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Made in de
Terrifying Doombull






Nuremberg

I'm not really trying to start a movement or anything by saying I don't want to participate in fomo driven purchases. It's more for the health of my own wallet and keeping my collection limited to the stuff I actually want rather than stuff I'm afraid I'll miss out on. If it means I actually do miss some cool stuff, ah well. Plenty of companies sell cool stuff that I can actually buy whenever I have the time, inclination and budget.

Like I said, back in the KS days I realised that I'd missed nothing much by not backing Reaper Bones for example, I was able to get any miniatures from that kickstarter that I wanted years later and ultimately cost me less money and added less bloat to my collection.

   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Sim-Life wrote:
mrFickle wrote:
 Sim-Life wrote:
 Da Boss wrote:

I think it's anti-consumer and I'm not interested in following it at all.


I really wish more people cared about this. Refusing to support anti-consumer stuff when its massive multi-billion dollar corporations is pointless but when its a relativly small fish like GW a concerted effort could easily effect their bottom line in a way that they would notice. But sadly people just HAVE to have those new space marines.


I don’t think they are small fish, they are the only high street shop to have had year on year profits go up since 2008.



So you think if players all agreed across Reddit and Facebook etc to just not buy new codexes GW wouldn't notice?


What company wouldn’t notice of all their customers stopped buying from them
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User



Nottingham

 Sim-Life wrote:
Sorry okay, I get it.
CONSUME PRODUCT THEN GET EXCITED TO CONSUME MORE PRODUCT


You're on a forum that's literally dedicated to consuming product and discussing the various ways of consuming said product.

If you want to jump of twitter and try to convince gw hq to stop making plastic toys and instead devote their time to disarming land mines and feeding the poor then he my guest but it's pretty fething boring.
   
Made in ie
Ruthless Rafkin





DarkerBlue wrote:
 Sim-Life wrote:
Sorry okay, I get it.
CONSUME PRODUCT THEN GET EXCITED TO CONSUME MORE PRODUCT


You're on a forum that's literally dedicated to consuming product and discussing the various ways of consuming said product.

If you want to jump of twitter and try to convince gw hq to stop making plastic toys and instead devote their time to disarming land mines and feeding the poor then he my guest but it's pretty fething boring.


I think you'll find that this is a forum to discuss the hobby. I haven't given GW money in years. The rest of your post is so far away from the point I'm not even sure you meant to reply to me.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/19 21:34:06



 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Yes, there are more facets to miniatures games than compulsively purchasing plastic.
   
Made in us
Hacking Interventor





DarkerBlue wrote:
You're on a forum that's literally dedicated to consuming product and discussing the various ways of consuming said product.

If you want to jump of twitter and try to convince gw hq to stop making plastic toys and instead devote their time to disarming land mines and feeding the poor then he my guest but it's pretty fething boring.


I'm gonna guess you've not been here long, but this is more of a place for bitching about product at least as much as consuming it.

That's really not a snarky complaint. To my knowledge there's not a lot of good discussion areas to criticize anything other than competitive balance of the game (r/WarhammerCompetitive) and even that only lets things go so far.

"All you 40k people out there have managed to more or less do something that I did some time ago, and some of my friends did before me, and some of their friends did before them: When you saw the water getting gakky, you decided to, well, get out of the pool, rather than say 'I guess this is water now.'"

-Tex Talks Battletech on GW 
   
Made in nl
Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle





 Sim-Life wrote:
DarkerBlue wrote:
 Sim-Life wrote:
Sorry okay, I get it.
CONSUME PRODUCT THEN GET EXCITED TO CONSUME MORE PRODUCT


You're on a forum that's literally dedicated to consuming product and discussing the various ways of consuming said product.

If you want to jump of twitter and try to convince gw hq to stop making plastic toys and instead devote their time to disarming land mines and feeding the poor then he my guest but it's pretty fething boring.


I think you'll find that this is a forum to discuss the hobby. I haven't given GW money in years. The rest of your post is so far away from the point I'm not even sure you meant to reply to me.

What he said, since I'm pretty sure that if Dakka allowed it we'd have many a thread discussing who exactly are the best recasters and were to get their product. as well as various other less legal ways of enjoying the hobby. Just because many of us enjoy the Hobby/Game/Lore doesn't mean we are all mindless GW consumers perfectly happy with their practices.
   
