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Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





Have a question on allying in a chaos knight in a super heavy auxilliary detachment. If its a tzeentch knight, we get to take it for just 1 cp ? Because we get 2 CP refunded back?

Also, if I ally in a Tzeentch chaos knight like that, what we do lose on the knight front? (I know we still keep cabalistic rituals, so for the Tsons detachment we don't seem to lose anything at all.)

We lose household bonds, but gain fell bond if its a dreadknight? I know we don't get traitorious ambitions. So, no infernal nor iconoclast ambition. We keep blessings of the gods because those are paid in points so we can just pay the points for a tzeentch blessing. We lose Harbringers I assume.

But how about strategems? And warlord? and relics ? Do we keep those? or do we lose them?
   
Made in us
Morphing Obliterator





 Grotrebel wrote:
Ahriman (Disk, Presage, Surge, Weaver)
Exaltet Sorcerer (Warlord, Rehati, Scrolls, Arrogance, Firestorm, Gaze)
Infernal Master (Master Misinformator, Crystal, Glamour, +1 S / free reroll)
10 + 5 + 5 Scarabs (Maximum Soulreapers & Missile racks)
4 x 5 Rubrics (each Soulreaper and Icon)


Assuming you go Duplicity the Mutalith may have some value as a distraction since you can teleport it, and you'll probably still have enough points for a Shaman.

You could drop a squad of Rubrics and pick up a Land Raider, with the AoC changes they're remarkably tough, especially if you get first turn and can buff it. Also, Ensorcelled Infusion + Malefic Maelstrom on the Land Raider isn't bad. I tend to build my Exalted out with Scrolls to insure either Facade or Twist can be cast more reliably. Or you could pick up a couple Helbrutes under the same circumstances.

"In relating the circumstances which have led to my confinement in this refuge for the demented, I am aware that my present position will create a natural doubt of the authenticity of my narrative."  
   
Made in de
Krazy Grot Kutta Driva





Eldenfirefly wrote:
Have a question on allying in a chaos knight in a super heavy auxilliary detachment. If its a tzeentch knight, we get to take it for just 1 cp ? Because we get 2 CP refunded back?

Also, if I ally in a Tzeentch chaos knight like that, what we do lose on the knight front? (I know we still keep cabalistic rituals, so for the Tsons detachment we don't seem to lose anything at all.)

We lose household bonds, but gain fell bond if its a dreadknight? I know we don't get traitorious ambitions. So, no infernal nor iconoclast ambition. We keep blessings of the gods because those are paid in points so we can just pay the points for a tzeentch blessing. We lose Harbringers I assume.

But how about strategems? And warlord? and relics ? Do we keep those? or do we lose them?


It`s not a 100% clear right now as the wording on Dreadblades rules is really wacky. Especially if it`s detachment counts as a knight detachment or not. A Dreadblade in a single detachment would be a paradox you couldn`t create.^^ Weirdly enough the Dreadblade gets a "Agent of Chaos" until the end of the battle which is a wording that`s rarely (if even) used.
GW definitely needs to FAQ this and i guess what we really can take in the end depends on if they say a Dreadblade detachment is a Chaos Knight detachment for all rules purposes or if it can be taken but after building the army does not count as one. Which would be kinda stupid but it`s kinda hard to know what GW wanted Dreadblades to have and what not.

Also there are some weird possibilities like a Dreadblade can`t get the character keyword unless you play a combat patrol soup which is technically possible.


Right now i think it`s like this:

Tzeentch Knight gets us back 2 of the 3 CP in a superheavy auxiliary so yeah, with TS it will cost 1 CP total

We keep Rituals and there are no other restrictions like you said.

No harbingers and Households, thats right.

Technically we can`t get Favours right now as a mono Dreadblade does not count as Chaos Knight detachment, but GW will hopefully fix that soon as it makes no sense that way. It´s done while creating the army so the intend is kinda clear.

We get Fell Bonds which can be used to get access to traitorous ambitions if you really want that +1 to wound surge.
As we can`t have a CK character we don`t have access to WL traits.
You could make the Dreadblade your Warlord but then you`d loose TS relics and WL traits instead but would get access to the Chaos Knight stuff instead.

