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Karol wrote:

dogboy311 799052 11149915 wrote:

You sir seem too be the exact person this code was made for. Like how hard is it too not use offensive language. I assume you are an adult right, so it should be pretty easy too not be offensive. Also just give your opponent a heads up about your unpainted army what’s the big deal. Most people won’t care but some will appreciate it. And really why not remind you opponent about something they missed, it’s a game of PLASTIC TOY soldiers, not high stakes poker. And yeah don’t waste people’s time like why get so upset on that? And well measuring your models movement is actually an important part of the game so why not try your best too be accurate. And holy crap a company puts in a set of guidelines for playing a game where everyone can have fun and not be a douche bag. Like get over it man. Like most thing the most vocal complainers are usually the most guilty. Remember it’s a game of plastic toys. Lol.

It is a high cost , in money game, where people win prizes, on top of the win being a prize in itself. Have you never seen guys from two streets beat the gak out of each other durning a "friendly" game of hockey? The don't use offensive language point doesn't work without a list of things that are considered to be offensive, otherwise your opponet can say that everything is offensive. On top of that, for people that have problems with understanding social interaction, no clear guidliness are a horrible thing. 2 weeks ago I was thrown out of class, because my reaction to a students saying their dog died was saying "good". Because for the last 3 months she has been talking how sick it was and how much in pain it was. MtG has a set of guildlines and a whole code of conduct. If GW wants to implement a , don't be offensive policy, they better write one down, because different people find different things offensive.

I find people wearing Che or Mao t-shirts deeply offensive, on the other hand, I was chastised for my cross getting out from under my shirt durning an event in germany 2 years ago. I can easily imagine games where both people find neither , both or one of the two offensive.

What are you talking about man? It’s a game of moving plastic toy soldiers around plastic buildings or plastic trees. And I’m from Canada where we play a metric ton of hockey and fights are extremely rare unless you’re watching NHL. Nice try but you really are the reason this set of guidelines should be implanted into 40k. You are right that it seems silly too have too add stuff like this, unless of course you read your comments and then you see exactly why they Should be. Remember it’s plastic toys the real goal of this stuff is too have fun, I assume you can only have fun if you are being the big man on campus. Also you should have been thrown out of class for that comment. It was unnecessary and absolutely a a case of being a jerk. You could have just said nothing.

I pretty much already play this way and only play with people who are like this. Except for measuring. Measure the closest point and then move your dudes of to that. I am not about wasting time.

a_typical_hero wrote:

If you want, you can make a mockery of everything.

Thank you, I will.

a_typical_hero wrote:

Or you can think about the goal of the guidelines and not try to interpret them as badly as possible.

It continues to baffle me why people look to a company with such anti-consumer practises and thinks to themselves "Yes, clearly these are the people who should dictate my ethics to me. Please educate me, sempai GW!".

dogboy311 wrote:

You sir seem too be the exact person this code was made for.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

dogboy311 wrote:
Like how hard is it too not use offensive language.

If you're seriously asking this question, I can only assume that you have been completely out of touch with any sort of news or general affairs for the last 20 years or so.

dogboy311 wrote:
Also just give your opponent a heads up about your unpainted army what’s the big deal.

What's the big deal with playing with unpainted miniatures in the first place?

dogboy311 wrote:
And really why not remind you opponent about something they missed, it’s a game of PLASTIC TOY soldiers, not high stakes poker.

Okay, now I see that in spire of trying to claim some sort of moral high ground you are in fact arguing in bad faith.

I did not say that I would not remind my opponent about rules. What I said was that it was a lot easier to remind people about rules back when there were fewer rules and the number of interactions was limited. Trying to keep in mind every possible stratagem that could affect a given interaction is a hell of a lot harder even when it comes to the ones in my own book, to say nothing of those in my opponent's army.

dogboy311 wrote:
And yeah don’t waste people’s time like why get so upset on that?

Another bad faith argument. Two more and we'll have Connect Four!

dogboy311 wrote:
And well measuring your models movement is actually an important part of the game so why not try your best too be accurate.