Made in us
Hacking Interventor





 Castozor wrote:

What he said, since I'm pretty sure that if Dakka allowed it we'd have many a thread discussing who exactly are the best recasters and were to get their product. as well as various other less legal ways of enjoying the hobby. Just because many of us enjoy the Hobby/Game/Lore doesn't mean we are all mindless GW consumers perfectly happy with their practices.


Hell, check me on this; are discussions of 3D printing/STL patreons of close approximations/models with clear 40K analogues allowed, as long as it's not about direct scans or recasts of official models? Because I heartily encourage 3D printed proxies and I know there's a Kickstarter page for what is essentially a resculpt of the entire Skaven army on the 3D printing forum.

"All you 40k people out there have managed to more or less do something that I did some time ago, and some of my friends did before me, and some of their friends did before them: When you saw the water getting gakky, you decided to, well, get out of the pool, rather than say 'I guess this is water now.'"

-Tex Talks Battletech on GW 
   
Made in ie
Ruthless Rafkin





 CEO Kasen wrote:
 Castozor wrote:

What he said, since I'm pretty sure that if Dakka allowed it we'd have many a thread discussing who exactly are the best recasters and were to get their product. as well as various other less legal ways of enjoying the hobby. Just because many of us enjoy the Hobby/Game/Lore doesn't mean we are all mindless GW consumers perfectly happy with their practices.


Hell, check me on this; are discussions of 3D printing/STL patreons of close approximations/models with clear 40K analogues allowed, as long as it's not about direct scans or recasts of official models? Because I heartily encourage 3D printed proxies and I know there's a Kickstarter page for what is essentially a resculpt of the entire Skaven army on the 3D printing forum.


Dakka is literally advertising that very KS on the front page.


 
   
Made in us
Hacking Interventor





 Sim-Life wrote:
 CEO Kasen wrote:
 Castozor wrote:

What he said, since I'm pretty sure that if Dakka allowed it we'd have many a thread discussing who exactly are the best recasters and were to get their product. as well as various other less legal ways of enjoying the hobby. Just because many of us enjoy the Hobby/Game/Lore doesn't mean we are all mindless GW consumers perfectly happy with their practices.


Hell, check me on this; are discussions of 3D printing/STL patreons of close approximations/models with clear 40K analogues allowed, as long as it's not about direct scans or recasts of official models? Because I heartily encourage 3D printed proxies and I know there's a Kickstarter page for what is essentially a resculpt of the entire Skaven army on the 3D printing forum.


Dakka is literally advertising that very KS on the front page.


...Well, that answers that.

"All you 40k people out there have managed to more or less do something that I did some time ago, and some of my friends did before me, and some of their friends did before them: When you saw the water getting gakky, you decided to, well, get out of the pool, rather than say 'I guess this is water now.'"

-Tex Talks Battletech on GW 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 Sim-Life wrote:
mrFickle wrote:
 Sim-Life wrote:
 Da Boss wrote:

I think it's anti-consumer and I'm not interested in following it at all.


I really wish more people cared about this. Refusing to support anti-consumer stuff when its massive multi-billion dollar corporations is pointless but when its a relativly small fish like GW a concerted effort could easily effect their bottom line in a way that they would notice. But sadly people just HAVE to have those new space marines.


I don’t think they are small fish, they are the only high street shop to have had year on year profits go up since 2008.



So you think if players all agreed across Reddit and Facebook etc to just not buy new codexes GW wouldn't notice?


the problem is people buying the big fancy boxed sets. not buying codices.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

DarkerBlue wrote:
You're on a forum that's literally dedicated to consuming product and discussing the various ways of consuming said product.
This forum isn't dedicated to "consuming product".

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Grot Snipa





Atlanta, GA

 Castozor wrote:
Just because many of us enjoy the Hobby/Game/Lore doesn't mean we are all mindless GW consumers perfectly happy with their practices.


