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 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Actually, while Jes' concept art (it's in The Gothic and the Eldritch, by the way) describes the World Eater as being in mark 5 armour, that miniature actually appeared slightly before the first "normal" mark 5 Marine, IIRC. If anything, the World Eater is the prototypical mark 5 armour.

The Emperor's Children marine from that same set (available until recently in the Traitors of Chaos set) is in mark 6 armour. If I were a betting man, I'd say World Eaters in mark 5 and a transitional Terminator armour like the suit Tyberos the Red Wake wears (indomitus with extra rivets), and Emperor's Children in mark 6 and Indomitus.

Sounds likely to me. The notes on the sketches say that each Legion favoured a particular mark – Death Guard liked mark III for its durability, the Thousand Sons preferred the advanced nature of Mark IV, the World Eaters favoured Mark V for its brutal appearance and ease of maintenance, and the Emperor's Children had lots of Mark VI as a result of their relentless raiding and search for new experiences. If the sculptors follow that concept through, I'm very excited to see new Berserkers. Mark V is probably my favourite.

The New Death Guard are awesome. They won't get me starting a new army, but I love the look and the fact GW are hearkening back to the older material for Chaos. While I love the Horus Heresy setting, the corrupt, semi-organic/daemonic nature of Chaos Space Marines in 40k is what differentiates them from the Traitors of the early Heresy.

The plague marines shown are a bit too mutated for my taste. But there is a rumor its a dual kit, so maybe there is a toned down option.

I love all the manic grins and joyful leering of the new models.
You can clearly see they are basking in their corpulence and pestilence.

I really don't think Chaos Marines of all people should have neatly identifiable armour marks. With thousands of years of raiding, repairs, defectors from other warbands, new recruits, renegade Marines and maybe a mutation or two on top of adorning their suit with trophies, fetishes and devotional imagery noone should look the same. Boxing the traitor Legions and thus all OTHER cult Marines into a distinct look feels wrong. Yeah, maybe the preferred one design, but hardly anyone had a supply of purely on suit of armour and it's been ten thousand years for some and other started just yesteryear to pledge their souls away.

Seeing how old the Berzerker kit is, this is basically the only shot we get at Plague Marines and if they're all cearly Mk. 3 wearing Death Guard bloaters, what would WB/BL/other CSM players do. The release article for the 'zerkers actually made a point from the designers that all WE are Berzerkers, but not all Berzerkers are World Eaters and it'd be a shame if all upcoming Cult Marines kits would throw that design philosphy and background away for more armour mark pedantry. I blame Forgeworld for this and I don't like it. DV Chosen and CSM kit with their, well, chaotic look -> good, all Noise Marines sporting the same armour mark -> baaad. The Chosen should be the measuring stick for all CSM kits, with ornamented and twisted armour that you MIGHT identify as one Mk, but terribly disfigured by the life in service to the dak gods.

PS: I have both Word Bearers and Death Guard that want Plague Marines, so don't think I'm just peeved that I fee left out.

 Binabik15 wrote:
I really don't think Chaos Marines of all people should have neatly identifiable armour marks. With thousands of years of raiding, repairs, defectors from other warbands, new recruits, renegade Marines and maybe a mutation or two on top of adorning their suit with trophies, fetishes and devotional imagery noone should look the same. Boxing the traitor Legions and thus all OTHER cult Marines into a distinct look feels wrong. Yeah, maybe the preferred one design, but hardly anyone had a supply of purely on suit of armour and it's been ten thousand years for some and other started just yesteryear to pledge their souls away.

Seeing how old the Berzerker kit is, this is basically the only shot we get at Plague Marines and if they're all cearly Mk. 3 wearing Death Guard bloaters, what would WB/BL/other CSM players do. The release article for the 'zerkers actually made a point from the designers that all WE are Berzerkers, but not all Berzerkers are World Eaters and it'd be a shame if all upcoming Cult Marines kits would throw that design philosphy and background away for more armour mark pedantry. I blame Forgeworld for this and I don't like it. DV Chosen and CSM kit with their, well, chaotic look -> good, all Noise Marines sporting the same armour mark -> baaad. The Chosen should be the measuring stick for all CSM kits, with ornamented and twisted armour that you MIGHT identify as one Mk, but terribly disfigured by the life in service to the dak gods.