If they fix the detachment mess we`ll get access to the strats as well. (Which is intended i guess as it has been this way before but who knows, maybe they want just to give acess to favours and not strats.)
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





Erm, I don't understand how one single chaos knight in a super heavy auxiliary detachment doesn't count as a chaos knight detachment ?

There is literally nothing else in that detachment except for a chaos knight model... From what I read of that small paragraph from war hammer community. The dreadblade gains the "agent of chaos" keyword, which is to ensure we still get to play with our cabalistic rituals. However, the dreadblade doesn't lose any keywords.

So, its a still a chaos knight and so its in a chaos knight detachment. This means we gain the strategems for chaos knights. And with the strategems, we can now use Tyranical court for 1 cp to make our Dreadblade a character and it will now gain a warlord trait. We can't get relics unless we make this Dreadblade our actual warlord, but we now at least have access to strategems for chaos knights. So we can raise shields for 2CP, etc etc.

Also, once we consider this a chaos knight detachment, then we can use spend points for favor of the dark gods.

So, my understanding is that if we don't make the dreadblade our warlord, we lose

1) harbringers
2) traitorious ambitions (infernal/iconoclast)
3) lose taking a relic on the dreadblade

We keep

1) Everything in our Tsons detachment, including cabalistic rituals
2) Chaos knights strategems, warlord trait, fallen household bond, titanic and chaos knight generic rules.
3) Favour of the dark gods (but we have to make our dreadblade tzeetch)
4) we get the shared faction bonus because both detachments areTzeentch.
   
Made in de
Krazy Grot Kutta Driva





Erm, I don't understand how one single chaos knight in a super heavy auxiliary detachment doesn't count as a chaos knight detachment ?

At the beginning of the Detachmenbt abilities it says Dreadblades are excluded from the models in a Chaos Knight detachment so at the point you make him a Dreadblade it would be no longer a Chaos Knight detachment.
Maybe it`s intentional to lock you out from strats and a few other things as there are things like the favours that seem to happen before.
Especially because the fallen hero rule reads like it`s supposed to start at the beginning of the battle but it`s not clearly defined.
But yeah, that Dreadblade never looses it`s Chaos Knight keyword so it`s all kinda weird.

So, its a still a chaos knight and so its in a chaos knight detachment. This means we gain the strategems for chaos knights. And with the strategems, we can now use Tyranical court for 1 cp to make our Dreadblade a character and it will now gain a warlord trait. We can't get relics unless we make this Dreadblade our actual warlord, but we now at least have access to strategems for chaos knights. So we can raise shields for 2CP, etc etc.

Tyrannical court says explicitly your Warlord must be a Chaos Knight, same for the double Warlord trait and relic strats.
I`m assuming here we want the TS Warlord because you loose the other stuff otherwise (but would keep Rituals still i guess)

We keep

1) Everything in our Tsons detachment, including cabalistic rituals
2) Chaos knights strategems, warlord trait, fallen household bond, titanic and chaos knight generic rules.
3) Favour of the dark gods (but we have to make our dreadblade tzeetch)
4) we get the shared faction bonus because both detachments areTzeentch.

1 & 4 are correct.
3 i would say correct as well, but tecnically only if you buy it before you make the Knight a Dreadblade.

2: Correct about the Titanic and generic knight rules. Strats not right now until they clean up the CK detachment mess but i guess it`s intended we get to use them.
We don`t get household bonds for sure though, as Dreadblades are locked out on those per se. Also no WL trait as the Dreadblade does not gain the Character keyword as described in the Detachment abilities.


So right now if we add a Dreadblade to TS with a TS Warlord we keep for safe:

1) All TS abilities, Rituals, etc
2) Generall Chaos Knight abilities (Ion shields, super heavy walkers)
3 Psychic Powers if the knight is a Psyker
4) 1 Fell Bond which Dreadblades explicitly get even in a auxiliary

We don`t get these for sure:

1) Harbingers (mono faction bonus)
2) Traitorous ambitions (Dreadblades are generally locked out of this, but you can get Daemonic surge via the Biomechanical Fusion Fell Bond)
3) Relic & Warlord strats as you need a Chaos Knight Warlord to get access to them
4) Household Bonds (again Dreadblades don`t get those naturally)
5) character keyword and thus acess to WL traits & relics (unless you take a Knight WL we`ll never get any of those and no heroics as well)

This stuff is unclear but if GW FAQ`s a single Dreadblade is in fact a Chaos Knight detachment we get it as well:

1) Strategems
2) Favour of the gods
3) 2 CP bonus for shared faction as you can only get the Tzeentch keyword via Strat or favour of the gods
4) Towering Foe etc. (so the basic abilities. Fallen Hero falls under this, so it`s kinda stupid.)


