Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

hotsauceman1 wrote:Thats what i hear around my flgs. The reason they pushed so much was because they where sitting n so much.

Still sitting on stock doesn't make it a failure. It was only released 3 months ago. GW still had stock of Space Hulk after 3 months as well, and everyone seems to agree that release was a roaring success.

Most boardgames don't sell out overnight. It's a success if it sells as many units as they expected it to...

oni wrote:Just bought and received a box of Space Marine Vanguard Vets... NOT A SINGLE USABLE PART IN THE WHOLE BOX!

Pathetic is too kind a word to describe this box of Vets.

I called customer service and was asked which parts have issues so that he could pull those parts and send them to me.

There was a period of silence when I explained that he'll need to pull every part to every model as nothing is usable.

I was then asked if I had the models in front of me. I called from work and so didn't have them. After explaining this I was asked to call back when I had the models. I'll be calling once I'm home and will post the outcome.

Actually before you start posting stuff off, won't they accept a photograph as proof?

Howard A Treesong wrote:

oni wrote:Just bought and received a box of Space Marine Vanguard Vets... NOT A SINGLE USABLE PART IN THE WHOLE BOX!

Pathetic is too kind a word to describe this box of Vets.

I called customer service and was asked which parts have issues so that he could pull those parts and send them to me.

There was a period of silence when I explained that he'll need to pull every part to every model as nothing is usable.

I was then asked if I had the models in front of me. I called from work and so didn't have them. After explaining this I was asked to call back when I had the models. I'll be calling once I'm home and will post the outcome.

Actually before you start posting stuff off, won't they accept a photograph as proof?

They asked me to take pic of the failcast and email it to them.
though i did receive a replacement, its also a failcast.

Now im wondering.... am i supposed to email them again this time with.... both failcast photographed?

Kepora wrote:And yet not a single other case like this has come forth, let alone one with actual evidence. The 10-overlords-in-a-row is an anomally, from one guy on the internet with really bad luck.

10 in a row isn't bad luck. It's a product in dire need of review.

And yes, there hasn't been anyone else mention anything as extreme as that. I would suspect that would be because most people would have just given up after number 3 or 4, and either asked for their money back or just settled for what they had on the assumption that it wasn't going to get any better.

But we've had an awful lot of people mention getting replacement miniatures as bad or worse than the original purchase. The only thing that makes the 10 Overlords unusual is how long he chose to continue trying for a good cast. Those 10 Overlords would still have been just as miscast if they had gone to 10 different customers.

I have bought many finecast kits and they all have been great-no flaws at all. I guess I am just very lucky. I will continue to buy finecast. There is always eBay and Craig's List if you want to purchase an OOP pewter mini.

That works for older models which are being redone in this material -666-, but what about someone who decides to start Necrons in the near future, and wants to get hold of a metal version of one of the special characters? Or a Vampire Counts player who wants a metal version of the new Krell or Isabella von Carstein?

insaniak wrote:

Kepora wrote:And yet not a single other case like this has come forth, let alone one with actual evidence. The 10-overlords-in-a-row is an anomally, from one guy on the internet with really bad luck.

10 in a row isn't bad luck. It's a product in dire need of review.

And yes, there hasn't been anyone else mention anything as extreme as that. I would suspect that would be because most people would have just given up after number 3 or 4, and either asked for their money back or just settled for what they had on the assumption that it wasn't going to get any better.

But we've had an awful lot of people mention getting replacement miniatures as bad or worse than the original purchase. The only thing that makes the 10 Overlords unusual is how long he chose to continue trying for a good cast. Those 10 Overlords would still have been just as miscast if they had gone to 10 different customers.

Even on this own thread there's link to more blogs with finecast bad experiences, everywhere online there is a HUGE influx report...

NAVARRO wrote:Another blog from a painter that goes through 3 finecasts and the promise from GW quality control to send in a good cast and delivering... well check it out!

http://corvusminiatures.blogspot.com/2011/12/my-finecast-story-part-3.html

So if you Kepora have not seen any reports before you may as well have not read this thread or any miniature forum for months.

When they first issued finecast there were several people needing multiple replacements, one had nearly 10 to get a decent terminator librarian, although several of those they sorted through and rejected in the shop.

