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Made in de
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





For what it's worth, we DID see a teaser that is 99% Eldar very recently.
   
Made in gb
Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader






 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
With sculptors as talented as these guys, why not create something unique themselves with a bit of background and perhaps a game to go with it?

Copyright law or not, living such a pathetic parasite life leeching of other companies shouldn't be an option for any creative in the industry with even the tiniest bit of self-respect, IMO.


Rude.


But true.
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Germany

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
With sculptors as talented as these guys, why not create something unique themselves with a bit of background and perhaps a game to go with it?

Copyright law or not, living such a pathetic parasite life leeching of other companies shouldn't be an option for any creative in the industry with even the tiniest bit of self-respect, IMO.


Rude.


But true.


It's not parasitic, it's merely providing a replacement for a range that Geedubs pretty much abandoned around 20 years ago. Y'know, filling a niche they decided to do nothing with?

"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado 
   
Made in gb
Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader






 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
With sculptors as talented as these guys, why not create something unique themselves with a bit of background and perhaps a game to go with it?

Copyright law or not, living such a pathetic parasite life leeching of other companies shouldn't be an option for any creative in the industry with even the tiniest bit of self-respect, IMO.


Rude.


But true.


It's not parasitic, it's merely providing a replacement for a range that Geedubs pretty much abandoned around 20 years ago. Y'know, filling a niche they decided to do nothing with?


Except that’s not true.
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Germany

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
With sculptors as talented as these guys, why not create something unique themselves with a bit of background and perhaps a game to go with it?

Copyright law or not, living such a pathetic parasite life leeching of other companies shouldn't be an option for any creative in the industry with even the tiniest bit of self-respect, IMO.


Rude.


But true.


It's not parasitic, it's merely providing a replacement for a range that Geedubs pretty much abandoned around 20 years ago. Y'know, filling a niche they decided to do nothing with?


Except that’s not true.


Except that it's true

"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado 
   
Made in gb
Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader






GW “abandoned” Craftworld Aeldari 20 years ago?

Apart from plastic jetbikes, farseer, wraithkinight, whatever that plane thing is called, wraithguard, an autarch, howling banshees and Jain Zar all released in the last 10 years.

I’m not suggesting there isn’t a long way to go or room for improvement, but abandoned?
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




I mean it is blatant what the original kickstarter was doing. They are so obviously ripping Eldar off. It would be very easy (and I hope they do this) to tweak the design; it would probably be all the better for it.

Copyright is abused by corporations a huge amount, but this kind of situation is where I have some sympathy.
   
Made in gb
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex







 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

Except that it's true

It's no more parasitic than designing a phone case which fits iphone proportions, a keyboard that works with a certain type of motherboard, or a custom tyre that fits a car. That it is to say, not very. I've never understood this need some GW hobbyists have to imagine that the Warhams world is some special commercial snowflake that morally deserves to be immune to the same level of market competition as every other sector of business.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/25 10:41:52



 
   
Made in gb
Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader






 Ketara wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

Except that it's true

It's no more parasitic than designing a phone case which fits iphone proportions, a keyboard that works with a certain type of motherboard, or a custom tyre that fits a car. That it is to say, not very. I've never understood this need some GW hobbyists have to imagine that the Warhams world is some special commercial snowflake that morally deserves to be immune to the same level of market competition as every other sector of business.


None of your analogies are even remotely appropriate.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I’ve never understood why some people think that, just because GW owns is the biggest IP in wargaming, it’s okay for literally anybody to ripoff that IP.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/25 10:46:25


 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Germany

If GW doesn't want people to rip-off their IP, they shouldn't give them such easy and blatant opportunities to do so by their own inaction.

"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado 
   
Made in gb
Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader






 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
If GW doesn't want people to rip-off their IP, they shouldn't give them such easy and blatant opportunities to do so by their own inaction.


?!

You’re literally taking nonsense.
   