I apologise. Clearly my past opponents and I have been having fun wrong by prioritising speed over accuracy with large units. Please advise me, oh great prophet of the almighty Games Workshop, how much plastic tat must I buy to earn forgiveness?

dogboy311 wrote:
And holy crap a company puts in a set of guidelines for playing a game where everyone can have fun and not be a douche bag. Like get over it man.

A person points out a few absurdities in those rules. Like get over it man.

dogboy311 wrote:
Like most thing the most vocal complainers are usually the most guilty. Remember it’s a game of plastic toys. Lol.

Why hello there, Mr. Pot. I suppose I am looking a little black today, yet I can't help but note that your own colour is also on a tad on the dark side.



Just to be completely clear, I'm not saying that players shouldn't be polite and respectful towards their opponents. Of course they should (indeed, as others have said, this is something that really shouldn't need to be said in the first place). What I'm trying to get at is that if a company is intent on putting a 'page of ethics' for its players, then it should really aim for those ethics to be universal and non-contradictory ones. Instead, it includes stuff like elitist attitudes towards painted models (and wherever you stand on this particular issue, I think it's fair to say it's something of a heated topic - not one that's been 'settled' with clearly agreed ethical and unethical sides). Then you've got contradictory rules, like being told not to waste time but also told that we must measure every single move carefully and accurately - in spite of the fact that measuring only the front models of a unit and moving the rest into position behind them is a common way for players to avoid wasting time. It also seems both anti-consumer and outright hypocritical of GW to act like conversions and 3rd party models are some sort of heresy for which players must get special permission (especially when one of the main reasons for the use of 3rd party models is that they've left some ranges to languish for literal decades).

 vipoid wrote:

It continues to baffle me why people look to a company with such anti-consumer practises and thinks to themselves "Yes, clearly these are the people who should dictate my ethics to me. Please educate me, sempai GW!".

I neither wrote nor implied this.
You are offended by guidelines which most of the posters here summarise as "don't be a dick" and have to make "unsolvable rocket science" out of it to show that it is a bad guideline.

Your example was to be completely silent during a game to not possibly offend anyone.
Because how else could two adults spend 2-3h together playing a tabletop without offending each other.

Your post says alot about you.

No. They're not going to officially adopt in Sigmar either.

As a bit of a reminder, GW is not the only company that has done something like this...

I am ok with setting out clear expectations, even if the community doesn't necessarily follow them. There is nothing wrong with putting that out there.

The community is vast and varied, and you can't put 80 people in a sardine can and expect them all to get along. Having some standardized expectations of behavior is fine.

Should it be needed? Well, I would think it shouldn't be, but we have all acted in a way that is not commensurate with our own societal expectations before, and even in the context of this game. It's a good reminder of what we should attempt to be, not a rigid structure designed to eliminate those unworthy. We are all human, we all have bad days, and we have all said and done things that we rather wished we hadn't. In recognition of that, having this in a rule book certainly doesn't hurt.

We, as a gaming community, when splintered into our various social orbits and ingroups, already do this. Those that act outside of the various forms of socially acceptable behavior is typically not invited back, or have trouble picking up a game until their behavior changes. this is just providing a more comprehensive list of baseline expectations that others should have and you should have of yourself. if you choose to adhere to these rules or not, the ingroup will always be the final say on what is accepted, not GW or a page in a book.

A special note on hygiene...

As a big buy (I'm 6'1", I weigh 268lbs right now) I am constantly scared of my personal hygiene. the last thing I ever want is to be the stinky guy because that's just awful, embarrassing, and socially stigmatizing. But believe it or not, there are people who do not know how to take care of themselves in an appropriate or functional way. I don't want to go on some weird social work tangent, but a quiet conversation can go a long way with someone who is an "offender".

It's hard to do, but I've had to do it with many people when I organized events for my local stores for other miniature games and for magic the gathering

ERJAK wrote:
No. They're not going to officially adopt in Sigmar either.

Who isn't? GW is the one who put this in the new rules release. It's literally the first page after the table of contents in the 44 page free rules release they did yesterday.

 vipoid wrote:

a_typical_hero wrote:

If you want, you can make a mockery of everything.

Thank you, I will.

a_typical_hero wrote:

Or you can think about the goal of the guidelines and not try to interpret them as badly as possible.

