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 auticus wrote:
However the game (both 40k and aos) are a minefield of negative play experiences if you are playing with the wrong people. There's the challenge.

To be fair, that applies to any game (not just GW stuff) that you can point to.

I play battletech, conquest, and kings of war in an open environment and have had no issues.

If I want to play 40k or aos it has to be in a closed private group.

So I disagree that it applies to any game. At least based on my own experience, most every other non-gw game in an open environment has not been a problem. For whatever reason the various design issues and balance issues in gw games attract certain people a lot more than other games (our conquest and kings of war groups are also larger than our aos group overall so its not just a pure numbers thing where you are going to get the people that make those environments more often the more people you get, though that is logical)

 auticus wrote:
I play battletech, conquest, and kings of war in an open environment and have had no issues.

If I want to play 40k or aos it has to be in a closed private group.

So I disagree that it applies to any game. At least based on my own experience, most every other non-gw game in an open environment has not been a problem. For whatever reason the various design issues and balance issues in gw games attract certain people a lot more than other games (our conquest and kings of war groups are also larger than our aos group overall so its not just a pure numbers thing where you are going to get the people that make those environments more often the more people you get, though that is logical)

To be fair, you did say, "with the wrong people", and that can apply to any group. You're just more likely to get "wrong people" with games that have tournament setups like Warhammer, Warmachine, or X-Wing.

I haven't seen a lot of Battletech tournaments around, so they probably aren't attracting as many of the "wrong people".

Those are all fair points and I agree with you. With the exception that Kings of War in my area is 100% a tournament game and the people that play it seem to also play by a certain conduct that is absent from a lot of my region's aos or 40k players (they know when to play hardcore cut throat, and they know when to play for fun).

But yes the more tournament oriented the game I agree the more "wrong people" you can run into.

I forgot to mention Infinity, which is also predominantly a tournament game in my area; I have had no problem there either.

I think with KOW and Infinity its also that the rules and balance are a lot more tighter, so even playing the "wrong people" you can still get in some good games and not just have to sit an edition or two out because you liked the wrong faction.

And I know this has derailed the conversation from the ghb release so I will leave it at that so we can discuss the ghb release

Endless Spells being limited based on the points level of the game is a good little change.

 Charistoph wrote:

 auticus wrote:
I play battletech, conquest, and kings of war in an open environment and have had no issues.

If I want to play 40k or aos it has to be in a closed private group.

So I disagree that it applies to any game. At least based on my own experience, most every other non-gw game in an open environment has not been a problem. For whatever reason the various design issues and balance issues in gw games attract certain people a lot more than other games (our conquest and kings of war groups are also larger than our aos group overall so its not just a pure numbers thing where you are going to get the people that make those environments more often the more people you get, though that is logical)

To be fair, you did say, "with the wrong people", and that can apply to any group. You're just more likely to get "wrong people" with games that have tournament setups like Warhammer, Warmachine, or X-Wing.

I haven't seen a lot of Battletech tournaments around, so they probably aren't attracting as many of the "wrong people".

Personally, I find it happens the other way. The worst donkey caves are the people who are super invested into either the lore or painting. They take anyone who plays the game in a more thought-out way than 'pretty models go brrr' to be a lesser form of life and are impossible to deal with once they start either playing or talking.

Extremes are generally bad. Holds true here as well.

Admittedly off-topic, but this thread (plus the context of many of his other posts, but it was this thread and him mentioning Infinity that did it) has made me realize Auticus views AoS the same way I view Infinity, and that's a really strange but magical thought.

Anyways, I'm very excited for GHB2020. It does a lot of points changes to make my kharadron lists feel more comfortable, and open up a few more interesting options... but I also decided that Kharadron were completely unplayable from a model maintenance + transport standpoint. Even with magnets I'm finding myself having to repair 1 or more model every game and my ships are just in constant disrepair. Not worth it. Going to have a look through the GHB to draw inspiration for a new army, hopefully!

Rihgu wrote:
Admittedly off-topic, but this thread (plus the context of many of his other posts, but it was this thread and him mentioning Infinity that did it) has made me realize Auticus views AoS the same way I view Infinity, and that's a really strange but magical thought.

Anyways, I'm very excited for GHB2020. It does a lot of points changes to make my kharadron lists feel more comfortable, and open up a few more interesting options... but I also decided that Kharadron were completely unplayable from a model maintenance + transport standpoint. Even with magnets I'm finding myself having to repair 1 or more model every game and my ships are just in constant disrepair. Not worth it. Going to have a look through the GHB to draw inspiration for a new army, hopefully!

Just embrace it. Make them undead Kharadron or scurvy Skaven pirates that have taken over some Kharadron ships.

DIY hero creator got leaked. The system is rough around the edges and as a result the monsters feel fairly generic, with only traits setting them apart. Honestly, the DIY monster heroes don't seem that abusable at first glance (foot heroes are different issue), as it's likely you're going to get cheaper mounts in the army book you're playing.

Can't wait to put my High Warden, BsB and mage on a steed back onto the table!

By agreement will probably work better than them making it official honestly.

Will make people try harder to find a reasonable level instead of feeling empowered to take the obvious power choices.