Reading this page...

http://colshofer.blogspot.com/2011/12/colonels-second-finecast-foray-part-2.html

It seems that GW are rushing the casting, that's why some are deformed (being removed before they are cured) and others take pieces of mould with them. And if they are rushing them out of the moulds then the fact that they skimp on the QC is not a huge surprise.

Shows how much the mark up is on the miniatures, that they can afford to replace them in such quantity and not bother having to improve the casting process or quality control.

Old Man Ultramarine wrote:

Old Man Ultramarine wrote:

Old Man Ultramarine wrote:I will be calling GW within a few hours. I have 5 finecast blisters with problems. I will make a seperate post to chronicle my adventure.

GW customer service replaced Cryptek, Imotekh, Necron Lord, SM termie Librarian, and 2 Harliquins. I should have in 4-6 days.

sidenote. I saw many airbubbles on my Necron Overlord's cape and torso. Rep said they were supposed to be there. I haven't seen many pictures to refute, so I will assume he is correct.

So today I got around to looking closely at my replacements. I was not impressed. Another call going out tomorrow. I'm also emailing them the follwing pictures.

I sent GW customer service an email with pictures and a brief desription. that was 4 weeks ago. No response. I will be calling them this week. I was all gung-ho to speed built a Necron force, but failure of getting junk Necron fine cast models ground my ambition to a halt.

You what's the most annoying part of it all? GW has Forge World making all these resin kits with minimal defects. Follow their practices, for sake

Again, you gotta look at how many GW has to churn out compared to Forgeworld. Forgeworld tends to cast-to-order to my knowledge (at least with the larger kits), whereas GW has to have a very large and continuously resupplying stock.

"but that's no excuse they do with with metal and plastics!!!11!1"

Actually, if you udnerstand the resin-casting process, you'd know that mass-producing it is going to be difficult at best.

Kepora wrote:Actually, if you udnerstand the resin-casting process, you'd know that mass-producing it is going to be difficult at best.

So... people should accept sub-par castings because the process is difficult?

Surely, if the material is really not ideal for mass-production, the more reasonable option would have been for the company to, you know, not change to it in the first place?

insaniak wrote:

Kepora wrote:Actually, if you udnerstand the resin-casting process, you'd know that mass-producing it is going to be difficult at best.

So... people should accept sub-par castings because the process is difficult?

Surely, if the material is really not ideal for mass-production, the more reasonable option would have been for the company to, you know, not change to it in the first place?

Agreed.

Again, how can Anyone defend this over priced, shabby, low quality, over hyped crap, it probably costs around a few pounds to make a single Bloodthirster, and then they charge 30+ pounds for a miniature full of holes and lacking any form of quantity control. But then again, we're all just 'Haters' and despite the hundreds of examples, it isn't enough to show that this poor example of molding is another sign GW has screwed over its fans. I still bought their miniutes when they raised the prices to that of drugs, I used their own equipment when other better quality stuff was available, this crossed the god damm line.

Kepora wrote:Again, you gotta look at how many GW has to churn out compared to Forgeworld. Forgeworld tends to cast-to-order to my knowledge (at least with the larger kits), whereas GW has to have a very large and continuously resupplying stock.

"but that's no excuse they do with with metal and plastics!!!11!1"

Actually, if you udnerstand the resin-casting process, you'd know that mass-producing it is going to be difficult at best.

Translation:

"It's not GW that sucks it's resin that sucks. It's not finecast that sucks, it's all resin."

If you are going to produce a premium product for a premium price, you might not want to use a hinky material, rush the process and at the same time remove QC. Their profits were up 40% last quarter, go hire some QC guys.

You should choose a material well suited to the mode of production you want to achieve. Forgeworld can do resin because they are a relatively small operation. It's not an excuse to say "The material we chose isn't suited to the high production we have to run".

Really that should have been sorted before the switch-over. They switched to finecast because the raw material was cheaper, they don't really appear to have considered the other aspects. Like asking "is this material suitable for the high level of production we need to maintain?" Maybe they did ask these questions, but for whatever reason they went ahead and the answer at the moment appears to be 'no'.