It continues to baffle me why people look to a company with such anti-consumer practises and thinks to themselves "Yes, clearly these are the people who should dictate my ethics to me. Please educate me, sempai GW!".

dogboy311 wrote:

You sir seem too be the exact person this code was made for.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

dogboy311 wrote:
Like how hard is it too not use offensive language.

If you're seriously asking this question, I can only assume that you have been completely out of touch with any sort of news or general affairs for the last 20 years or so.

dogboy311 wrote:
Also just give your opponent a heads up about your unpainted army what’s the big deal.

What's the big deal with playing with unpainted miniatures in the first place?

dogboy311 wrote:
And really why not remind you opponent about something they missed, it’s a game of PLASTIC TOY soldiers, not high stakes poker.

Okay, now I see that in spire of trying to claim some sort of moral high ground you are in fact arguing in bad faith.

I did not say that I would not remind my opponent about rules. What I said was that it was a lot easier to remind people about rules back when there were fewer rules and the number of interactions was limited. Trying to keep in mind every possible stratagem that could affect a given interaction is a hell of a lot harder even when it comes to the ones in my own book, to say nothing of those in my opponent's army.

dogboy311 wrote:
And yeah don’t waste people’s time like why get so upset on that?

Another bad faith argument. Two more and we'll have Connect Four!

dogboy311 wrote:
And well measuring your models movement is actually an important part of the game so why not try your best too be accurate.

I apologise. Clearly my past opponents and I have been having fun wrong by prioritising speed over accuracy with large units. Please advise me, oh great prophet of the almighty Games Workshop, how much plastic tat must I buy to earn forgiveness?

dogboy311 wrote:
And holy crap a company puts in a set of guidelines for playing a game where everyone can have fun and not be a douche bag. Like get over it man.

A person points out a few absurdities in those rules. Like get over it man.

dogboy311 wrote:
Like most thing the most vocal complainers are usually the most guilty. Remember it’s a game of plastic toys. Lol.

Why hello there, Mr. Pot. I suppose I am looking a little black today, yet I can't help but note that your own colour is also on a tad on the dark side.



Just to be completely clear, I'm not saying that players shouldn't be polite and respectful towards their opponents. Of course they should (indeed, as others have said, this is something that really shouldn't need to be said in the first place). What I'm trying to get at is that if a company is intent on putting a 'page of ethics' for its players, then it should really aim for those ethics to be universal and non-contradictory ones. Instead, it includes stuff like elitist attitudes towards painted models (and wherever you stand on this particular issue, I think it's fair to say it's something of a heated topic - not one that's been 'settled' with clearly agreed ethical and unethical sides). Then you've got contradictory rules, like being told not to waste time but also told that we must measure every single move carefully and accurately - in spite of the fact that measuring only the front models of a unit and moving the rest into position behind them is a common way for players to avoid wasting time. It also seems both anti-consumer and outright hypocritical of GW to act like conversions and 3rd party models are some sort of heresy for which players must get special permission (especially when one of the main reasons for the use of 3rd party models is that they've left some ranges to languish for literal decades).

Wow just wow. You really are a special one aren’t you. Lol. It does not matter what you think about the company, it’s a basic guideline not too be a jerk. Lol And everyone of your arguments really shows the type of person you are. And not being offensive is rather easy just act like a decent human, simple. I’m also pretty sure you’re a real peach at playing connect 4. You are the just trying too defend bad behaviour. And as for bad faith arguments you seem too be the king of them. And yes it’s plastic toys, I don’t care how much you think otherwise it’s plastic toys that we enjoy playing with. Lol. So yeah I don’t play this game with the same machismo as you. But in the end it’s all pretty meaningless, it’s just a way too spend some time with friends and hopefully make some new ones. So just play the game and don’t be a waste of skin. And hey if you have a group of like minded friends, well good for you. I hope you guys at least have fun.

"Don't be an ass" doesn't need to be in the rulebook.

a_typical_hero 799052 11149945 wrote:
What is and isn't offensive depends on the person you are playing with. How do you know what topics, jokes and slurs are okay when you hang around your friends and family? Get to know the person, play it safe. In case of doubt, leave out politics, religion, sex and dark humour for the first few games. You will come to an understanding naturally.

