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Hatewatching the first one ATM. This movie, if you can call it one, has more slomo shots than a Dressman commercial

The storyline reads like a morning cartoon for 12 year olds, and even that is giving this thing more credit than it deserves. Whoever were desperate enough to finance this, Omnissiah only knows

 LunarSol wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:

 Geifer wrote:
I assume Justice League wouldn't have gotten the Snyder cut if it hadn't been for the studio's desperation to salvage the DCEU,

It was for money.

There was a very powerful social media machine ultimately pushing for the release and WB relented because the numbers were so big it looked like they could turn profit on something they already had anyway.

Now it's become practically Snyder's go to for some reason. He wants to do a special Snyder cut of Sucker Punch too.

More than anything, the Snyder Cut was a result of the pandemic causing studios to look for anything they could pull together from the back room to sell and WB needing something high profile to sell people on HBO Max when everyone had to prove they had a viable streaming platform.

It's definitely not what we would have gotten in 2017 if Snyder hadn't stepped away. HBO had resources to burn and put a good chunk of additional budget in while their VFX teams were stuck at home.

Yeah, and IIRC the thing caused some internal battles. The head of HBO Max wanted it for the reasons you stated, while Walter Hamada didn't want it because it was a distraction from what he was trying to do to move forward with the DCEU. It certainly wasn't about 'salvaging' the DCEU...from the studio perspective, it was a step backward and the theatrical cut was still the official version of Justice League.

And while I thought the Snyder Cut was a big improvement...a Snyder theatrical cut wouldn't have been 4 hours long. So even at 2:45 or whatever, it likely would have been back to feeling like it was missing a lot of connective tissue (see BvS). Overlong is just what he does. It's probably one of the most frustrating things about him as a director...that he can't create stories that don't need director's cuts and an extra hour or two in order to shine.

 gorgon wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:

 Geifer wrote:
I assume Justice League wouldn't have gotten the Snyder cut if it hadn't been for the studio's desperation to salvage the DCEU,

It was for money.

There was a very powerful social media machine ultimately pushing for the release and WB relented because the numbers were so big it looked like they could turn profit on something they already had anyway.

Now it's become practically Snyder's go to for some reason. He wants to do a special Snyder cut of Sucker Punch too.

More than anything, the Snyder Cut was a result of the pandemic causing studios to look for anything they could pull together from the back room to sell and WB needing something high profile to sell people on HBO Max when everyone had to prove they had a viable streaming platform.

It's definitely not what we would have gotten in 2017 if Snyder hadn't stepped away. HBO had resources to burn and put a good chunk of additional budget in while their VFX teams were stuck at home.

Yeah, and IIRC the thing caused some internal battles. The head of HBO Max wanted it for the reasons you stated, while Walter Hamada didn't want it because it was a distraction from what he was trying to do to move forward with the DCEU. It certainly wasn't about 'salvaging' the DCEU...from the studio perspective, it was a step backward and the theatrical cut was still the official version of Justice League.

And while I thought the Snyder Cut was a big improvement...a Snyder theatrical cut wouldn't have been 4 hours long. So even at 2:45 or whatever, it likely would have been back to feeling like it was missing a lot of connective tissue (see BvS). Overlong is just what he does. It's probably one of the most frustrating things about him as a director...that he can't create stories that don't need director's cuts and an extra hour or two in order to shine.

I feel like a 2:45 Synder Cut is very doable as is without missing a lot. The worst part about the.... mini series, is just that a lot of scenes had really awkward transitions for what feels like solely a desire to not cut anything at all. There's obvious stuff like the choir that really adds nothing to the film at all, but even little bits like the transitions in WW's big action opener feel very weird simply because of establishing shots that don't work and should have been cut or just odd things that are usually done in a "shoot three, pick 2" to give room to play in the editing room. It doesn't feel like much more than a 3 hour movie, but all the scenes feel like they're 30-60 seconds too long throughout.

Saw this yesterday with low expectations. Still ended up disappointed. I think the only praise I can give it is that the main cast are more or less OK.

