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Honestly OP's list isn't bad - you can make any list work.

But it seems like OP has no concept of the tactics to employ in Shadow War. Unfortunately, probably never will.

A list like that could easily work if you advance your guys hidden to negate the shooting advantage of the enemy.

Plus list building is relatively useless in Shadow War. After two games your list is totally different, you're buying new equipment and new guys to take advantage of certain skills and out of action guys. You can start with the "worst" list ever and win a campaign.

Games of SWA aren't the discrete unit where balance is intended to occur. SWA is designed as a campaign.

How can anybody enjoy this?

Man, there's a non-zero amount of rational, functioning, adult human beings out there that love nothing more than a good hard stomp on some of the more sensitive parts of their anatomy at the end of a hard day at work.

With that in mind, it doesn't stretch my imagination that somebody could like a particular miniatures wargame.

I didn't like SWA much, but I feel that 'terrible' is a strong word. I just didn't think it was very fun.

I think my biggest issue is that there's very little variability. Every army basically gets their most basic troop choices and little else.

I mean, for orks, I get to choose between boyz, boyz, boyz, boyz, and boyz. And I thought that was a little dull.

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
I didn't like SWA much, but I feel that 'terrible' is a strong word. I just didn't think it was very fun.

I think my biggest issue is that there's very little variability. Every army basically gets their most basic troop choices and little else.

I mean, for orks, I get to choose between boyz, boyz, boyz, boyz, and boyz. And I thought that was a little dull.

You have to be the first ork player I have seen that doesn't like taking more boys...

The difference between Boyz starts with their gear and ends with whatever advances they may get.

 Jambles wrote:

How can anybody enjoy this?

Man, there's a non-zero amount of rational, functioning, adult human beings out there that love nothing more than a good hard stomp on some of the more sensitive parts of their anatomy at the end of a hard day at work.

Actually...

...That's not a bad description of SWA.

That's about how I would describe my experience playing that horrible game.

Another thing is that csm start relatively weak and end quite strong. Simply because they can get 10 marines on board that are too expensive to amass at start and not so quick to purchase but are great once maxed out. So, you should start cautiously.

@Kriswall
Cultists start at 40, not 45. With your spare points I'd suggest another Autopistol for the guy without

@Traditio

Starting list 1k points:
Champion- Plasma Pistol+Power Sword 325
Gunner- Autocannon 280
Gunner- Autocannon 280
Cultist- Shotgun or Autogun 60
Cultist- Autopistol 55
=1000

You're forced to shoot the closest models in SWA, Cultists body block while your Gunners booty-blast everyone from 40" away. Champion will have 3 attacks, 4 if you do MoK, and provides more High Impact shots with his pistol. As multiple people have pointed out already, if you start the game in a subpar position then take your first turn to hide. Wait for your opponent to extend and jump on them with massive Str7 shots and brutal CC.
If you're wanting to forgo the Cultists and do a more pure CSM force(I don't recommend it, cultists are some of the best throwaway units in the game):

Champion- Bolt Pistol 250
Gunner- Plasmagun+Red Dot 230
Gunner- Plasmagun 210
CSM- Boltgun 155
CSM- Boltgun 155
=1000

Compare to your starting list: 5PA vs 4PA+1Cultist. 3Bolt shots+2D3Plasma vs 4Bolt+1Autogun. More shots, better shots, hitting more reliably, and brings the very important High Impact. The biggest weakness in your list is that you spent way too much on the bling that should be purchased after the first couple games in your campaign. Play a couple games, roll your Gunners up on the Shooting table, maybe take a roll on Muscle to throw guys off the roof with your Champ or chance Guerilla for the scavenger and medic skills.

Priority at the start of the campaign should be: Start with the most expensive items(Gunners with their toy)-> More bodies(9 ASAP)-> Extra Gear. More bodies=More target saturation+More dakka, even if it's only one shot you can pin the enemy fighter for a turn, or focus down a single enemy fighter. The big numbers are 5 and 9, you will win or lose ~90% of your games to bottle checks(Undivided Champion for Ld10?) so you want to bring your 25% and 50% models down/out up as soon as you can. This will also provide backup for when a model/s have to sit out a game, you'll still have guys to put on the table. Win or lose spend a Promethium Cache after the end of the first few missions to bump your buying power to (200) to make this happen. Now buy that bling: PhotoVisor=F--- Your Cover, Red Dot(Hit open targets on 2+, light cover as well if you have PhotoVisor), Camo Gear/Telescopic/Grenades/Inferno Bolts.

