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hobojebus wrote:
Let's not forget GW goes out of their way to destroy independent stores by deliberately delaying deliveries while their own stores have the item day one.

No they don't, do they stock their own stores first yes as does every other company in the world. Saying they deliberately delay orders is nonsense.

 Rolsheen wrote:
No they don't, do they stock their own stores first yes as does every other company in the world. Saying they deliberately delay orders is nonsense.

Obviously there's no proof (or GW would be in some serious legal trouble), but there's a lot of anecdotal evidence that GW has done exactly that. GW opens a store in the same area as successful independent stores, and suddenly the independent stores have trouble getting inventory even when there's no apparent supply problem for stores in general. The only real question is whether GW still does this, as most of the stories seem to be years in the past.

Nowadays they supply independent stores until they've developed a large community then move in only once it's a sure thing.

No less predatory than in the 90's just a tad smarter about it.

Meh- around here, GW stores are like every other store except a bit less friendly and helpful.

I'd say it is best to support where you play, but don't feel too obligated.

Remember, it is their job to provide incentives to spend your money there, not the other way around.

"Wrong?"...meh. That can be debated until the cows come home and even then there will always be two sides to the debate left standing.
I will just say that 10% isn't much of a discount. Frankly, it's not something that even pops up on my radar. You can get 20% off, or better, just about everywhere on the web, Ebay, Dakka Swap Shop, etc. so is all I have to say to that offer.
Back OT, with my opinion of said FLGS discount being that it's not worth the time and GW being a center for the exclusive enjoyment and support of tabletop gaming, hobbying and camaraderie for only 10% more, I don't think there's a debate. Support where you play. If funds are that tight, sure, I understand, but back to my original comment that you can do better than 10%.

It's wrong. Your local GW runs off of its customers. Every purchase you make online or at some next store hurts your local GW. If it wasn't for your money, there would be no free painting or gaming tables for you to use and no Games Workshop for you to visit.

123ply wrote:
It's wrong. Your local GW runs off of its customers. Every purchase you make online or at some next store hurts your local GW. If it wasn't for your money, there would be no free painting or gaming tables for you to use and no Games Workshop for you to visit.

Then maybe GW should think about offering a 10% discount to compete with the local independent store instead of asking for charity donations from its customers.

(Plus, see earlier comments about how GW stores going out of business is a good thing for the community.)

 Peregrine wrote:

 Rolsheen wrote:
No they don't, do they stock their own stores first yes as does every other company in the world. Saying they deliberately delay orders is nonsense.

Obviously there's no proof (or GW would be in some serious legal trouble), but there's a lot of anecdotal evidence that GW has done exactly that. GW opens a store in the same area as successful independent stores, and suddenly the independent stores have trouble getting inventory even when there's no apparent supply problem for stores in general. The only real question is whether GW still does this, as most of the stories seem to be years in the past.

Even recently I've heard accounts of GW not being reliable in completing what they say they'll do. Like not being able to get the quantity of stock agreed upon previously or not at the agreed time. I've had the experience of ordering GW products from an FLGS and the store owner being given the run around on when the stock would actually arrive. It probably happens more to smaller stores who don't order as much, but it is a bad practice either way.

123ply wrote:
It's wrong. Your local GW runs off of its customers. Every purchase you make online or at some next store hurts your local GW. If it wasn't for your money, there would be no free painting or gaming tables for you to use and no Games Workshop for you to visit.

Support your local independent businessman.

It's likely that the GW store you frequent was put there with the express knowledge and purpose to take business away from an otherwise successful local store (that's probably still ordering GW product). They often use sales numbers from stores in the area to decide where to place their own stores. So in this case, perhaps it's not wrong to buy elsewhere.

GW local stores are part of a brand awareness thing/undercutting tactic. If you're still playing GW games, it's okay to hang out there and play. They're owned and operated by GW, period.

Sucks for the manager though since you're not helping their numbers, but that's the life of a one employee store. It's not going to be pretty for him either way.

I personally wouldn't like doing what the OP mentioned. I buy from other retailers/sites online, but I wouldn't bring my models into my local GW and use their space to build/paint said models.

I completely understand the points others have raised, but for me it doesn't sit right.

