Switch Theme:

Classic Battletech Is Awesome: the Thread!  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





 Formosa wrote:
it seems this thread has become the Defacto Battletech thread lol, I will change the title to reflect this.

So guys what tips and hits would you give to new players when making a lance.

1: do you enforce the scarcity of certain mechs from certain factions, Ghost bear mechs for ghost bears etc.

2: what tonnage do you usually play, and what is the average BV? do you use BV1 or BV2?

3: Explain heat dissipation to me, as I thought it was
5 legacy heat +10 for the heat genned in that turn for a total of 15, then dissipate heat (say 10 HSK) for a total of 5.

4: what are your favourite periods to play in?

5: do you play MWO?

6: will you be playing Battletech when its released

Cheers guys


For Lance construction, it depends to a degree if you're intending on it operating as part of a Company or being a self sufficient unit. If it's part of a larger unit, take mechs that have similar speeds and ranges, ideally they should probably be the same class or similar tonnages. For a single self sufficient Lance, in my experience I favour having a mix of dedicated close range fighters and/or all-rounders with long range support, having a fast and/or jump capable light buzzing around making itself a nuisance and spotting for indirect fire can be useful too and can free up tonnage for the main three, you just need to be careful not to let it get isolated and picked off by volume of fire before its Lance mates can get close enough to be a threat.

1: Yes, but not that strictly. Firstly, the TROs were written from the perspective of being Comstar intelligence reports, so just because they say Mech A is only seen in Faction A, doesn't necessarily mean that there's not a single example anywhere else, Comstar might have just missed it. Secondly, with Battlefield salvage and the occasional sale to mercenary units, mechs tend to migrate through the Inner Sphere, so a Kurita exclusive might eventually find its way to a Marik house unit for example. Similarly for the Clans (not Mercenary sales obviously), so you could reasonably see for example, a Jade Falcon Behemoth. These should be fairly rare though and fielding whole lances or stars of other faction's exclusives should generally be a no-no. I'm stricter with myself on date specifics, so if the books say a specific mech didn't enter service till 3053, I won't use it in games taking place earlier than 3053.

2: Whatever everyone's happy to agree to, somewhere around 250-300t per Lance will give you a decent range of options, much above that though and you'll be likely to end up rarely or never seeing anything below a medium, much below that and you're pretty much ruling out Assaults.

3: As has already been said, yes.

4: Pretty much anything although I haven't really played the 3060+ stuff yet, but I can't see any massive issues with it, although I'm not especially keen on the Jihad storyline. My own Mercenaries are currently up to July 3056 in universe.

5: No, not really interested in online gaming. I tend to play computer games when I want to avoid people rather than interact with them. MW4: Mercenaries was fun but I thought MW3 was closer to actual Battletech.

6: Possibly. Megamek already more or less scratches that itch for me and it's free so providing the lawyers don't kill it, I'll likely stick with that or use it as well as.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Stormonu wrote:
Yeah, Gunnery/Piloting skills can be where Clanners are really scary. Back when the Clan material was new, the local gaming club ran a IS vs. Clan invasion campaign. After some heated talked, the Clan players decided to teach the IS players a lesson. They bid for one big fight for the control of the planet. One star against the entire defense force - some 30-40 IS mechs.

The IS players went for it. Not only did they bring the entire force, they also got their hands on a couple of salvaged LAMs and even hired a local Merc force to help, which brought the IS force up to somewhere near 50 mechs.

The Clanners (I think they were Smoke Jaguar, BTW) won. The game table was about 10'-15' square. They landed in the middle of a Monsoon, at night, after they likewise tricked the IS forces to be spead out across several objectives, leaving them to attack in waves. The Clanners needed 9's to 11's to hit. Most of the IS mechs needed 13's-15's most of the time.

I remember the first casualty being an IS Warhammer who made himself a target when he turned on his spotlight. I stopped watching after that to go to my D&D game, and got the rest of the battle report later.

By the end of the battle, only a badly limping Atlas IS mech (with a gyro hit and armless) and a "gerwalk"-locked LAM Wasp survived the ensuing massacre.

None of the Clan mechs were destroyed, though one Loki was missing all of its right torso armor.