Slurs are easy. No slurs are or should be acceptable durning the game. The problems with rules like that is how they end up being used. You are at an event. Someone says , nice army, and you call a judge and say that you find him doing so offensive and patronising, and he get his first warrning of the day. If he gets two play against 2-3 people from your team, they can all call him out for anything. Because there is no GW, unlike with MtG, code of conduct, so suddenly it is the the offensive persons "job" to be offensive, but everyone elses job to not feel offended. And if people can use something to get an edge, and it is ill defined or vogue on top of that, they will. Imagine if a sports like the one I do, had a rule saying , no moves that are dangours to the opponent life or health can be performed, and it is the opponent that decides, if he felt in danger. Would kill any form of competition.

a_typical_hero 799052 11149945 wrote:
I totally get your point of view. You simply expressed it very poorly. "I'm sorry to hear that, at least she is not suffering anymore" might have flown better.

You know very well that this doesn't work like that. I said "good" and the teacher said :"out to the principles office" everything after that is social norms, because the official warrning with it being signed in to my papers already has been decided. And again this is stuff I, with my problems with understanding, specific social interactions have to learn in action, because there is no book with "if a person in your class or school says that their family member or animal was sick and in pain, it is socially not acceptable to voice approval of the persons death, and end" and that is on top of bs stuff like "don't lie" etc.

If GW wants to implement such rules, they have the full right to do it. But they have to remember that the rules are going to be used by people in a compatitive setting, which is every game. And not every interaction can be covered with, oh just play vs nice people, that think and react exactly like you, because then only twins and triplets would be able to play GW games.

First GW should put forth a code of conduct. Even the simple and obviouse stuff should be there. We don't want this things to be part of the game, and then a list of things. Just like forum rules. And make them clear. So some donkey-caves after you tell them your armies uniforms are based on the 1886 French ones, starts waving the no politics durning game flag. Clear cut and easy to understand is best, even if you someone doesn't like it, it sure the hell beats out of unclear and vogue.

For example, I don't like the painted rules GW tries to enforce on people, making it seem as if it was mandatory to play and enjoy the game. But at the same time the rules are clear, and my army is painted, so I follow the rules given by GW.

Blastaar wrote:
"Don't be an ass" doesn't need to be in the rulebook.

Based on the comments in this thread, much less some of the ones on this board? It probably does.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Karol, unless someone is being a sacastic dickweasel no judge is going to yellow card someone for complimenting your army. Your strawman's pants are on fire.

I love this!

Ask your opponents permission to play unpainted models!

That's what I'm talking about!



Never deliberately waste time during a game has tournament Ork players game over
That's a solid % of their win rate for a few editions.


Aussies will not like the removal of the C word

Seabass wrote:


Should it be needed? Well, I would think it shouldn't be, but we have all acted in a way that is not commensurate with our own societal expectations before, and even in the context of this game. It's a good reminder of what we should attempt to be, not a rigid structure designed to eliminate those unworthy. We are all human, we all have bad days, and we have all said and done things that we rather wished we hadn't. In recognition of that, having this in a rule book certainly doesn't hurt.

Let me intreduce you to the history of wrestling then. In its beginings among the Greeks, they very fast found out a few things about , sure there be rules in events. First thing was that, when a master of multiple events wins, by breaking the hands and fingers of his opponents every time, it lowers the attendance of the event, and is kind of a "unfair". Later with another champion, they revised the rules for kicking. Leg drops were always part of the sport, but an Ephesian champion got so good at kicking his opponents in the groin area, that he managed to kill two of his opponents durning Olympic events, you know those holy ones, no war, competition watched by the gods where people shouldn't kill each other. Groin kick and groin punchs were made illegal.


I think that GW games would gain a lot, not from the "don't be an donkey-cave" as a rule, but with an official code of conduct. What can be done, what can not be done. How to you call a judge, how to you resolve a dispute in another way the throw a dice, because I don't remember it, but my trainers do and matchs being decided by a refs coin toss were hated in every sport ever, specially by people that performed the sport.