I'm not a fan of GW business practices, but my local GW Manager is a pretty decent guy, so i'm happy to buy what I can at his store (mainly paints) to help support him personally.

 D4V1D0 wrote:
I personally wouldn't like doing what the OP mentioned. I buy from other retailers/sites online, but I wouldn't bring my models into my local GW and use their space to build/paint said models.

I completely understand the points others have raised, but for me it doesn't sit right.

I'm not a fan of GW business practices, but my local GW Manager is a pretty decent guy, so i'm happy to buy what I can at his store (mainly paints) to help support him personally.

They get the money either way, those sprues your buying for £10 cost them pennies to produce their profit margin selling to independents at 55% is still huge.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Rolsheen wrote:
No they don't, do they stock their own stores first yes as does every other company in the world. Saying they deliberately delay orders is nonsense.

Obviously there's no proof (or GW would be in some serious legal trouble), but there's a lot of anecdotal evidence that GW has done exactly that. GW opens a store in the same area as successful independent stores, and suddenly the independent stores have trouble getting inventory even when there's no apparent supply problem for stores in general. The only real question is whether GW still does this, as most of the stories seem to be years in the past.

There's been issues here since the GW store moved into the mall a mile away. Not a constant thing, but there's been several instances where we can't get something because it's bsckordered or got messed up or something but the GW guy just got a dozen in.

Keep in mind that if you buy from the GW store, or a GW product from an independent store GW is making money either way.

The only person who is really put out by this is the manager of the GW store, as your not helping him (or her) from hitting sales targets.

If you feel bad about it, next time you need some direct only products use the in store order point so that they get some credit for it.

hobojebus wrote:

 D4V1D0 wrote:
I personally wouldn't like doing what the OP mentioned. I buy from other retailers/sites online, but I wouldn't bring my models into my local GW and use their space to build/paint said models.

I completely understand the points others have raised, but for me it doesn't sit right.

I'm not a fan of GW business practices, but my local GW Manager is a pretty decent guy, so i'm happy to buy what I can at his store (mainly paints) to help support him personally.

They get the money either way, those sprues your buying for £10 cost them pennies to produce their profit margin selling to independents at 55% is still huge.

This is just "giving the middle finger to GW" talk. Who is they? The GW store is not getting the money at all. GW corporate? Yes they get the money either way. Again, the store employee now just lost a sale and is going to even have a harder time now to meet his quota.

While off topic but still appropriate about the GW store not getting a sale, if you buy something that the GW store sells but yet order it online and pick it up at the store, that is a lost sale for the store since the don't get no money for it at all. That is 100% going to cooperate or at least GW online store.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:

 Thairne wrote:
Wrong? No.
A bit amoral? Yes.

I have a FLGS which offers 8% discount via a 5€ voucher you get every 60€ of purchases.
Not big and not significant, especially compared to the online discounts you can get... BUT I almost exclusively play there so I get all my supplies and models from them that they stock (with the exception of brushes. I aint buying GW brushes).
It's just... fair. I use their services for free, so I "pay" with buying from them.

That's not what the guy was asking. He was saying about buying the stuff from the hobby store and then going down stairs to use the GW's facilities to build, paint etc as the hobby shop doesn't support that. That's trying to take advantage of free facilities without supporting the actual GW.

Which in essence is the same to purchasing online for bigger discount and then using FLGS their facilities to play.
Buy elsewhere, use their stuff.
I pay where I play.
Or in this casem I pay where I paint.

Davor wrote:

hobojebus wrote:

 D4V1D0 wrote:
I personally wouldn't like doing what the OP mentioned. I buy from other retailers/sites online, but I wouldn't bring my models into my local GW and use their space to build/paint said models.

I completely understand the points others have raised, but for me it doesn't sit right.

I'm not a fan of GW business practices, but my local GW Manager is a pretty decent guy, so i'm happy to buy what I can at his store (mainly paints) to help support him personally.

They get the money either way, those sprues your buying for £10 cost them pennies to produce their profit margin selling to independents at 55% is still huge.

This is just "giving the middle finger to GW" talk. Who is they? The GW store is not getting the money at all. GW corporate? Yes they get the money either way. Again, the store employee now just lost a sale and is going to even have a harder time now to meet his quota.

