to get twin linked vs vehicles. Gladius is not known for psyker defense. This combo ends gladius shenanigans pretty quickly. Quit using overcosted Russ hulls and you'll have points for this.

"er and will be mown down by Bolters. "

Nothing gets mowed down by bolters, especially if it has a 4++ save. A full spread of 10 bolters in rapid fire range kills a massive six guardsmen in 5++ cover. The marines will NEVER win at that rate. This goes down to 4.5 guardsmen with a 4++ save. Do math. It works.

6 psykers? 6?!?!?!
Do you even know how many points worth of investment that is? Three hundred points. 300. In six models. Six ML one models. How the hell can you justify that?! Even four is 200 points woorth and really in all honesty gakky IG psykers are not worth that big an investment.
As for Russ hulls, well, where else am I supposed to turn too for my firepower? Lasguns are going to do diddly squat against most targets and have the awkward requirement of the firing model still being alive when they get within range. Sure, you can buff a blob with many psychic powers but by the time you have done so you have essentially invested 580 points into 250 bods, and you now have to keep them alive until they are within range.
Have fun with that one.

...I just realised why I hate Geokinesis.

Anyone play 5th ed. Warhammer?

Anyone remember High Magic with Assault of Stone? You know, that ridiculous spell that did an amazing amount of damage, was only available to the two best all-round armies in the game with some of the best casters in the game (High Elves and Lizardmen) and moved about terrain so could be used for dick moves...to the extent where TOs tended to houserule it to prevent that or deny that altogether?

That's exactly what Shifting Worldscape is.

It's 5th edition High Magic's Assault of Stone all over again.

 master of ordinance wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
You can go that route with blob gayrd like 450 rending lasgun shots a turn? This hurts a lot actually.

Not really. That requires and investment of 185 points for the Infantry plus another 50 for a single ML 1 Primaris psyker, and given that you will want more than one bite at the cherry to have a chance of getting the rending power you will want him to be ML 2 costing another 25 points. And maybe a second psyker just to be sure, another 50 points.
So now we have a 310 point unit that, within 12" and assuming it passes its LD checks and the psykers get the right powers and they get them off, can put out 450 rending Lasgun shots.
Assuming your opponent lets it live long enough to make it to 12", after all it lacks the ability to take transports and is too large to take advantage of any cover and will be mown down by Bolters.
And assuming that your opponent does not just use a Precision Shot unit to kill the Officer.
Or the Psykers.

I really do not know why you Marine players seem to think that blobguard is a threat, in this age of powerhammer 40K it really is not.

Just because you can't pull it off, doesn't mean it's not a threat. The number of psykers you use is six. Or at minimum, four. It's not just about misfortune. It's about unit buffs hitting huge numbers of models on top of orders. If you have a perfect timing psyker, you can then use your order to get twin linked vs vehicles. Gladius is not known for psyker defense. This combo ends gladius shenanigans pretty quickly. Quit using overcosted Russ hulls and you'll have points for this.

"er and will be mown down by Bolters. "

Nothing gets mowed down by bolters, especially if it has a 4++ save. A full spread of 10 bolters in rapid fire range kills a massive six guardsmen in 5++ cover. The marines will NEVER win at that rate. This goes down to 4.5 guardsmen with a 4++ save. Do math. It works.

6 psykers? 6?!?!?!
Do you even know how many points worth of investment that is? Three hundred points. 300. In six models. Six ML one models. How the hell can you justify that?! Even four is 200 points woorth and really in all honesty gakky IG psykers are not worth that big an investment.
As for Russ hulls, well, where else am I supposed to turn too for my firepower? Lasguns are going to do diddly squat against most targets and have the awkward requirement of the firing model still being alive when they get within range. Sure, you can buff a blob with many psychic powers but by the time you have done so you have essentially invested 580 points into 250 bods, and you now have to keep them alive until they are within range.
Have fun with that one.

You clearly haven't been paying attention. It's fine. Let's just drop it.

If you think Russ hulls have firepower, I don't know what to tell you. They are awful.

300pts isn't a lot to spend on Psykers.

- Psykana Division (8WC, Harnesses on 2+)
- Librarus Conclave w/ML2 (6WC, Harnesses on 2+)
- Cyclopia Cabal w/ML2 + Familiar (6WC, rerolls failed psychic tests)
- 2x Grey Knight Librarian, ML3, Domina Liber Daemonica (6WC, rerolls 1's on Sanctic)
- 2x ML3 Herald w/Paradox, Grimoire (6WC, Paradox)
- 2x Farseer, Jetbikes, Shard (6WC, perils manipulation)

Not quite sure what the problem is. Psychic Phase can win games. Even non-psychic armies will usually throw down 140pts for disruption using a Culexus.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Kavish wrote:
Ultramarine players complaining about their options!? Baaahahahahaha! You guys crack me up!

they get literally half the options of every other codex space marine chapter out there. I think it's fair to say "that kinda sucks"

BLACK TEMPLARS.

