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Made in us
[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut





New Facebook post about streach goals


This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/12/27 17:49:15


 
   
Made in tw
Longtime Dakkanaut





Oooo, I like that..

   
Made in us
[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut





odd. every few minutes the quote from my post disappears. So I add it back and then it's disappears again.

So I'm adding it to a new post

   
Made in us
Courageous Questing Knight





Central Cimmeria

Honestly that is a great idea, because it holds the amount of stuff they have to produce constant while still incentivizing backers to act as marketers/boosters for their product.
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

 Monkeysloth wrote:
odd. every few minutes the quote from my post disappears. So I add it back and then it's disappears again.

So I'm adding it to a new post



you've probably picked up a smiley or similar, in the text, that can cause it

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Stupid question, but I feel I have lost the narrative thread... So is Beyond the Monolith just a Conan Versus mode game reusing old models, or some multi-IP spanning system? All the references to Batman, Mythic Battles, and Shadowrun has me confused. :-p

11527pts Total (7400pts painted)

4980pts Total (4980pts painted)

3730 Total (210pts painted) 
   
Made in tw
Longtime Dakkanaut





I *think* it's a system compatible with all their ranges individually a battle mode, but I don't know if its balanced enough to let you have cross-range battles (Conan vs. Batman, for example).

Again though, I'm not really sure of that and you would be better by looking at their stuff directly.

What I DO know, is that its primarily old sculpts with a few new ones made for the different army sets.

   
Made in us
Incorporating Wet-Blending






Monolith is also negotiating with other companies to use their miniatures with Monolith's game system (eg. Zombicide, Cthulhu Wars?). CMON announced a top secret KS in January, so the speculation is that it's the Zombicide components you need to use the Beyond Monolith game system.

Most rulesets that have you use your own miniatures are exactly that -- rulesets. I get the impression that Beyond Monolith still needs you to have cards for the miniatures. So I'm curious how much these cards cost and how well Monolith can work with other companies to produce these franchise-specific components. I lump dice-based combat systems together and didn't find Conan's combat system that interesting (energy gems were a good idea, at least).

I'm not going to get into another argument with someone who thinks the way *they* paint is the *only* way to paint, am I?? 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut





 ced1106 wrote:
Monolith is also negotiating with other companies to use their miniatures with Monolith's game system (eg. Zombicide, Cthulhu Wars?). CMON announced a top secret KS in January, so the speculation is that it's the Zombicide components you need to use the Beyond Monolith game system.

Most rulesets that have you use your own miniatures are exactly that -- rulesets. I get the impression that Beyond Monolith still needs you to have cards for the miniatures. So I'm curious how much these cards cost and how well Monolith can work with other companies to produce these franchise-specific components. I lump dice-based combat systems together and didn't find Conan's combat system that interesting (energy gems were a good idea, at least).


There's a youtube video I linked a few posts back. They're looking at $30 for a box to use Zombicide and CW in addition to the $25 for the core VS mode box. I think they'd have more luck if they sold the $25 core set and then did print and play for non-monolith stuff. Much easier to convince your buddy with Zombicide to play against your Conan if the only cost is some paper and toner (as I believe the $25 set covers what 2 people will need). That gets more people playing and more people buying the Monolith packs.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Any impressions on the system from Batman backers? I mean, this entire venture hinges on the system not being good, but being great enough to sustain interest, AND somehow evoke these IPs despite one set of mechanics.

I'd love to hear thoughts on what works or doesn't here.

11527pts Total (7400pts painted)

4980pts Total (4980pts painted)

3730 Total (210pts painted) 
   
Made in us
Incorporating Wet-Blending






I didn't play Batman, but Conan uses the same system.

My problem is the dice-based combat. I'm trying to roll more icons than you're trying to. That's it. You have the usual dice pool mechanics, like rerolls, different types of dice, and other modifiers, but don't tell me you haven't seen that before.

The energy cubes are a fatigue resource mechanic. In other games, you may only have IGO / UGO, or move-attack, move-move, or attack-attack choices. The cubes are similar to fatigue points in some games. Spend the cubes to perform more actions, but damage depletes your cubes. I like this system, although I haven't played it enough. (Gloomhaven fired everything)

Monolith is entering the crowded game space of combat rules. Zombies and barbarians have a good number of different combat rulesets, although Cthulhu and DC have much fewer.

Of course, if the different IPs will be compatible under this game system and you want Batman and Conan teaming up against zombies and shoggoths...

