Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)

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**Palleus**

Frozocrone wrote:
If I stick a Nob with Waaagh banner in a Gorkanaut, does the Gorkanaut hit on 2+?

I'm not too sure whether one can cast psychic powers inside a transport but I kinda feel like building a list with a KFF Big Mek and Waagh Banner inside a Gorkanaut while a Weird Boy sends them off and let's them distracted the enemy while my 90+ boyz walk up.

I really need it to be Wednesday so my GW has the rulebook restocked.

The rulebook states that unless an aura rule (Like the one the Waaagh banner Nob has) has to specifically state that it CAN work in a transport. So, unfortunately, no. But he is a character, so you can totally hide him behind the 'Naught and your opponent can't shoot him.

Not 100% sure about the psychic powers out of transports, but I'm thinking that's a "no" too.

**gungo**

The shooting phase not psychic phase is the only one allowed in a transport. Also waagh banner works on all clan members even walkers on all to hit rolls in the fight phase but not while embarked in a transport.

**Solar Shock**

Jidmah wrote:
Dr.Duck wrote:
Noticed something

Grots:

Surprisingly Dangerous in Large Numbers: If a unit of Gretchin includes 20 or more models, you can add 1 to thier hit rolls.

Vague AF, means grots hit on 3s if they 20 or more. Prob not enough to warrant taking them over boyz but maybe.

If you jumping a 90pts unit of Grots across the table and then firing. They only need to kill a couple marines and then get blown of the board for them to earn their points back.

I just did that in a game yesterday to steal an objective from an enemy (Maelstrom mission where you can archive enemies capture objectives), they killed a grand total of three tactical marines. It did take surprising amounts of firepower to remove them, but I tend to agree with koooaei here - a unit of shoota boyz might have done more.

See this is what i think they will shine at. 30 models. Teleporting up the board for massive area denial. AFAIK there seems to be no restrictions on how you have to place the models after they have been deployed in this manner. for 60 pts you can deploy a 30 -60 inch line that prevents reserves arrivals in a bubble thats effectively 18". Now if you have one side of that bubble within 1/2" of another units 9" bubble...... well right there you have a 27" bubble... So because im such a kooooaei fanboiii; you can effectively prevent all those pesky commsquads from even being in rapid fire range. HECK! they may not even be in 24" range!

90 pts will save you half a guargantuan squiggoth! BOOM our most OP unit clearly

But anyways, yeh I agree in terms of them doing anything its pretty unlikely. But board control seems very important this edition given reserves arrive at the players choice, objectives are unit number based.. (thinking of those 2 maelstrom points when you redeploy onto an enemy objective in the mission where you can both cap each others cards

). I shall be running large numbers of grots! i'll tell you how it goes!

"Oh hi there.... you want to deepstrike??? ... errr.... I think that corners free!"

**Frozocrone**

gungo wrote:
The shooting phase not psychic phase is the only one allowed in a transport. Also waagh banner works on all clan members even walkers on all to hit rolls in the fight phase but not while embarked in a transport.

That's unfortunate, was hoping to keep the Waaagh! Banner out of sight, out of mind. Wasn't that fussed about the Weird Boy since I would probably just have it behind my Boyz and if need be, teleport one of those blobs to something that's running away.

Still, our Walkers seem pretty good. Problem is that Lootas got better with 2 Damage (perfect for destroying my mates Ghost Ark) and the Artillery (more speficially Lobbas, Kannons, KMK and even Smasha Guns which wound T7 50% of the time).

Coupled with 60+ Boyz I usually want to field and a Warboss/other support choices, not a lot of points left to sink into vehicles.

**Jidmah**

Just run the banner in the middle of your boyz. It cannot be shot except by snipers and even an expensive unit of snipers will take two turns to kill the banner nob.

**Bigdoza**

So what is the course of action to take as an Ork player if you set up and see seven stormravens across the table?

8 points for 24 hurricane bolter shots on those.

**Sal4m4nd3r**

Bigdoza wrote:
So what is the course of action to take as an Ork player if you set up and see seven stormravens across the table?

8 points for 24 hurricane bolter shots on those.

WAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! is the strategy I would employ.

**skyfi**

Bigdoza wrote:
So what is the course of action to take as an Ork player if you set up and see seven stormravens across the table?

8 points for 24 hurricane bolter shots on those.

40 points for 5 stormboys, could take 7 units x5 and 7 units x10 either PK nob in each? That's 847 points that coupled with a warboss nearby when they deep strike/charge .. also add zag for 88 points? Use small units to absorb overwatch and big ones to Krupmp?