"Oooh, look at me! I'm edgy, unlike all those mindless drones who purchase Games Workshop products!"
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 H.B.M.C. wrote:
DarkerBlue wrote:
You're on a forum that's literally dedicated to consuming product and discussing the various ways of consuming said product.
This forum isn't dedicated to "consuming product".


sure it is, to play 40k one needs to buy the codex, rules book, minitures etc. you can't engage in 40k without consuming the product unless you advocate piracy, something these forums make a point of saying we can't do.

I mean there's a 35 page thread that basicly consists of "Eldar needs new rules and new minis" a 12 page thread about chaos players saying the same etc.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Hacking Interventor





BrianDavion wrote:
sure it is, to play 40k one needs to buy the codex, rules book, minitures etc. you can't engage in 40k without consuming the product unless you advocate piracy, something these forums make a point of saying we can't do.

I mean there's a 35 page thread that basicly consists of "Eldar needs new rules and new minis" a 12 page thread about chaos players saying the same etc.


The basic core rulebook is free online, and we've just established that one doesn't need the official miniatures to play if your LGS isn't a GW. Perhaps Eldar and Chaos might be able to find more updated miniatures to print elsewhere; I think Ghamak did an Eldar/Harlequins range, and Helforged Miniatures is slowly running through the various Traitor Legions.

That does admittedly leave the codexes, which, although among the worst value propositions in 40K, I haven't got an obvious aboveboard workaround for.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here we are; A little more on topic...

Spoiler:


Definitely not quite the majesty of the official model, and I don't think it's Gearguts' best work... but at least you could conceivably get your hands on as many as you want.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/07/20 03:24:43


"All you 40k people out there have managed to more or less do something that I did some time ago, and some of my friends did before me, and some of their friends did before them: When you saw the water getting gakky, you decided to, well, get out of the pool, rather than say 'I guess this is water now.'"

-Tex Talks Battletech on GW 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 CEO Kasen wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
sure it is, to play 40k one needs to buy the codex, rules book, minitures etc. you can't engage in 40k without consuming the product unless you advocate piracy, something these forums make a point of saying we can't do.

I mean there's a 35 page thread that basicly consists of "Eldar needs new rules and new minis" a 12 page thread about chaos players saying the same etc.


The basic core rulebook is free online, and we've just established that one doesn't need the official miniatures to play if your LGS isn't a GW. Perhaps Eldar and Chaos might be able to find more updated miniatures to print elsewhere; I think Ghamak did an Eldar/Harlequins range, and Helforged Miniatures is slowly running through the various Traitor Legions.

That does admittedly leave the codexes, which, although among the worst value propositions in 40K, I haven't got an obvious aboveboard workaround for.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here we are; A little more on topic...

Spoiler:


Definitely not quite the majesty of the official model, and I don't think it's Gearguts' best work... but at least you could conceivably get your hands on as many as you want.


ahh but thsoe third party products are PRODUCTS. they're still something to consume.

Don't think just because you're buying third party doesn't mean you're not consuming product all the same

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in ca
Deranged Necron Destroyer






Everyone consumes
That's why companies call us consumers

Girl Gamers are the best! 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






Great, now I feel stupid for having weighted the pro and cons of getting a discounted box full of stuff I would have eventually gotten anyways instead of just buying it on impulse

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/20 05:07:31


Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






 Jidmah wrote:
Great, now I feel stupid for having weighted the pro and cons of getting a discounted box full of stuff I would have eventually gotten anyways instead of just buying it on impulse
Removed - Rule #1

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/20 10:11:30


Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
ERJAK wrote:
...probably has a some amount of Nazi memorabilia, has many concerning opinions about racial and cultural minorities, and/or likely refers to women as 'females'.
--Saying this about another member does not violate Dakka's Rule #1, apparently. 
   
Made in ie
Ruthless Rafkin





BrianDavion wrote:
 CEO Kasen wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
sure it is, to play 40k one needs to buy the codex, rules book, minitures etc. you can't engage in 40k without consuming the product unless you advocate piracy, something these forums make a point of saying we can't do.

I mean there's a 35 page thread that basicly consists of "Eldar needs new rules and new minis" a 12 page thread about chaos players saying the same etc.


The basic core rulebook is free online, and we've just established that one doesn't need the official miniatures to play if your LGS isn't a GW. Perhaps Eldar and Chaos might be able to find more updated miniatures to print elsewhere; I think Ghamak did an Eldar/Harlequins range, and Helforged Miniatures is slowly running through the various Traitor Legions.