It's a bit late to change back now, oops.

blood reaper wrote:Again, how can Anyone defend this over priced, shabby, low quality, over hyped crap, it probably costs around a few pounds to make a single Bloodthirster, and then they charge 30+ pounds for a miniature full of holes and lacking any form of quantity control. But then again, we're all just 'Haters' and despite the hundreds of examples, it isn't enough to show that this poor example of molding is another sign GW has screwed over its fans. I still bought their miniutes when they raised the prices to that of drugs, I used their own equipment when other better quality stuff was available, this crossed the god damm line.

Because with Finecast I don't have to stick a fishing weight on the base of my Zoanthropes so they will stand up on a level table.

I'm one of those people who prefers Finecast over metal. I like that it's easier to work with than metal. I don't need to pin a metal arm to a metal body so it'll have a chance of staying there for more than 1 game. I like that its easier to convert - I don't need a razor saw to do a head swap, then repair the damage. I can just get clippers into the neck and pop the head off. I like that tall models aren't hideously balanced (see the above Zoanthrope example).

Still, even as someone who likes the product, I agree they need to sort their gak out. I don't want to see a return to metal, and I don't really care that they raised the prices while moving to cheaper material - I just want to not have to hold my breath and pray when I open a finecast pack. That's my grounds for defending it - that I prefer working with this material than metal. But obviously, because of that, I'm a GW white knight who is blinded to the realities of whats going on, even though I absolutely agree that they need to sort out their casting process.

-Loki- wrote:

blood reaper wrote:Again, how can Anyone defend this over priced, shabby, low quality, over hyped crap, it probably costs around a few pounds to make a single Bloodthirster, and then they charge 30+ pounds for a miniature full of holes and lacking any form of quantity control. But then again, we're all just 'Haters' and despite the hundreds of examples, it isn't enough to show that this poor example of molding is another sign GW has screwed over its fans. I still bought their miniutes when they raised the prices to that of drugs, I used their own equipment when other better quality stuff was available, this crossed the god damm line.

Because with Finecast I don't have to stick a fishing weight on the base of my Zoanthropes so they will stand up on a level table.

I'm one of those people who prefers Finecast over metal. I like that it's easier to work with than metal. I don't need to pin a metal arm to a metal body so it'll have a chance of staying there for more than 1 game. I like that its easier to convert - I don't need a razor saw to do a head swap, then repair the damage. I can just get clippers into the neck and pop the head off. I like that tall models aren't hideously balanced (see the above Zoanthrope example).

Still, even as someone who likes the product, I agree they need to sort their gak out. I don't want to see a return to metal, and I don't really care that they raised the prices while moving to cheaper material - I just want to not have to hold my breath and pray when I open a finecast pack. That's my grounds for defending it - that I prefer working with this material than metal. But obviously, because of that, I'm a GW white knight who is blinded to the realities of whats going on, even though I absolutely agree that they need to sort out their casting process.

This thread was never about resin vs metal.

The argument is about the inferior method or quality the way GW produces failcast resin.

Failcast defenders over and over again jumps back and bunker behind the excuse of " i rather have resin over metal"

WHICH IS FINE.

But fail crap doesnt really represent resin does it, when chinese counterfeiters makes perfect casts.

This pattern almost makes me believe GW fans that defends failcast have never seeing resin casts besides finecast.

I just bought a box of Sternguard and after opening the box they are flawless.

LunaHound wrote:

-Loki- wrote:

blood reaper wrote:Again, how can Anyone defend this over priced, shabby, low quality, over hyped crap, it probably costs around a few pounds to make a single Bloodthirster, and then they charge 30+ pounds for a miniature full of holes and lacking any form of quantity control. But then again, we're all just 'Haters' and despite the hundreds of examples, it isn't enough to show that this poor example of molding is another sign GW has screwed over its fans. I still bought their miniutes when they raised the prices to that of drugs, I used their own equipment when other better quality stuff was available, this crossed the god damm line.

Because with Finecast I don't have to stick a fishing weight on the base of my Zoanthropes so they will stand up on a level table.