PS: I have both Word Bearers and Death Guard that want Plague Marines, so don't think I'm just peeved that I fee left out.

I think youre mistaking Chaos Warbands with Legions. The Legions are remnants of the original thousand sons/death guard and so on, vanilla csm are random warbands that pick up whatever they can find whilst raiding random agri worlds.
The legions are the guys that have been doing organized raids ordered by Magnus and Mortarion, which is shown in their rules as well since they have formation bonuses tied to VotLW that everyone must take.

You're free to model how you like of course. Though in my mind i will use my old CSM as a warband that might have mark of nurgle, but they will just be hangarounds to the real Deaths Guard Legion

*edit* also, its stated in the fluff that many legions have their own loyal forgeworlds or like the thousand sons, their own MKIV forge.

 Binabik15 wrote:
I really don't think Chaos Marines of all people should have neatly identifiable armour marks. With thousands of years of raiding, repairs, defectors from other warbands, new recruits, renegade Marines and maybe a mutation or two on top of adorning their suit with trophies, fetishes and devotional imagery noone should look the same. Boxing the traitor Legions and thus all OTHER cult Marines into a distinct look feels wrong. [...]The Chosen should be the measuring stick for all CSM kits, with ornamented and twisted armour that you MIGHT identify as one Mk, but terribly disfigured by the life in service to the dak gods.

I think that's a fair point. The background should feed into the design – I'd say it's one of, if not the, most important considerations – though a distinctive design relies on at least some identifiable and distinguishing marks. Picking a 'core armour' design helps the army to hang together visually; but you are, of course, able to kitbash these with other armour marks if you want a more rag-tag look.

In any case, I think the Death Guard have only a semi-uniform feel – judging from the Terminator's mish-mash of parts, at least some of the kits have exactly the look you're describing

Don't forget that time flows differently in the warp.

10,000 years in real space might only be a few years or less in the warp.

So it is entirely possible that many CSM are still using their original armour.

Not bad, but not good either, with a small pinch of meh.

I suppose GW should be applauded for at least bringing them out, but to this critical eye, there are a number of issues with them.

For starters, the paint job is too 'clean' too 'smooth' for my liking. Not at all that different from what we've seen over the years. The models themselves can't be blamed for the painter, but this is the image GW is showing to the world, so there you go.

In the hands of another painter, with added oozy paint effects, perhaps the overall look could be more in line with the traditional view of Nurgle.

As for the models themselves, they look as though somebody kit bashed the Chaos Warriors+ Chaos possessed + green paint = new Death Guard.

Nothing wrong with that, but it looks like the sort of thing you could put together with your own bitz box. There are better examples on the dakka gallery in my book.

Death Guard have obviously been stuck in the warp for years, so some mutation is needed, but some remnants of their former loyalty to the Imperium also need to be there, so it's a fine line in getting that balance between the two.

In this instance, though, it's 60/40 in favour of power armour against level of mutations. IMO.

Decent looking models, but I think GW missed a trick on this one. YMMV.

Final rating 3/5

It's like you reviewed a whole movie having only seen it's trailer.

People love to give their opinions for free on the internet

And jumping in to conclusions too, because waiting for solid sources before giving an opinion its for Tau!

Internet its our own version of the Warp.

Or, here's a crazy thought. Form an opinion based on the teaser while the teaser is the only thing available, and revise that opinion based on new information as it comes to light?

the alternative is to lock the thread until the full release, because by that logic ANY opinion - good OR bad - is invalid as we don't have all the information yet

Too many mutations?

I dont think Chaos Worship is for you then...