Made in gb
Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard







But GW still manufacture and sell a whole range of Eldar models.

Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!

Terranwing - w3;d1;l1
51st Dunedinw2;d0;l0
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 
   
Made in gb
Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader






 Flinty wrote:
But GW still manufacture and sell a whole range of Eldar models.


Haven’t you heard? GW has sold or released a single Eldar mini for the last 20 years

   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Germany

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
If GW doesn't want people to rip-off their IP, they shouldn't give them such easy and blatant opportunities to do so by their own inaction.


?!

You’re literally taking nonsense.


If GW doesn't want people to make bootleg Eldar, Guard, Orks et al, they should simply make their own that aren't inferior to third party.

"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

 Ketara wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

Except that it's true

It's no more parasitic than designing a phone case which fits iphone proportions, a keyboard that works with a certain type of motherboard, or a custom tyre that fits a car. That it is to say, not very. I've never understood this need some GW hobbyists have to imagine that the Warhams world is some special commercial snowflake that morally deserves to be immune to the same level of market competition as every other sector of business.


Except GW does have competition. Warmachine, Dropfleet, Kings of War, Mantic, Warcradle and dozens of other firms are producing models all the time. The STL market is bloated with choice even now and its still a very new and young market.

GW has competition in the market.



And just like I wouldn't want to see someone copy-catting Dropfleet models we shouldn't be encouraging copycatting GW models either. Sure GW are the "big" firm but that doesn't mean they should have less protections than the smaller ones. By all means lets have inspired by designs and alternate designs and variety and choice in the market. Let's have Raging Heroes and Wargame Exclusive the like who produce similar but not the same designs as options in the market. But lets not get to the point where we are promoting what is basically "STL Recasting" or tiny tiny modifications and such.

Like others I'd rather see designers spend their hours and work producing new ideas and fresh concepts even if its based upon the army structure of an existing model line. At the very least we should be showing equal respect to designers no matter if they work for themselves or if they work for a big firm.



Sure GW doesn't "need" us to defend them, but I do think that the community needs a healthy attitude toward this kind of stuff and that if we promote what is inherently an unhealthy concept to thrive then we will hit problems down the road. When firms based in poorer nations can underprice any other firm with stls; when its not just GW they copy but other firms and designers. When we suddenly end up in a race to the bottom with prices no one wins in the long run.

A Blog in Miniature

The Swarm Arises

Do you ever notice, sometimes, there's an extra post? 
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

I’ve never understood why some people think that, just because GW owns is the biggest IP in wargaming, it’s okay for literally anybody to ripoff that IP.


Are you unironically saying this?

Warhammer? The Frankestein IP made of everybody favourites IP? The Smash Bros of the IP's?

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

 Galas wrote:
 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

I’ve never understood why some people think that, just because GW owns is the biggest IP in wargaming, it’s okay for literally anybody to ripoff that IP.


Are you unironically saying this?

Warhammer? The Frankestein IP made of everybody favourites IP? The Smash Bros of the IP's?


As much as DnD's is as well.

A Blog in Miniature

The Swarm Arises

Do you ever notice, sometimes, there's an extra post? 
   
Made in gb
Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader






 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
If GW doesn't want people to rip-off their IP, they shouldn't give them such easy and blatant opportunities to do so by their own inaction.


?!

You’re literally taking nonsense.


If GW doesn't want people to make bootleg Eldar, Guard, Orks et al, they should simply make their own that aren't inferior to third party.


The only appropriate response to this argument ...

   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Germany

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
If GW doesn't want people to rip-off their IP, they shouldn't give them such easy and blatant opportunities to do so by their own inaction.


?!

You’re literally taking nonsense.


If GW doesn't want people to make bootleg Eldar, Guard, Orks et al, they should simply make their own that aren't inferior to third party.


The only appropriate response to this argument ...



I assume it is the only appropriate response, due to you having no actual counterargument.