I imagine 7 stormravens cost more than that. Could put warboss + banner (and even weirdboy)in a wagon with runtherder and grots to wrap him up when he disembarks to buff stormboys charge distance?

Adding ghaz , wagon with rolla, nob with banner and 20 grots brings total to 1495? Enough room for stuff to fill out detachment slots? Could bring min squads of grots for troop choices (and drops) so you can hold all 14 units in reserve.

3 hq
1 elite
13 squads of grots x10
14 fast attack (all stormboys)
1 heavy

Could be altered to maximine CP via detachments but just an idea off top of my head for stormraven spam.

Squad of tank bustas maybe not bad also with re rolls (even needing 6s) vs vehicles and 3 dmg each

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Smite spam effective vs flyers also? Could grab a few weirboys and bubble wrap them and try smiling + stormboys?

**Bigdoza**

I have been toying with using stormboyz as you were saying, but a list like that is most likely not gonna have first turn against the ravens and with their splitfire weapons each one could easily flatten 2-3, 5 man stormboyz squads first turn.

With their insane movement and hover option they can really limit how much of your stuff is able to engage at once while they erase half your boyz per turn.

All while pointing their big weapons and missles at any transports or hard targets we bring.

**skyfi**

Bigdoza wrote:
I have been toying with using stormboyz as you were saying, but a list like that is most likely not gonna have first turn against the ravens and with their splitfire weapons each one could easily flatten 2-3, 5 man stormboyz squads first turn.

With their insane movement and hover option they can really limit how much of your stuff is able to engage at once while they erase half your boyz per turn.

All while pointing their big weapons and missles at any transports or hard targets we bring.

Don't deploy them,
Hold all stormboys in reserve. Use 10 man grots and a wagon full of characters as "drops" on table.

You won't get first run, but you'll have a pile of gak on table for him to shoot at that don't mean gak. Aside from a tough as nails wagon

**Bigdoza**

I did not think stormboyz could deepstrike, nothing on their slate about advanced deployment options.

Unless Fly or jump pack just confers it.

The ravens would definatelty pop the Wagon, all of the grots and probably most of the characters that disembark before you got to play x.x

**skyfi**

Bigdoza wrote:
I did not think stormboyz could deepstrike, nothing on their slate about advanced deployment options.

Unless Fly or jump pack just confers it.

Can't recall off top of my head, but one of them does I'm almost positive.

If you can deep strike them.9" away from raven and within 6" of warboss, get to re roll charge range and greater chance of making it.

Played against a from list at 1k recently that had 2 night scythes. Couldn't shoot them down with lootas and gitz and wished I had brought some stormboys to assault them

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bigdoza wrote:
I did not think stormboyz could deepstrike, nothing on their slate about advanced deployment options.

Unless Fly or jump pack just confers it.

The ravens would definatelty pop the Wagon, all of the grots and probably most of the characters that disembark before you got to play x.x

Wagon 3+ 16w t7 or t8

Vs heavy 6 s5 -1 ap fired at 3+ bs? Or is that off? Do they get 2 each? If so,

12 shots per raven x 7 = 84 shots 56 hits at 3+ or 70 hits at 2+

Vs either t7/8 either 18 or 23 wounds at -1
Making wagon a 4+? Which should save 9 and 12 of of those incoming wounds?

Shouldn't wagon survive t1 or do they have more guns/etc something I'm not thinking of ?

**Bigdoza**

Each raven has twin lazcannon and can fire two missles per turn.

Plus another weapon think usually twin multi melta, and the hurricane bolters.

**skyfi**

Bigdoza wrote:
Each raven has twin lazcannon and can fire two missles per turn.

Plus another weapon and the hurricane bolters.

Rough. Still think stormboys all deep striking may be best bet. You'd have to find a way to protect the chars t1-2 though. ? Maybe surround them with 90+ boys instead of worrying aboy transports?

**Bigdoza**

I have been digging for anywhere it makes the slightest mention of them being allowed to deepstrike with no luck so far.

And if you do make combat with them and dont kill it will just fly away and shoot from a safe distance.

**pismakron**

Stormboyz cannot deepstrike

**skyfi**

pismakron wrote:
Stormboyz cannot deepstrike

me

**Bigdoza**

Here is my first pass at something I think could have a chance to work needs much fine-tuning.

Spoiler:

Boys are wound counters and aim shootas up, also give the weirdboys the body count for guaranteed D6 Smite.

Truck fits Weirds inside to cut deployment number down.

Stormboyz finish Raven that get too close or get jumped towards ones that flee after they are Warpathed and take them out.

What do you think?

**Breng77**

I think the issue will be when the Weirdboyz start to explode from perils.