Yonasu wrote:

 Binabik15 wrote:
I really don't think Chaos Marines of all people should have neatly identifiable armour marks. With thousands of years of raiding, repairs, defectors from other warbands, new recruits, renegade Marines and maybe a mutation or two on top of adorning their suit with trophies, fetishes and devotional imagery noone should look the same. Boxing the traitor Legions and thus all OTHER cult Marines into a distinct look feels wrong. Yeah, maybe the preferred one design, but hardly anyone had a supply of purely on suit of armour and it's been ten thousand years for some and other started just yesteryear to pledge their souls away.

Seeing how old the Berzerker kit is, this is basically the only shot we get at Plague Marines and if they're all cearly Mk. 3 wearing Death Guard bloaters, what would WB/BL/other CSM players do. The release article for the 'zerkers actually made a point from the designers that all WE are Berzerkers, but not all Berzerkers are World Eaters and it'd be a shame if all upcoming Cult Marines kits would throw that design philosphy and background away for more armour mark pedantry. I blame Forgeworld for this and I don't like it. DV Chosen and CSM kit with their, well, chaotic look -> good, all Noise Marines sporting the same armour mark -> baaad. The Chosen should be the measuring stick for all CSM kits, with ornamented and twisted armour that you MIGHT identify as one Mk, but terribly disfigured by the life in service to the dak gods.

PS: I have both Word Bearers and Death Guard that want Plague Marines, so don't think I'm just peeved that I fee left out.

I think youre mistaking Chaos Warbands with Legions. The Legions are remnants of the original thousand sons/death guard and so on, vanilla csm are random warbands that pick up whatever they can find whilst raiding random agri worlds.
The legions are the guys that have been doing organized raids ordered by Magnus and Mortarion, which is shown in their rules as well since they have formation bonuses tied to VotLW that everyone must take.

You're free to model how you like of course. Though in my mind i will use my old CSM as a warband that might have mark of nurgle, but they will just be hangarounds to the real Deaths Guard Legion

*edit* also, its stated in the fluff that many legions have their own loyal forgeworlds or like the thousand sons, their own MKIV forge.

Apologist wrote:

 Binabik15 wrote:
I really don't think Chaos Marines of all people should have neatly identifiable armour marks. With thousands of years of raiding, repairs, defectors from other warbands, new recruits, renegade Marines and maybe a mutation or two on top of adorning their suit with trophies, fetishes and devotional imagery noone should look the same. Boxing the traitor Legions and thus all OTHER cult Marines into a distinct look feels wrong. [...]The Chosen should be the measuring stick for all CSM kits, with ornamented and twisted armour that you MIGHT identify as one Mk, but terribly disfigured by the life in service to the dak gods.

I think that's a fair point. The background should feed into the design – I'd say it's one of, if not the, most important considerations – though a distinctive design relies on at least some identifiable and distinguishing marks. Picking a 'core armour' design helps the army to hang together visually; but you are, of course, able to kitbash these with other armour marks if you want a more rag-tag look.

In any case, I think the Death Guard have only a semi-uniform feel – judging from the Terminator's mish-mash of parts, at least some of the kits have exactly the look you're describing

dan2026 wrote:Don't forget that time flows differently in the warp.

10,000 years in real space might only be a few years or less in the warp.

So it is entirely possible that many CSM are still using their original armour.

I know all that* and I don't begrudge anyone wanting an all Mk3 Death Guard army or wishing for a specific mark of Termis. But from a design point I prefer a strong unit aesthetic that ties it together instead of certain armour quirks. Example: Leering skull faces, bunny ears and honking big chainaxes means Berzerkers, allowing for ancient WE Berzerkers with studded pads sporting their old heresy warplate and new traitors that decided to bolt some brass runes onto their new Mk8 gear and trade their gravguns against chainaxes with a rogue tech priest. In the same kit, given the right bits. And still everyone will clearly look like a 'Zerker. If all legs are distinctly Mk3 and plus crotch armour that is what woud make Plague Marines identifiable instead of bloated bellies, rusted knives and spiked helmets, you'd need to replace quite a big part of the model for a less uniformed look. And seeing a myriad of personalised splinter Warbands or "vanilla" CSMs on TOP OF dedicated Legion armies is something I like more than the current push for Legions over the rest. The 3.5 and the time around it with Index Traitoris articles was such a perfect mix in that regard, still salivating over that thing.