I'm one of those people who prefers Finecast over metal. I like that it's easier to work with than metal. I don't need to pin a metal arm to a metal body so it'll have a chance of staying there for more than 1 game. I like that its easier to convert - I don't need a razor saw to do a head swap, then repair the damage. I can just get clippers into the neck and pop the head off. I like that tall models aren't hideously balanced (see the above Zoanthrope example).

Still, even as someone who likes the product, I agree they need to sort their gak out. I don't want to see a return to metal, and I don't really care that they raised the prices while moving to cheaper material - I just want to not have to hold my breath and pray when I open a finecast pack. That's my grounds for defending it - that I prefer working with this material than metal. But obviously, because of that, I'm a GW white knight who is blinded to the realities of whats going on, even though I absolutely agree that they need to sort out their casting process.

This thread was never about resin vs metal.

The argument is about the inferior method or quality the way GW produces failcast resin.

Failcast defenders over and over again jumps back and bunker behind the excuse of " i rather have resin over metal"

WHICH IS FINE.

But fail crap doesnt really represent resin does it, when chinese counterfeiters makes perfect casts.

This pattern almost makes me believe GW fans that defends failcast have never seeing resin casts besides finecast.

First off: this "Failcast" thing isn't cute, funny, nor clever. it's getting old fast/

Second off: I own other resin miniatures, notably Forgeworld models and even some from China and Russia I acquired via ebay. And despite the immediate price hike, you guys are forgetting two critical factors:

1: GW made the switch for the -stability- of the price of Finecast resin. In the current economy, metal prices are all over the place, but in general are going up.
2: GW is GW. THey would've hiked the price for the models anyways-just that we wouldn't be able to put the damn things together in the first place (see: Thunderfire cannons, any plastic/metal hybrid) or stand up worth a damn (See: zoanthropes, metal marines with jump packs, and again any plastic/metal hybrid). Finecast has it's flaws, and I've never said otherwise; most of what we've been getting in this thread though is the minority isntead of the silent majority, whom are quite frankly impossible to guage unless evey person who owns Finecast were to suddenly come to Dakka and post pictures in this thread. Get a good cast? Excellent, you build and paint your mini, maybe even display it ina P&M blog on your site of choice (if you have one)! Got a bad one? Come to this thread and complain. Most people who've posted in this thread have yet to even TRY a Finecast model.

-666- wrote:I just bought a box of Sternguard and after opening the box they are flawless.

Great! Could we gest some pictures? I'm particularly fond of the sergeant (the MK8 collar, Crusader helmet, and that style of powerfist), and I want to see how the details on it came out.

I only have one finecast model - the Skaven Warlord, and it is just fine; no flaws whatsoever.

Cryage wrote:Opened my Imotekh this week.

The last frayed ending of his staff was snapped off, his jaw was unhinged from his face, the last 2 joints of his middle finger on his glove was snapped off (this was tough to find as its as small as the regular flashing , i thought it was missing entirely), and lastly the staff is horribly curved and I know if I try to re-bend the staff it will simply snap.

Finecast is 0/3 in packages opened and not having any issues with me ... and I still have a Coteaz in its blister waiting to be opened... :(

daedalus wrote:I don't understand why people are still buying these. I mean, if I had a lever that shocked me every time I pulled it, sooner or later, you'd think I would stop pulling the lever, because I would realize that it's painful.

Sadly, all newer necron models are failcast... I mean i have 3x old lords, 5x pariahs to proxy as lords.... but imotekh, trazyn... they need to be failcast :(

If it makes you feel better, the Coteaz that I got was perfect...until I remodeled him to being crushed by a landing Crisis suit

Not everyone who gets a bad Finecast will post on dakka dakka.

LunaHound wrote:But fail crap doesnt really represent resin does it, when chinese counterfeiters makes perfect casts.

When a 'boutique' studio like Studio Mcvey, reknowned for great quality models and casts, sends out a completely fethed up model from a limited run of ~700 models ever, I'd say Finecast having miscasts represents resin quite well.

Casting anything with significant detail in resin has issues.

But then, I'm still not defending GW's problems. They should be picking these out on the production line and throwing them in the bin. Just pointing out that even a company well known for the quality of its models and making only ~700 of a model (a number that's easy to eyeball every single individual model) puts out completely fethed up resin models. When quantity goes up, so do the amount of problematic models that get past.

zinge wrote:Not everyone who gets a bad Finecast will post on dakka dakka.

