Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

And the Resistance transport article finally shows up,

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2019/6/17/rebellion-reborn/

Still weeks left to wait until we get them, officially. Unofficially the wave can be bought at Barnes and Noble as of a couple of days ago.

And can only be played via Quick Build format, which means not at all for the purists

Points change is tomorrow for those who want to watch (1300hrs Central US time) and it has been announced that it includes wave 4!

Yup. Went to the gym early and all my chores are done just for this.

So what did we think?
Still trying to take in the changes but am a bit miffed that al three of the lists I have used recently have been nerfed into the ground!
Initial thoughts, on the plus side the Shadow Caster got cheaper for all pilots (bar Ketsu) and so did the title and Seevor remains unchanged. Like that Leia crew went up as did B-Wing named pilots.
On the negative side... everything else? Really dislike the way they nerfed the Dreadlok list especially, increases in points for turrets, VTG and the ships!
Not sure on the points for the new wave stuff, i was expecting the N1 to be costed quite highly but with Juke nerfed I am not sure if they have gone a bit too far.

Edit;
Convenient document of notes and changes;
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iuIMz3c645icIUehrRCNmyj7tWTgScD2K8dF_JwKN1w/htmlview?usp=sharing&sle=true&fbclid=IwAR0Xc88Z6twrudWqHr51Q0d81S-1VvES38rohcQ-G2F4LOt4pi7rHgvuzC8#

My list's bid is gone, but it was such a small amount, it didn't matter that much. It's just weird to have a Vader list at 200 pts flush.

I see that the Jedi have gone down, which is good. The Delta 7B has gone up (they really, really don't want Anakin to field it, eh?)

I got to the FLGS and realized I had left home without even checking the Resistance prices. the YT-1300 mercifully went down, as did the Star Fortress, but I'm still not sure I'm going to field the latter. It's sad, because I like the look of the ship.

This is copy pasted from my other haunts but to share my notes on the points:

Rebel Ships:
Points up on Ten and Braylen...get it...don't like it...but get it.

No points drop on the Auzituck? Really?

Hooray for cheaper E-Wings. Corran and Gavin didn't change but both coulda used 5 more points off

HWK-290s down in price is nice

Surprised only Cassian got a points bump up on the Ueuy

Surprised the VCX didn't come down in points

BOOOOOO they took away the Falcon's Illicit! BOOOOO!
There's not that many good mods!

Surprised Dash and the YT-2400 didn't drop in points, it's like 20-25 points too expensive.

Rebel Crew:
Not a regen fan so regen stuff doesn't bother me.

Leia seems right

Wish Magva had went down to about 4

Why did Maul go up when he's shackled to Ezra?

R2D2 astro is fine, but his crew card is junk, why did this go up so high?

Rebel Others:
Ezra gunner came down...maybe use?

All the titles are still way to pricey. Moldy Crow should be 5-9, Outrider 7ish.
---------------------------------------------------------
Empire Ships:
I expected Hatchetman to get a slight nerf

V1 getting a points break is nice, still won't use it

Why make Vader more expensive?

Why make Fel more expensive?

Hooray cheaper Tie Aggressors...(looks ahead to turret costs, barrage rockets, and vtg....F***K FFG!)

Take 6 more points off the Delta and we're good on the Defender

Stop messing with the Phantom!!! (looks ahead to see juke... STOP IT!)

Deci gets a break...that's good, now tell me why the VCX didn't get a break?

Imp Crew:
All good. All good.
------------------------------------------------------------
Scum Ships:
I'll take even more points off BroBots, sure.

Why are you nerfing Drea? What'd she do to you?

Won't complain about the Firespray getting cheaper

HWKs got cheaper but they feel weaker still than the rebels...why not cheapen Palob too? His Initiative is garbage.

Also Torkil should be cheaper still..like 32ish

Won't complain about the Jumpmaster getting cheaper...except for Manaroo...why no love for her?

Kihraxz's not named Talonbane got happier, Illicit for a mod is a good trade.

Lancer got cheaper...except for Ketsu...why I don't know, but I'll take it.

Kimogila got cheaper...but it's still hard to find a use with it's bad Initiative.

Really surprised the M3a didn't get a 4 point break accross the board.

Lok Revenant didn't need a points bump either.

Neither did Guri WTH!?!?!

YV-666 getting cheaper is nice.

Scum Crew:
Still don't get Maul being 12. 8-10 maybe.

Scum others:
Moldy Crow still should be 5-9 my god, it still makes the HWK nearly useless.

I'll take that generous discount on the Shadow Caster though
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CIS Ships:

I'll take the discount on the Hot Rod

Don't get the points bump on the Sith Infiltrator's Force users,
but the generic and droid pilot got nice discounts.

Vulture went down...didn't need to but okay. I mean...(looks at the ESC...why change either of these?)

CIS Others:
Grappling Struts...I still won't use them, but those that do...yeah no big deal.

Probe Droids, Discord missiles...yeah that's fine.

ESC makes no sense to bump up when the carrier of the ordinance got a bump down...doesn't make since.

I'll take further discounts on the Hot Rod's toys though.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Republic Ships:
Cheaper Arcs....well...great if you play Republic...I mean I dabble but I think they are the core of the lists so far.

Ana went up...not surprising...why he's cheaper then his older self on the x1 makes no damn sense.

Delta getting cheaper otherwise is okay.

