Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 ThePaintingOwl wrote:

 Sigur wrote:
Heyhey, I have a question about the Datacard things again, specifically the Armoured Spearhead special rule on the Leman Russ: The wording confuses me a little. Does the rule mean that the Leman Russ re-rolls all 1s on the to-hit roll in general and gets to re-roll any misses on the to-hit roll when targetting an enemy unit which holds a mission objective marker?

cheers

Yes, that is exactly what it says.

Thanks, I wasn't sure. Fun fact: I think that Ork Lootas have exactly the same special rule for some reason. Well, there's a TINY difference, but still.

I tried my first 2000 point game of 10th edition on Sunday. I am using an interim list until my Rogal Dorns are ready. My opponent played Grey Knights with no vehicles. He just had termies, strike squads, paladins, and characters (Draigo, termie librarians, and some punchy guy in one of the strike squads).

My list was three maxed Cadian shock troop squads with autogun sergeants, plasma guns, and grenade launchers, two Cadian command squads, one full squadron of armored sentinels with lascannons, one full squadron of scout sentinels with missile launchers, two Manticores, Lord Solar, a commissar, two Enginseers, a LR Plasma Executioner, a LR Demolisher, Gaunt's Ghosts, and three Cyclops demolition vehicles.

The random deployment gave us Dawn of War and the terrain was mostly ruins. It was a a friendly game with a good friend.

I found out that the little Cyclops Demolition vehicles are still useful and their new rules have some advantages. They help to fill up the backfield to block strategic reserves coming in and they can advance and still detonate at the end of movement. Because the explosion only targets one unit, you can run them up to enemies that are close to your own troops without having to worry about killing friendly units. You do have to keep the 6 inch radius for Deadly Demise in mind though, so be careful about letting the enemy shoot the Cyclops near your troops. Fortunately, their tiny size helps them quite a bit to avoid being shot. The only sour note is that you can't command reroll their die roll when they explode so they will do nothing if you roll a "1" (just pop with a wet fart sound).

I am getting better at using the Reinforcements stratagem to put my destroyed regimental units into Strategic Reserve. Then I try to bring them back onto the table from any table edge starting in Turn 3. That seems to get them in position to contest objectives better than bringing them back in Turn 2. In this particular game, I brought back two Cadian shock troop squads and the scout sentinel squadron.

High toughness vehicles paired with Enginseers worked well. The Enginseers are better than they were in 9th. The 4++ save on a LR is fantastic. Healing them D3 wounds per turn is just icing on the cake.

The Demolisher still looks like the best of the LR tanks. I kitted both of my LRs with hull lascannons and sponson Multi-Meltas. I may switch the sponsons to something with longer range.

I kept forgetting to use the scout sentinel special ability to help my Manticores but they still did good work. It was a bit odd facing Grey Knights since they had such short range, low strength shooting that my Manticores could just fire direct at them most of the game.

Gaunt's Ghosts still look like one of the stars of the 10th edition index and now I worry that they will be nerfed when the Guard codex comes out. By then, GW will have sold enough of them that they won't care.

I am looking forward to more games and will continue using the Cyclops demolition vehicles as my earlier concerns seem unjustified by results so far in game.

 JB wrote:
I found out that the little Cyclops Demolition vehicles are still useful and their new rules have some advantages.

Yeah, I think some people are hating on it a bit much and forgetting that it's now a 25 point unit instead of a 75 point unit. 25 points is not a horrible price to pay for a 9" bubble of reserves blocking that might add a mortal wound or two once its blocking duties are done. And it has a very important advantage over other blocking units in that it doesn't allow the various fight phase extra movement shenanigans. As soon as an enemy unit completes a charge move against it the Cyclops is removed from the table and the charging unit (usually) doesn't get to move any further.

GW's Community Downloads section has a new errata sheet version 1.2.

At a glance, Krieg medic is one per squad not one per ten models.

"Change 2nd bullet to:
‘For every 10 models in this unit, 1 Death Korps Trooper’s lasgun can
be replaced with one of the following:
■ 1 lasgun and 1 vox-caster (that model’s lasgun cannot be replaced)
■ 1 plasma gun’
Add the following bullet:
‘■ 1 Death Korps Trooper equipped with a lasgun can be equipped with
1 Death Korps medi-pack (that model’s lasgun cannot be replaced)"

Infantry squad heavy weapon team "...counts as two models for the purposes of wargear options."