That does admittedly leave the codexes, which, although among the worst value propositions in 40K, I haven't got an obvious aboveboard workaround for.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here we are; A little more on topic...

Spoiler:


Definitely not quite the majesty of the official model, and I don't think it's Gearguts' best work... but at least you could conceivably get your hands on as many as you want.


ahh but thsoe third party products are PRODUCTS. they're still something to consume.

Don't think just because you're buying third party doesn't mean you're not consuming product all the same


But the point, which a lot of people seem to be missing, is that you can use your need to CONSOOM to support independent third party sculptors and companies, instead of the faceless corporation that treats you the same way findoms treat paypigs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Mr. Grey wrote:
 Castozor wrote:
Just because many of us enjoy the Hobby/Game/Lore doesn't mean we are all mindless GW consumers perfectly happy with their practices.


"Oooh, look at me! I'm edgy, unlike all those mindless drones who purchase Games Workshop products!"


Literally what do you get by defending gakky, anti-consumer practices? Why do you think you're being clever by supporting being exploited?

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/07/20 07:26:29



 
   
Made in de
Dakka Veteran



Bamberg / Erlangen

 Sim-Life wrote:
Literally what do you get by defending gakky, anti-consumer practices? Why do you think you're being clever by supporting being exploited?

Just look at the words you are using and you should know why people get defensive when "buying from GW is bad" is brought up as a topic.

Exploited? Really? Cheap labor in some countries get's exploited. Some companies exploit the tax system. Me buying 1st party products? It's really not the same and shouldn't be used in that context.

I'm an adult customer. I make an informed decision wether a product from a company is worth my own, hard earned money. I know that everything GW does is meant as an incentive for me to consume more. I'm aware GW is not my friend.

How is GW exploiting me?

Imperial Guard Space Marines
 
   
Made in ie
Ruthless Rafkin





a_typical_hero wrote:
 Sim-Life wrote:
Literally what do you get by defending gakky, anti-consumer practices? Why do you think you're being clever by supporting being exploited?

Just look at the words you are using and you should know why people get defensive when "buying from GW is bad" is brought up as a topic.

Exploited? Really? Cheap labor in some countries get's exploited. Some companies exploit the tax system. Me buying 1st party products? It's really not the same and shouldn't be used in that context.

I'm an adult customer. I make an informed decision wether a product from a company is worth my own, hard earned money. I know that everything GW does is meant as an incentive for me to consume more. I'm aware GW is not my friend.

How is GW exploiting me?

They overcharge you, they make no effort to produce good or balanced rules sets, they engage in predatory FOMO releases. Just because you THINK you're not being exploited doesn't mean you aren't.

Funny that someone mentioned nuance about the issue and then you only present the extremes and point to other companies as some kind of whataboutism when in my original point I said that not buying from GW would work because its NOT a huge corporation that exploits third world workers (though their clothing IS made in Bangladesh).
In any case I don't see why you need to defend them. What does it gain you? Taking a stand against their practices can only help the community as a whole. Look at what happened when Ubisoft released Shadow Of War and had micro-transactions in the game, it was so universally hated they actually removed them. Almost like if a bunch of consumers decide "hey, we're not going to buy your thing because what you're doing is gakky and unfair" then the people losing money for doing a gakky thing will actually listen to them.

But sure, you've decided that YOU'RE happy, so why try to improve anything for anyone else right?


 
   
Made in gb
Twisted Trueborn with Blaster




Oh dear. How did a discussion of GW business practice get to "gakky" "so you think you're being clever" "mindless drones" and "think you're being edgy"?
   
Made in gb
Frenzied Berserker Terminator




stroller wrote:
Oh dear. How did a discussion of GW business practice get to "gakky" "so you think you're being clever" "mindless drones" and "think you're being edgy"?


The division in the online community between "GW are making stuff I like and I'm capable of deciding what is of value to me" and "screw GW I'll go buy recasts, download PDF's and hope the game dies while I still play it to teach them a lesson" is slowly growing and it's a stance that seems to be slowly moving further away from each other.