While off topic but still appropriate about the GW store not getting a sale, if you buy something that the GW store sells but yet order it online and pick it up at the store, that is a lost sale for the store since the don't get no money for it at all. That is 100% going to cooperate or at least GW online store.

No my middle finger is giving money to their competition I don't buy GW products anymore.

It's not up to the customer to support a shop it's up to the shop to entice you to buy from them, the customer never owes any company a living.

hobojebus wrote:

Davor wrote:

hobojebus wrote:

 D4V1D0 wrote:
I personally wouldn't like doing what the OP mentioned. I buy from other retailers/sites online, but I wouldn't bring my models into my local GW and use their space to build/paint said models.

I completely understand the points others have raised, but for me it doesn't sit right.

I'm not a fan of GW business practices, but my local GW Manager is a pretty decent guy, so i'm happy to buy what I can at his store (mainly paints) to help support him personally.

They get the money either way, those sprues your buying for £10 cost them pennies to produce their profit margin selling to independents at 55% is still huge.

This is just "giving the middle finger to GW" talk. Who is they? The GW store is not getting the money at all. GW corporate? Yes they get the money either way. Again, the store employee now just lost a sale and is going to even have a harder time now to meet his quota.

While off topic but still appropriate about the GW store not getting a sale, if you buy something that the GW store sells but yet order it online and pick it up at the store, that is a lost sale for the store since the don't get no money for it at all. That is 100% going to cooperate or at least GW online store.

No my middle finger is giving money to their competition I don't buy GW products anymore.

It's not up to the customer to support a shop it's up to the shop to entice you to buy from them, the customer never owes any company a living.

So imagine there are two FLGS in your area and one has a nice big store with tables and a painting area and the other one doesn't, it's really this tiny cramped store with no space at all for anything but product shelves, but they have a "we undercut the other FLGS by 10%!" policy instead: Are you going to buy your stuff at the cheaper store then walk over to the other FLGS, sit down and start assembly of your freshly purchased miniatures? And think that's just fine?

*edit* Don't get me wrong - you really don't "owe" a company anything. But if everyone behaves like that the nice, big store with tables will have to close down and that's your own fault then.

I personaly think its moraly wrong to use a store and not buy anything from it however i would buy the larger stuff from upstairs ie £80 then build it or at least start on it else where . Then i would have no problem using the gw store . The gw store does get somthing from it because the store looks full and busy which genrates intress as does your building painting ect .

More than being "wrong" or "right", it's more a question about if you wish to keep the staff you like at this store or not. Because their job depends on how much they sell each month. If the shop isn't profitable, it will be closed and you can suck yourself to find another place to paint and build your models for "free".

Since you buy GW products, GW as a whole won't really care about that. However, supporting the place where you often go and have fun is good not only for you, but also for the guy(s) who manage(s) this place as well.

It's worth well a few more bucks here and there.

Thinking about it it is frustrating that gw stores dont have some way of giving the 10% off that the independent stores do

I do a lot of shopping around to find deals on my 40k stuff, but when I got out to play somewhere and we use their tables and their terrain than I feel like I should buy at lease something. Paint, brushes, more models, and or other games. Just something to contribute to that store.

I get 10% off at my LGS and I barely shop there anymore (I've spent my fair share keeping it open, imo). Like mentioned earlier, there are several ways to get better discounts. Emotional appeals don't work on me because it's not my responsibility to keep stores in business, it's on them to provide me incentives to shop there, and it just so happens that independent retailers offering me upwards of 30% off RRP is the kind of incentive I look for now. I play at the LGS, I play at the local GW, I will occasionally buy small things at the GW (but only after an interaction with the manager about said product, i.e. we're talking about paints and he convinces me on a color or something - I consider that him "making the sale," and so I'll give him the money for it), and still buy things at the LGS here and there, but the majority of my hobby shopping is done with discounts in mind, now.

If I were to lose either store, it would be disappointing, but not disappointing enough to look at an $800 charge and a $1000 charge and choose to pay the $1000.

People are gonna hit you with the "10% isn't enough to justify walking upstairs and not supporting the GW," and you're going to have to make your own decision on that. 10% covers taxes, gives you more money to buy more product, or just leaves some in your bank account, whatever you prefer.