And that is a problem before stuff like, someone from the US comes to europe with his concept of what is okey, and finds out it is drasticaly different. At my store there is a guy who has a hand sculpted Toltek inspired eldar army. From what I understand in the US, people would find his army offensive, because he isn't a Toltek himself, in fact he is very Polish.

Karol wrote:


At my store there is a guy who has a hand sculpted Toltek inspired eldar army. From what I understand in the US, people would find his army offensive, because he isn't a Toltek himself, in fact he is very Polish.

Can't speak for the US but in the UK someone having an army that isn't based on there ethnicity is perfectly fine. Heck there's a huge bunch of wargamers across many games that are of Western/European descent that have distinctly Asian themed armies.

OP - the fact this conversation is even happening suggests a page of 'don't be a wazzock and enjoy the game' is somehow actually needed.

Also thanks to the other poster that reminded me how good that word really is.

 Ghaz wrote:
As a bit of a reminder, GW is not the only company that has done something like this...

Spoiler:

There's a huge difference between this particular Page 5 and the Code of Conduct that's in the new Age of Sigmar rulebook.

The Page 5 that linked to was written probably somewhere around 2003, and today in 2021 honestly sounds like it was written by some teenage edgelord trying to be cool. Even the opening few lines sound like the entire thing is trying too hard. "Warning, Not suitable for wussies! Sissies, little girls, and nancy boys should go home now. This game is not for you." I mean wow, really? "You've got to have BALLS to play this game!" It reads like the writer binged a few dozen episodes of Joe Rogan, did some cocaine, and then went to an underground MMA fighting ring before writing this thing.

Way back in 2004 when I first started playing Warmachine, I thought this was pretty cool. Yeah, they're telling the man(Games Workshop) to suck it! Awesome! This is a wargame for the cool kids. I also recognized even then that this is supposed to be completely over the top, bananas advertising, because at the time, Privateer Press absolutely needed to do everything they could to capture even a sliver of market share from GW.
Reading that Page 5 now is just bad. It's so cringeworthy. And unfortunately, a LOT of players couldn't catch the subtlety at all and took Page 5 as a great excuse to be an absolute That Guy in all of their games. There's a reason that Page 5 still gets a bad rap today - because it created an entire community of players who thought it was great that they could curb-stomp even brand-new players(not realizing that those new players would then immediately drop the game after such a bad demo game experience). PP toned it down a lot in Warmachine Mk2, and it was gone entirely by Mk3, for good reason.

In contrast, the Age of Sigmar Code of Conduct has a bunch of polite suggestions about how you can be a better wargame opponent and generally make both yours and your opponent's play experience more positive. I don't see that as a bad thing. I've been on the end of bad play experiences, where my opponent just totally rolled over my army and I could only watch as more and more of my minis just got taken off the table. I would much rather have a more casual game against a fun, polite opponent than someone who still thinks that "Page 5" is a great mantra.

As for Karol's points about offensive language - I don't go around dropping f-bombs and cursing like a sailor at the game store, no matter how well I know the person I'm playing against. I'm not offended by it, but in a public setting like a local game store I'm going to do my best to watch my language. That's not even getting into actual offensive language like someone mentioned a few posts up - homophobic slurs, that sort of thing. Because that I do find offensive, and you can bet I'd be done playing in a second if I heard my opponent say anything along those lines.

I have no problem with these rules, i do have a problem with the arrogance and hypocrisy of gw acting like it can impose rules about respecting games on gamers while it acts in totally disrespectful ways to gamers with its policies, price gouging, nerf/buff cycles, constant new editions cycled which mean expensive new hardback rulesbooks and codexes every few years, etc.

WTF does gw think it gets off on telling gamers to respect gamers when it treats gamers like a leech treats a pig it's stuck on?

I have no problem respecting other gamers, i have a huge problem with gw daring to tell gamers to respect gamers.

a_typical_hero wrote:

You are offended by guidelines

Nope. Kindly stop projecting.

a_typical_hero wrote:
which most of the posters here summarise as "don't be a dick" and have to make "unsolvable rocket science" out of it to show that it is a bad guideline.

And if it actually was 'don't be a dick' I'd have no problem with it.

Indeed, I have said multiple times that I have no issue with the actual 'don't be a dick' parts.