The excessive use of slow motion was jarring after 15 minutes and only got worse as the movie went on. The moment I snapped and almost turned it off in despair was the bar fight near the start where Kora (Cora? Can't even be bothered to look up the correct spelling) disarms the knife-wielding wrinkly dude. Apparently this simple 1-second action really needs a slowmo shot for...reasons. I'm not sure why nobody's told Snyder that constant slowmo actually detracts from the energy of the action rather than enhancing it, but this movie really emphasises that. I think every single action scene would have been better without the slowmo so we can actually get a sense of the dynamism of what's happening, though I suspect that might just highlight how silly most of them are, especially the gunfights where nobody seems able to hit anyone, even when they're literally a couple of feet away. Then there's all the freeze-frames and "look-at-me!" shots. Here's a thought, Mr Director, how about just composing some really good shots and trusting the audience to appreciate how cool (or not) your visuals are, instead of these constant desperate attempts to point it out. The CGI was awful in places. The establishing shot of the main characters arriving on the planet where the Bloodaxes are hiding out genuinely reminded me of Babylon 5 with the "quality" of the special effects.

The writing sucked beyond anything I've watched in a long time. Exposition was just regurgitated via lengthy speeches, written is such unnatural and stilted language it was genuinely jarring at times. The dialogue is forgettable at best, and laughable a lot of the time. There's no nuance or character development and almost every character seems to have been ripped straight out of a TV Tropes description. The main plot makes no sense. This little farming village decides to take on a world-destroying capital ship and to do so we're told they're going to recruit an army from some disgraced general and a bunch of rebels. And also a couple of randoms who will make all the difference, apparently.

If you compare the writing in Dune, for example, to this, you see how exposition should be done. Some narration or text at the start to set the scene is fine. After that everything is revealed via what feels like natural conversation between characters, in some cases with a little bit of info left out for the audience to fill in for themselves. Nobody sits down for 5 minutes to explain the political ramifications of what's going on in their entirety, or to give us Paul's life story.



In short, the entire movie feels like terrible fan fiction, directed by somebody who's only just discovered this cool "slomo" button on their camera and acted by a bunch of people who are competent but seem as confused as everyone else by what's going on.

Slipspace, what you wrote in the spoiler tag is my largest trouble with movie.

Everything would have been much easier for the bounty hunter to do without the MC. Just go and pick the bounties up 1 by one at any time he feels like it.

Then when they find the rebels only a small % of them join up to fight. If they are going to fight the empire anyway and feel worried about those who join's safety, isn't going out in full force going to improve their chances vastly rather than be dealt with piece meal?

I was wondering the entire time when they would join with the rebels who obviously must have a decent fleet and what use the random party members would bring for the final fight. Apparently the hippo tamer was a prince or something so he probably had some connections that would help out. The sword lady probably had some influence on that industrial planet and could bring resources or manpower that way and then obviously the general would still have some command staff alive somewhere he could gather and they would organize this rebel force in a serious threat.

Nope. They went around to a couple of planets to gather 3 extra fighters so they could do a normal ground battle with like 10 total people against an army and a star destroyer. What?! They could just have tried to recruit a half dozen people in that first settlement they went to if that was the plan. Why bother cruising around multiple planets. Probably cost them more in gas than hiring 5 local mercenaries would cost.

Even worse is that the only reason the bad guys show up where they did in the beginning is because the MC lives there. At first I thought they were the only people on the planet and that was the reason but there is a larger settlement not far away. Might even be more villages and settlements on the planet. Why wouldn't the bad guys just go to the larger settlement and get their supplies there and if they want anything else just force those people living there to do their bidding and go out to the tiny villages. It is like having Darth Vader show up in a tiny rural village on the country side when he could just walk into the capital and subjugate the entire nation, including said little village, with about the same effort but 100000x the gains.

Klickor wrote:

Then when they find the rebels only a small % of them join up to fight. If they are going to fight the empire anyway and feel worried about those who join's safety, isn't going out in full force going to improve their chances vastly rather than be dealt with piece meal?