Maybe they had some kind of timing in their head so you could build the army and have the Agent of Chaos keyword just while the game lasts (to keep Rituals etc.) but get access to the other stuff. You could argue that you buy the favour before you make it a Agent od Chaos Dreadblade which seems a little odd.
I really hope GW clarifies this in the near future.
All of the unclear stuff seems to be intended to get, but maybe they further FAQ this so
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





So I'm on a kick to take Magnus to a GT and try and make him work.

Thought process - AOC gives Magnus a bit of shielding from volume of fire and the -1D keeps things a little more sane. Most lists do not have the capacity to alpha strike Magnus off the table. But he's still a big target and I need to keep him safe.

To do this I will not take large Scarab bricks that eat CP. I intent to start with 9+ CP so I always have a CP reroll available. Additionally, an Infernal Master will use Glimpse for the pocket reroll and then for his spell he'll use the Prophecy cult spell to pick up a guaranteed save with 50/50 odds. That gives me 3 potential outs against any big weapons.

With +3 to cast and +2 to deny ( reroll all ) I feel like I could control Tyranids and Ulthwe a little ( I am under no delusions that it will be a winnable fight ).

Then I have a Leviathan buddy with melta and claw that gets baby-sat by the Exalted with Oraculae ( reroll one hit, one wound, AND one damage ). That guy with his 2+ and scary gun creates a nice durable foil to Magnus to pick from. Throw in a Vindicator that will mostly get ignored, but will be difficult to remove as well. The sorcerer in the back field will drop max range blessings from safety so I don't need to chew up a spell on Magnus to keep -1 to hit up.

Secondary Vulnerabilities

Assassinate - 13 - I think this would be difficult as Magnus will be hard to bring down and the Infernal Master and Sorcerer won't likely leave the back field.
Bring It Down - 9
No Prisoners - 8
Grind - negligible, I feel - it would take a large effort to pull down multiple units in a turn when the soft stuff is not going anywhere
Abhor - 18 - this is actually a bit lower than the normal TS Abhor scoring and I feel like this would also be a bit of a trap where my rubrics, infernal master, and sorcerer ( 8 points ) will never expose so it only matters in the event of a table wipe

Secondary Strategy
NO MERCY
To The Last - This would be Magnus, Levi, and a Scarab unit. I don't think I would take this except for in the early rounds against less capable opponents
Grind - viable
Wrath - viable, but requires Magnus to be alive to do the work

WARPCRAFT
Interrogate - viable by using Rubrics or Exalted and a CP to keep the Exalted casting
Mutate - similar to above with Magnus picking up late game mutates if things go well

SHADOW
Banners - good pick with lots of actions available, but I need to put something forward early to max
RND - good pick with action and shoot scarabs picking up the back field
Burn - unlikely to be viable with most infantry hanging back

SUPREMACY
Engage - not sustainable
Stranglehold - also not likely sustainable

So in the event that my opponent doesn't give me other secondary options I will go for RND, Interrogate / Mutate, and Grind.

Other Stuff

20 Tzaangors that stay hidden. When I need to pull them out I zip back with the crystal and bust them out next turn for some table control or I run over to some scarabs and redeploy them.

Magnus can go into reserves in the rare event I catch a hammerhead or Borkan.

What do you think? Am I out of my damn mind?

List
SUPREME
Magnus

BATTALION - PROPHECY
Exalted, Disc, Dilettante, Oraculae, Crystal --
Infernal Master -- Glimpse, Bladed Maelstrom
Sorcerer, Prism -- Weaver, Glamour

5 Rubrics, Warpflamer Pistol -- Temporal
10 Cultists
10 Cultists
20 Tzaangors, Banner, Horn
5 Scarabs, HMR, SR, Ardent ( shoot and action )
5 Scarabs, HMR, SR
Leviathan, Melta, Claw, 3x HKM
Spawn
Spawn
Vindicator, Shield, Combi, Havoc



   
Made in us
Morphing Obliterator





The Levi costing CP combined with not being Core makes it kind of unattractive under the incoming CP changes.