"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado 
   
Made in gb
Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader






 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
If GW doesn't want people to rip-off their IP, they shouldn't give them such easy and blatant opportunities to do so by their own inaction.


?!

You’re literally taking nonsense.


If GW doesn't want people to make bootleg Eldar, Guard, Orks et al, they should simply make their own that aren't inferior to third party.


The only appropriate response to this argument ...



I assume it is the only appropriate response, due to you having no actual counterargument.


You believe whatever you like. I’ve countered some of the nonsense you wrote, but you ignore that and just come up with more. So I’m done with you.
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Germany

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
If GW doesn't want people to rip-off their IP, they shouldn't give them such easy and blatant opportunities to do so by their own inaction.


?!

You’re literally taking nonsense.


If GW doesn't want people to make bootleg Eldar, Guard, Orks et al, they should simply make their own that aren't inferior to third party.


The only appropriate response to this argument ...



I assume it is the only appropriate response, due to you having no actual counterargument.


You believe whatever you like. I’ve countered some of the nonsense you wrote, but you ignore that and just come up with more. So I’m done with you.


I don't see what's nonsenonsensical about the concept of 3rd party miniatures providing alternatives for what GW fails to provide - aka Aspect Warriors sculpted in the current century or Imperial Guard regiments that aren't all inbred Cadians or Catachans.

"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado 
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





It's a shame it got taken down, they look a lot better than GeeDubs' offerings.

   
Made in gb
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex







MonkeyBallistic wrote:
 Ketara wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

Except that it's true

It's no more parasitic than designing a phone case which fits iphone proportions, a keyboard that works with a certain type of motherboard, or a custom tyre that fits a car. That it is to say, not very. I've never understood this need some GW hobbyists have to imagine that the Warhams world is some special commercial snowflake that morally deserves to be immune to the same level of market competition as every other sector of business.


None of your analogies are even remotely appropriate.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I’ve never understood why some people think that, just because GW owns is the biggest IP in wargaming, it’s okay for literally anybody to ripoff that IP.


I don't think you understand what parasitic means in this context. These models are not wholly reliant upon GW for inspiration. They are not carbon copy ripoffs. They could be used as representative of any number of other factions in any number of other wargames. Look at the 'Guardian' proxies. There are design elements similar to those used by GW's eldar, but nothing that would be protectable (smooth/rounded with embedded rocks does not equal a defendable concept). The helmets are completely different. The shoulder spikes are curved, not straight. The armour segments are laid out differently (look around the knees, for example). Even the Heavy Weapon platform is completely fresh/new and looks nothing like the GW one.

The models are sufficiently different that they are in no way a carbon copy. Kromlech's orks are closer than these.

An iphone compatible case may well fit an iphone. But it also fits any other phone or pocket device of those dimensions. Likewise, these models could be used any number of other wargames. They are therefore not parasitic in any sense. They are fully capable of standing and existing independently as a design concept. Even if they have been initially created with compatibility in mind.

Overread wrote:
Except GW does have competition. Warmachine, Dropfleet, Kings of War, Mantic, Warcradle and dozens of other firms are producing models all the time. The STL market is bloated with choice even now and its still a very new and young market.

GW has competition in the market.

I provided specific examples of the type of competition I'm referring to, namely aftermarket parts (not 'competition' in a general sense). It's considered a broad enough sector to have business reports drawn up by analysts in certain fields of industry. It was also directly cited in the Chapterhouse case. It's an entirely valid field of competition.

Games Workshop does not have the right to avoid having other companies providing product which does not infringe upon their IP but is compatible with it. Every other company has to put up with it and GW are not special.

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2021/04/25 11:31:52



 
   
Made in de
Booming Thunderer




Hamburg

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
If GW doesn't want people to rip-off their IP, they shouldn't give them such easy and blatant opportunities to do so by their own inaction.


?!

You’re literally taking nonsense.


If GW doesn't want people to make bootleg Eldar, Guard, Orks et al, they should simply make their own that aren't inferior to third party.


