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What an awesome run you had Tim.

timd wrote:While talking to the main GW guy (assistant manager?), he did say that they checked the models and pulled bad ones they spotted before putting them on the racks and they do open the sealed boxes for inspection in the store when the customer buys them.

Which, really, should be all the evidence needed to show that there is definitely a problem with the product.

LunaHound wrote:

Kepora wrote:First off: this "Failcast" thing isn't cute, funny, nor clever. it's getting old fast/

Second off: I own other resin miniatures, notably Forgeworld models and even some from China and Russia I acquired via ebay. And despite the immediate price hike, you guys are forgetting two critical factors:

1: GW made the switch for the -stability- of the price of Finecast resin. In the current economy, metal prices are all over the place, but in general are going up.
2: GW is GW. THey would've hiked the price for the models anyways-just that we wouldn't be able to put the damn things together in the first place (see: Thunderfire cannons, any plastic/metal hybrid) or stand up worth a damn (See: zoanthropes, metal marines with jump packs, and again any plastic/metal hybrid). Finecast has it's flaws, and I've never said otherwise; most of what we've been getting in this thread though is the minority isntead of the silent majority, whom are quite frankly impossible to guage unless evey person who owns Finecast were to suddenly come to Dakka and post pictures in this thread. Get a good cast? Excellent, you build and paint your mini, maybe even display it ina P&M blog on your site of choice (if you have one)! Got a bad one? Come to this thread and complain. Most people who've posted in this thread have yet to even TRY a Finecast model.

1st off , failcast is a fair term used on failcasts i refuse to call a turd "GOLD" by calling it an undeserving name.
Its a fact , not supposed to be cute. What is cute is, ME.

2nd, I dont care for the stability or any excuses. Why? because GW is a business, a company, NOT CHARITY.
If i want to be forgiving, then they would have to be none profit. But since they are profit company, they need to have competence.
Lack of competence in delivering a product that sells for money is not an excuse nor does it incite sympathy.

Most people that posted have yet to try a failcast? How do you jump to that conclusion? oh I know, its that hard right? because the box is transparent and people cant see?

First off: No, you're NOT cute, not with this attitude and just re-using the same "joke"/meme that everyone else on here is using and thinking it makes you cool/witty/whatever, when in allr eality it's just annoying as all hell.

Second off: Um...them being a business is the REASON the stability of the price is good. If the price of metal fluctuates, then the prices of the miniatures would skyrocket far beyond Finecast costs, and even if the prices of metals went down afterwards they'd still need to recover the expenses by trying to sell the rest of the miniatures made in metal, and then subsequent oens would have to be sold at higher prices despite the cheaper metal to make up for ones made with expensive metal that didn't more/are moving slowly. $20-$30 for a single figure is bad enough; imagine logging onto GW's website and seeing a Terminator Librarian for $60 becaus emetal stocks went through the roof.

I'm not defending FInecast's faults; what you idiots who blabber on about "Failcast" and "Failcost" and "Finecrapst" (which is by far the single most idiotic name I've heard since that guy who called his kid Xorion) fail to realize is WHY GW DID IT. The age of metal models is coming to an end because of the global market, the demand for metal in all countries due to unstable times and uncertainty in the big economic players, and miniatures-decidedly a luxury item-are one of the first things being hit. People in here act like it's some grand scheme by GW, but what in the hell makes sense about releasing a faulted product like Finecast after realeasing beautiful lines like the Dark Eldar and Necrons? Simply put: they had to. And yes, the new plastic single figures are neat; the only reason they can recoup the costs for making injection-molded plastic figures like that is to make the figure generic enough to have multiple uses. If they make an HQ character that happens to be very unpopular for whatever reason and doesn't sell, they lose FAR more money on plastic injection molding equipment than resin-casting.

LunaHound wrote:It’s a fact, not supposed to be cute. What is cute is ME.

You have officially won this thread.

Even if what you are saying is true about having to do it.......which is not true, there is still no excuse for the lax QC. That being said Failcast

Kepora wrote:First off: No, you're NOT cute, not with this attitude and just re-using the same "joke"/meme that everyone else on here is using and thinking it makes you cool/witty/whatever, when in allr eality it's just annoying as all hell.

Second off: Um...them being a business is the REASON the stability of the price is good. If the price of metal fluctuates, then the prices of the miniatures would skyrocket far beyond Finecast costs, and even if the prices of metals went down afterwards they'd still need to recover the expenses by trying to sell the rest of the miniatures made in metal, and then subsequent oens would have to be sold at higher prices despite the cheaper metal to make up for ones made with expensive metal that didn't more/are moving slowly. $20-$30 for a single figure is bad enough; imagine logging onto GW's website and seeing a Terminator Librarian for $60 becaus emetal stocks went through the roof.