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/12/28 15:09:44


I'm not going to get into another argument with someone who thinks the way *they* paint is the *only* way to paint, am I?? 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

A preview is up showing potential contents (subject to change including the price)

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/806316071/664132760?ref=b71vgr&token=97543db1&fbclid=IwAR2PnHYwrd4casFOPVclbAydYyAVarz-aVMgi-eIL0nhqwZFATMObXku_0M

Note: discounts only apply if you're getting the actual vs game with a leader/bat pledge

implies that you could (without a discount) get the faction boxes by themselves (ie the conan minis and monsters + Tiles which could be attractive)

 
   
Made in om
Longtime Dakkanaut





Muscat, Oman

I like the idea of the game engine being it's own module that's separate from the actual "universe"; that's a lot like how some companies develop videogames, with an underlying engine and a "game" layer sitting on top.

Of course that means that any game you play with it will probably feel the same since the underlying mechanics are identical. I think that has advantages and disadvantages.

--Lord of the Sentinels Eternal-- 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





It really seems like they should be leading off with the new Conan content to expand upon the original game, and then say, "Now that we've got you here, check out our new universal game system!" From the comments it kind of looks like many potential backers are just not feeling the desire to spend $100 to get minis they already have for a versus system they really don't need. I'm not sure what's up with them for this campaign, very late getting info out, objectively poor advertising, overly complicated sales packages, and it looks like not much focus on making new, compelling content to get people to buy in.
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

It's certainly a mess and whoever is on facebook duty today isn't helping

I'm not really sure the new conan content is the big seller though as there isn't really that much, although it's obviously where they're hoping a lot of the backers will come from, as I think too many folk will resent having to 'pay' for stuff they already have (even though dropping the old minis would not reduce the cost much, and if they did people would complain the new stuff was too expensive for 'only' a few minis)


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Looks entirely unappealing to me.

"The Omnissiah is my Moderati" 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut





frankelee wrote:
It really seems like they should be leading off with the new Conan content to expand upon the original game, and then say, "Now that we've got you here, check out our new universal game system!" From the comments it kind of looks like many potential backers are just not feeling the desire to spend $100 to get minis they already have for a versus system they really don't need. I'm not sure what's up with them for this campaign, very late getting info out, objectively poor advertising, overly complicated sales packages, and it looks like not much focus on making new, compelling content to get people to buy in.


What they should have done is do what people have been asking for is reprint of the old game and adding new dedicated Adventure Box stuff like the Red Nails campaign they've been talking about for years then add in Vs mode like they did for Batman. But they claim a reprint will loose them money as they don't think there's enough interest in the boardgame side of conan to justify it which makes you then wonder why they're bothering with Conan?
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





 Monkeysloth wrote:
frankelee wrote:
It really seems like they should be leading off with the new Conan content to expand upon the original game, and then say, "Now that we've got you here, check out our new universal game system!" From the comments it kind of looks like many potential backers are just not feeling the desire to spend $100 to get minis they already have for a versus system they really don't need. I'm not sure what's up with them for this campaign, very late getting info out, objectively poor advertising, overly complicated sales packages, and it looks like not much focus on making new, compelling content to get people to buy in.


What they should have done is do what people have been asking for is reprint of the old game and adding new dedicated Adventure Box stuff like the Red Nails campaign they've been talking about for years then add in Vs mode like they did for Batman. But they claim a reprint will loose them money as they don't think there's enough interest in the boardgame side of conan to justify it which makes you then wonder why they're bothering with Conan?


That's a good question. It feels like they only had $10,000 in development budget and so decided trying to milk that old cow rather than create something new and interesting, hoping people would just buy it. And I don't know, maybe they will, but it certainly is less of a campaign than I was expecting.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut





I haven't followed Batman but I'm thinking Vs must be very popular for that and they're looking at a way to get Vs in to retail as it's much more store friendly then these enormous adventure mode boxes.

With them going after LoTR (probably Amazon's version I'd guess?) I can easily see why they're going for standalone Vs mode and I wouldn't be surprised if part of that $700k is to get retail version of Batman Vs out the door as Monolith has stated several times this KSer is for funding Beyond the Monolith Vs mode which Conan is a part of.

The Adventure Mode stuff really seams to be a late addition by Monolith Matt, from what I've seen on Facebook, as he's the writer of the Monolith Sourcebook from Modpihius, he writes a large number of fan scenarios with some non-employees, so that fans of that mode had something to get excited for.