What I objected to was stuff like GW giving people permission to act like elitist asshats when it comes to painted models, 3rd party models and even conversions.

But apparently the only possible reason anyone could object to that is because they're jerks. Real big-think stuff here.

a_typical_hero wrote:

Your example was to be completely silent during a game to not possibly offend anyone.

I wasn't the one dictating that you mustn't say anything that *might* cause offence.

If you hadn't immediately jumped on the offended-asshat bandwagon and instead engaged your brain for 30 seconds, you might have realised the problem with statements like that. Because unless my opponent is someone I already know very well (in which case we probably already know what we can/can't say to one another and don't need GW's intervention), I have absolutely no idea what will or won't offend them. I could say something I'd consider offensive and find that it doesn't offend them at all, or I could say something seemingly innocuous that ends up offending them regardless. Hence, the only way I can avoid using language that might offend them is to avoid using language altogether.

Now, if they were to write something like 'Don't use language if your opponent tells you they find it offensive.' then you might have an actual argument. Because now my opponent has told me that they find a given word or phrase or whatever offensive, so I'll know to try and avoid using it around them in future.

What GW is asking, however, is that I avoid language my opponent might find offensive without having any possible idea what language that might be.


But sure, keep defending their nonsense. Maybe one day sempai GW will notice you and give you the much-coveted White Knight of the Year Award.

It's just good sportsmanship, folks either inherently follow this 'code' or don't, having it written out wont change that.

What I objected to was stuff like GW giving people permission to act like elitist asshats when it comes to painted models, 3rd party models and even conversions.

"It's elitist for GW to get players to use their product in their game".
Spicy take there chief.

If you hadn't immediately jumped on the offended-asshat bandwagon and instead engaged your brain for 30 seconds, you might have realised the problem with statements like that. Because unless my opponent is someone I already know very well (in which case we probably already know what we can/can't say to one another and don't need GW's intervention), I have absolutely no idea what will or won't offend them. I could say something I'd consider offensive and find that it doesn't offend them at all, or I could say something seemingly innocuous that ends up offending them regardless. Hence, the only way I can avoid using language that might offend them is to avoid using language altogether.

Now, if they were to write something like 'Don't use language if your opponent tells you they find it offensive.' then you might have an actual argument. Because now my opponent has told me that they find a given word or phrase or whatever offensive, so I'll know to try and avoid using it around them in future.

Thing is, it is reaaaaaally simple to not say things that most people would find offensive. If you need a rough idea then think about how people who work in hospitality or retail speak to the general public and remember some simple guidelines such as:
- Don't be racist/homophobic/sexist/transphobic/bigoted
- Don't swear or use profanity in a public space with complete strangers
- Don't use slurs that you absolutely know you shouldn't be using

Okay. I'm noticing a lot of two-tone perception disease in opposition to a page of polite suggestions. Yes, this will not help you if your gaming group is so idyllically harmonious it makes MLP look like UFC. Yes, this will not help a complete sociopath magically become a good player. But there's a lot of shades in between the two extremes that this might in some small way help - younger players, people having a bad day, people with some lower-severity forms of neurologic atypia, people who just aren't perfect - All it has to do is forestall a single poorly chosen utterance and the polite suggestions have done their job. If a handful of games and playspaces can be made a little better by a piece of paper, a thought, then that is absolutely worth half a page of space in a core rulebook.

Sometimes some toxic 40k builds character.

 CEO Kasen wrote:
Okay. I'm noticing a lot of two-tone perception disease in opposition to a page of polite suggestions. Yes, this will not help you if your gaming group is so idyllically harmonious it makes MLP look like UFC. Yes, this will not help a complete sociopath magically become a good player. But there's a lot of shades in between the two extremes that this might in some small way help - younger players, people having a bad day, people with some lower-severity forms of neurologic atypia, people who just aren't perfect - All it has to do is forestall a single poorly chosen utterance and the polite suggestions have done their job. If a handful of games and playspaces can be made a little better by a piece of paper, a thought, then that is absolutely worth half a page of space in a core rulebook.

