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People will still buy the game regardless. He's keeping it boutique. Will every gamer interested in it buy it? No. But that doesn't appear to be route Adam is interested in.

Ah! It's interesting to read the speculation, but it's all quite simple.

As an example, let's look at the Dragon King Expansion.

Included is the Dragon, which is looking to be about 6 sprues. The Armor Kit which is another sprue and the human dragon king, which is another say... half a sprue.

In total that is a 7.5 sprue model kit, which is a fairly high cost in tooling and in production on a per expansion basis.

The breakdown is something like this:

7.5 x 8"x6" Hard plastic Sprues
1 x 140mm base
1 x 50mm base
4 x 30mm bases
100 x Game Cards
64 x Gear Cards
1 x Small Token Sheet
1 x 30 page 11"x 8.5" rulebook / storybook
3 x Large Settlement Event Cards
1 x Game box
1 x something i am prob forgetting at the moment.

= A high per unit cost.

Its like taking a normal board game... and adding really high quality hard plastic miniatures to it.

I also personally have no interest in mass-market. Nor working with a distributor whom I can't control from selling to deep online discounters and undercutting the little stores that DO want to carry KD stuff.

At the end of the day... the business is sort of the boss. If that makes sense to anyone. But I got into this to explore a personal vision in nightmare horror and have had the pleasure of working with so many talented artists that honestly... putting restrictions on the creative process would really take a lot of wind out of the team's collective sail.

My only plan, is to fulfill the kickstarter to the best of my ability at no expense spared. Where we end up... well. I think in part that is very much up to the backers and fans.

Anyway, thanks for the insight! Please don't feel like you have to hold back just because sometimes I do catch up and read things here.

Adam--- the content of that box makes me feel like im stealing a bit, having got it at the original price of $35......

That's quite a bit of cards in that box. Yes!

That expansion could probably swallow up a whole other game with what you're describing there Adam.

That's nuts.

And a 140mm base? That'll be a first for me. Most of my stuff seems to cap out around 80 or 100, and that's with the big Mierce stuff. Maybe a 120 or two.

For those that already did the PM- could we use Paypal, or do I have to juggle funds around to cover the extra crap I want to get?

 kingdomdeath wrote:


As an example, let's look at the Dragon King Expansion.

Included is the Dragon, which is looking to be about 6 sprues. The Armor Kit which is another sprue and the human dragon king, which is another say... half a sprue.

In total that is a 7.5 sprue model kit, which is a fairly high cost in tooling and in production on a per expansion basis.

The breakdown is something like this:

7.5 x 8"x6" Hard plastic Sprues
1 x 140mm base
1 x 50mm base
4 x 30mm bases
100 x Game Cards
64 x Gear Cards
1 x Small Token Sheet
1 x 30 page 11"x 8.5" rulebook / storybook
3 x Large Settlement Event Cards
1 x Game box
1 x something i am prob forgetting at the moment.

= A high per unit cost.

That does make it a little more understandable. Though I still think $200 for the main game is going to be a tough pill to swallow for a lot of people. Have you considered selling the minis themselves for people who want to paint/collect without any interest in playing the game?

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
Piston, that's a pretty good idea of measuring. I'd actually say movies less expensive than your gauge since buying a DVD is pretty cheap, but also would factor in painting to the game's value, meaning a good game with nice minis is worth a lot to me.

Sinful, no, I don't believe we've seen the spidicules in quite some time.

Wait, people still buy movies?

Outside of those really epic films/trilogies (Star wars, LotR, god father forrest gump)?

This is news to me.

ESPECIALLY various sprues of armor.

Those sprues have got to get to the market in some way, shape, or form.

Clamshell of a single male and female set with whatever weapons match. Would sell like hotcakes!

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
That expansion could probably swallow up a whole other game with what you're describing there Adam.

That's nuts.

And a 140mm base? That'll be a first for me. Most of my stuff seems to cap out around 80 or 100, and that's with the big Mierce stuff. Maybe a 120 or two.

For those that already did the PM- could we use Paypal, or do I have to juggle funds around to cover the extra crap I want to get?

It uses paypal.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
ESPECIALLY various sprues of armor.

Those sprues have got to get to the market in some way, shape, or form.

Clamshell of a single male and female set with whatever weapons match. Would sell like hotcakes!

Mmmm. Yes, more armor kits. I'd be down for that. Or the occasional plastic release here or there down the road. Those smoke and storm knights would look awfully nice in plastic.

Are those armour kits still only available as mixed units of men and women?

Yes all the armour kits are for male and female survivors,

no idea whether the sprue layout might make splitting them up possible in the future...

(the layout of the plastic pinups I got which came as 2 sprues of 4 figures would support splitting to sell singles if Adam chooses too)

At some point I'd expect the armor kits to be available on their own or, at a minimum, the ones in the core game box. I can easily see the demand for a new batch of survivors being built with a new campaign or second group, but I don't see a pressing demand for more monsters. The same applies to the expansions as well; would you really NEED two dragon kings and two AI decks if you really just wanted that cool torso for a character?