Sorry to backtrack a bit and I mean no real disrespect to the players concerned but if the forces were as you described here either the Inner Sphere players must have been severely incompetent, the Clan players were cheating or insanely lucky or they were doing something wrong, that size force should have been able to swamp a single star just in weight of numbers alone, unless they allowed the Clan mechs to repair and rearm between waves (in which case, it would be more like several separate battles rather than a single engagement), or just sat back and didn't move allowing the Clanners to pick them off at will. Ammunition allocations alone do not favour 3050 Invasion Clan mechs in a protracted battle as they don't usually carry enough for anything beyond a short engagement. I just find it hard to believe the results were quite that one sided, it sounds more like the outcome was a result of bad tactics on the IS side than the superiority of Clan tech.

About the worst odds I played was a 16 mech reinforced company against my 3 Thors. It was to settle an argument, the other player had claimed that all Thors were crap, I disagreed and offered to take on whatever opposing forces he brought against 3 Mechforce UK Thor Es. I won without losing a single mech, although by the end one was more or less stripped of armour, one was missing about 1/3 it's armour though the last was basically undamaged. Large Pulse Lasers and Targetting Computers are vicious. Still, odds of just over 5-1 was more than enough to win the argument.

There are other ways to even the playing field a bit against Clanners, tricks like using FASCAM LRM ammo can leave the Clan player with a choice of losing his mobility or risk blowing his own mechs legs off (I used that one myself to defeat two heavy stars with a single company, got some good salvage out of that one). C-3 networks can help. Aerospace support, where Clan training isn't as advanced can also make a difference as there's not a lot you can do to stop a divebombing Aerospace fighter from dropping it's payload on you, even with Clan tech. You can also get the Clan players to bid against each other for who gets to command and with what, sort of as in the fluff. That can be interesting and can make for more challenging games.

But ultimately if you're playing Inner Sphere against Clan, all other things being equal, you'll need numbers and need to accept that you're going to take losses since you will be outclassed. Which especially sucks if you're a mercenary unit unless you're in the very fortunate position of having spare mechs, but that's why some of the best paying contracts are on the Clan front.

This message was edited 18 times. Last update was at 2017/04/06 21:09:25


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





 H.B.M.C. wrote:


Between 4-8 'Mechs a size. Larger games tend to take forever. Solaris games where you have multiple players in big 1v1v1v1v1 situations are a blast. They also teach you a lot about the game, like how to not fear heat.

Sometimes I use BV. Mostly I don't. I like BTech's inherent imbalance. I'll take forces that fit with the fluff and gives me a variety of 'Mechs to use before I take one that's 'balanced'. I do like using RATs.

 Formosa wrote:
4: what are your favourite periods to play in?


3058, when everything was perfect.

I'm not one of those "Nothing happened after 3025!" or "The Jihad sucks!" or "FedCom Civil War 4eva!!!" players. I'll play anything as long as it's fun.


I always think of 3058 as when they made a deliberate effort to design bad Clan mechs so that the good Inner Sphere designs had a chance. I'd take most 3050 Omnis over their later counterparts, hell I'd take a lot if the second line Clan mechs against their later first line equivilents.

Regarding multiplayer 1v1v1v1... I played a great game once where we drew the mech version out of a hat at random, there was about 10 players and it was purely 3025 Lights. I drew the Locust variant with LRMs and practically no armour...
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Central WI

3025-3058 was great! Mechs were perfect, characters were legendary, and I loved the unseens and clans. The jihad got wierd, and wizkids made cbt very wierd and non battletech-ish at that point.

Although, many of the newer designs now fit and the future storyline is great (except for that damned dark age).

I personally don't buy anything newer than 3085, nor do I play anything newer for both cbt and alpha strike.

IN ALAE MORTIS... On the wings of Death!! 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

simonr1978 wrote:
I always think of 3058 as when they made a deliberate effort to design bad Clan mechs so that the good Inner Sphere designs had a chance. I'd take most 3050 Omnis over their later counterparts, hell I'd take a lot if the second line Clan mechs against their later first line equivilents.


*looks up TRO 3058*

Piranha, Grendel, Shadow Cat, Fat Duck 'Mech Black Lanner, Cauldron-Born, Night Gyr, Turkina, Kodiak.

Bad Clan 'Mechs? You're calling the Night Gyr bad? Please clarify.

simonr1978 wrote:
Regarding multiplayer 1v1v1v1... I played a great game once where we drew the mech version out of a hat at random, there was about 10 players and it was purely 3025 Lights. I drew the Locust variant with LRMs and practically no armour...