I'm not defending FInecast's faults; what you idiots who blabber on about "Failcast" and "Failcost" and "Finecrapst" (which is by far the single most idiotic name I've heard since that guy who called his kid Xorion) fail to realize is WHY GW DID IT. The age of metal models is coming to an end because of the global market, the demand for metal in all countries due to unstable times and uncertainty in the big economic players, and miniatures-decidedly a luxury item-are one of the first things being hit. People in here act like it's some grand scheme by GW, but what in the hell makes sense about releasing a faulted product like Finecast after realeasing beautiful lines like the Dark Eldar and Necrons? Simply put: they had to. And yes, the new plastic single figures are neat; the only reason they can recoup the costs for making injection-molded plastic figures like that is to make the figure generic enough to have multiple uses. If they make an HQ character that happens to be very unpopular for whatever reason and doesn't sell, they lose FAR more money on plastic injection molding equipment than resin-casting.

First of all, don't call people idiots. We have rules on forum, I have to follow them or get banned which I also have, so should you.
1) Just because metal is expensive doesn't excuse failcast to be horribly casted. I have no issues with resin replacing metal, I just have issues with TONS OF BADLY CASTED RESINs, see the difference?

2) And then we have the audacity from GW praising it like its the finest silk caressing their butt.

3) Again, you keep defending the quality of failcast due to GW's desperate attempt to switch to the new materials.
And im telling you again, Im not sympathetic about it. why?

a) Resin is not new, GW can should have done their homework to produce presentable product
b) Incompetence is not an excuse.

Kepora wrote:

LunaHound wrote:

Kepora wrote:First off: this "Failcast" thing isn't cute, funny, nor clever. it's getting old fast/

Second off: I own other resin miniatures, notably Forgeworld models and even some from China and Russia I acquired via ebay. And despite the immediate price hike, you guys are forgetting two critical factors:

1: GW made the switch for the -stability- of the price of Finecast resin. In the current economy, metal prices are all over the place, but in general are going up.
2: GW is GW. THey would've hiked the price for the models anyways-just that we wouldn't be able to put the damn things together in the first place (see: Thunderfire cannons, any plastic/metal hybrid) or stand up worth a damn (See: zoanthropes, metal marines with jump packs, and again any plastic/metal hybrid). Finecast has it's flaws, and I've never said otherwise; most of what we've been getting in this thread though is the minority isntead of the silent majority, whom are quite frankly impossible to guage unless evey person who owns Finecast were to suddenly come to Dakka and post pictures in this thread. Get a good cast? Excellent, you build and paint your mini, maybe even display it ina P&M blog on your site of choice (if you have one)! Got a bad one? Come to this thread and complain. Most people who've posted in this thread have yet to even TRY a Finecast model.

1st off , failcast is a fair term used on failcasts i refuse to call a turd "GOLD" by calling it an undeserving name.
Its a fact , not supposed to be cute. What is cute is, ME.

2nd, I dont care for the stability or any excuses. Why? because GW is a business, a company, NOT CHARITY.
If i want to be forgiving, then they would have to be none profit. But since they are profit company, they need to have competence.
Lack of competence in delivering a product that sells for money is not an excuse nor does it incite sympathy.

Most people that posted have yet to try a failcast? How do you jump to that conclusion? oh I know, its that hard right? because the box is transparent and people cant see?

First off: No, you're NOT cute, not with this attitude and just re-using the same "joke"/meme that everyone else on here is using and thinking it makes you cool/witty/whatever, when in allr eality it's just annoying as all hell.

Second off: Um...them being a business is the REASON the stability of the price is good. If the price of metal fluctuates, then the prices of the miniatures would skyrocket far beyond Finecast costs, and even if the prices of metals went down afterwards they'd still need to recover the expenses by trying to sell the rest of the miniatures made in metal, and then subsequent oens would have to be sold at higher prices despite the cheaper metal to make up for ones made with expensive metal that didn't more/are moving slowly. $20-$30 for a single figure is bad enough; imagine logging onto GW's website and seeing a Terminator Librarian for $60 becaus emetal stocks went through the roof.