Might not be immediately after the retail release of a given expansion (for somewhat obvious reasons), but "Survivor Boosters" would likely be a long-term revenue stream from both new players and existing ones. It is part of the "cool" factor that you can plunk down a ton of armor and weapons and have your players pick out what they like and that's their character. That gives a much stronger connection to the game to be using "their" survivor that they picked out instead of "Generic Plastic Hero Figure 47" much like there's a world of difference between saying "that one guy" and "my buddy Steve" when discussing news. However, that connection likely can't be maintained long-term if I need to buy the base game again to get more Rawhide or Phoenix armor kits unless I exhaust my own supply of willing gamers (which to be fair is a possibility).

Hence why I think the armor kits being released in some form on their own in a near-inevitability. However, due to where the weapons may be on the sprues I would not be surprised if you have to buy the whole sprue which will likely include both men and women.

Guys I need some help with pledging. I got most of the expansions I wanted first time around, but didn't opt for any pinups or many promos. I am not sure about what to add exactly - so for once I am trying to figure this out by logic...

I am figuring I should get the stuff that definitely won't be available after the KS as I can't get everything. Besides Adam & Anna - are there any other figures that are truly one-offs? Are the promos not going to be available in store for instance?

I am guessing most pinups will be available either loose or like the 10 for $100 so I am not that interested in those.

Expansion wise I left out the big baby (Gorm) as I despise that model for all the wrong reasons However there is the lonely tree, the Lion god and the Sunstalker. Looking purely at the models I feel i can do without them, but looking at them as expansions and the currently available discount... Any recommendations?

Thanks guys.

As far as I understood it, the promos will not be available in stores for a general release, but they will appear on special occassions (like convents, prices, maybe even annually perhaps like black friday?). If you want most bang for your buck you should obviously go with the expansions. But I won't argue with your reasoning, as it is sound. If you don't like the miniatures, just leave 'em out unless you really want the most out of this as a *game*. Then go for the expansions.

 basement.dweller wrote:
Guys I need some help with pledging. I got most of the expansions I wanted first time around, but didn't opt for any pinups or many promos. I am not sure about what to add exactly - so for once I am trying to figure this out by logic...

I am figuring I should get the stuff that definitely won't be available after the KS as I can't get everything. Besides Adam & Anna - are there any other figures that are truly one-offs? Are the promos not going to be available in store for instance?

I am guessing most pinups will be available either loose or like the 10 for $100 so I am not that interested in those.

Expansion wise I left out the big baby (Gorm) as I despise that model for all the wrong reasons However there is the lonely tree, the Lion god and the Sunstalker. Looking purely at the models I feel i can do without them, but looking at them as expansions and the currently available discount... Any recommendations?

Thanks guys.

If those are your choices, Sunstalker, Lonely Tree, and then Lion God in that order. Sunstalker gives the most bang for the buck, Lonely Tree has some sort of crossover with the Phoenix, and from what I understand the Lion God is just a powerful White Lion. You'll also save the most money getting the Sunstalker now I believe.

With all (except the Lion God) now appearing in polystyrene some of Adams earlier intentions regarding how available stuff will be may change

but this is what was said about the promos when they were first introduced (copied from Death Toll), if you've limited funds (and don't like the look of the expansions you've not added) I'd spend my money here

Top pick

Messenger of Courage
Survivor Kara Black! A special promotional miniature that is a collaboration between Kingdom Death & The Legendary Studio McVey!

She comes with
•a KD:M one shot challenge scenario,
•a promo giant stone face gear card and
•a painting guide that will have a special highlight on painting skin tones!

I think Kara is most likely to be unavailable in the future since she'd depends on permission from Studio McVey to release outside the KS

Middle ground

Candy & Cola
She will be available through this kickstarter and in the future be available in a limited fashion for various promotions. She comes with;
•a KD:M one shot challenge scenario,
•a promo soda bottle lantern gear card and
•promo rules for use with Soda Pop Miniatures Relic Knights game!

Note: Soda Pop is now going to be making The Twilight knight, their 'half' of the crossover available from their webstore on an ongoing basis, so Adam will presumably have permission to do so with C&C if he chooses to do so


Messenger of Courage
The Messenger of Courage, a promotional miniature that will only be available thru this kickstarter and future Kingdom Death special events! Some of you may notice a similarity to the Pinup Twilight Knight, Allison. Perhaps this was her before she became a Twilight Knight?
•One Shot Challenge
•Scouts Tunic Gear Card
•2x Promo Rule Cards

Messenger of the Spiral path
The Messenger of The Spiral Path, a promotional miniature that will only be available thru this kickstarter and future Kingdom Death special events! This Messenger discovered what he calls the Spiral Path, a mental course that let's him see the Truth. Perhaps this man has taken his first few steps to becoming a Forsaker?
•One Shot Challenge
•Forsaker Mask Gear Card
•2x Promotional Rule Cards


Messenger of the first story
The Messenger of The First Story, a promotional miniature that will only be available thru this kickstarter and future Kingdom Death special events! This Messenger is a Savior that discovers a way to stop aging. Perhaps she goes on to found the White Speakers, sharing this important first story with them.
She will come with:
•a one-shot challenge scenario,
•a promo gear card and
•a promo hunt and settlement event card.