Had one game where it was light 'Mechs and on the first round we were moving slow enough to fire at one another I got TAC'd, lost my engine, and was out in one shot. Shortest game I've ever played.


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in es
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer






Most configurations of the Turkina are very good, but the Turkina-B is a thing out of nightmare with a whooping BV (2.0) of 3.420.

So... yeah, dunno about that ^^
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





Scratch that, I think I was conflating a number of TRO 3055 and 3058 designs together. There are good mechs there, there are also some pretty poor ones too though. Turkina P is pretty underwhelming IMO and Cauldron Born P wastes a lot of tonnage on excess heat sinks IIRC. Definitely wouldn't call the Night Gyr bad though.
   
Made in es
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer






I'm not familiar with the Turkina P... how is it? where is it from?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Los Angeles

simonr1978 wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:


Between 4-8 'Mechs a size. Larger games tend to take forever. Solaris games where you have multiple players in big 1v1v1v1v1 situations are a blast. They also teach you a lot about the game, like how to not fear heat.

Sometimes I use BV. Mostly I don't. I like BTech's inherent imbalance. I'll take forces that fit with the fluff and gives me a variety of 'Mechs to use before I take one that's 'balanced'. I do like using RATs.

 Formosa wrote:
4: what are your favourite periods to play in?


3058, when everything was perfect.

I'm not one of those "Nothing happened after 3025!" or "The Jihad sucks!" or "FedCom Civil War 4eva!!!" players. I'll play anything as long as it's fun.


I always think of 3058 as when they made a deliberate effort to design bad Clan mechs so that the good Inner Sphere designs had a chance. I'd take most 3050 Omnis over their later counterparts, hell I'd take a lot if the second line Clan mechs against their later first line equivilents.



But... but... my Turkina?!

That was, and is, a slick and deadly Clan Omni!

3058 came out when I was in middle school. I still remember pouring over that book with my friends and us freaking out over how many Gauss Rifles were being crammed into `Mechs (along with the glorious IS XL engines that insta-killed your `Mech if you lost a side torso). Mmm nostalgia!




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Albertorius wrote:
I'm not familiar with the Turkina P... how is it? where is it from?


Jade Faclon 95-ton death machine. Came out in TRO 3058 and has some really, really powerful variants, but the BV costs are also appropriately high.

That is one `Mech that I'd like to see a re-sculpt of. The miniature available is okay, but getting a bit long in the tooth.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/07 18:50:33


 
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:
I'm not familiar with the Turkina P... how is it? where is it from?

Jade Faclon 95-ton death machine. Came out in TRO 3058 and has some really, really powerful variants, but the BV costs are also appropriately high.

That is one `Mech that I'd like to see a re-sculpt of. The miniature available is okay, but getting a bit long in the tooth.

I believe he's talking about the P configuration, not the Turkina in general.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
Stubborn Temple Guard






As far as I am aware there is no "P" configuration of the Turkina.

27th Member of D.O.O.M.F.A.R.T.
Resident Battletech Guru. 
   
Made in es
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer






 Ghaz wrote:
 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:
I'm not familiar with the Turkina P... how is it? where is it from?

Jade Faclon 95-ton death machine. Came out in TRO 3058 and has some really, really powerful variants, but the BV costs are also appropriately high.

That is one `Mech that I'd like to see a re-sculpt of. The miniature available is okay, but getting a bit long in the tooth.

I believe he's talking about the P configuration, not the Turkina in general.


Indeed I am ^_^ (I've even posted a battle story of me using a Turkina B upthread).

Rereading, I suppose that "P" means "Prime", in this context? If so, I would agree that 2x ER-PPC, 2x LRM-15, 2x LB-5X and a fair amount of ammo is not the best configuration ever, but... well, it's not exactly horrible.

Just saw that the Turkina-Z has the second highest BV of any official battlemech, at 3.935, only exceeded by the Ryoken III-XP C.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/07 20:39:55


 
   
Made in us
Stubborn Temple Guard






 Albertorius wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:
I'm not familiar with the Turkina P... how is it? where is it from?

Jade Faclon 95-ton death machine. Came out in TRO 3058 and has some really, really powerful variants, but the BV costs are also appropriately high.