I'm not so sure about that to be honest.

Ever notice that most of the people on this tread that defend finecast have very few posts in their profile. I smell moles.

:-)

Kepora wrote:First off: this "Failcast" thing isn't cute, funny, nor clever. it's getting old fast/

Second off: I own other resin miniatures, notably Forgeworld models and even some from China and Russia I acquired via ebay. And despite the immediate price hike, you guys are forgetting two critical factors:

1: GW made the switch for the -stability- of the price of Finecast resin. In the current economy, metal prices are all over the place, but in general are going up.
2: GW is GW. THey would've hiked the price for the models anyways-just that we wouldn't be able to put the damn things together in the first place (see: Thunderfire cannons, any plastic/metal hybrid) or stand up worth a damn (See: zoanthropes, metal marines with jump packs, and again any plastic/metal hybrid). Finecast has it's flaws, and I've never said otherwise; most of what we've been getting in this thread though is the minority isntead of the silent majority, whom are quite frankly impossible to guage unless evey person who owns Finecast were to suddenly come to Dakka and post pictures in this thread. Get a good cast? Excellent, you build and paint your mini, maybe even display it ina P&M blog on your site of choice (if you have one)! Got a bad one? Come to this thread and complain. Most people who've posted in this thread have yet to even TRY a Finecast model.

1st off , failcast is a fair term used on failcasts i refuse to call a turd "GOLD" by calling it an undeserving name.
Its a fact , not supposed to be cute. What is cute is, ME.

2nd, I dont care for the stability or any excuses. Why? because GW is a business, a company, NOT CHARITY.
If i want to be forgiving, then they would have to be none profit. But since they are profit company, they need to have competence.
Lack of competence in delivering a product that sells for money is not an excuse nor does it incite sympathy.

Most people that posted have yet to try a failcast? How do you jump to that conclusion? oh I know, its that hard right? because the box is transparent and people cant see?

Andrew1975 wrote:Ever notice that most of the people on this tread that defend finecast have very few posts in their profile. I smell moles.

Or perhaps those of us with a high post count who also buy finecast just don't care enough to get waste deep in troll poo.

LunaHound wrote:

1st off , failcast is a fair term used on failcasts i refuse to call a turd "GOLD" by calling it an undeserving name.
Its a fact , not supposed to be cute. What is cute is, ME.

Pics or it never happened hun =o]


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Breotan wrote:

Andrew1975 wrote:Ever notice that most of the people on this tread that defend finecast have very few posts in their profile. I smell moles.

Or perhaps those of us with a high post count who also buy finecast just don't care enough to get waste deep in troll poo.

And some of us do

Went to the closest GW store on Friday (60+ miles) to take my first look at the Finecast resin figs other than two Hive Guard I bought painted on ebay and have not dared to strip yet. Took my 3x Optivisor* and used it to look at most of the blister figs on the rack, say around 30 figs. Given that you can only see one side, I saw two figs that needed to be pulled, an Eldar Autarch with wings that had a lot of feathers on the lower part of the wings that did not fill completely and a Necron lord that had a lot of bubbles at the lower third of his cape. No way to repair these without a lot of actual sculpting. Other packs of the Necron lord and the Autarch wings were fine. I did see air bubbles in some of the models, but nothing horrible.

The biggest problem I saw was bent weapons and staffs and there were quite a few of those. Some of them looked to be a challenge to fix even with resin that does not have a memory.

While talking to the main GW guy (assistant manager?), he did say that they checked the models and pulled bad ones they spotted before putting them on the racks and they do open the sealed boxes for inspection in the store when the customer buys them. He showed me two pulled figs with kinked swords that I doubt could be fixed.

As far as possible GW/resin bias goes, I started Armorcast and owned it until 2007, so I'm not the biggest fan of GW, and I do have LOT of experience with resin including some 28mm figures.

*Magnification makes it MUCH EASIER to spot defects and much harder to overlook them in small, detailed resin castings. I definitely suggest some sort of magnification when inspecting Finecast figures. Even strong reading glasses will help.

Tim DuPertuis
Armorcast 1995-2007