GW provides a space to play/paint/assemble, and unless they attach conditions to it, there are no conditions. You just being there playing/painting helps the store by improving its image.

Also, LOL bigtime @ the comment about "If the store owner sees you come in with product, take off the cellophane and begin assembling he can just accuse you of theft because you don't have a receipt proving you purchased it." In that instance, I would proudly show the receipt from the other store - that hypothetical is nothing but a poor scare tactic.

ian wrote:
Thinking about it it is frustrating that gw stores dont have some way of giving the 10% off that the independent stores do

Well, they do, but they choose not to. Price matching.

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

ian wrote:
Thinking about it it is frustrating that gw stores dont have some way of giving the 10% off that the independent stores do

Well, they do, but they choose not to. Price matching.

A lot of places do it, and a lot of places that refuse to do it lose business.

Jacksmiles wrote:

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

ian wrote:
Thinking about it it is frustrating that gw stores dont have some way of giving the 10% off that the independent stores do

Well, they do, but they choose not to. Price matching.

A lot of places do it, and a lot of places that refuse to do it lose business.

GW don't have to worry about that. Their Cult will see them through and will set people right about why one should support them at all costs.

I skimmed through a fair amount of this thread, so apologies if some of this is duplicate. This is intended as practical advice to the OP and not as a response to anything anyone in particular has said.

Full disclaimer... I used to be a GW store manager about 10 years ago. I no longer work in retail.

Points...

1. The GW tables are intended as a free courtesy for paying customers OF THAT STORE. The Store Manager doesn't get paid based on GW's corporate sales. He gets paid based on his own sales. If you're not buying stuff at his store, you're not a paying customer and the tables aren't really there for your use. Having said that, it's always better for business if the store looks busy. As a a manger, I'd happily let anyone use the 'hobby table' to assemble and paint models purchased elsewhere with the understanding that if actual paying customers come in and need space... well, you're going to lose your seat. Paying customers have to take priority. Same for the gaming tables. If we both know you got all your models from another store or off eBay, etc, don't expect priority and do expect to occasionally get shifted when someone else needs a table. If you don't like that, go elsewhere. It's not like I'll lose sales when you leave.

2. Pay where you play is a saying for a reason. If you like having tables to play on, support the business. Not buying models at the GW store will, in the long run, cause the GW store to close. Yes, you'll still get your models upstairs for 10% off, but you'll have nowhere to play. Yes, you can always find a new place, but if you don't support that new place, you'll be in the same boat.

3. If you have to ask if something is wrong, it usually is. Justify how you want, but you're taking advantage of a store's hospitality while actively undermining its viability. That feels wrong to me. At the very least, it's a jerk move.

nekooni wrote:

hobojebus wrote:

Davor wrote:

hobojebus wrote:

 D4V1D0 wrote:
I personally wouldn't like doing what the OP mentioned. I buy from other retailers/sites online, but I wouldn't bring my models into my local GW and use their space to build/paint said models.

I completely understand the points others have raised, but for me it doesn't sit right.

I'm not a fan of GW business practices, but my local GW Manager is a pretty decent guy, so i'm happy to buy what I can at his store (mainly paints) to help support him personally.

They get the money either way, those sprues your buying for £10 cost them pennies to produce their profit margin selling to independents at 55% is still huge.

This is just "giving the middle finger to GW" talk. Who is they? The GW store is not getting the money at all. GW corporate? Yes they get the money either way. Again, the store employee now just lost a sale and is going to even have a harder time now to meet his quota.

While off topic but still appropriate about the GW store not getting a sale, if you buy something that the GW store sells but yet order it online and pick it up at the store, that is a lost sale for the store since the don't get no money for it at all. That is 100% going to cooperate or at least GW online store.

No my middle finger is giving money to their competition I don't buy GW products anymore.

It's not up to the customer to support a shop it's up to the shop to entice you to buy from them, the customer never owes any company a living.

So imagine there are two FLGS in your area and one has a nice big store with tables and a painting area and the other one doesn't, it's really this tiny cramped store with no space at all for anything but product shelves, but they have a "we undercut the other FLGS by 10%!" policy instead: Are you going to buy your stuff at the cheaper store then walk over to the other FLGS, sit down and start assembly of your freshly purchased miniatures? And think that's just fine?