I'm actually a fan of the humble Helbrute with Fists/Flamers. It's core, it's cheap, it's relatively tough, and can do some good work in melee.

Anyways, this is a Magnus list idea. I'm not sure there's a great way to make him work, but he is a solid distraction.

HQ
Ahriman - Glamour, Doombolt, Presage
Exalted - Dilettante, Seer's Bane, Scrolls (Twist or Facade), Surge, Twist
Infernal - Swelled, Capering, Malefic

Troop
5 Rubric
10 Cultists x2

Elite
10 SoT x2

SC
Magnus

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/12 17:20:42


"In relating the circumstances which have led to my confinement in this refuge for the demented, I am aware that my present position will create a natural doubt of the authenticity of my narrative."  
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





True on the eventual CP front.

Yea I'm building up to the SoT. Not enough painted yet.

I think I can drop the Levi and the Exalted and stick Ahriman in there for more casts and drag in helbrutes. Three days to sort my list and get it in then a week to finish painting.

   
Made in gb
Tzeentch Veteran Marine with Psychic Potential




dorset

 Daedalus81 wrote:
True on the eventual CP front.

Yea I'm building up to the SoT. Not enough painted yet.

I think I can drop the Levi and the Exalted and stick Ahriman in there for more casts and drag in helbrutes. Three days to sort my list and get it in then a week to finish painting.


yhea, just remember that they are planning to drop to something like 6CP at the start. its not changed yet, and it wont for a few weeks yet (my guess would be late june), but still, be aware that this is going to happen.

Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.
"Tommy", Rudyard Kipling
Exporitor force kappa-Tercia 500pts Coven of XVth 1000pts
afrika Korps 1,500pts Watch Company Rho 1000pts
 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





Arizona

 Daedalus81 wrote:
So I'm on a kick to take Magnus to a GT and try and make him work.

Thought process - AOC gives Magnus a bit of shielding from volume of fire and the -1D keeps things a little more sane. Most lists do not have the capacity to alpha strike Magnus off the table. But he's still a big target and I need to keep him safe.

To do this I will not take large Scarab bricks that eat CP. I intent to start with 9+ CP so I always have a CP reroll available. Additionally, an Infernal Master will use Glimpse for the pocket reroll and then for his spell he'll use the Prophecy cult spell to pick up a guaranteed save with 50/50 odds. That gives me 3 potential outs against any big weapons.



Divine the Future cannot be used to replace the die of a save. Plus it can only be used by Cult of Prophecy units, which Magnus unfortunately is not.

Chaos 3000
Daemons: 3000
Orks: 6000
IG: 2500
Ogres: 4000
TS: 2000
S2D: 2000 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 OOTN wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
So I'm on a kick to take Magnus to a GT and try and make him work.

Thought process - AOC gives Magnus a bit of shielding from volume of fire and the -1D keeps things a little more sane. Most lists do not have the capacity to alpha strike Magnus off the table. But he's still a big target and I need to keep him safe.

To do this I will not take large Scarab bricks that eat CP. I intent to start with 9+ CP so I always have a CP reroll available. Additionally, an Infernal Master will use Glimpse for the pocket reroll and then for his spell he'll use the Prophecy cult spell to pick up a guaranteed save with 50/50 odds. That gives me 3 potential outs against any big weapons.



Divine the Future cannot be used to replace the die of a save. Plus it can only be used by Cult of Prophecy units, which Magnus unfortunately is not.


Oh balls. I appreciate the heads up as it looks like my brain got ahead of me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So I changed it up a bunch, because models didn't arrive and paint time is short.

I opted for Time over Magic to get me what I think is a more aggressive exalted as well as a little more durability on the scarabs.

Basic sorcerer remains the buff bot. He hangs back with the 5 rubrics who will heal Magnus.
Exalted went to aggressive damage dealing with scrolls, echo, and hourglass.
The Rites Scarabs likely go on table and attempt to pop off from 30" with guidance. The Infernal Master will jump them or Tzaangors when opportunity arises.
Ardent Scarabs drop in and Perplex something on the opposite end of Magnus to turn off their cross table shooting.
Infernal Master gives the second out reroll, but switches to turning off overwatch ( if he has sight ) to whatever scary thing Magnus might want to charge.