I'm not defending FInecast's faults; what you idiots who blabber on about "Failcast" and "Failcost" and "Finecrapst" (which is by far the single most idiotic name I've heard since that guy who called his kid Xorion) fail to realize is WHY GW DID IT. The age of metal models is coming to an end because of the global market, the demand for metal in all countries due to unstable times and uncertainty in the big economic players, and miniatures-decidedly a luxury item-are one of the first things being hit. People in here act like it's some grand scheme by GW, but what in the hell makes sense about releasing a faulted product like Finecast after realeasing beautiful lines like the Dark Eldar and Necrons? Simply put: they had to. And yes, the new plastic single figures are neat; the only reason they can recoup the costs for making injection-molded plastic figures like that is to make the figure generic enough to have multiple uses. If they make an HQ character that happens to be very unpopular for whatever reason and doesn't sell, they lose FAR more money on plastic injection molding equipment than resin-casting.

I guess I am the poster-boy for speaking up against GW, but try to not think about that for a minute.

Chapterhouse cast in both Resin and Metal, heck I do the metal in house, I dont have the facilities to do resin casting myself. The cost of metal has not skyrocketed to the point that GW was not making a LOT of profit off of its metal figure prices. Hell, from experience I can tell you the $20 GW was charging for lets say a Hive Guard metal figure, was probably netting them about $15-16 profit if you counted the full production cost of the figure (design, packaging and casting). I will not comment on GW not-so-thought-out retail operations and the expense to run them.

I can say this because I know what my profit would be on such a figure, and once you throw in the economy of scale for GW, who has much better resources and can buy materials much cheaper then I can.

Now metal prices have gone up from say 5-10 years ago. Then again so have GWs prices. 10 years ago a metal Tyranid Warrior would run you what, 8-10$? Nowadays that same size figure is 20-25$. So again GW was not losing money on that figure, if anything they made more profit from its production to sale.

So this whole thing about having to move to resin because it is unfeasable to use metal is hog-wash. Also for anyone who is in the sculpting and production of miniatures industry will tell you that metal holds detail just as well (if not better) then resin. So just about the only benefit of resin is weight and ease of assembly. If one thinks about the trade-offs of GWs resin formula - fragile, prone to miscast - its pretty much a wash.

As far as resin being difficult to due properly in large numbers.. again bullocks. Forge World does it, McVey does it, heck even my small business does it, and while my company has some breakage in its resin kits sometimes (and I miss it when packing orders), we do not have issues with resin bubbles so much in our resin kits. I did have one producer who was making subpar products, but we have since stopped working with that manufacturer. The current resin caster we use has a pretty good track record, and I think most of my customers will be happy to say that our resin kits rarely suffer from the mishaps that "Finecast" have so often.

I would also say the resin formula we ship out is much less likely to be so flexible and break so easily.

I am still trying to figure out how GW messed up Finecast so much, admittedly they had some pretty awesome plastic and metal kits and now they have this new product that is very "underwhelming".

Nick

Kepora wrote:most of what we've been getting in this thread though is the minority isntead of the silent majority, whom are quite frankly impossible to guage unless evey person who owns Finecast were to suddenly come to Dakka and post pictures in this thread.

Sure, it's impossible to make sweeping generalizations about a large population, based upon the tiny fraction of posters in this thread.

Kepora wrote:Most people who've posted in this thread have yet to even TRY a Finecast model.

Unless it's convenient, of course.

Truthfully I'm not sure what you're hoping to accomplish here. You've made your point several times - you think the QC is terrible, just like everyone else, but, you keep erecting strawmen (like "everyone on dakka hates finecast") and then beating on them ("but dakka is a small percentage of whatever"), while also giving Games workshop the pressures of being a large company (giant scale of production) without giving them any of the advantages of being a large company (they have millions of dollars to hire inspectors, build lines, and do test pilots), while simultaneously injecting invective into the narrative ("you idiots') designed to inflame responses to you.

So, I'm just wondering where you're going with this, really. Is it aiming for a lock, or for meaningful dialogue?

I don't believe, contrary to what you said, that a single poster in this thread was unclear on why they did it (costs less, insulates them from rising metals prices). The real confusion is why they did it so poorly.

-Loki- wrote:

blood reaper wrote:Again, how can Anyone defend this over priced, shabby, low quality, over hyped crap, it probably costs around a few pounds to make a single Bloodthirster, and then they charge 30+ pounds for a miniature full of holes and lacking any form of quantity control. But then again, we're all just 'Haters' and despite the hundreds of examples, it isn't enough to show that this poor example of molding is another sign GW has screwed over its fans. I still bought their miniutes when they raised the prices to that of drugs, I used their own equipment when other better quality stuff was available, this crossed the god damm line.

Because with Finecast I don't have to stick a fishing weight on the base of my Zoanthropes so they will stand up on a level table.