The Legacy box is also his doing to correct a long standing problem that most Scenarios available for Conan require KS exclusive stuff so you can't play 80% of what's available for the game. This box adds all the paper products you need to play and some of the plastic (with the missing stuff in VS mode boxes or just substitute your own plastic)

So basically its tabletop war-boardgame like Mythic Battles with some Conan the Boardgame stuff added for that group. The problem is they're trying to create a new game that can go to retail, while trying to appease the old fans and fix a problem for retail customers while trying to break the KSer mold (which didn't really work for them with Claustrophobia) and that's just making it a confusing mess.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/12/31 21:43:47


 
   
Made in us
Incorporating Wet-Blending






Absolutely!

I got the impression that, with Adventure mode, they couldn't -- or simply didn't -- design scenarios that allowed interchangeability or variable number of players. Different companies tackle this problem differently:
* With FFG's Descent, they only designed scenarios that used the core plus the expansion set. Number of monsters and Overlord cards drawn per turn scale with the number of players.
* With CMON's Zombicide, the scenarios require six survivors. Any survivors may be used.
* With Gloomhaven, the scenarios "only" use the core box. Any class may be used. Number and difficulty of monsters scale with number of players and character levels.

Matt wrote solo scenarios for the Modiphius Monolith Sourcebook that were popular. However, AFAIK, the Sourcebook is primarily an RPG product. So, with the Adventure Mode, the Conan boardgame has solo content, which was also in demand.

The original Conan boardgame was Adventure Mode and Monolith is adding Versus Mode to it.

Playtesting scenarios is non-trivial, but it's still a standard in many dungeoncrawler games. And hindsight is 20/20, so, while it's a confusing mess, there's an explanation behind it. Or, as the saying goes, "God rested on the 7th day because he didn't have an installed user base."

I'm not going to get into another argument with someone who thinks the way *they* paint is the *only* way to paint, am I?? 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut





 ced1106 wrote:


Matt wrote solo scenarios for the Modiphius Monolith Sourcebook that were popular. However, AFAIK, the Sourcebook is primarily an RPG product. So, with the Adventure Mode, the Conan boardgame has solo content, which was also in demand.


The sourcebook has how to create and design your own Conan Boardgame scenarios and the rules for that. Monolith didn't really use statistics/math/point values for things so the game can't scale as it's just create a scenario, play it, make changes, rinse and repeat until it's done. The solo/co-op campaigns are basically the same rules wise but the book calls out balance doesn't matter as it's not competitive. It also has lots of scenarios using the RPG tiles as well as the introduction of solo/co-op mode which is being refined for this new KSer.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/01/01 06:05:55


 
   
Made in om
Longtime Dakkanaut





Muscat, Oman

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
It's certainly a mess and whoever is on facebook duty today isn't helping

I'm not really sure the new conan content is the big seller though as there isn't really that much, although it's obviously where they're hoping a lot of the backers will come from, as I think too many folk will resent having to 'pay' for stuff they already have (even though dropping the old minis would not reduce the cost much, and if they did people would complain the new stuff was too expensive for 'only' a few minis)

Do you have to pay for stuff you already have? My read was that you could pledge for just the "engine" and sets of cards that updated the old models, I thought you didn't need to buy the actual models again to use your old models with the new engine? I'll need to take another look later today, don't have time right now.

Reading your comment again, I realise now that you might be referring specifically to having to buy old Conan models in order to get the new ones?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/01 04:39:25


--Lord of the Sentinels Eternal-- 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut





Yes and no. Depends on what you want.

For the "Legacy" conan boardgame you buy a set for $99 that has all the new stuff with a few repeats from the Kings Pledge that are used a lot in Scenarios outside of the core box. 32 minis I believe. This box also has tiles for a lot of stuff from the kings pledge and Mythic Battles so you can substitute your own mins for hard to find things (many which are in the new Vs boxes). This also contains a new book of scenarios both traditional (vs a GM) and co-op/solo play using everything in the Core Conan Game and the Legacy box.

If you want the Vs game you need the core Vs box and then buy a faction box to get the tiles (stat cards), tokens, maps and Vs scenarios for the maps and tokens. These boxes are mostly repeats from the Conan boardgame with some new stuff. These are complete factions for retail and contain more figures for a faction then were in the core box or kickstarter freebees. Since these repeats cost Monolith very little to make, but they need to be there as this is a retail box, they're giving discounts via the pledge manager (that you can use for shipping) to previous KSer backers for the cost of those repeats so while you're getting 30 pirates that you already have 20 of you're not paying for those 30 pirates -- only the new stuff in the box.