Wish me luck...gulp.

Spoiler:
Cult of Time

Exalted, Dilettante, Scrolls, Hourglass -- Firestorm, Doombolt
Infernal, Glimpse, Imps, Crystal -- Presage
Sorcerer, Thrall, Prism -- Weaver, Glamour

5 Rubrics, Warpflamer pistol -- Temporal
10 Cultists
15 Tzaangors, Banner
Helbrute, Fist, MM
5 Scarabs, Rites, HMR, SR -- Perplex
5 Scarabs, Ardent, HMR, SR -- Guidance
Spawn
Spawn
Vindicator
Maulerfiend, Cutters

Magnus

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/16 04:10:33


   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Ok, results are in.

GAME 1
Belakor, two Slaanesh GDs, and CSM.

He played way cagier than I expected. I basically never wound up engaging with Belakor or one of the GDs. My biggest mistake in this game was the choice of secondaries - something that will continue to haunt me in this tournament.

I opted for Grind, Retrieve, and Interrogate. Grind absolutely failed even though I somehow thought I could edge him out on durability with his severe lack of ranged weapons. To rub salt in the wound two of my retrieve rolls for 5 man scarabs failed...

Loss - 61 to 74

GAME 2.
Goffs, Ghaz, Wazbom and Dakkajet

This game I opted to reserve Magnus as I didn't want to risk taking both planes to the face. Little happened then I popped in with magnus on turn 2 and iced both jets. I chose banners, which wound up being a flop as well as a number of other clumsy, but not fatal mistakes. Most of his army was gone near end of the game, but enough to cause me issues.

Loss - 76 to 83

GAME 3
GSC

My extreme inexperience with the new GSC on top of another bad secondary pick took me down here. He would go on to resurrect something like 500 points of models. Anyway - I chose assassinate, but that was a dud as his characters never really left their corner ( mostly due to me getting gummed up by bikes ).

Loss - 73 to 90

GAME 4

IK ( old codex ) - armigers and a valiant

I pushed Magnus into reserves, but I really didn't need to, I think. His knights did not connect at all and I pulled the armigers down really fast. Should have been a 90, but I did the math wrong on primary and opted to not bother with a second explosive. Failed a retrieve roll again.

Win - 86 to 66

GAME 5

Tau

I opted to go into reserves with Magnus again, but in retrospect I shouldn't have. He didn't have anything with extreme range and I was more worried about plasma than I should have. I also made it too easy for him to score Strangle and the backup Primary. If I had put more focus there I could have likely kept him from scoring as much. Again I opted for retrieve, which was a mistake

Another unfortunate rules issue is where he was using Kauyon beyond 12" and in melee when he shouldn't have.

LOSS - 66 to 86

CONCLUSION
Not a fantastic win rate, but I scored the same battle points as 7th place and considering my total screw ups with secondaries I could have scored enough to be top 5 if I pulled out wins -- assuming Eldar and Nids don't manage to shut me out....TBD. I also think some potential rule misplays by opponents held me down so I'll be on the lookout more next tournament.

Magnus was great. People ignored him or failed to kill him. I dropped a 9MW smite once and it was glorious. On the other end of the spell scale - Baleful Devolution is just a spell that never works for me. I rolled box cars, so the result was a 15. The best possible outcome. Out of 15 dice I rolled 2 6s and then 2 MW total. What a let down every time I cast it. Overall I think I was too scared of him getting hurt and I shouldn't have been, which would have made winner a bit easier.

Exalted Sorcerer with scrolls and echo - total let down. Just once did the scrolls even get me a 9 for Firestorm and he occasionally forced me to spend 8 cabal to recast stuff with Magnus. I feel like dropping him entirely, but not sure with what.

Maulerfiend was a good distraction, but I do think I'll kick it out without a way to get it to advance and charge or to get a double move. Great distraction though. The helbrute was great. The vindicator was a champion scoring 10 damage on more than one occasion. If it hadn't bounced off a Tau commander's 1+ it would have had been an MVP in that game as well.

People that could did not take Abhor against me and in no game did more than a unit get removed ( Orks did tag some characters though ).