GW has some rubbishy business practices for sure, but they do what they know works and makes them record profits year on year, I think anyone promoting exclusively buying 3rd party or pirating until GW "learn their lesson" is probably more of an issue since I'd rather some money make it back into the company to support the continued existence of the game and pay for the staff.

There's nothing wrong with buying GW products if you find value or appeal in them, you're certainly not being exploited. There's nothing wrong with adding in some 3rd party to enhance your army or support other artists. But neither is "better" than the other. The worse business practices are again, just proven attempts to maximise profits from people who find value in their product.
   
Made in de
Terrifying Doombull






Nuremberg

The issue I have is that from our POV as customers the crappy business practices are just crappy. We don't have to consider whether it makes GW more profit, it it's not good for us then that's all that matters. GW doesn't care about us, we shouldn't care about GW either.

But also, I think deciding that you don't like a business and therefore refusing to give them your money and finding alternatives is always completely acceptable.

   
Made in de
Dakka Veteran



Bamberg / Erlangen

 Sim-Life wrote:
[1] They overcharge you, [2] they make no effort to produce good or balanced rules sets, [3] they engage in predatory FOMO releases. [4] Just because you THINK you're not being exploited doesn't mean you aren't.

[1] It is pretty much my personal decision wether I want to pay the asking price for a spare time product, isn't it? If GW prices me out of the hobby, I'll stop buying. If they offer a product that I think it is not worth the money, I won't buy it.

[2] Subjective again. I'm having fun with the current rules. I didn't have fun with 6th and 7th edition. I stopped playing back then, I started again in 8th. For my situation the rules got better to point where they are good enough again to be enjoyable.

[3] Prior to this conversation I didn't know what FOMO meant and having looked through it now on German and English Wikipedia I have to say... I don't agree that a product like the Beast Snagga box is 100% FOMO. Apart from a codex with a changed cover, you will be able to get everything at a later point with no problems. If missing out on limited time promotional offers (where the only truly unique thing about is the price) is causing you to be more than annoyed for a few minutes, maybe you put more emotion into it than it is worth it.

[4] Please educate me what else I have to consider and be aware about before you won't tell me that I'm being exploited anymore.

 Sim-Life wrote:
[1] Funny that someone mentioned nuance about the issue and then you only present the extremes and point to other companies as some kind of whataboutism when in my original point I said that not buying from GW would work because its NOT a huge corporation that exploits third world workers (though their clothing IS made in Bangladesh).
[2] In any case I don't see why you need to defend them. What does it gain you? Taking a stand against their practices can only help the community as a whole. [3] Look at what happened when Ubisoft released Shadow Of War and had micro-transactions in the game, it was so universally hated they actually removed them. Almost like if a bunch of consumers decide "hey, we're not going to buy your thing because what you're doing is gakky and unfair" then the people losing money for doing a gakky thing will actually listen to them.

But sure, you've decided that YOU'RE happy, so why try to improve anything for anyone else right?

[1] This has nothing to do with whataboutism or extremes at all. Look up the definition of exploit and then think about wether a company offering a product which you are free to accept or decline without any negative impact for yourself and many (cheaper) alternatives available is fitting that description. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/exploit
The examples I brought up is to show you how radical (and imho ridicoulus) your used language is.

[2] I don't like or dislike GW particularely. For the time being they offer something that I'm willing to purchase and use. It is less about defending GW and more about countering some BS argumentation that everybody who buys 1st party is a mindless drone who gets exploited.

[3] The grind or paywall gated endgame content of Shadow of War was a whole different pile of gak and just as I fail to see how I'm being exploited, I fail to see how gakkery on that level is even remotely connected to what GW does.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/07/20 08:57:50


Imperial Guard Space Marines
 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






a_typical_hero wrote:
Spoiler:
 Sim-Life wrote:
[1] They overcharge you, [2] they make no effort to produce good or balanced rules sets, [3] they engage in predatory FOMO releases. [4] Just because you THINK you're not being exploited doesn't mean you aren't.

[1] It is pretty much my personal decision wether I want to pay the asking price for a spare time product, isn't it? If GW prices me out of the hobby, I'll stop buying. If they offer a product that I think it is not worth the money, I won't buy it.