Yeah, this is yet another thing that makes no sense in hindsight. The rebels are apparently such a threat they send the big bad out to hunt them down. Yet when they are presented with not only a cause to fight for but a tactical advantage thanks to the element of surprise they chicken out. Or they almost do, but instead split their forces to further ensure their own defeat. The whole thing just makes them seem like a bunch of guys cosplaying as rebels. How are they a threat to anything if they know they're outmatched by a single capital ship and they make idiotic decisions even after acknowledging that?

Deleted.

 LunarSol wrote:
I feel like a 2:45 Synder Cut is very doable as is without missing a lot. The worst part about the.... mini series, is just that a lot of scenes had really awkward transitions for what feels like solely a desire to not cut anything at all. There's obvious stuff like the choir that really adds nothing to the film at all, but even little bits like the transitions in WW's big action opener feel very weird simply because of establishing shots that don't work and should have been cut or just odd things that are usually done in a "shoot three, pick 2" to give room to play in the editing room. It doesn't feel like much more than a 3 hour movie, but all the scenes feel like they're 30-60 seconds too long throughout.

There are easy cuts no doubt...I'm just not sure there are 75 minutes/4500 seconds of easy cuts without removing connective tissue, some character development, and various moments that let the thing breathe so much more than the theatrical version. We saw that Snyder couldn't do it in less than 3 hours with BvS, which had many fewer characters. I'm sure someone else could have made a coherent JL film within that time limit, mind you. He just seems to have his dial set to 'overstuffed'. That's why the studio gave Whedon that ridiculous 2 hour mandate...they'd had enough of it also.

There are few things as funny to me as the "I Tried" sign in the Whedon cut.

The funny thing about this all is, WB has always found success by being a hands off studio. It provides incredible freedom to directors and that's the main reason talented people want to work for them with the idea that they'll produce massive hits to offset the failures. It's always been the source of their success, but also why things go so far off the rails when executives need something to be made like the DCEU or LotR/Potter prequels or even the 90's Batman films.

Yeah...think Whedon regrets taking that job now? Clearly his gakky behavior has a long tail, but it seems like JL was the thing that really got the ball rolling on his 'cancellation'. And the task was impossible anyway. It was a lose-lose....lose.

And yeah...WB was always the "directors' studio". The new organization with a separate DC studio headed by guys who understand the genre is the right move for what they want to do. I just think what they're trying to do is 10 years too late. And the new boss is very cost-conscious and maybe not very patient to boot. Good luck with that.

 gorgon wrote:
We saw that Snyder couldn't do it in less than 3 hours with BvS, which had many fewer characters. I'm sure someone else could have made a coherent JL film within that time limit, mind you. He just seems to have his dial set to 'overstuffed'.

That isn't quite accurate. While I'm sure it would still be bloated if circumstances hadn't intervened, I don't believe that if Snyder had gotten to finish JL it would have been the Snyer Cut we got. When WB finally acquiescenced to letting Snyder go back to the project they originally were going to do it as a four part mini series for HBO Max, thus the 4 one hour chapters.

oops forgot:

Good one.

So the R-rated cut is supposed to add an extra hour? Alright then.

 Geifer wrote:
So the R-rated cut is supposed to add an extra hour? Alright then

Its only like 3-4 new scenes, just all sloooow motion.

 nels1031 wrote:

 Geifer wrote:
So the R-rated cut is supposed to add an extra hour? Alright then

Its only like 3-4 new scenes, just all sloooow motion.

It'll be the most intense farming you've ever seen.

 nels1031 wrote:

 Geifer wrote:
So the R-rated cut is supposed to add an extra hour? Alright then

Its only like 3-4 new scenes, just all sloooow motion.

The best thing about Snyder is that I knew I didn't have to type this myself.

 Ahtman wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
We saw that Snyder couldn't do it in less than 3 hours with BvS, which had many fewer characters. I'm sure someone else could have made a coherent JL film within that time limit, mind you. He just seems to have his dial set to 'overstuffed'.