Boltguns are plenty fine but are designed with mobility in mind. You can sit still with Telescopic Sights with 36" on Overwatch, or you can move and shoot at something with-in 28". You complain about the negative to hit modifiers, but consider:
Boltgun: Red Dot, Photo Visor, Close Range. Target ran the previous turn and is behind light cover. Hit them on 2+. Heavy cover? Still only need 3+. Heck in in Overwatch it's only 4+, if they're in heavy cover.
Boltgun:Red Dot, Photo Visor: Target in light cover=2+. Ran? Still 3+, 4+ if in heavy cover.

The biggest issue I've seen with the game is people coming in and trying a couple 1k point games, not knowing all the rules, and playing poorly because of it. Play a small/mini-campaign with someone or a small group of folks, learn the ins and outs. I truly believe that you'll come back to the game with a different opinion.

I am really not seeing this as a "tournament" style game, so I am pretty much all in on this one. The OP's issue have lots of workarounds. with 40k going to close to AoS this will be my go to game for 40k. I personally prefer more cultists, they get better...or not, but they are great meat shields so eff em

GodDamUser wrote:

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
I didn't like SWA much, but I feel that 'terrible' is a strong word. I just didn't think it was very fun.

I think my biggest issue is that there's very little variability. Every army basically gets their most basic troop choices and little else.

I mean, for orks, I get to choose between boyz, boyz, boyz, boyz, and boyz. And I thought that was a little dull.

You have to be the first ork player I have seen that doesn't like taking more boys...

Oh, I like boyz well enough, but I like a bit of variety too. Kommandos, burnas, tankbustas, lootas, even though all of those are fundamentally boyz, still bring a lot of variability. Then there's things like mega/nobz, deffkoptas, bikes, etc.

I understand no bikes in SW:A. That'd get a little ridiculous.

OP makes a very good point. This applies to anyone not impressed by this game.

The best way to impress your displeasure upon GW is to PM me that you do not enjoy the game and we will make arrangements for you to send me your SWA.

While this might become a serious physical space issue for me, I'm willing to do this for the miniature gaming community.

You are welcome.


(Hey, my 14th post in 9 years....*AND*.....it was a really nice post!)

Resting One wrote:
OP makes a very good point. This applies to anyone not impressed by this game.

The best way to impress your displeasure upon GW is to PM me that you do not enjoy the game and we will make arrangements for you to send me your SWA.

While this might become a serious physical space issue for me, I'm willing to do this for the miniature gaming community.

You are welcome.


(Hey, my 14th post in 9 years....*AND*.....it was a really nice post!)

There are plenty of us willing to share that burden sir, have no fear!

"Should be sanctioned by the UN"

Comedy gold

 Megaknob wrote:
"Should be sanctioned by the UN"

Comedy gold

Look, I'm just saying...

...people think Guantanamo Bay is bad?

That's nothing.

Amnesty International needs to get involved, because this game...

I wonder if OP threw the controller across the room when he played Metal Gear Solid for the first time because it wasn't Call of Duty

 judgedoug wrote:
I wonder if OP threw the controller across the room when he played Metal Gear Solid for the first time because it wasn't Call of Duty

And in so doing, he accidentally figured out how to beat Psycho Mantis...

 Jambles wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
I wonder if OP threw the controller across the room when he played Metal Gear Solid for the first time because it wasn't Call of Duty

And in so doing, he accidentally figured out how to beat Psycho Mantis...

TANKMEN!! Hells yeah!

 koooaei wrote:
Another thing is that csm start relatively weak and end quite strong. Simply because they can get 10 marines on board that are too expensive to amass at start and not so quick to purchase but are great once maxed out. So, you should start cautiously.

This.

I played a small campaign run with a pal of mine last week, pure marine team of Nurgle CSM vs. his Guard, and it was very fun. It was very clear from the start that this wasn't balls-to-the-walls gang war but 40k: the Shadow Ninja edition. I didn't have the bodies to begin with, his guys exploded if they came into my view. Very tactical, very cautious. After half a dozen games or so, I began to have the edge with more marines. BUT! That didn't mean the Guard was ready to toss in the towel yet, for the three special weapons (heavy flamers and meltas) they can bring are truly capable of forcing the marines into hiding.

I'd say that with CSM, if one decides to go full marines, the balancing factor comes in recruitment: one can't even buy marines without burning promethium or hitting some extras in the missions. You have to keep up your victories if you want to finance that. I like that.

I just can't believe you guys are continuing to engage with this guy [OP]... have you seen his other threads in General for example?

 Gunzhard wrote:
I just can't believe you guys are continuing to engage with this guy [OP]... have you seen his other threads in General for example?

Most of us are mocking him, precisely because we've seen his other threads.

 thekingofkings wrote:

TANKMEN!! Hells yeah!

Hey Captain, lookin' mighty handsome today.