Kasrkin now have Regiment keyword.

Other units affected:

Aegis Defence Line - clarifies number of pieces and deployment

AM Infantry Armoury Card - Scions get BS 3+ for weapons with an asterisk by the BS (same as Tempestor).

AM Vehicle Armoury Card - Exterminator Autocannon is Rapid Fire 4, Twin-Linked

Ogryn Bodyguard - adds a Close Combat Weapon

Taurox Prime - Taurox Missile Launcher Frag is Strength 4

Ursala Creed - Her Tactical Genius ability only works on Regiment units now.

 JB wrote:
At a glance, Krieg medic is one per squad not one per ten models.

And not removed entirely as was RAW, which is unfortunate. Krieg are now by far the best of the four units and there's no real reason to ever take the others. 5+++, easy +1 to hit (and sometimes +1 to wound), the most special weapons, auto-pass morale once per game for 0 CP, and now respawning D3 models per turn. At the same 65 points as everyone else the choice is obvious.

Ursala Creed - Her Tactical Genius ability only works on Regiment units now.

RIP fake Creed, you were too good to last. Back in the box you go.

 ThePaintingOwl wrote:

And not removed entirely as was RAW, which is unfortunate. Krieg are now by far the best of the four units and there's no real reason to ever take the others. 5+++, easy +1 to hit (and sometimes +1 to wound), the most special weapons, auto-pass morale once per game for 0 CP, and now respawning D3 models per turn. At the same 65 points as everyone else the choice is obvious.

"Not removed entirely as was RAW" ...did anyone actually expect it would be removed?

DKOK can't be joined by Creed/Castellans, and sometimes you want some HWT's in your squads.
They might invalidate Shock Troopers, but regular Infantry Squads def. still have a place.

 MinscS2 wrote:
"Not removed entirely as was RAW" ...did anyone actually expect it would be removed?

I'd hoped it would be removed, that it was a case of GW realizing how much better Krieg are than the other three even without the respawn and doing at least something to bring them into line. But I guess the intent is that Krieg should be best at everything and having a 20-man blob with a 4++/5+++, the best firepower, and d3 respawns per turn is exactly what GW wanted.

And yeah, you can't take Creed but that's not a meaningful drawback now that she's been nerfed into borderline uselessness.

 ThePaintingOwl wrote:

 MinscS2 wrote:
"Not removed entirely as was RAW" ...did anyone actually expect it would be removed?

I'd hoped it would be removed, that it was a case of GW realizing how much better Krieg are than the other three even without the respawn and doing at least something to bring them into line. But I guess the intent is that Krieg should be best at everything and having a 20-man blob with a 4++/5+++, the best firepower, and d3 respawns per turn is exactly what GW wanted.

And yeah, you can't take Creed but that's not a meaningful drawback now that she's been nerfed into borderline uselessness.

Plenty of the things you list here aren't inherent to the DKOK though, are they?

4++ I presume is from the Primaris Psyker and the 5+++ is from the Marshal, both of these can join regular Infantry.

Krieg aren't "best at everything". They're way better than Shock Troopers for a forward moving unit (but the fault here lies with the Shock Troopers being plain bad just as much the DKOK being good), but for a defensive unit, just chilling in the backfield I'd much rather have Infantry Squads with FRFSRF, Sustained and Lethal.

 MinscS2 wrote:
4++ I presume is from the Primaris Psyker and the 5+++ is from the Marshal, both of these can join regular Infantry.

Correct, 5+++ is from the auto-take marshal.

And as for backfield troops I'd rather have a Basilisk or Manticore. Backfield troops don't have line of sight to anything on typical tables so even if you use a token infantry squad to keep them as cheap as possible you certainly aren't going to waste buff upgrades on it. The role of infantry squads is to move up, take mid-field objectives, and respawn on your opponent's side of the table when they die. And Krieg are by far the best at that job.

I'm glad DKOK were fixed. Though I do also agree they're now the best option.

 ThePaintingOwl wrote:

And yeah, you can't take Creed but that's not a meaningful drawback now that she's been nerfed into borderline uselessness.

