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Arcanis161 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

And we have rules for Chapters that have that many people... so... why not Legions?

Didn't think there were any that are currently listed as only being a few hundred. Aren't most of the Chapters that got supplements at least close to 1k?

All of those Chapters are broken up into companies of 100 or so Astartes. The 8th edition CSM codex says that many World Eaters warbands number in the hundreds. Just a few of those warbands would outnumber a typical loyalist chapter, and they would all be World Eaters, and fight like World Eaters. If a loyalist chapter made up of multiple companies totalling 1000 Astartes warrants their own codex then so does a Legion made up of multiple warbands totalling 10,000 Astartes.

BrianDavion wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
I think all the Chaos gods will end up like Nurgle with his Scourge Stars, i.e. with their own little pocket empire in realspace. Gives Chaos a base to wage endless large scale war all across the Imperium, not just mostly in the Eye of Terror or its surroundings.

it also gives the IoM a place to go on the offensive against them, something that IMHO has been SORELY missed as it means the chaos vs iom narrative is ALWAYS "chaos attacks"

Gw needs to explore more of what the Legions are up to in Realspace now that they have greater access to it. They've given us some snippets, but we need more. The 8th edition codex mentions Night Lords building their own Empires in Realspace, I'd like to hear more about that.

 Marshal Loss wrote:
The rumours listed BSF-style renegade guard alongside BSF-style cultists for CSM in 2022. Not sure why CSM would get both. Might be a precursor to an eventual LATD-style release in the (distant?) future

It could be the case of each traitor legion getting their own supplements, they have cultists worshipping them.

While CSM focuses more on Chaos Renegades and the old Lost and the Damned, and they don't get cultists at all.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Gw needs to explore more of what the Legions are up to in Realspace now that they have greater access to it. They've given us some snippets, but we need more. The 8th edition codex mentions Night Lords building their own Empires in Realspace, I'd like to hear more about that.

Given the fluff in 9th Ed Codices is getting thinner and thinner, they won't have much room to do that.

Of course, this would be a great thing to do with Crusade. The CSM Crusade rules could be about how you slowly carve out your own realspace empire. Of course they won't do that. The CSM Crusade rules will be all about gaining the favour of the Dark Gods and ascending to Daemonhood.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Gw needs to explore more of what the Legions are up to in Realspace now that they have greater access to it. They've given us some snippets, but we need more. The 8th edition codex mentions Night Lords building their own Empires in Realspace, I'd like to hear more about that.

Given the fluff in 9th Ed Codices is getting thinner and thinner, they won't have much room to do that.

Of course, this would be a great thing to do with Crusade. The CSM Crusade rules could be about how you slowly carve out your own realspace empire. Of course they won't do that. The CSM Crusade rules will be all about gaining the favour of the Dark Gods and ascending to Daemonhood.

Yeah. The "Path to Glory" and Chaos Boon Table (isn't that in the Death Guard's crusade rules?), whether your Legion worships the Chaos Gods or not.

Yeah, the Boon Table is there.

It features Nurgle-friendly results such as "Unnatural Speed" and "Gift of Speed".

At least the main thrust of their Crusade stuff is disease creation, accumulation, and dissemination and not "How more Chaos-y are you compared to yesterday? Is you a Daemon Prince yet???" which will be the CSM one for sure.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yeah, the Boon Table is there.

It features Nurgle-friendly results such as "Unnatural Speed" and "Gift of Speed".

At least the main thrust of their Crusade stuff is disease creation, accumulation, and dissemination and not "How more Chaos-y are you compared to yesterday? Is you a Daemon Prince yet???" which will be the CSM one for sure.

The boon table is copied and pasted in the Thousand Sons Crusade section as well IIRC, just with the names changed, so it'll almost certainly appear in C:CSM as well.

 Marshal Loss wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yeah, the Boon Table is there.

It features Nurgle-friendly results such as "Unnatural Speed" and "Gift of Speed".

At least the main thrust of their Crusade stuff is disease creation, accumulation, and dissemination and not "How more Chaos-y are you compared to yesterday? Is you a Daemon Prince yet???" which will be the CSM one for sure.

The boon table is copied and pasted in the Thousand Sons Crusade section as well IIRC, just with the names changed, so it'll almost certainly appear in C:CSM as well.

Depressing, but I can see that happening. For all the hype of Crusade as THE Narrative system, GW still does nothing to make me want to play it. They sacrificed a lot of other Narrative mission packs and such for this stuff.

My only hope is that their new novel line will start to explore more of the other factions, after they get about 15 books devoted to nothing but primaris marines out of the way. There's a lot of story that can be told, a lot that I'd love to know about the Imperium Nihilus and this whole new universe that they have post-guilliman waking up, but, like most things with 40k, we're getting them painfully slow, in too many expensive books, and focused on the least interesting faction in the narrative: primaris marines.

Arcanis161 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

And we have rules for Chapters that have that many people... so... why not Legions?

Didn't think there were any that are currently listed as only being a few hundred. Aren't most of the Chapters that got supplements at least close to 1k?

Not sure if this is still the case post-Primaris, but the Flesh Tearers had been down to ~400 marines before Devastation of Baal. OK, they're a second Founding Chapter from the Blood Angels, without much additional material, but they have had rules for a few editions.

Popularity (and writer intreast) will drive rules more then numbers. if a writer really develops a passion for a subfaction and it's popular, and in universe is only 500 men strong, it's more likely to get rules then a army of millions that isn't as popular and the writers just aren't as passionate about. exhibit A is space marines

I really hope we don't get so many new Renegade Guard units for two reasons:

1) I want to play CSM for CSM. When they released rules for a limit to Cultists and such with DG and Co. I actually enjoyed this because it meant that we would actually see Marines being played rather than the janked "less means more" lists you usually see. All I want for CSM is exactly what the loyalists got. Just supplememnts for each Legion and a core CSM book that could focus on the Renegades like the RC and such. Then just a single character (established characters like Honsou and Zao Sahaal, than whatever-I-pulled-out-my-backside-this-week character) for each Legion. That's all just to start. Some plastic dual kits for mutilators and oblits, variety Venomcrawlers, new Bikers and Chosen are just extra toppings for me.

2) I really don't think it will mesh well at all outside of Word Beareres and Black Legion with the limitation rules. Remember Tzaangors and Poxwalkers are alternate not-astartes units that also get that restriction. I feel when folks will get hyped for the new models and the concept of a R&H army again, but when they get the codex and realise those previous ideas will be skewed or "different" to what they envisioned there will be backlash.

Just give the Renegade Guard and all those alleged new units with some Mutated Orgyns and all the Guard tanks, give them more mutation and boon-type rules than the order and structure of the Guard then give them their own codex. You'll end up pleasing multiple camps in the long term.