Seriously, have you even read the damn thread you're responding in? If you want something that "kinda sucks" take everything the Ultramarines got and then remove the Psychic disciplines good enough that people worry that some of them might break the game. That's what Black Templars got.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Kavish wrote:
Ultramarine players complaining about their options!? Baaahahahahaha! You guys crack me up!

they get literally half the options of every other codex space marine chapter out there. I think it's fair to say "that kinda sucks"

BLACK TEMPLARS.

Seriously, have you even read the damn thread you're responding in? If you want something that "kinda sucks" take everything the Ultramarines got and then remove the Psychic disciplines good enough that people worry that some of them might break the game. That's what Black Templars got.

yeah and I've been saying black templars deserve their own damn supplement since the news about the codex merger happened. black templars are especially screwed because the formations all assume a codex standard chapter, which the templars are NOT.

probably best if people dial it down a notch.

Thanks.

Out of everyone in Codex: Spess Mahreens its the Black Templar that got boned. Ultras have their special detachment in the base codex (Gladius). All space marines get new psychic powers which is a huge power boost for them (not that they needed it) so all the Astartes benefit from the new supplement....... except for the Black Templar who don't get a special detachment, still can't field crusader squads in any format outside of a CAD, still have the worst chapter tactics in the game, and their hatred of psykers means they don't benefit from the new psychic powers. The supplement gives Black Templar warlord trails (whoopty doo) and that's it. I am this salty over the treatment of the BT and I don't even play them.

Those Warlord Traits were already available from White Dwarf as well. Templars got Cataphractii and Contemptors. That's it.

Yoyoyo wrote:
300pts isn't a lot to spend on Psykers.

- Psykana Division (8WC, Harnesses on 2+)
- Librarus Conclave w/ML2 (6WC, Harnesses on 2+)
- Cyclopia Cabal w/ML2 + Familiar (6WC, rerolls failed psychic tests)
- 2x Grey Knight Librarian, ML3, Domina Liber Daemonica (6WC, rerolls 1's on Sanctic)
- 2x ML3 Herald w/Paradox, Grimoire (6WC, Paradox)
- 2x Farseer, Jetbikes, Shard (6WC, perils manipulation)

Not quite sure what the problem is. Psychic Phase can win games. Even non-psychic armies will usually throw down 140pts for disruption using a Culexus.

And out of those which ones are actually worth their points?

All of them.

 Vankraken wrote:
Out of everyone in Codex: Spess Mahreens its the Black Templar that got boned.

Agreed. BT lost out. As did UM. But BA have been boned more. If people call OP whiny for saying UM are disadvantaged, then why are BT not in the same position if BA are worst? Or, perhaps it's possible to think that multiple factions have been disadvantaged?

Ultras have their special detachment in the base codex (Gladius).

No. EVERY vanilla Chapter has the Gladius. It is not any more UM specific than it is to BT. BT can take the Gladius. IF, IH, WS, RG and everyone else has access to the Gladius AND their own unique formation. Not so for the BT and UM. So no - the Gladius is not the UM variant.

All space marines get new psychic powers which is a huge power boost for them (not that they needed it) so all the Astartes benefit from the new supplement....... except for the Black Templar who don't get a special detachment, still can't field crusader squads in any format outside of a CAD, still have the worst chapter tactics in the game, and their hatred of psykers means they don't benefit from the new psychic powers. The supplement gives Black Templar warlord trails (whoopty doo) and that's it. I am this salty over the treatment of the BT and I don't even play them.

Agreed on all fronts. The BT also lost out. The UM lost out too. As I said before, can I not think that MULTIPLE factions have lost out on stuff?
(Also, you forgot the oh-so valuable Cataphractii armour that the "UM are fine stop whinging" group are talking about. Shows how much they are valued.)

I'll also support the idea that BT should have their own supplement or codex, even more so than the BA, IMHO. I'm not saying how I feel about all marines being in a single codex (that's already a topic), but as far as I see, BT would deserve it lorewise far more than the BA.
So yes Van - I agree. BT lost out. So did the UM. So have the BA.

You can definitely find a better way to express your disagreement. Remember rule 1. motyak