That is one `Mech that I'd like to see a re-sculpt of. The miniature available is okay, but getting a bit long in the tooth.

I believe he's talking about the P configuration, not the Turkina in general.


Indeed I am ^_^ (I've even posted a battle story of me using a Turkina B upthread).

Rereading, I suppose that "P" means "Prime", in this context? If so, I would agree that 2x ER-PPC, 2x LRM-15, 2x LB-5X and a fair amount of ammo is not the best configuration ever, but... well, it's not exactly horrible.

Just saw that the Turkina-Z has the second highest BV of any official battlemech, at 3.935, only exceeded by the Ryoken III-XP C.



The pure evil that is iATMs combined with a Nova CEWS SHOULD have an insanely high BV. Combined with any sort of Nova spotter, it should be shredding things every round it fires.

27th Member of D.O.O.M.F.A.R.T.
Resident Battletech Guru. 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

is anyone aware of any tool that helps with campaigns, tracking etc.

I got the campaign operations books (very good btw) but jebus H bob its complicated, I have most of it down and sorted, but I would like something to help work out upkeep, pay and all that jazz.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





The Battle Barge Buffet Line

 Formosa wrote:
is anyone aware of any tool that helps with campaigns, tracking etc.

I got the campaign operations books (very good btw) but jebus H bob its complicated, I have most of it down and sorted, but I would like something to help work out upkeep, pay and all that jazz.


Traditionally these tools worked well in the past.

Spoiler:


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/10 04:45:49


We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
 
   
Made in es
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer






 Formosa wrote:
is anyone aware of any tool that helps with campaigns, tracking etc.

I got the campaign operations books (very good btw) but jebus H bob its complicated, I have most of it down and sorted, but I would like something to help work out upkeep, pay and all that jazz.


Only one I know of is MekHQ (which has full integration with Megamek). I don't know if they've updated it to the latest books, though.

http://megamek.org/downloads
   
Made in us
Stubborn Temple Guard






 Formosa wrote:
is anyone aware of any tool that helps with campaigns, tracking etc.

I got the campaign operations books (very good btw) but jebus H bob its complicated, I have most of it down and sorted, but I would like something to help work out upkeep, pay and all that jazz.


The Chaos Campaign creates a simplified (but solid) campaign and management system. Reasonably cheap Battletech PDF from Catalyst.

27th Member of D.O.O.M.F.A.R.T.
Resident Battletech Guru. 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




 Formosa wrote:
is anyone aware of any tool that helps with campaigns, tracking etc.

I got the campaign operations books (very good btw) but jebus H bob its complicated, I have most of it down and sorted, but I would like something to help work out upkeep, pay and all that jazz.


Unfortunately you’ve discovered the flaw with most of the optional rules sets. They are so gratuitously complicated, and unnecessary IMHO, that they just sit on the shelf.

One of my gripes with BT is that it is written by, and for, the people who’ve been playing since the 80s/90s. So unless you have all that background it can be overwhelming. They seriously took 23 pages to describe how to build a force. Most modern wargames wouldn’t spend more than 5 pages on it. Decides the force size, pick the stuff, select skills, start playing. When I was in high school the Battletech Compendium was the comprehensive rulebook. It was much smaller than the current total warfare (TW), and covered everything, including stuff that they weren’t able to fit into TW. I don’t want to dampen enthusiasm, since I’m a fan of BT. But sometimes I wonder if they want BT to reach to a broader audience.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

The Chaos Campaign rules are pretty simple though. Shame that the ones in Campaign Operations are functionally broken.

I'm not just saying they're bad, I'm saying that they do not function. There is a point in the rules where, during an example, the example introduces a rule not mentioned prior to the example!!!

It's that bad.

I asked about this on the official forums about 6 months ago and they replied to me a couple of days ago saying "The person who wrote the rule has left the company, but we'll try to find the answer!".

Thing is, the answer is in the updated 4 page (or whatever it was) Chaos Campaign rule booklet they released years ago. That had the same problems, I asked, Herb got angry that someone had pointed out the error, and reluctantly they released an updated version that fixed the problem.

And now they've reverted back to the broken version before the update, and I have no frickin' idea why.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

Thanks for all the help people, so here is the VERY rough draft of my idea for the first phase of the campaign.

Players 2-6 depending on who is available and when.