V-19 getting a points break is nice too...just wish I had more than two.

Republic Others:
7B is stupidly overpriced.
CLT is a nice discount but eating the mod slot hurts.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
First Order:

Nice to see the fighters nearly across the board getting some points drop

But the Upsilon! Holy frak! You nerfed it too hard last time! Stop! Go back! There's no excuse for upping this thing!
It needed to come back DOWN after the last points jack up. Now I'll never fly it much less two.

First Order Others:
HTD is still too expensive, but at least it didn't get jacked up further. Seriously just make it 10 for Door mouse and 2 for everyone ELSE!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Resistance Ships:

Glad the StarFortress got some relief.

Don't see why the Rz-2 got nerfed.

Glad the Scavenged YT-1300 got a break and hey it keeps it's Illicit slot! I like it more than the Rebel one now.

The points drop on some of the lesser T-70 pilots is fine too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Generic Astros:
I don't give a diddly about R2...moving on.

Generic Crew:
Tactical Officer getting a points bump is surprising.

Force Powers:
The Force Powers in general getting cheaper is good, but I see no reason why Hate should be variable based on ship size. It's nice, but it's only working if you're dying.

Generic Gunners:
BOOO FFG BOOOO Veteran Turret Gunner was fine where it is!

Generic Illicit:
I'll take that discount on Contraband Cybernetics all day long.

Don't like Inertial Dampeners so fine to see it go up.

Generic Ordinance:
Not sure why Barrage Rockets went up. Seriously gave hope to my Tie Aggressors and then kicked them in the teeth.

Why are Proton Torps going UP!? Everyone stopped using them when they went to 12! 12 was too much! 10 is okay, in fact the new Plasma's should be 6-7 and you can put Protons back to 9 again and it'd be fair.

Generic Talents:
Not sure why Debris Gambit was an issue.

BOO on Juke going up BOOOOOOO BOOOOO! FFG hates Empire! Gah!

Swarm Tactics being scaled makes sense. Don't like it, but it makes sense.

Trick Shot at 4 stinks, it's nice but it's not THAT powerful.

Generic Turrets:
Dorsal AND Ion getting nerfed? Seriously? Without VTG no one TOOK turrets. And dorsal is a lame duck. Come on this isn't TLT anymore! I was hoping these would drop more if VTG got bumped up.

Answer to all those "don't see why X was nerfed" questions: because someone once mentioned it maybe being an ok tournament list. It's very clear at this point that FFG has very little understanding of what they're doing and is overreacting by nerfing everything that ever succeeds in a tournament. Drea appeared in a successful list? She must be overpowered by at least a few points because everything that wins is overpowered, so nerf her. There was that article about how Vynder is a useful ship? Nerf now. Etc.

Kind of agree with P here ,seems like tinkering just to be seen doing tinkering

I don't pay as much attention to this as you lot do, but I get the feeling they are doing it for the 'Greater Good'.
If a tournament gets stagnant with the same list every time, people adapt to counter it. Evolutionary thinking will say, if given enough time, new lists will get used to block the new-big-thing, and they will become dominant.
So, if FFG tinkers enough to make the winning lists look too expensive, or break them outright, players will either tweak that list, or do something else.

So yes, nerfing the best lists is one way to look at it, but it may also look like a cleansing exercise to encourage variety.

 Skinnereal wrote:
I

So yes, nerfing the best lists is one way to look at it, but it may also look like a cleansing exercise to encourage spending.

fixed it,

FFG seem to be treading down the flail and hope approach to rules tweaks, dropping the cost of a frame and then putting up the cost of said frames stock upgrades or vice versa resulting in a net change of next to fup all suggests a spinning dartboard approach to balance, but hey if they want to GW their game thats up to them

What ships did they do that to? From memory the D7 where the Jedi mostly went down and 7B went up (Vultures as well but they were and are pretty rubbish). Pretty much every other list they 'balanced' out of existence by increasing all the costs. Dual Siths both the ship and Hate went up, Drea and Loks, both ships, turrets and gunner went up, all Phantoms and Juke went up, all the ships in rebel beef and Leia went up etc.

I am not much of a fan of the way they are addressing the points changes but it is not just a cynical marketing ploy. Lets look at this waves rereleased ships;
B-Wing both named pilots went up.
Falcon lost its best trick (access to illicits) and R2 went up.
Decimators gained a crew and got cheaper and they are still crap.
SF and VN both got lots of point drops but none massively.
Wave 5;
M3a stayed the same and is crap (other than Sunny).
Ghost is unchanged but Leia, R2 and turrets went up.
JM5K all bar Manaroo went down and gained gunner and is very doubtful if that has done anything.
TAP went down and it might nearly be viable.

If they wanted to just encourage spending they should have gone about ti much better, like making their rereleases actually be decent viable ships unless they assume everyone will rebuy them for a slightly new model and different paint?

Skinnereal and peregrine were pretty spot on with their analysis, what FFG did is follow their same pattern from the Upsilon nerf, see something that is (or might possibly) dominate the tourney scene and jump up and down on it. They have tried to recost some stuff to make it more viable as well but how well they done with that its hard to know (largely looks unpromising).

 Turnip Jedi wrote:

 Skinnereal wrote:
So yes, nerfing the best lists is one way to look at it, but it may also look like a cleansing exercise to encourage spending.

fixed it,

Yeah, that too.