It's not too dramatic for myself, every single model I have for my DG is converted, but in principle I'd prefer Cult kits over overly specific Cult Legionaires kits wearing the armour mark FW decided on for their 30k kits. Everyone else can prefer having an army with the same style armour. But we can discuss it to pass time until their release -and wish for GW to specially cater to OUR wants in the one "Nurgle Marines" kit we'll see for the next twenty years, right .


*Though I want to add just how rare sizeable contingents of Legion Marines sticking together are, most DID break apart into warbands. Outside of the Black Legion, but, hey, they also get tons of defectors from other Legions and bands, so they'd still quite a mix of looks. Okay, and Rubrics, but they're all heretical Tzeentch-loving robots, anyway. And look at Talos. His particular squad has "only" about 300 years after the HH in their personal reality, but basically everyone's armour is mostly or even completely replaced by looted bits and repairs.


Edit: Btw, the first guy in the video and especially the blurry guy behind him with the single horn on his helmet are my favs so far (besides the grinning mutant who is the best thing shown since forever), what is everyone else liking?

While I'm excited about the prospect of all the plastics - I do echo the concerns here with the Death Guard models being a bit over-the-top compared to what I normally like. I'm cautiously optimistic though that they can be bashed with MkIII etc. to create slightly less extreme versions. If anything pick up a set and just cheery-pick bits from it to make the look I want.

Wish I hadn't eBayed those two MkIII squads I had sitting around the other week.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It's like you reviewed a whole movie having only seen it's trailer.

Having been involved in the GW hobby since the 1980s, spent thousands of pounds on miniatures over the years (including Death Guard) painted, glued, and collected more miniatures than I've had hot dinners, played almost every GW game under the sun etc etc

I'd like to think I know something about miniature wargames

I've yet to watch Terminator Genisys, but having watched the other films in the series, I'm fairly sure it features terminators in it

so when I see a few pictures of new GW miniatures, I'd like to think I have some experience and know something about them, which leads me to the conclusions I've made.

 Galas wrote:
People love to give their opinions for free on the internet

And jumping in to conclusions too, because waiting for solid sources before giving an opinion its for Tau!

Internet its our own version of the Warp.

It's almost as if we've already had a teaser trailer showing off a good number of the models in the kit or something, including the paint scheme and style.

The worst part about this 'golden age' nonsense is the upsurge of fanboys who take any opportunity to smugly slate people for giving opinions.

Something else has been bugging about these new Death Guard and I've finally got to the bottom of it: GW has recycled the paint scheme from an old White Dwarf! the swine's!

One of the advantages of having a vast collection of WD magazines is that you can take GW to task if they try and cut back on creativity.

White Dwarf, 347, December 2008, has a painting guide for a Nurgle Chaos Warrior's lord on mutated steed.

It's a nice scheme, and there's nothing wrong with re-using it, but if GW think they can catch me out, they can think again.

And with the new paints we've had since 2008, I'd expect more ooze, not a re-hashed paint scheme

What part of green and brass was gonna change, exactly? :-/ Not sure if serious... the sheer number of Orkmoticons is confusing as to sarcasm or sincerity!

Well. This certainly was a bit of a surprise.

While not a big fan of old papa Nurgle (always been a Khorne fan myself) I have to admit - these models look fantastic.
While I dare say the paint scheme seems a little "clean" I can see why. GW want people to buy these models. If the paint job looks really hard then people might subconsciously not buy them because of the difficult to paint factor.
However, the sculpts are spot on. From the random tentacles, mouths, and general decayed, burst armour it's all top notch. I especially like the smiles - What makes them more horrifying and disturbing is not that they are vicious and murderers, but they are happy. Truly, wonderfully happy that their god loves them for who and what they are and gives gifts like candy. They are happy because of this, and just want to spread his love. Gives me chills, how do you fight an enemy that isn't driven by greed, lust or anger, glory or reward but blissful happiness?