The opening scene will have each of the players controlling a mech from the stockpile of mechs available ($30,000,0000 budget, to include all mechs, support staff etc. Drop ship will be "free"), they will be starting in the Solaris arena (in different maps) at the end of the match, there jump ship receives a distress call, the main base is under attack by forces unknown dum dum duuuuuuum!
   
Made in us
Second Story Man





Astonished of Heck

 Formosa wrote:
Thanks for all the help people, so here is the VERY rough draft of my idea for the first phase of the campaign.

Players 2-6 depending on who is available and when.

The opening scene will have each of the players controlling a mech from the stockpile of mechs available ($30,000,0000 budget, to include all mechs, support staff etc. Drop ship will be "free"), they will be starting in the Solaris arena (in different maps) at the end of the match, there jump ship receives a distress call, the main base is under attack by forces unknown dum dum duuuuuuum!

What era, if I may ask?

Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Megavolt wrote:They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right.
 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

 Charistoph wrote:
 Formosa wrote:
Thanks for all the help people, so here is the VERY rough draft of my idea for the first phase of the campaign.

Players 2-6 depending on who is available and when.

The opening scene will have each of the players controlling a mech from the stockpile of mechs available ($30,000,0000 budget, to include all mechs, support staff etc. Drop ship will be "free"), they will be starting in the Solaris arena (in different maps) at the end of the match, there jump ship receives a distress call, the main base is under attack by forces unknown dum dum duuuuuuum!

What era, if I may ask?


Derp, 3048
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




This thread has been giving me the Battletech itch again, so what's the best advice you'd give to somebody who hasn't played in a long time as far as "what to get"? My last rulebook was the Battletech Compendium: Rules of Warfare.

I've also been eyeing the Alpha Strike Striker Lance, since I've always been fond of the Draconis Combine, and it looks like it's purpose built for them.
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

Total warfare book is the first port of call buddy
   
Made in us
Stubborn Temple Guard






nobody wrote:
This thread has been giving me the Battletech itch again, so what's the best advice you'd give to somebody who hasn't played in a long time as far as "what to get"? My last rulebook was the Battletech Compendium: Rules of Warfare.

I've also been eyeing the Alpha Strike Striker Lance, since I've always been fond of the Draconis Combine, and it looks like it's purpose built for them.


If you can find a copy of the Intro Box for a reasonable price, you can get that.

Total Warfare gets you all the rules to play "tournament" level games.

Alpha Strike gives you rules to play "fast" Battletech. Larger scale, far less complex, far less details.

27th Member of D.O.O.M.F.A.R.T.
Resident Battletech Guru. 
   
Made in us
Utilizing Careful Highlighting





Or just keep your Compendium stuff. Not a whole lot changed, mostly just new tech and a few problem rules (Partial cover now just making leg location hits into "whiff", and adds +1 to hit mod, instead of +3 but 1 in 6s takes your head is the only one that immediately jumps to mind.)
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Or just wait for the Battletech Battle Manual to come out. It's basically going to take the 'Mech stuff from Total Warfare, plus most of the 'Mech-only stuff most people use from the other books, and collate/update it.

It'll be completely 'Mech-centric, and allow you to play BTech games without having to worry about all the rules for infantry, vehicles, jets, etc. getting in the way and making books longer.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Stubborn Temple Guard






The Manual is undergoing some changes right now. The open beta revealed some problems that are being addressed, so it might be a few months until that release.

27th Member of D.O.O.M.F.A.R.T.
Resident Battletech Guru. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Thanks guys, assuming I get to play a game I'll use the book I have, and I'll just hold off on getting any new books until the new release.

I'll probably still get that Alpha Strike lance though
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 Mattlov wrote:
The Manual is undergoing some changes right now. The open beta revealed some problems that are being addressed, so it might be a few months until that release.


What problems, out of interest, given it was a collation of existing rules.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Second Story Man





Astonished of Heck

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Mattlov wrote:
The Manual is undergoing some changes right now. The open beta revealed some problems that are being addressed, so it might be a few months until that release.


What problems, out of interest, given it was a collation of existing rules.

I don't have the book, so I can't say, but I saw reports of some TRO tech that is tournament legal at the later eras was not included in the book.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/20 04:03:49


Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Megavolt wrote:They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right.
 
   
 
Forum Index » Other Sci-Fi Miniatures Games
Go to: