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Am I missing something or did Ultramarine get boned in this supplement? It looks like the other chapters got a new strike force, with easy access to the new formations as auxiliary choices, warlord traits, and relics.

The cover has an Ultramarine on it I think I wasted my money.

 6^ wrote:
Am I missing something or did Ultramarine get boned in this supplement? It looks like the other chapters got a new strike force, with easy access to the new formations as auxiliary choices, warlord traits, and relics.

The cover has an Ultramarine on it I think I wasted my money.

Ultramarines didn't get boned. The other Chapters simply got some new toys.

Remember, kids... when you're used to privilege, equality feels like persecution.

This isn't really a YMDC question, so...off to 40K General we go!

And please, everyone remember - RULE #1.

Alright dude, I don't need you to patronize me. I feel like I got tricked right now for buying this. I feel like a bought a supplement for an army I don't play. That's what I'm upset about.

 6^ wrote:
Alright dude, I don't need you to patronize me. I feel like I got tricked right now for buying this. I feel like a bought a supplement for an army I don't play. That's what I'm upset about.

You can use any of the Formations in the book, you just can't use them as part of a Gladius Strike Force. The Anvil Strike Force can also be used by Ultramarines.

 6^ wrote:
Alright dude, I don't need you to patronize me. I feel like I got tricked right now for buying this. I feel like a bought a supplement for an army I don't play. That's what I'm upset about.

That's right! Ultramarines only got a metric fethton of new formations, rules for using 30k models in their 40k armies, and four new psychic disciplines. What a rip-off! /sarc

Us UM players have got plenty of stuff already, so us not getting a bunch of UM specific formations in the new supplement doesn't bother me at all. Getting to use Cataphractii Termies and Contemptor Dreads in 40k is enough for me.

Well I guess I need to go buy a bunch of land raiders in order to justify this purchase.

I can see where UM players are coming from. Everything in the Vanilla 'dex is open to all models with Chapter Tactics (save for the chapter specific Crusader Squad, Emperor's Champion and special characters). Ultramarines get a bunch of Special Characters in the base codex, of varying value (come on, when was Sicarius ever taken? The only competitive ones are Tigurius, Calgar, and maybe Telion and Chronus.

Then, fast forward to Angels of Death. Every other Chapter Tactic gets a specialised taskforce alongside the Gladius (which is basically UM tactics lite). UM don't.
Every other faction (to my knowledge) get Relics ALONGSIDE the Vanilla ones. Um get nothing.
All of the 30k stuff added on is also available to the other Chapters, and the psychic powers are available to everyone (save for the Templars)

I fail to see how you can say that "UM were treated like everyone else" when everyone else received Heresy Stuff/Psychic Powers +1.
Now, I'm not saying that, compared to other Factions, UM are now the worst. That would be unfair. What I, and the OP, are saying, is that compared to the other Vanilla Chapters, UM got left out because they are the most Vanilla of Vanilla.

UM aren't really boned, they still have the makings of one of the most powerful combinations with the Gladius. They still have access to every formation in Angels of Death, just not the detachments and the formations can't be used to fill the requirements of the Gladius.

That being said, I wish they had access to all of the formations in the Gladius. They are the quintessential masters of the Codex Astartes.

You're failing to see that Ultramarines are THE codex chapter which defines what a codex chapter is. The Gladius Strike Force is the building block that all of the other Chapters have tweaked over the millennia to suit their tactics and background.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
UM aren't really boned, they still have the makings of one of the most powerful combinations with the Gladius. They still have access to every formation in Angels of Death, just not the detachments and the formations can't be used to fill the requirements of the Gladius.

That being said, I wish they had access to all of the formations in the Gladius. They are the quintessential masters of the Codex Astartes.

I think that EVERYONE should have gotten access to them. Different companies might have different tactics, or a Chapter's heritage might not reflect their combat style.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ghaz wrote:
You're failing to see that Ultramarines are THE codex chapter which defines what a codex chapter is. The Gladius Strike Force is the building block that all of the other Chapters have tweaked over the millennia to suit their tactics and background.