I am going to continue to tweak and try a version of this list - here's my next iteration ( undecided on cult ):

Magnus

Sorcerer, Prism
Infernal Master, Crystal

3x10 Tzaangors, Banner
Helbrute, Fist, MM
Helbrute, ML, Plasma
5 Scarabs
5 Scarabs, HMR, SR, Ardent
5 Scarabs, HMR, SR, Rites
Spawn
Vindicator, Shield, Havoc, Combi





This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/05/24 00:41:31


   
Made in us
Morphing Obliterator





 Daedalus81 wrote:
Magnus was great. People ignored him or failed to kill him. I dropped a 9MW smite once and it was glorious. On the other end of the spell scale - Baleful Devolution is just a spell that never works for me. I rolled box cars, so the result was a 15. The best possible outcome. Out of 15 dice I rolled 2 6s and then 2 MW total. What a let down every time I cast it. Overall I think I was too scared of him getting hurt and I shouldn't have been, which would have made winner a bit easier.


I think you'll be much happier if you just have him cast Smite repeatedly, I only cast other stuff with him if I absolutely have to do so.

"In relating the circumstances which have led to my confinement in this refuge for the demented, I am aware that my present position will create a natural doubt of the authenticity of my narrative."  
   
Made in de
Krazy Grot Kutta Driva





Maybe no one was as stupid as I, but I have been playing Rubric Marines with 5" movement since the Codex dropped and just realised they got a 6" movement.

Can anyone please tell me i wasn't the only one? ^^


Also, would you rather go for 10 + 10 or 10 + 5 + 5 Scarabs? Have a tournament upcoming in june and will be playing something like this:

Ahriman on Disk
Exalted on Disk
Infernal Master
Shaman
4 x 5 Rubrics with Soulreaper & Icon
1 x 5 Flamer Rubrics
20 Scarabs
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

I think you'll be much happier if you just have him cast Smite repeatedly, I only cast other stuff with him if I absolutely have to do so.


This reads to me as if you're smiting multiple times per turn with him?! You can't do that, each model may only smite once. If only he could smite 3 times per turn, he'd be absolutely nuts (well, a lot better than he is now, at least)
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Grotrebel wrote:
Maybe no one was as stupid as I, but I have been playing Rubric Marines with 5" movement since the Codex dropped and just realised they got a 6" movement.

Can anyone please tell me i wasn't the only one? ^^


Also, would you rather go for 10 + 10 or 10 + 5 + 5 Scarabs? Have a tournament upcoming in june and will be playing something like this:

Ahriman on Disk
Exalted on Disk
Infernal Master
Shaman
4 x 5 Rubrics with Soulreaper & Icon
1 x 5 Flamer Rubrics
20 Scarabs


Is your Shaman for psychic secondaries?

It comes down to what secondaries you want to go after and how you intend to do damage. e.g. TTL would work better with 2x10 and Ahriman, but 10 mans DO die. Those 10 man blocks will be about the only things doing real damage in the list with them chewing up 3 to 4 spells ( -1, 4++, revive, warptime/duplicity ) plus IM chant.

Personally I like 10+5+5, because you don't have to fuel two 10 man squads and you have more flexibility to exploit their back field and do other tasks like placing/removing explosives ( especially with action and shoot upgrade ).

If you run 2x10 one should sit in the back field not overly exposing itself and then it jumps forward when the other one dies. You generally don't want to give them the ability to force you to turn on -1D and then let them target the other unit ( which Tau plasma does really well ).

Honestly the best way to go about it is to just play the list you think you like more and then adjust after if it doesn't work the way you wanted it to.

   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





https://warp-hammer.com/2022/05/24/the-complete-guide-to-adding-chaos-knights-to-your-army/

Very good article clearing up what we gain and lose when we soup in a chaos knight as well as what the writer feels fits well into various factions including Tsons and DG.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





Hrm. Are we sure "Tzeentch" does not count as a "faction" for the Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment CP refund rule? Seems like what that rule was intended for.
   
Made in us
Morphing Obliterator





Twilight Pathways wrote:
This reads to me as if you're smiting multiple times per turn with him?! You can't do that, each model may only smite once. If only he could smite 3 times per turn, he'd be absolutely nuts (well, a lot better than he is now, at least)


I used to think that as well, but can't find anything in the Psychic Phase section stating that.