Ignoring the obvious hyperbole (which you are right to point out), I have found in my 20+ years of wargaming, that the kind of person (younger players included) who needs to hear this, is A. actually exceedingly rare (again, in contrast to what Dakka would have you believe, most people aren't raging donkey caves), and B. isn't going to be helped by it.

Most of the time, the younger players in a club tend to take on the tone of what the older players are doing. Got a positive, upbeat group? The kids will follow suit. Got a negative, "cheaty" meta? The kids will follow suit. Making them read a "code of conduct" isn't going to help either way. Especially not when most clubs already have something in place like this anyway. But, again, I still feel like this is a bit of a tempest in a teapot. Things can and do get contentious on Dakka. I've not seen anywhere near that level in real life. It's just so rare that I really wonder at what people are doing that they find enough of these folks to make them WANT this in the BRB. I just don't get it honestly.

Through anatomical changes to the organs of articulation and rapid expansion of the brain over the past 2.5 million years, human evolution has led to development of numerous complex and varied languages allowing for communication, exchange of ideas, and the creation of abstract activities such as poetry and philosophy. From a finite number of root languages, novel tongues which continue to live and grow have spawned and given rise to the Babel of cultures - some extinct, some thriving. Ideas alien to other species are given the spark of life through internal monologue, and we can heed the lessons of our ancestors through their written works long after they themselves have turned to dust. We have words to describe the furthest regions of space where we can never visit and the minute specks of energy that make up the matter of which we are made.

Yet somehow getting through a couple of hours without saying something offensive remains an impossibility so the only course of action is… silence?

 Gert wrote:

What I objected to was stuff like GW giving people permission to act like elitist asshats when it comes to painted models, 3rd party models and even conversions.

"It's elitist for GW to get players to use their product in their game".
Spicy take there chief.

Considering a lot of proxies/conversions are made out of 100% GW plastic I'm unsure why I'd need permission for those or for using unpainted miniatures. Most other things in this player code are alright but seem so basic/common sense it is not worth the paper it's printed on. Only the reminding people of rules seems nice, but even then what exactly is meant by this? Should I remind my opponent at every turn of every rules interaction I have just to prevent possible misplays? Rather takes the generalship out of the game if you ask me.

 Gert wrote:

What I objected to was stuff like GW giving people permission to act like elitist asshats when it comes to painted models, 3rd party models and even conversions.

"It's elitist for GW to get players to use their product in their game".
Spicy take there chief...

They seem to spend a lot of time these days making sure you don't get to use their product in their game, given their treatment of FW rules and the kit instructions = datasheet mess.

 Shadowbrand wrote:
Sometimes some toxic 40k builds character.

No it doesn't. Don't justify people being abusive jackwagons even as a joke.

Conversions/Proxies might not have the original look of the model which could be confusing for someone to know what it actually is. For example, my scratch-built Destroyer Tank Hunter uses a Leman Russ chassis and a very long laser gun made from gubbins, and is fairly obvious what it is. However, my Hydra is made from an Ork Trukk with a human-scale crew and an Icarus Quad Autocannon which is pretty far from the Chimera-based AA tank GW sells.

Unpainted minis is a way for GW to sell paint and at least IMO to encourage the thematic nature of a game of Warhammer.

For me reminding someone of a rule they might have missed means that if I win the game, I'm winning with my opponent having all the weapons in their arsenal used. Something like Militarum Orders or Psychic Powers from a Librarian.


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 AnomanderRake wrote:

They seem to spend a lot of time these days making sure you don't get to use their product in their game, given their treatment of FW rules and the kit instructions = datasheet mess.

Your first mistake was assuming the FW rules weren't going to be a mess in the first place

Sounds like babysitting to me, it's up to my opponent to remember to use his army's tools not me. Only thing we remind each other of over here is non-optional rules that should always go off.

 Castozor wrote:
Sounds like babysitting to me, it's up to my opponent to remember to use his army's tools not me. Only thing we remind each other of over here is non-optional rules that should always go off.

Eh, if I need my opponent to forget rules to win I don't feel like I've really won that on skill.

Personally I feel like helping my opponent improve by helping them with their rules not only raises the skill level of my local group which helps me raise my own, but it also helps me master the playstyles of more armies since it reinforces their armies in my head allowing me to better understand them and plan around what their army does.