So if the UM are that good with the codex, why are they not given a buff when using their own design? Why can every other chapter use the Gladius just as proficiently?

 EnTyme wrote:

 6^ wrote:
Alright dude, I don't need you to patronize me. I feel like I got tricked right now for buying this. I feel like a bought a supplement for an army I don't play. That's what I'm upset about.

That's right! Ultramarines only got a metric fethton of new formations, rules for using 30k models in their 40k armies, and four new psychic disciplines. What a rip-off! /sarc

What new formations? There weren't any new formations in AoD.

Everyone does have access to those formations. They just can't take them as their Core or Aux formations for their specific Strike Forces. And since most of the non-Gladius Detachments gain next to nothing from two cores, there is a lot of room, pointswise, to use still use the "banned" formations.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Everyone does have access to those formations. They just can't take them as their Core or Aux formations for their specific Strike Forces. And since most of the non-Gladius Detachments gain next to nothing from two cores, there is a lot of room, pointswise, to use still use the "banned" formations.

So if other factions gain nothing from having the altered Gladius - why does it exist? If this is so meaningless, why can the UM not use it?

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:

 6^ wrote:
Alright dude, I don't need you to patronize me. I feel like I got tricked right now for buying this. I feel like a bought a supplement for an army I don't play. That's what I'm upset about.

That's right! Ultramarines only got a metric fethton of new formations, rules for using 30k models in their 40k armies, and four new psychic disciplines. What a rip-off! /sarc

What new formations? There weren't any new formations in AoD.

Yes there are. Read the book. Granted several of them come from kauyon, but there are several in there that any codex marine chapter can use individually.

Ultras also have access to the psychic powers, the 30k units, and armoured strike force. To say they got nothing is being less than truthful.

 niv-mizzet wrote:

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:

 6^ wrote:
Alright dude, I don't need you to patronize me. I feel like I got tricked right now for buying this. I feel like a bought a supplement for an army I don't play. That's what I'm upset about.

That's right! Ultramarines only got a metric fethton of new formations, rules for using 30k models in their 40k armies, and four new psychic disciplines. What a rip-off! /sarc

What new formations? There weren't any new formations in AoD.

Yes there are. Read the book. Granted several of them come from kauyon, but there are several in there that any codex marine chapter can use individually.

Ultras also have access to the psychic powers, the 30k units, and armoured strike force. To say they got nothing is being less than truthful.

No, there are no new formations - they've all been available elsewhere previously.

 6^ wrote:
Am I missing something or did Ultramarine get boned in this supplement?

You've already got your own codex, let the little guys have some fun.

And don't forget you got cataphractii and contemptor rules, and I'm pretty sure any chapter may use those formations in there.

I can see why BA might not field a gladius, but give us something that's remotely as good. It doesn't even have to be quite as good.

Martel732 wrote:
I can see why BA might not field a gladius, but give us something that's remotely as good. It doesn't even have to be quite as good.

Must every marine thread get the comment "but blood angels are worse"?

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 niv-mizzet wrote:

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:

 6^ wrote:
Alright dude, I don't need you to patronize me. I feel like I got tricked right now for buying this. I feel like a bought a supplement for an army I don't play. That's what I'm upset about.

That's right! Ultramarines only got a metric fethton of new formations, rules for using 30k models in their 40k armies, and four new psychic disciplines. What a rip-off! /sarc

What new formations? There weren't any new formations in AoD.

Yes there are. Read the book. Granted several of them come from kauyon, but there are several in there that any codex marine chapter can use individually.

Ultras also have access to the psychic powers, the 30k units, and armoured strike force. To say they got nothing is being less than truthful.

No, there are no new formations - they've all been available elsewhere previously.

They are new to anyone who didn't buy warzone kauyon and/or the limited edition sky hammer annihilation force. I certainly didn't, so they're new for me.

 #1ShieldBrother3++ wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
I can see why BA might not field a gladius, but give us something that's remotely as good. It doesn't even have to be quite as good.

Must every marine thread get the comment "but blood angels are worse"?