For example, Smite:
"SMITE
Smite has a warp charge value of 5. Add 1 to the warp charge value of this psychic power for each other attempt that has been made to manifest this power by a unit from your army in this phase, whether that attempt was successful or not. If manifested, the closest enemy unit within 18" of and visible to the psyker suffers D3 mortal wounds (pg 222). If the result of the Psychic test was 11 or more, that unit suffers D6 mortal wounds instead."

Nope, not there.

Figured it might be under manifesting powers:
"When you select a PSYKER unit to manifest psychic powers, you select one psychic power that unit knows and attempt to manifest it. With the 214 exception of Smite, you cannot attempt to manifest the same psychic power more than once in the same battle round, even with different PSYKER units."

Nope, not there, specifically calls out Smite as the exception.

Anyhow, I'd love to know where that rule is if you can find it.

"In relating the circumstances which have led to my confinement in this refuge for the demented, I am aware that my present position will create a natural doubt of the authenticity of my narrative."  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




So I'm Judy kinda reading through here in case I get bored and decide to proxy some Thousand Sons. Is there not much incentive to run 10 man blocks of Rubrics?
   
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Decrepit Dakkanaut





Eldenfirefly wrote:
https://warp-hammer.com/2022/05/24/the-complete-guide-to-adding-chaos-knights-to-your-army/

Very good article clearing up what we gain and lose when we soup in a chaos knight as well as what the writer feels fits well into various factions including Tsons and DG.


I was pretty certain we lose secondaries. I'll have to read a bit more into that.

   
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EviscerationPlague wrote:
So I'm Judy kinda reading through here in case I get bored and decide to proxy some Thousand Sons. Is there not much incentive to run 10 man blocks of Rubrics?


Quite a bit of incentive, actually. Max size units get the most out of Psychic Power buffs and bonuses, and even most of the stratagems (only Unwavering Phalanx really cares about squad size). Max Rubric squads in particular are nice forward position-holders for locations you're not committing your Scarabs to, but are still too close to the enemy for comfort. They're also easier to move around with the Umbralefic Crystal or Sorcerous Facade. Max squads with Warpflamers make great use of those, especially if you give their Aspiring Sorcerer Pyric Flux and/or Temporal Surge.

Of course, a max-sized squad can only be one place at at time, and two half-sized units will net you twice the Sorcerers and extra slots for bringing more Soulripper Cannons and Icons of Flame, so tradeoffs.

(My personal flavor favorite is nine-man squads, to meet the Number of Tzeentch. I wish the Scarab Terminators got their second Soulripper and Hellfyre at 9 models instead of 10, so I can do it with them too, but ah well.)
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





EviscerationPlague wrote:
So I'm Judy kinda reading through here in case I get bored and decide to proxy some Thousand Sons. Is there not much incentive to run 10 man blocks of Rubrics?


You may want them in a rhino if you do run them. Since they don't move and shoot like terminators they're at a disadvantage. Similarly they compete for -1D and spending 3CP to protect them is a hard sell.

With AoC you could actually run 10 mans in the Warpmeld and resurrect a model multiple units each turn ( if they're in range ).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Spoiler:
 TwinPoleTheory wrote:
Twilight Pathways wrote:
This reads to me as if you're smiting multiple times per turn with him?! You can't do that, each model may only smite once. If only he could smite 3 times per turn, he'd be absolutely nuts (well, a lot better than he is now, at least)


I used to think that as well, but can't find anything in the Psychic Phase section stating that.

For example, Smite:
"SMITE
Smite has a warp charge value of 5. Add 1 to the warp charge value of this psychic power for each other attempt that has been made to manifest this power by a unit from your army in this phase, whether that attempt was successful or not. If manifested, the closest enemy unit within 18" of and visible to the psyker suffers D3 mortal wounds (pg 222). If the result of the Psychic test was 11 or more, that unit suffers D6 mortal wounds instead."

Nope, not there.

Figured it might be under manifesting powers:
"When you select a PSYKER unit to manifest psychic powers, you select one psychic power that unit knows and attempt to manifest it. With the 214 exception of Smite, you cannot attempt to manifest the same psychic power more than once in the same battle round, even with different PSYKER units."

Nope, not there, specifically calls out Smite as the exception.

Anyhow, I'd love to know where that rule is if you can find it.


That was an item in the FAQ, unfortunately.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/05/26 17:29:28


   
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Morphing Obliterator





 Daedalus81 wrote:
That was an item in the FAQ, unfortunately.