The only appropriate response to this argument ...



I assume it is the only appropriate response, due to you having no actual counterargument.


You believe whatever you like. I’ve countered some of the nonsense you wrote, but you ignore that and just come up with more. So I’m done with you.


I don't see what's nonsenonsensical about the concept of 3rd party miniatures providing alternatives for what GW fails to provide - aka Aspect Warriors sculpted in the current century or Imperial Guard regiments that aren't all inbred Cadians or Catachans.

You‘re shifting the goalposts here (again).

A few posts back you said copying/updating GW Eldar designs was OK because they‘ve abandoned them so everybody should be free to sell their ripoffs. Except GW didn‘t abandon them, they‘re still selling all the (oldish) Eldar. Just because you don‘t like those does not mean GW have abandoned Eldar.

Now you say it‘s fine for copycats to step in when the IP holder has not updated their product after a certain timespan. How long would that timespan be exactly, in your opinion? Or does that depend on how the old/original sculpt holds up against more modern sculpts, and who will judge that?

I would like to see more diverse models generally for Warhammer purposes, and also from smaller independent people. But I can totally see that GW have to protect their designs if they don’t want to become obsolete.

From the independents, doing these kind of copies, even if well made, looks kind of lazy though. The only reason they’re doing this is because people will buy them in larger numbers, precisely because they look like and can stand in for GW‘s Eldar.
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
GW “abandoned” Craftworld Aeldari 20 years ago?

Apart from plastic jetbikes, farseer, wraithkinight, whatever that plane thing is called, wraithguard, an autarch, howling banshees and Jain Zar all released in the last 10 years.

I’m not suggesting there isn’t a long way to go or room for improvement, but abandoned?


Cwe have had 1 kit on average every 2 years for yhe past decade.

Marines have averaged 15 per year.

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in us
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon





And what makes people think that several Aspects haven't already been redone, and are just waiting for the release schedule to catch up?
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Germany

 bullyboy wrote:
And what makes people think that several Aspects haven't already been redone, and are just waiting for the release schedule to catch up?


The fact GW largely exhausted any goodwill they had by making nothing but hundreds of Primaris for several years straight while other armies needed updates much more.

"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




Tacoma, WA, USA

 the_scotsman wrote:
 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
GW “abandoned” Craftworld Aeldari 20 years ago?

Apart from plastic jetbikes, farseer, wraithkinight, whatever that plane thing is called, wraithguard, an autarch, howling banshees and Jain Zar all released in the last 10 years.

I’m not suggesting there isn’t a long way to go or room for improvement, but abandoned?


Cwe have had 1 kit on average every 2 years for yhe past decade.

Marines have averaged 15 per year.
OK? And that means what exactly in the context of this discussion? Maybe Marines sell 30x as much as Eldar so they get 30 times the support?
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Germany

 alextroy wrote:
 the_scotsman wrote:
 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
GW “abandoned” Craftworld Aeldari 20 years ago?

Apart from plastic jetbikes, farseer, wraithkinight, whatever that plane thing is called, wraithguard, an autarch, howling banshees and Jain Zar all released in the last 10 years.

I’m not suggesting there isn’t a long way to go or room for improvement, but abandoned?


Cwe have had 1 kit on average every 2 years for yhe past decade.

Marines have averaged 15 per year.
OK? And that means what exactly in the context of this discussion? Maybe Marines sell 30x as much as Eldar so they get 30 times the support?


The only reason Marines would sell better than other factions, is the fact other armies can barely dream of having anywhere close to the levels of support Marines get in literally every aspect, and thus the players of said armies slowly stop buying from Geedubs and move on to alternatives that actually give them new models.

"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






"It is fine for GW to not update aspect warriors for 25+ years and prevent anyone else from addressing demand for decent quality aspect warriors not made of finecrap at GW prices.

It is lazy for independent miniature designers to address demand for modern better quality aspect warriors."

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
 
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