Maybe I'm missing something (my gaming group has decided to stick with 9th for better or worse, so I haven't really been digging into 10th too deeply), but doesn't that still leave all the infantry and (critically) the sentinels as valid targets for her 0 CP strat ability?

DeadliestIdiot wrote:

 ThePaintingOwl wrote:

And yeah, you can't take Creed but that's not a meaningful drawback now that she's been nerfed into borderline uselessness.

Maybe I'm missing something (my gaming group has decided to stick with 9th for better or worse, so I haven't really been digging into 10th too deeply), but doesn't that still leave all the infantry and (critically) the sentinels as valid targets for her 0 CP strat ability?

You are correct but The Painting Owl may be focused on tournament level efficiency. The DKoK are great but the other three choices are still quite playable. Ursala isn’t as efficient as a DKoK marshal but still is great for her points.

I don’t play tournaments so I will stick with Cadians as long as Cadia still stands.

Dkok are the best at a lot of things, but the others have play in them.

Infantry squads with a mortar make good Creed fields of fire squads, using the indirect to drop the -1ap debuff on enemies within 48".

Catachan make nice scouting screens, with flamers to help absorb charging hordes.

Cadians with command squads are immune to a lot of debuffs, and castellans give access to fall back and shoot.

I agree that dkok are top dog out of the four choices, but saying that the others do not have any place at all would be a bit shortsighted.

Also, I don't get how Creed is not still really good? You save 2cp a turn on fields of fire, which you were probably using on a regiment unit anyway. Plus you have Creed reinforcements. If we leave aside the pages of rule arguments on it, some tournaments do allow it. 2 reinforcements a turn is very powerful. Not to mention that you get 2 orders for the price other units pay for 1.

 Trickstick wrote:
Infantry squads with a mortar make good Creed fields of fire squads, using the indirect to drop the -1ap debuff on enemies within 48".

A mortar HWS does an even better job here.

Catachan make nice scouting screens, with flamers to help absorb charging hordes.

Flamer overwatch is barely relevant and certainly not valuable enough to justify all the other drawbacks with Catachans. Outside of lore-focused Catachan armies that don't care about list strength the unit has no reason to exist.

Cadians with command squads are immune to a lot of debuffs, and castellans give access to fall back and shoot.

Any squad with a flag is immune to the only debuff that matters and fall back and shoot has minimal value on a unit that rarely wants to fall back and doesn't have anywhere near enough firepower to be worth adding a buff character to get it.

Also, I don't get how Creed is not still really good?

Because now you only have one stratagem worth using her buff on and it only gives you full value on the CP refund, not the multiple uses per phase half. Stacking titan overwatch or -1 D on Baneblades was very strong, now you're left with some of the lower-tier options and you're paying 55 points + bodyguards to get them.

And yes, I'm assuming that Reinforcements doesn't work since it doesn't work RAW and there's nothing suggesting that GW intended it to work. If GW changes the rules to make it work then Creed gains some value back but until then I don't count it.

I'm starting to write up my first competitive Guard List. From what I've been reading on this thread and other sites it's best to just spam marshals inside multiple (3-4) 20man dkok squads for the 5+++ with Basilisks and Manticores witj multiple Scout Sentinels. Am I on the right track?

Kind Regards

 Notevenow12 wrote:
I'm starting to write up my first competitive Guard List. From what I've been reading on this thread and other sites it's best to just spam marshals inside multiple (3-4) 20man dkok squads for the 5+++ with Basilisks and Manticores witj multiple Scout Sentinels. Am I on the right track?

Kind Regards

Yup. Pretty much just playing Krieg thematically.

Had it pointed out to me that Militarum Tempestus Command Squads don't acutally have the voice of command rule, so raw they can't issue orders...

 Notevenow12 wrote:
I'm starting to write up my first competitive Guard List. From what I've been reading on this thread and other sites it's best to just spam marshals inside multiple (3-4) 20man dkok squads for the 5+++ with Basilisks and Manticores witj multiple Scout Sentinels. Am I on the right track?

Kind Regards

Yep, pretty much. Though post artillery nerf there's been somewhat of a shift to tanks over artillery and mass artillery is far less of an auto-take.

Hey guys, I'm thinking of building up a small (1k) guard army, starting from scratch - what sort of list would you recommend for a newbie, taking into consideration ease of play and start-up costs since I have zero models?