I suspected it was out there somewhere, but hadn't dug around. I've had better luck with Desecration of Worlds honestly, it was great against Genestealers.


"In relating the circumstances which have led to my confinement in this refuge for the demented, I am aware that my present position will create a natural doubt of the authenticity of my narrative."  
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Yea I know it's just me latching on to precedent rather than potential. Probably the next time I cast it will be a ball buster. I've rolled up 6 MW on Firestorm once - that was fun, but then I can't get the scrolls to trigger Firestorm on my Exalted 80% of the time. It's aggravating.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/27 13:39:21


   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Alright so this is my first iteration of a list, so bear with me. This would also be the first army I've really done with a Psyker (let alone several) so fixes are always welcome. So let's begin:

Cult of Mutation
HQ:
×1 Exalted Sorcerer
. Warlord Trait: Undying Form
. Paradigm of Change, Coniving Plate, Warpflame Pistol
. Powers to be determined
×1 Infernal Master
. Arcana: Umbralefic Crystal
. Pacts: Capering Imps, Malefic Maelstrom
. Powers to be determined
×1 Terminator Sorcerer
. High Acolyte: Aetherstride, Arcana: Exalted Mutation, Battle Psyker
. Powers: Swelled By The Warp, Temporal Surge

Troops:
×9 Rubrics w/ Soul Reaper Cannon
×9 Rubrics w/ Soul Reaper Cannon
×9 Rubrics w/ Soul Reaper Cannon
×9 Rubrics w/ 7 Warp Flamers, Soul Reaper Cannon
. Aspiring Magister: Incandeum
. Power: Pyric Flux
. Ardent Automata

Elites:
×10 Scarabs
. 2 Soul Reaper Cannons, 2 Hellfyre Racks
. Aspiring Magister: Stave Abominus
. Power: Temporal Manipulation
. Rites of Coalesce

Fast Attack:
×4 Spawn

Heavy Support:
×1 Maulerfiend w/ Magma Cutters
×1 Maulerfiend w/ Magma Cutters

So the list should make sense on first glance. I have three main squads of Rubrics to work with for scoring on home or advancing. Depending on table, the Infernal Master can teleport himself to support the Scarabs or teleport the Flamer Rubric squad to a tastier location. Flamer Rubric squad was given Ardent to make it easier to do stuff and of course the Scarabs will just be tough suckers and deployed....however necessary.
I felt lacking on antitank so I just decided to say feth it and use the Maulerfiends to beat stuff up, and Suicide Sorcerer can help do the same. However I'm not sure if they'll be quite fast enough to do work. Spawn are just for leftover points and to bumrush whatever, but I could potentially leave them behind, but I'm not sure for what. I'm also unsure why I would make the main Exalted Sorcerer that tough when he's kinda just gonna be support.

Also still want thoughts on how to divvy up Powers. As I don't really run Psykers (the last list I ran was literally Templars) having that many powers is pretty overwhelming.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh yeah there would be 12 Cabal points total, forgot to include that. Not sure if that's enough for 2000 points.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/07 04:23:01


 
   
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Fresh-Faced New User





Arizona

Not pleased with the new CP changes making warlord traits and relics cost CP. Really cuts down on our options significantly.

Chaos 3000
Daemons: 3000
Orks: 6000
IG: 2500
Ogres: 4000
TS: 2000
S2D: 2000 
   
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Fresh-Faced New User





 OOTN wrote:
Not pleased with the new CP changes making warlord traits and relics cost CP. Really cuts down on our options significantly.


Hrm. Well, -2 CP at the start of the game, for the warlord's free relic/trait.

...But also +1 CP at the start of every opponent's turn, apparently.

Really, I think it's a wash. Less up-front, more over the course of the game. It would push things less into alpha-strike vs. expensive defensive buffs and more into continued strat use over the course of the game.
   
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Morphing Obliterator





Should usually be able to allocate a sorc to generating one during your psychic phase also.

"In relating the circumstances which have led to my confinement in this refuge for the demented, I am aware that my present position will create a natural doubt of the authenticity of my narrative."  
   
Made in gb
Lesser Daemon of Chaos




I believe some of the secondary objectives also generate CP.

Also, a good way to look at the CP cost for relics/traits, is it is a buff vs. the codexes with better relics/traits. (And there are a few of them).
   
 
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