Messenger of Humanity
The messenger might be the First Twilight Knight to desert the Order. Without a partner Archivist to maintain them, his unique relics and physiology modifications turn to complete chaos. He might chain his sword into its sheath and shred his special hood. Perhaps he strikes out into the nightmare world, once again a mere man, in search of his memories.
Comes with
•One Shot Challenge
•Prosthetic Stone Arm Gear Card
•2x Promo Rule Cards [hunts and settlement]

Least useful

Holiday Nico
She will be available exclusively thru this kickstarter for now...

Nico is a special edition miniature. A "holiday" promotional settlement card is planned to be added into her box. But it's not something that impacts gameplay in anyway.

I love the model but she has less in game value, (and I've a vague recollection there's a tie in with CMON that might mean they'd get some in the future for a holiday KD promotion... I could be wrong though)


On the big expansions all of them should be available from Adam in the future,

The Lion god is (probably) going to be PVC due to time constraints which is not going to be a good as the rest of the kits in terms of sculpt quality/fidelity,

I would not be surprised if in the future Adam didn't either drop it (if the he decides the quality is too far off the rest) or decide to re-do it into polystyrene because he wants it to be the best it can be.... so for $25 you could pick up either something that didn't show up to buy later, or showed up in a different form so the PVC version might have collector appeal

The Lonely Tree I personally love (one of the few things I've doubled up on, and would have gone for 3 if I could have afforded it) and think will make great terrain or RPG scenery,
and at $30 it's still 50% off the eventual price

The sunstalker is probably the least good of the 3 if you don't like the main mini (I do) which is going to be a big part of the cost, 'only' 45% off, and there is an infant sunstalker resin that you might end up feeling you had to get if you had the adult just to be a completionist, and major 'think of the children' issues with it's huge penis

although it does give you a different start point for the game playing as one of the people of the sunas well as 2 extra human minis in addition to the armour kits found in the other expansions

Wow - thank you all for the responses. I just felt I needed a bit of a sounding board for this. It's nice to come back and have some fresh perspectives and opinions to read. I've been painting my sister's house today (not a mini) as we had some great weather for once.

Well the Lion God is definitely out - I hate pvc so easy choice.

Like most of you mentioned, best bang for buck is the expansions so I am contemplating both lonely tree and sunstalker. Arrgh... I am trying to balance this with the closing of the AvP pledge manager Shinies are like damn Pokemons...

Other than that I am loading up on as many promos as I can afford hehe Seems I already had "not-Guts", "not-Zelda" and the Holiday Nico on order... I was gonna order them again - at least my taste is consistent. Oh and Kara is in thanks to Orlando

Yeah, too bad about the Lion God. The only big monsters I didn't pick up were it (on the fence) and the gorm (just don't like it). I was considering picking it up before the material shift.

I'm also definitely looking at the tree.

It should still be OK because:

1) Larger models seem to handle that material better
2) Adam isn't going to let anything sub-par make it into production

It's not impossible that with the extra delay due to the armour kits needing more fine tuning that the Lion God might make it into polystyrene

(Adam did seem to imply it was a factor of time rather than cost that pointed to PVC in the previous update)

so I think it's worth a chance...

If it's PVC it will be ok, and the extra gameplay elements will be cool,

if it does make it to polystyrene it will be a real bargain price wise too and I'll be extra specially delighted (fingers firmly crossed)

You are making it more difficult

What's the difference between polysterene and PVC ?

In which material is GW plastic is ?

thanks

 streetsamurai wrote:
What's the difference between polysterene and PVC ?

In which material is GW plastic is ?

thanks

GW plastic is HIPS (polystyrene)

PVC is a different type of plastic, it's what privateer press and mantic use.

 Cyporiean wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
What's the difference between polysterene and PVC ?

In which material is GW plastic is ?

thanks

GW plastic is HIPS (polystyrene)

PVC is a different type of plastic, it's what privateer press and mantic use.

As a point of comparison, what material are the Sedition Wars plastics made from? Also PVC?

Sedition Wars is also PVC

as are Reaper Bones although it's a more bendy formula

 Cyporiean wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
What's the difference between polysterene and PVC ?

In which material is GW plastic is ?

thanks

GW plastic is HIPS (polystyrene)

PVC is a different type of plastic, it's what privateer press and mantic use.

got it, so PVC is what people calls restic.

thanks

 streetsamurai wrote:
What's the difference between polysterene and PVC ?

In which material is GW plastic is ?

thanks

Polystyrene is made from congealed angel kisses. Restic is what Ilsa the SS She-wolf used to break the will of her prisoners.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
What's the difference between polysterene and PVC ?

In which material is GW plastic is ?

thanks

Polystyrene is made from congealed angel kisses. Restic is what Ilsa the SS She-wolf used to break the will of her prisoners.

I feel ashamed to know the reference.

Yea.... me too