Also, Mortarion hype, that will give old Cyclops red head himself less exposure!

Absolutely, there is a good rational to why GW have done this 'clean' paint scheme, and I get it. It also fits in nicely with their tutorials and their shift to a painting ethos of base, shade, highlight, which I believe has been their whole approach to making and selling paints for younger customers these past 5-6 years.

But from the viewpoint of the average gamer/collector, I fully expect people to go to town with the ooze and decay, and I hope we'll see some good examples of this in the dakka gallery.

I look forward to reviewing the pictures.

There's also Nihilakh Oxide (seen in video) and Typhus Corrosion to shill... gotta sell them special effects...

Don't forget Nurgle's Rot! Part of the reason that painting Nurgle-esque models is so fun is getting to use all of the technical paints

 Arbitrator wrote:

 Galas wrote:
People love to give their opinions for free on the internet

And jumping in to conclusions too, because waiting for solid sources before giving an opinion its for Tau!

Internet its our own version of the Warp.

It's almost as if we've already had a teaser trailer showing off a good number of the models in the kit or something, including the paint scheme and style.

The worst part about this 'golden age' nonsense is the upsurge of fanboys who take any opportunity to smugly slate people for giving opinions.

So are we now giving fanboys tags again when somebody think that people its jumping on conclusions and acting as this its the end of the world? How fast we have reached that point.

Please, I know this its the internet, but I expect respect when I respect others. Restrain from using generic tags, please. Education its a scarse virtue today.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It's like you reviewed a whole movie having only seen it's trailer.

Having been involved in the GW hobby since the 1980s, spent thousands of pounds on miniatures over the years (including Death Guard) painted, glued, and collected more miniatures than I've had hot dinners, played almost every GW game under the sun etc etc

I'd like to think I know something about miniature wargames

I've yet to watch Terminator Genisys, but having watched the other films in the series, I'm fairly sure it features terminators in it

so when I see a few pictures of new GW miniatures, I'd like to think I have some experience and know something about them, which leads me to the conclusions I've made.

Regarding terminator genisys, wow you chose that example poorly The doctor is the terminator and now its DIGITAL... its a mess... anyway

Personally i think they look great and i hope i can avoid as much modeled gunk as possible. If you want to cover your minis in rivers of Nurgles Rot you can, but i dont feel that everyone that follows nurgle Must be a river of pus and refuse. People that cover their models in typhys corrosion do it because they cant paint for gak

Concering the paint job it looks quite similar to their newer Nurgle-Daemons, which is a shame, as GW tends to paint those Daemons horribly clean. Nice models with gruesome details - yet they are doing their best to not show that in their presentation. Maybe to not frighten some parents, I dont know.

Messiah wrote:
A better image of the icon.

Oh baby that plasma pistol

i wana see more bits like that.

the more I see it ... the more I get the impression DG might get a vehicle or something else

 aracersss wrote:
the more I see it ... the more I get the impression DG might get a vehicle or something else

A new Chaos Rhino would be welcome.

 SickSix wrote:
The plague marines shown are a bit too mutated for my taste. But there is a rumor its a dual kit, so maybe there is a toned down option.

Ahahaha no. There'll be 'mutated' and 'extra mutated', blatantly. :-D

That would be kinda left field. It's pretty hard to ignore those vehicles in the picture, but what would that even be? That doesn't even resemble a rhino chassis. The two dozer blades have some pretty significant differences, both to each other and to the existing ones.

It looks more like the GSC rockgrinder tbh. The right one seems to have a sort of dual gatling gun on top as well as a turret on its left....though that could just be a second spiked dome.