I was thinking somewhat similarly but

Outrider detachment

Weirdboy

5 x 30 storm boyz (PK nob)

Spearhead detachement
Weirdboy
Battlewagon - Deffrolla
9 lootas
8 Lootas
Banner Nob

only 6 drops
5 Stormboyz
Battlewagon contains everything else.

Goes first against Storm ravens. Weirdboyz and banner nob jump out first turn moving up the field, use Dajump and Warpath on one Storm boy unit, which tries to turn 1 charge a raven (have lootas shoot the same raven, hopefully kills 1 turn 1. The rest of the Storm boyz spread out while moving foraward to force ravens to hover. and trap them for turn 2 Storm boy charge

**JohnU**

7 flying bases and a bunch of spread out ork bodies is a crowded board, most of the ravens will be forced to hover pretty much immediately. They can then be shot or charged normally. Double tap bolter range for him is charge range for you.

Cover the board with boyz, stormboyz, and infiltrate a squad or two of kommandos T2 or 3 in the backfield and he'll have nowhere to go.

It's doubtful he can table you and he can't get objectives so drop a couple planes, play the mission and you'll be fine.

**Bigdoza**

This was my list in progress before I heard of these all flyer possibilities.

Could maybe just deny them any board.

Spoiler:

**Jidmah**

Correct, no more deep striking (or any type of reserve) for strom boyz or any other model without a rule explicitly saying so.

The best answer to storm ravens seem to be rokkits of any kind and lootaz. -1 to hit is annoying, but anything that does hit hurts. It takes seven wounds from lootaz or five from rokkits to take out a storm raven. Even if you don't kill them, dropping them to BS4+ or BS5+ will severely reduce their damage output. Also, don't forget to smite them. Sadly you cannot make them crash by filling the board due to hover mode.

If you see seven of them? Depending on their load-out and your army composition you're probably boned. If they have enough anti-horde weapons you cannot out-ork them, if they have lascannons and plasma, your vehicles will have a hard time.
However, if they mismatch and bringt lascannons to kill your horde, you'll have enough time to shoot them down one by one. Otherwise your only chance is to block access to your important units with less important units (read: boyz, gretchin, trukks).
A lot of their weapons have 24" range, so the will not be able to reach deep into your deployment zone when there is no room to place them anywhere. A single storm raven in the middle of your army might even die to lucky shots, as even sluggas can wound them on 5s.

**Redbeard**

JohnU wrote:
Here's a general overview of the FW Ork Index

I clipped most of this. My book is in the mail, but I didn't see a lot of my FW units listed in your overview. Do they have rules for:

Grot bombs?
Fighta or Fighta-Bomba?
Battlefortress?
Gunwagons?
Flakk-Kannons?
Gun Trukks?

**JohnU**

Redbeard wrote:
JohnU wrote:
Here's a general overview of the FW Ork Index

I clipped most of this. My book is in the mail, but I didn't see a lot of my FW units listed in your overview. Do they have rules for:

Grot bombs?
Fighta or Fighta-Bomba?
Battlefortress?
Gunwagons?
Flakk-Kannons?
Gun Trukks?

Nope. Nor the Mega Dread.

**Bigdoza**

Im thinking 5-7 ravens may become a constant at tourney if only a small one since similar list just won the Boise GT.

So some answer to them is necessary.

**JohnU**

I wouldn't worry too much about the results from one small GT. It'll be a couple more months before the meta shakes out.

**Bigdoza**

Sat down and plugged it all in.

Can only fit five Lazcannon and two bare stock. Hurricane bolters on all.

Spoiler:

Between the 10 Laz shots and 14 missiles not many vehicles can hang and huge volumr of shots for hordes.

**skyfi**

Was looking on the waaagh, and gits there talkin bout the big trakk

Apparently ya can take a supa skorxha 4d3 s6 hits

And add 4 skorchas to it? 4d6 s5 hits

Then cart around 6 nobs with kombi skorchas making it 10d6 s5 +4d3 s6 auto hitting flamers?

What's the point load out on track with skorchas like above? I don't have the fw book and haven't found a link online yet

**Bigdoza**

447 Points for that vehicle as described with the unit inside.

T6 15 wounds with 4+.

**skyfi**

Also that kill tank, dang. What's one cost which a giga shoota and couple twin big shootas? Not bad delivery system for ghaz + killy melee unit. Thinking manz or nobs, something shooting on 6+ don't matter with. Even thinkin of arming occupants with skorchas?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bigdoza wrote:
447 Points for that vehicle as described with the unit inside.

447 including the nobs? Gonna say