I'm one of those people who prefers Finecast over metal. I like that it's easier to work with than metal. I don't need to pin a metal arm to a metal body so it'll have a chance of staying there for more than 1 game. I like that its easier to convert - I don't need a razor saw to do a head swap, then repair the damage. I can just get clippers into the neck and pop the head off. I like that tall models aren't hideously balanced (see the above Zoanthrope example).

Still, even as someone who likes the product, I agree they need to sort their gak out. I don't want to see a return to metal, and I don't really care that they raised the prices while moving to cheaper material - I just want to not have to hold my breath and pray when I open a finecast pack. That's my grounds for defending it - that I prefer working with this material than metal. But obviously, because of that, I'm a GW white knight who is blinded to the realities of whats going on, even though I absolutely agree that they need to sort out their casting process.

1: Metal was never part of this discussion, never use that argument when that statement does not effect the situation, if you wish to start a thread on that topic please do so.
2: Finecast is cheaper material for a more expensive price, do you think that makes any sense?
3: The 'Lightness' and weight of Finecast may be a good thing for some, but several models with fin parts (Necron Capes as proven heavily by this thread) are easy to snap and break on the gaming table.
4: Heat affects this material ridiculously, causing bending and damage to the massively expensive product.

.

It would indeed be appreciated if users would refrain from name calling and comments to do the intellectual ability ( or lack thereof) of other members etc etc .

Thanks.

Interesting comments Chapterhouse from someone inside the industry, thanks for posting them.

I do wonder why I can still buy a single metal miniature from pretty much any manufacturer at a cheaper price than the new Finecast. And it's not like you can say you're paying for sculpting quality, some of the stuff Corvus Belli are putting out for Infinity at the moment is at least, if not more so, as detailed as anything in the GW range.

Pacific wrote:Interesting comments Chapterhouse from someone inside the industry, thanks for posting them.

I do wonder why I can still buy a single metal miniature from pretty much any manufacturer at a cheaper price than the new Finecast. And it's not like you can say you're paying for sculpting quality, some of the stuff Corvus Belli are putting out for Infinity at the moment is at least, if not more so, as detailed as anything in the GW range.

With all due respect my dear friend Infinity details are worlds apart from anything GW but more importantly than just packing minis with tons of little stuff the big difference is more noticeable on the balance between details and design and there its Universes apart

I enjoy Finecast, miscasts are non-apparent and any problems are minor.

I do not enjoy the price, thus I buy Forgeworld instead.

Andrew1975 wrote:Ever notice that most of the people on this tread that defend finecast have very few posts in their profile. I smell moles.

I got a Slyth (spelling?) and it was perfect. (It came with a 25mm base though...derp.)

LunaHound wrote:

Kepora wrote:First off: No, you're NOT cute, not with this attitude and just re-using the same "joke"/meme that everyone else on here is using and thinking it makes you cool/witty/whatever, when in allr eality it's just annoying as all hell.

Second off: Um...them being a business is the REASON the stability of the price is good. If the price of metal fluctuates, then the prices of the miniatures would skyrocket far beyond Finecast costs, and even if the prices of metals went down afterwards they'd still need to recover the expenses by trying to sell the rest of the miniatures made in metal, and then subsequent oens would have to be sold at higher prices despite the cheaper metal to make up for ones made with expensive metal that didn't more/are moving slowly. $20-$30 for a single figure is bad enough; imagine logging onto GW's website and seeing a Terminator Librarian for $60 becaus emetal stocks went through the roof.

I'm not defending FInecast's faults; what you idiots who blabber on about "Failcast" and "Failcost" and "Finecrapst" (which is by far the single most idiotic name I've heard since that guy who called his kid Xorion) fail to realize is WHY GW DID IT. The age of metal models is coming to an end because of the global market, the demand for metal in all countries due to unstable times and uncertainty in the big economic players, and miniatures-decidedly a luxury item-are one of the first things being hit. People in here act like it's some grand scheme by GW, but what in the hell makes sense about releasing a faulted product like Finecast after realeasing beautiful lines like the Dark Eldar and Necrons? Simply put: they had to. And yes, the new plastic single figures are neat; the only reason they can recoup the costs for making injection-molded plastic figures like that is to make the figure generic enough to have multiple uses. If they make an HQ character that happens to be very unpopular for whatever reason and doesn't sell, they lose FAR more money on plastic injection molding equipment than resin-casting.

First of all, don't call people idiots. We have rules on forum, I have to follow them or get banned which I also have, so should you.
1) Just because metal is expensive doesn't excuse failcast to be horribly casted. I have no issues with resin replacing metal, I just have issues with TONS OF BADLY CASTED RESINs, see the difference?