You even get this kind of things in Background so yes.

 #1ShieldBrother3++ wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
I can see why BA might not field a gladius, but give us something that's remotely as good. It doesn't even have to be quite as good.

Must every marine thread get the comment "but blood angels are worse"?

It's not even just the Marine threads...

 General Kroll wrote:

 #1ShieldBrother3++ wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
I can see why BA might not field a gladius, but give us something that's remotely as good. It doesn't even have to be quite as good.

Must every marine thread get the comment "but blood angels are worse"?

It's not even just the Marine threads...

But it's worse in the Blood Angel threads.

 #1ShieldBrother3++ wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
I can see why BA might not field a gladius, but give us something that's remotely as good. It doesn't even have to be quite as good.

Must every marine thread get the comment "but blood angels are worse"?

Yes. It's like how all CSM threads devolve into "bash the Loyalists and their player base". It's just how it is.

*Looks into thread. Reads about Ultramarine player complaining that they didn't get even more shiny formations and toys. Shakes head sadly.*

Ultramarines have more special characters in comparison to any other CSM chapter - Calgar, Tiberius, Sicarius, Telion and Chronus - all contained within the core book. They're widely acknowledged as the Poster Boys - to such an extent that not only do they have more characters - but these characters are regarded as being better than other chapter equivalents and it has been joked that C:SM is Codex Ultramarines.

Angels of Death is a supplement that expands on the OTHER chapters who merely get a mention in the main book so that they don't feel completely shafted.

And...you're complaining Ultramarines didn't get more toys?

You got the disciplines (to use on your superior psyker), you got more formations and you got another decurion detachment as well as 3 'new' units.

You know the reason every Marine thread gets 'But Blood Angels are worse?'

Because they are. They suffer from a change in codex direction taking place just after their codex - no fancy decurions or formations for them, save the bandaid formations in Shield of Baal.

But yeah, seeing a UM player complaining they didn't get (even more) shiny toys is kind of salt in the wound for Blood Angels who missed the fancy Decurion and Formation train.

And a red rag to CSM players who basically got to watch Loyallist marines get buffed beyond them twice.

 #1ShieldBrother3++ wrote:

 6^ wrote:
Am I missing something or did Ultramarine get boned in this supplement?

You've already got your own codex, let the little guys have some fun.

And don't forget you got cataphractii and contemptor rules, and I'm pretty sure any chapter may use those formations in there.

In my humble opinion, the Ultramarines are actually the worst chapter to use out of the codex, the only reason anyone does was to take Tigurius and dev cents with grav. I feel the problem is compounded by AoD bolstering every other chapter further with a choice of an additional strike force (that are all excellent, IMO) in addition to the Gladius Strike force and technically the anvil strike force or whatever it is.

I play them because I've always played them, and read the books, and painted them, and well that's the chapter I identified with, so I stand by them. In truth I really like every chapter, I've even come around on Space Wolves. I am so happy to see them all finaly being fleshed out more and more over the past few years. I loved reading in AoD all about the organization of all these chapters, all their captains names and how their companies are comprised. I just feel left out, I wish I had the freedom to take the new formations as auxiliary choices a spart of a detachment because a lot of them seem fun to try. I'll have to either use them as separate formation detachments in huge games (like 2,500+ points) or use a combined arms detachment and sacrifice my battle demi-company.

Youre right about the 30k stuff, I do have access. I will never ever use them just like I wont ever use grav guns or centurians. but that doesn't mean I didn't get them. The psychic powers are pretty sweet, and the missions seem fun too, im looking forward to trying 'Here we shall die'

Translation:
"Waa, muh bwue marinez dont get all da op as feth gak now, just most of it"

This is turning into a "whose the most bitter" contest now.

 master of ordinance wrote:
Translation:
"Waa, muh bwue marinez dont get all da op as feth gak now, just most of it"

You don't know me, you don't know my style of play. I think it's unfair for you to make that criticism. I play for fluff not for power FYI.

@pm713 I think that the ultramarines are pretty unpopular with a lot of the fan-base so I'm not really expecting a lot of commiseration