[2] Subjective again. I'm having fun with the current rules. I didn't have fun with 6th and 7th edition. I stopped playing back then, I started again in 8th. For my situation the rules got better to point where they are good enough again to be enjoyable.

[3] Prior to this conversation I didn't know what FOMO meant and having looked through it now on German and English Wikipedia I have to say... I don't agree that a product like the Beast Snagga box is 100% FOMO. Apart from a codex with a changed cover, you will be able to get everything at a later point with no problems. If missing out on limited time promotional offers (where the only truly unique thing about is the price) is causing you to be more than annoyed for a few minutes, maybe you put more emotion into it than it is worth it.

[4] Please educate me what else I have to consider and be aware about before you won't tell me that I'm being exploited anymore.

 Sim-Life wrote:
[1] Funny that someone mentioned nuance about the issue and then you only present the extremes and point to other companies as some kind of whataboutism when in my original point I said that not buying from GW would work because its NOT a huge corporation that exploits third world workers (though their clothing IS made in Bangladesh).
[2] In any case I don't see why you need to defend them. What does it gain you? Taking a stand against their practices can only help the community as a whole. [3] Look at what happened when Ubisoft released Shadow Of War and had micro-transactions in the game, it was so universally hated they actually removed them. Almost like if a bunch of consumers decide "hey, we're not going to buy your thing because what you're doing is gakky and unfair" then the people losing money for doing a gakky thing will actually listen to them.

But sure, you've decided that YOU'RE happy, so why try to improve anything for anyone else right?

[1] This has nothing to do with whataboutism or extremes at all. Look up the definition of exploit and then think about wether a company offering a product which you are free to accept or decline without any negative impact for yourself and many (cheaper) alternatives available is fitting that description. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/exploit
The examples I brought up is to show you how radical (and imho ridicoulus) your used language is.

[2] I don't like or dislike GW particularely. For the time being they offer something that I'm willing to purchase and use. It is less about defending GW and more about countering some BS argumentation that everybody who buys 1st party is a mindless drone who gets exploited.

[3] The grind or paywall gated endgame content of Shadow of War was a whole different pile of gak and just as I fail to see how I'm being exploited, I fail to see how gakkery on that level is even remotely connected to what GW does.


Beautiful. Great post.

And now we wait for someone to claim that buying citadel miniatures is the same as buying meth from a drug dealer.

Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





a_typical_hero wrote:
 Sim-Life wrote:
[1] They overcharge you, [2] they make no effort to produce good or balanced rules sets, [3] they engage in predatory FOMO releases. [4] Just because you THINK you're not being exploited doesn't mean you aren't.

[1] It is pretty much my personal decision wether I want to pay the asking price for a spare time product, isn't it? If GW prices me out of the hobby, I'll stop buying. If they offer a product that I think it is not worth the money, I won't buy it.

[2] Subjective again. I'm having fun with the current rules. I didn't have fun with 6th and 7th edition. I stopped playing back then, I started again in 8th. For my situation the rules got better to point where they are good enough again to be enjoyable.

[3] Prior to this conversation I didn't know what FOMO meant and having looked through it now on German and English Wikipedia I have to say... I don't agree that a product like the Beast Snagga box is 100% FOMO. Apart from a codex with a changed cover, you will be able to get everything at a later point with no problems. If missing out on limited time promotional offers (where the only truly unique thing about is the price) is causing you to be more than annoyed for a few minutes, maybe you put more emotion into it than it is worth it.

[4] Please educate me what else I have to consider and be aware about before you won't tell me that I'm being exploited anymore.

 Sim-Life wrote:
[1] Funny that someone mentioned nuance about the issue and then you only present the extremes and point to other companies as some kind of whataboutism when in my original point I said that not buying from GW would work because its NOT a huge corporation that exploits third world workers (though their clothing IS made in Bangladesh).
[2] In any case I don't see why you need to defend them. What does it gain you? Taking a stand against their practices can only help the community as a whole. [3] Look at what happened when Ubisoft released Shadow Of War and had micro-transactions in the game, it was so universally hated they actually removed them. Almost like if a bunch of consumers decide "hey, we're not going to buy your thing because what you're doing is gakky and unfair" then the people losing money for doing a gakky thing will actually listen to them.