People have been asking for just the faction box contents without the minis but Monolith is saying that's not economical for them due to having to create two different versions of each box.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/01/01 05:21:53


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Couple of observations after following the project on FB, BGG, and seeing the KS preview page:

1. Monolith needs to seriously change whoever is deciding how to organize and present information to the public. The KS preview page reminds me of the Batman GCC rulebook.....just very poorly organized and confusing (even if the actual written words within are understandable)

2. They should have NEVER launched the KS preview page or ANY info until they had all such things exactly where they needed to be. Originally what they posted on FB, and the KS-preview page, just caused more and more confusion. Since then, I have seen few FB posts by Monolith staff (Matt and Chaz) that have done a much better job explaining a few things. Hopefully their explanations make it to the KS page, and not just in the FAQ section. It also sounds like there are portions of the KS page not posted yet which better explains some major questions as well.

All in all, I am going to be backing because I like the game (have Conan and Batman GCC) but good grief does Monolith have issues with presenting information in a clear simple format. They should hire Paul Grogan or Universal Head to handle this for them, or at least consult. (BTW Matt John is great, but I don't think he's deciding how to present information, just provides an English social media presence and helps clean up English spelling/grammar)
   
Made in us
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Longtime Dakkanaut





As for #2 they launched it so people could complain and offer feedback. A post today said they'd look into providing a single box that just contains all the Vs material from all for 4 boxes with no minis due to feedback -- assuming it's financially viable. I don't think people would be happy with the price if they did. Cardboard is expensive and those molds still need to be paid for.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/01 19:18:59


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Yeah, I get that and generally I agree with the concept. But how could they not guess that people would want to know what's actually in the Legacy box? They didn't post that info on the preview page.
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

It feels very much like they've got a launch date they have to hit (advertising already paid for and going?), but aren't really ready

the incomplete preview would have made more sense if they'd got a month to play with and could actually have made changes (3 days in and it's still incomplete.... wonder if somebody is still on holiday?) rather than just a week with nothing much seeming to happen


Automatically Appended Next Post:
A Minor Delay: Campaign Launch postponed by a week.

Greetings all,
Following the launch of the Draft/WIP page of our Kickstarter campaign, Conan: Beyond The Monolith, many of our loyal backers have requested that some of the miniatures that are bundled in our Monsters Boxes and Conan Faction Boxes would be made available for individual purchase.

This option would allow backers of our previous campaigns to avoid adding duplicates to their existing collections. This is not an easy thing to do, but we really wanted to do what we could in interest of our backers. So, after reflection and some tweaking, we are able to offer some of these miniatures on their own.

The selection of these miniatures was arrived at based on the following criteria.

1. The miniature in question would have to be one contained within its own mold or share a mold with another mini from the selection.
2. We would not offer any miniatures for individual sale that come from a multiple mini mold, as this would result in thousands of miniatures destined for the landfill – not cool.

This change in our plans, as well as some other tweaks we are hoping to make based on your feedback, means we have some additional costing research to undertake and some additional KS page redesigns to prepare.

We aren’t able to squeeze this additional research in before the obligatory Kickstarter validation period, so we are postponing the campaign launch until Monday, January 13.
We sincerely hope that these changes will meet your expectations.

Thanks for your dedication to our games and your valued feedback.

The Monolith Team.


clearly they've realised the need to do a bunch more work

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/02 19:46:03


 
   
Made in us
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Longtime Dakkanaut





Matt took Newyears day off but that's just one day off (and he's doing the KSer page rework). But I think they weren't expecting the level of push back they actually ended up getting to their plans. The initial reaction back in November should have been enough but I think a lot of people ignored the first posts and didn't complain until they saw the draft.

As for this I'm surprised. They said they weren't going to go down that route as they did it for Batman 2 and people were furious due to the cost.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/02 20:40:38


 
   
Made in us
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Longtime Dakkanaut





Think a more official announcement is supposed to come today or tomorrow but this is in a FB group:


We will now be offering “Paper Proxy” factions during the Pledge manager phase. These boxes will contain the maps, scenarios booklets, tiles, and tokens—everything required for Versus game play except the miniatures, their plastic tray, and plastic base rings (a different factory handles the plastics). These require you to add in your own miniatures, whether they are Monolith Conan miniatures or whatever you deem to be appropriate substitutes or “proxies”. They will cost 32 Euros each (price subject to change slightly) and, again, will only show up during the pledge manager phase as an optional addition to your pledge.
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Oh well, that's cheaper than I though they could get them, but I suspect not cheap enough for many (who don't realised paper products are just as expensive if not more so than plastic)

but they're clearly trying hard to please people,

now they just need to come up with a coherent and non confusing way to put it all on KS

 
   
 
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