That isn't quite accurate. While I'm sure it would still be bloated if circumstances hadn't intervened, I don't believe that if Snyder had gotten to finish JL it would have been the Snyer Cut we got. When WB finally acquiescenced to letting Snyder go back to the project they originally were going to do it as a four part mini series for HBO Max, thus the 4 one hour chapters.

That's what I'm saying though...to get the thing into theaters, Snyder would have had to cut more stuff than he wanted...and more than the film required for it to work well. He probably wasn't even going to get 2:45 or maybe even 2:30 given that Whedon got a 2-hour ultimatum from the studio. Similar to how he wanted a 3-hour cut of BvS, but the studio had him cut it down more and still wasn't really happy with the length. Remember that longer films mean fewer showings and potentially less box office.

So where the Snyder Cut was perceived by some (and I'm one of those people) to be better in certain ways, I'm not sure that a lot of those improvements would have made the studio's desired theatrical cut anyway. His version of the story probably had a sweet spot of 3:00 -3:15. Just like it's clear that the 3-hour cut of BvS (other flaws aside) contains some important connective tissue that the theatrical version lacked and needed.

But studios and theaters have their needs, and he just doesn't seem to go into those projects thinking "what's a story I can tell well in 2:00 - 2:30?" A lot of projects come together in editing, and that's fine. They all cut a lot of material. But IMO he seems to struggle with this in ways that other directors of his type don't. Snyder himself has actually joked about it, IIRC.

Worth noting that even not accounting for runtime, Snyder wouldn't have gotten the improved visual effects afforded by the extra time and money that went into the Snyder Cut (looking at you Steppenwolf).

 LunarSol wrote:
Worth noting that even not accounting for runtime, Snyder wouldn't have gotten the improved visual effects afforded by the extra time and money that went into the Snyder Cut (looking at you Steppenwolf).

Sort of. I think Steppenwolf was one of the effects finished after Snyder left/was canned. The design in the Snyder Cut was what he planned, I think (see the extra BvS scene with Luthor in the ship), but then Whedon "skinned" it with whatever that was in the theatrical version.

What kinda blows my mind though was the amount of stuff that Whedon reshot or changed to little clear benefit. I get adding some comedic scenes to it, etc...those were his marching orders. But there are battle scenes and such that seem to have been subtly reshot and it's not clear why. The "director's studio" could have saved itself some real money by just staying the course with Snyder. Snyder's theatrical version probably would have landed the exact same way as Whedon's, but at least they would have spent only $200-225 million or something on a bomb instead of the rumored $300 million. Three hundred mil for what we got is genuinely ridiculous...it's hard to see how WB thought that would change things. Goes to show you the absolute panic/freakout mode that WB was in at that time.

Saw it the other night.

As soon as they mentioned the Princess I figured that's who Kora will turn out to be, I suppose there's still time for that but disappointed they didn't even bother with the obvious twist...

Finally got around to watching this tonight while building LI Marines.

Verdict: Bleh.
And there's another 2 hrs of this crap coming?
I think it's safe to say I won't be missing anything by skipping pt2.

This seems pretty relevant:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
This seems pretty relevant:

Ha! I had this idea as well.

Like make a Snyder Cut of every movie with random slo-mo at weird spots.

That was amazing

Yeah, that was a good laugh. Vader's infodump is my favorite bit.

This is the first time I've seen GMG weaponize a thumbnail.

The spiel he goes on about the movie lifting things from Warhammer reminds me of my first playthrough of Ravendreth in World of Warcraft, and my response to the entire thing was;

"This is just Ravenloft. Ravenloft. Ravenloft. Wow. Holy gak, this whole zone is just point for point Ravenloft how have they not been sued for this one?"

What if Vasquez fought Darth Vader!

Gotta be a fake trailer....Not even 1 true slow mo moment

I am not sure if it is meant to look cool, or troll people. I mean that first sequence was just atrocious. I know hollywood hates the whole 'pick a firing position where you feel safe, put rounds down on the enemy' but mindlessly running towards the person shooting you 3 metres away (with no attempts made to engage at close quarters) pointing your gun like a talisman instead of firing it is a new low.