But sure, you've decided that YOU'RE happy, so why try to improve anything for anyone else right?

[1] This has nothing to do with whataboutism or extremes at all. Look up the definition of exploit and then think about wether a company offering a product which you are free to accept or decline without any negative impact for yourself and many (cheaper) alternatives available is fitting that description. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/exploit
The examples I brought up is to show you how radical (and imho ridicoulus) your used language is.

[2] I don't like or dislike GW particularely. For the time being they offer something that I'm willing to purchase and use. It is less about defending GW and more about countering some BS argumentation that everybody who buys 1st party is a mindless drone who gets exploited.

[3] The grind or paywall gated endgame content of Shadow of War was a whole different pile of gak and just as I fail to see how I'm being exploited, I fail to see how gakkery on that level is even remotely connected to what GW does.


Incidently if you really do dislike what GW is doing, maybe stop supporting their products... maybe I dunno... go play another game and stop thinking about it?

Seriously, if you don't like warhammer 40lk thats ok, but if you don't have anything to contribute to the conversations beyond "dur you're a sheep for buying from them you suck, GW sucks, your mom sucks" etc... then stop trolling and go away

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in de
Terrifying Doombull






Nuremberg

It's possible to like aspects of 40K while disliking GW's business practices. There's no contradiction.

   
Made in ie
Ruthless Rafkin





a_typical_hero wrote:
 Sim-Life wrote:
[1] They overcharge you, [2] they make no effort to produce good or balanced rules sets, [3] they engage in predatory FOMO releases. [4] Just because you THINK you're not being exploited doesn't mean you aren't.

[1] It is pretty much my personal decision wether I want to pay the asking price for a spare time product, isn't it? If GW prices me out of the hobby, I'll stop buying. If they offer a product that I think it is not worth the money, I won't buy it.

[2] Subjective again. I'm having fun with the current rules. I didn't have fun with 6th and 7th edition. I stopped playing back then, I started again in 8th. For my situation the rules got better to point where they are good enough again to be enjoyable.

[3] Prior to this conversation I didn't know what FOMO meant and having looked through it now on German and English Wikipedia I have to say... I don't agree that a product like the Beast Snagga box is 100% FOMO. Apart from a codex with a changed cover, you will be able to get everything at a later point with no problems. If missing out on limited time promotional offers (where the only truly unique thing about is the price) is causing you to be more than annoyed for a few minutes, maybe you put more emotion into it than it is worth it.

[4] Please educate me what else I have to consider and be aware about before you won't tell me that I'm being exploited anymore.

 Sim-Life wrote:
[1] Funny that someone mentioned nuance about the issue and then you only present the extremes and point to other companies as some kind of whataboutism when in my original point I said that not buying from GW would work because its NOT a huge corporation that exploits third world workers (though their clothing IS made in Bangladesh).
[2] In any case I don't see why you need to defend them. What does it gain you? Taking a stand against their practices can only help the community as a whole. [3] Look at what happened when Ubisoft released Shadow Of War and had micro-transactions in the game, it was so universally hated they actually removed them. Almost like if a bunch of consumers decide "hey, we're not going to buy your thing because what you're doing is gakky and unfair" then the people losing money for doing a gakky thing will actually listen to them.

But sure, you've decided that YOU'RE happy, so why try to improve anything for anyone else right?

[1] This has nothing to do with whataboutism or extremes at all. Look up the definition of exploit and then think about wether a company offering a product which you are free to accept or decline without any negative impact for yourself and many (cheaper) alternatives available is fitting that description. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/exploit
The examples I brought up is to show you how radical (and imho ridicoulus) your used language is.

[2] I don't like or dislike GW particularely. For the time being they offer something that I'm willing to purchase and use. It is less about defending GW and more about countering some BS argumentation that everybody who buys 1st party is a mindless drone who gets exploited.

[3] The grind or paywall gated endgame content of Shadow of War was a whole different pile of gak and just as I fail to see how I'm being exploited, I fail to see how gakkery on that level is even remotely connected to what GW does.


Like all of this reads as "It doesn't affect me or fit my definition of exploitation because it's not extreme enough so I don't care".

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/20 09:26:14



 
   
 
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