Thank,
Coh

What do you like about the Guard? What infantry would you like to collect? It's such a large range. But you can't go wrong with a platoon command squad, 3 squads on infantry, a sentinel, and a leman russ as a core. That gets you halfway there.

From there I would add another platoon commander, three more squads, a basilisk, and a couple of officers to taste (tehpriest, castellan, primaris psyker, commissar, attaches in order is my recommendation).

That's a fairly well balanced list but you could still swap in some heavy weapon squads, rough riders, or more sentinels and drop some infantry.

Does anyone know where the rules for Chimera Autocannon turrets have ended up?

I suppose ultimately it doesn't really matter given that there are no upgrade costs in the game so the Autocannon turret would just be free ( ), but I can't see find it anywhere.

Also why is the Baneblade/Hellhammer so damned expensive?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Does anyone know where the rules for Chimera Autocannon turrets have ended up?

Gone. There's the "storm Chimera" in Legends, where you get an autocannon turret and no lasgun arrays (and GW didn't bother to add the extra armor rule that was originally what made up for the loss of the lasguns), but there is no more option to take just the autocannon or twin heavy bolter turrets.

Cool. Thanks for clarifying.

Anyway, like I said, ultimately it doesn't matter that much: the Autocannon isn't a unique weapon so it's profile can be found in many places and it would've been free anyway, so no reason not to keep taking them.

Warptide wrote:
What do you like about the Guard? What infantry would you like to collect? It's such a large range. But you can't go wrong with a platoon command squad, 3 squads on infantry, a sentinel, and a leman russ as a core. That gets you halfway there.

From there I would add another platoon commander, three more squads, a basilisk, and a couple of officers to taste (tehpriest, castellan, primaris psyker, commissar, attaches in order is my recommendation).

That's a fairly well balanced list but you could still swap in some heavy weapon squads, rough riders, or more sentinels and drop some infantry.

I like the idea of artillery with scouting units, sentinel walkers, etc. I don't have a particular infantry in mind, but either something reminiscent of WWII (to go with the artillery theme) or something rag-tag, sneakin' about behind enemy lines.

This is quite likely again a very stupid question:

Lets say a regimental Enginseer is attached to a unit of Servitors and the whole unit enters a Chimera. Do the Servitors profit from the +1 to hit from the Enginseer when they shoot out of the Chimera due to "firing deck"? And another +1 for the heavy weapons if the Chimera stood still?

Impulsebought a Baneblade last night ("this will get me free shipping!") and now I'm pondering on how to assemble it.
(I already own a Stormlord.)

What variant would you assemble if a Baneblade where to show up in your lap right now (and why)?

Leaning towards the Banesword right now. Solid gun, hilarious special rule (triggering Deadly Demise on stuff it kills on 3+) and should be easy to magnetize the endpart of the muzzle, turning it into a dual-purpose Banesword/Shadowsword (they are quite literally the exact same tank with the exception of that part on the muzzle.)

Octoblades are still a thing, right? It's extra work, but you could always do that and pick whichever variant tickles your fancy for a given list.

Much less work would be to pick one of the three base chassis types(i.e. Baneblade/Hellhammer, Banehammer/Stormlord, or Shadowsword/Banesword/Doomhammer/Stormsword) and magnetize around that chassis. In most cases its just a basic weapon swap.

 Pyroalchi wrote:
This is quite likely again a very stupid question:

Lets say a regimental Enginseer is attached to a unit of Servitors and the whole unit enters a Chimera. Do the Servitors profit from the +1 to hit from the Enginseer when they shoot out of the Chimera due to "firing deck"? And another +1 for the heavy weapons if the Chimera stood still?

No because in firimg deck weapons are vehicles. None of abilities of unit inside are used.

On flipside any buff 'hat applies to chimera apply to weapons.

Any tips on facing a Wraith-heavy Eldar list? First game of our crusade coming up and I have a feeling he'll be running a couple of Wraithlords, a unit or two of Wraithguard/blades, some Guardians and Rangers.

It'll only be around 1-1.2k and I'm running a thematic armoured list, 2-3 Russes, a Hellhound, 30 Cadians, 10 Kasrkin and an Inquisitor, Castellan and Commissar. I'm particularly worried about the Bright Lances I'm expecting him to field, any good tips for getting rid of Wraith units?