*edit* Don't get me wrong - you really don't "owe" a company anything. But if everyone behaves like that the nice, big store with tables will have to close down and that's your own fault then.

False equivalency fallacy right there, we are not talking about independent stores but a GW store that's not under the same preasures.

Buying from the net or a flgs GW makes money so you should not feel guilty for playing at their stores with their products.

The only difference being you're a customer of Shop A or Shop B.

Shop A offers a painting utility, Shop B offers a discount.

You can buy from one or the other but only realistically enjoy the utility of the one you choose.

hobojebus wrote:

nekooni wrote:

hobojebus wrote:

Davor wrote:

hobojebus wrote:

 D4V1D0 wrote:
I personally wouldn't like doing what the OP mentioned. I buy from other retailers/sites online, but I wouldn't bring my models into my local GW and use their space to build/paint said models.

I completely understand the points others have raised, but for me it doesn't sit right.

I'm not a fan of GW business practices, but my local GW Manager is a pretty decent guy, so i'm happy to buy what I can at his store (mainly paints) to help support him personally.

They get the money either way, those sprues your buying for £10 cost them pennies to produce their profit margin selling to independents at 55% is still huge.

This is just "giving the middle finger to GW" talk. Who is they? The GW store is not getting the money at all. GW corporate? Yes they get the money either way. Again, the store employee now just lost a sale and is going to even have a harder time now to meet his quota.

While off topic but still appropriate about the GW store not getting a sale, if you buy something that the GW store sells but yet order it online and pick it up at the store, that is a lost sale for the store since the don't get no money for it at all. That is 100% going to cooperate or at least GW online store.

No my middle finger is giving money to their competition I don't buy GW products anymore.

It's not up to the customer to support a shop it's up to the shop to entice you to buy from them, the customer never owes any company a living.

So imagine there are two FLGS in your area and one has a nice big store with tables and a painting area and the other one doesn't, it's really this tiny cramped store with no space at all for anything but product shelves, but they have a "we undercut the other FLGS by 10%!" policy instead: Are you going to buy your stuff at the cheaper store then walk over to the other FLGS, sit down and start assembly of your freshly purchased miniatures? And think that's just fine?

*edit* Don't get me wrong - you really don't "owe" a company anything. But if everyone behaves like that the nice, big store with tables will have to close down and that's your own fault then.

False equivalency fallacy right there, we are not talking about independent stores but a GW store that's not under the same preasures.

Buying from the net or a flgs GW makes money so you should not feel guilty for playing at their stores with their products.

You're also working under some false assumptions. You need to stop equating the local GW store to GW Corporate. They're not the same. The local store will suffer if it doesn't make sales and its employees will lose their jobs just as they would if they worked at an FLGS that wasn't making sales.

Super high level...

Let's assume it costs GW $30 to produce, package and ship to a store a $100 MSRP item. Let's also assume that GW gives stores a 40% off retail discount when ordering, so they're effectively selling that $100 item to a store for $60.

FLGS Scenario: FLGS purchases the item for $60. GW has spent a total of $30 selling the product. GW makes $30 profit.

"Good" GW Store Scenario: GW store purchases the item for $60. GW store spends an additional $30 in payroll/rent/etc to sell the product for $100. GW Overall has now spent a total of $60 selling the product. GW Overall makes $40 profit. Better than a FLGS. But...

"Bad" GW Store Scenario: GW store purchases the item for $60. GW store spends an additional $50 in payroll/rent/etc to sell the product for $100. More is spent because fewer customers are buying things and it takes longer to make the same sale. GW Overall has now spent a total of $80 selling the product. GW Overall makes $20 profit. Worse than a FLGS.

Super simplified, but you can see how in the OP's situation, shopping elsewhere and then just using the facilities creates a "bad" GW store scenario. GW WILL close that store when the lease is up. If the OP is ok with losing that gaming space, keep shopping elsewhere. If he wants to keep the gaming space, shop at the GW store. It's a value proposition. Is the 10% price difference worth more or less than having somewhere to game?