GW games tend to attract the power tripping crowd. I don't mind paying the DIY tax but at the moment it feels the mathematic is a bit off as the end result that I've created doesn't feel all that powerful in comparison to what's in the books (CoS used for comparison), there's also no removing stats to gain points to spend elsewhere, although I can understand the concern in regard to min-max, it's also freedom taken.

Foot/mounted heroes are a bit more expensive as their legal counterparts but you can get fun builds out of them. The totem - inspire combo is great to represent a BsB and the archetypes are powerful (also free). Haven't found anything that prevents DIY heroes to get artefacts or traits.

Anyway, can't wait to pick my copy on Saturday. Maybe I'll also treat myself with a model. Hopefully we're not going to get hit by second wave of Covid-19.

If they work out to be just-a-bit-high in point cost that is perfect. It means people will use it because they like the character they made instead of it being an upgrade or filling a role the army is supposed to struggle with.

Through image leaks online, Greenskinz and Gitmob Grots (they're back) have points. But from what I looked at shows theyre under a Destruction compendium. Either way I'm happy that Greenskinz are still around points-wise.

If they are slightly overcosted more likely it will be allowed

The heroes on foot are good, it's mostly when you start tinkering with the weapons and monstrous mounts, armour, speed and so on does the allowance evaporate and the result is a bit underwhelming, but considering that you likely can also assign artefacts to them, maybe you don't need to create an absolute beast from the start.

For instance an elf mage (3 DP) on a 'steed' (8 DP), speed upgrade (2x2DP only 10" movement after the upgrades), archmage perk (+1 to cast and dispel, 3DP), mage's staff (2DP, classical weapon) is going to cost you 200 points.

 Grensche wrote:
Through image leaks online, Greenskinz and Gitmob Grots (they're back) have points. But from what I looked at shows theyre under a Destruction compendium. Either way I'm happy that Greenskinz are still around points-wise.

What will be interesting to see is if there is anything preventing Greenskinz units from being taken in the Great Waagh allegiance, because currently they can.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Grensche wrote:
Through image leaks online, Greenskinz and Gitmob Grots (they're back) have points. But from what I looked at shows theyre under a Destruction compendium. Either way I'm happy that Greenskinz are still around points-wise.

What will be interesting to see is if there is anything preventing Greenskinz units from being taken in the Greah Waagh allegiance, because currently they can.

What is interesting according to the image leak it showed that Greenskinz can ally with Gloomspite Gitz, but nothing about Big WAAAGH!!.

I wouldn't be surprised if GW made it to where Greenskinz can't be used in Big WAAAGH!! I'm happy with the fact that they still have points, if not I was going to use them for Warhammer Legends Open Play.

They wouldn't need to ally with big waaagh since they can be taken as normal.

They are saying if someone uses JUST Greenskinz, they could ally with GSG. If they were using Great Waaagh allegiance abilities, they would also use that allegiance's allies.

Bought my GHB, even though I'd seen all the spoilers of stuff, I want to support the book. I wish there was a way to tell GW, "I am buying this book cause hero creator, please expand upon this!" outside of posting into the void on their Facebook.

Carnith wrote:
Bought my GHB, even though I'd seen all the spoilers of stuff, I want to support the book. I wish there was a way to tell GW, "I am buying this book cause hero creator, please expand upon this!" outside of posting into the void on their Facebook.

Have you tried the rules feedback email?

AOSFAQ@gwplc.com

I have not, but I guess I will.

That is similar to posting into the void. But someone on the other end at least can visually see it whereas in facebook they likely can't catch the 10,000 messages that pass across them per day.

Carnith wrote:
I have not, but I guess I will.

You can hit up some of the powers that be on Twitter as well. Its been pretty popular on my feed.

Can someone tell me if you can take lumineth as allies for deepkin.

 Astmeister wrote:
Can someone tell me if you can take lumineth as allies for deepkin.

Right now no, Deepkin can ally into Lumineth tho. They might FAQ it at some point.

What a pity. I have 1000 deepkin and just 500 lumineth.

 Knight wrote:
The heroes on foot are good, it's mostly when you start tinkering with the weapons and monstrous mounts, armour, speed and so on does the allowance evaporate and the result is a bit underwhelming, but considering that you likely can also assign artefacts to them, maybe you don't need to create an absolute beast from the start.

For instance an elf mage (3 DP) on a 'steed' (8 DP), speed upgrade (2x2DP only 10" movement after the upgrades), archmage perk (+1 to cast and dispel, 3DP), mage's staff (2DP, classical weapon) is going to cost you 200 points.

The gargatuan monster is busted tbh. The upgrades for the mount itself are half the DP price of the upgrades to the character for a better baseline damage profile. You can get a 3+ save Ethereal, run and charge, gargatuan with about a bloodthirster of unfettered fury combat statline and either make it a mage, priest, or +1 attack buffer for 400pts. The other end is also pretty nuts considering you can make a 30pt mage or a 30pt commander that gives you +1 attack or +1 save.

If you kind of hover in the middle, the character is fine. But the greater than 300 point range goes a little wacky and the less than 80pt range is straight busted. Especially if whatever you're doing lets you take more than 1.

Don't know if anyone who has the book can confirm, but I read that for matched play Heroes made using this get rounded up in cost to 200 or 400 pts.

If true, that stops the cheap characters being at all breakable.