2) And then we have the audacity from GW praising it like its the finest silk caressing their butt.

3) Again, you keep defending the quality of failcast due to GW's desperate attempt to switch to the new materials.
And im telling you again, Im not sympathetic about it. why?

a) Resin is not new, GW can should have done their homework to produce presentable product
b) Incompetence is not an excuse.

1: I didn't SAY it excuses the Finecast flaws! I'm simply trying to make people realize that it's something they -had- to di! And yes, CHS and other companies stil make metal models. They're a fraction of the size of GW though, and have to make far fewer models!

2: They're a company. Companies aren't going to say bad things about their own products unless they legally have to (see: pharmaceuticals).

3: That's your decision to be hard-headed, then. I'm defending Finecast as a material, as a business decision, and as a model builder myself. I'm not defending the lack of QC; but the lengths people go to to rail against GW as a whole over their miscasts without looking at the big picture is just...mind-boggling! And of course resin isn't new, but mass-producing it has issues that need to be figured out, and personally I'd take the risk of a miscast and having to convert it (which I'm likely to do anyways) or get it replaced rather than going through another few years of the pain of working with metal models, who's price could soar well beyond Finecast costs because of the state of the economy as a whole.

@ Ouze: People have said themselves, in this very thread, that they've never bought a Finecast model and "never will", yet they seem to feel well-informed enough to come in and talk out their asses.

Kepora wrote:First off: No, you're NOT cute, not with this attitude and just re-using the same "joke"/meme that everyone else on here is using and thinking it makes you cool/witty/whatever, when in allr eality it's just annoying as all hell.

Second off: Um...them being a business is the REASON the stability of the price is good. If the price of metal fluctuates, then the prices of the miniatures would skyrocket far beyond Finecast costs, and even if the prices of metals went down afterwards they'd still need to recover the expenses by trying to sell the rest of the miniatures made in metal, and then subsequent oens would have to be sold at higher prices despite the cheaper metal to make up for ones made with expensive metal that didn't more/are moving slowly. $20-$30 for a single figure is bad enough; imagine logging onto GW's website and seeing a Terminator Librarian for $60 becaus emetal stocks went through the roof.

I'm not defending FInecast's faults; what you idiots who blabber on about "Failcast" and "Failcost" and "Finecrapst" (which is by far the single most idiotic name I've heard since that guy who called his kid Xorion) fail to realize is WHY GW DID IT. The age of metal models is coming to an end because of the global market, the demand for metal in all countries due to unstable times and uncertainty in the big economic players, and miniatures-decidedly a luxury item-are one of the first things being hit. People in here act like it's some grand scheme by GW, but what in the hell makes sense about releasing a faulted product like Finecast after realeasing beautiful lines like the Dark Eldar and Necrons? Simply put: they had to. And yes, the new plastic single figures are neat; the only reason they can recoup the costs for making injection-molded plastic figures like that is to make the figure generic enough to have multiple uses. If they make an HQ character that happens to be very unpopular for whatever reason and doesn't sell, they lose FAR more money on plastic injection molding equipment than resin-casting.

I hate to say it my friend but this whole post is bull scat. The age of metal minatures is just plogging along rather well. Look at some of the stuff comming out by different companys. Elhiem, Peter Pig, Pig Iron, QRF, Liberation, Reaper I can go on and on. The only reasion GW switched to FAILCAST is because they wanted a better profit margion on their figures.

Metal is not dead, the age of metal is carrying on just fine TYVM. I can't remember what company did them but someone did 54mm scale models for ' a song of fire and ice' and the models where just amazing. They where done in metal and have better detail then most resin models I have seen.

Maybe they should of used the Five Million pounds they game out in dividents to hire some QC/QA people instead of linning Mr Kirbys pockets to the tune of 1.2 Million Pounds.

@ TimD. I agree you had a awsome run. I would of loved to get my hands on some of your armour cast stuff. I would love a reaver or a warhound personally and I love the old 2nd edition epic stuff.

Thank you for making those models and trying to expand the GW universe. I am sorry it didn't work out for you. Do you still have the molds for that stuff by anychance? or did GW make you distroy them all when Forgeworld started up?

Kepora wrote:1: I didn't SAY it excuses the Finecast flaws! I'm simply trying to make people realize that it's something they -had- to di! And yes, CHS and other companies stil make metal models. They're a fraction of the size of GW though, and have to make far fewer models!

Making fewer models should make it harder for smaller companies to produce in metal if material cost is actually an issue, since economy of scale means that GW can source their raw materials cheaper.

The thing is, GW have stated in their financials in the past that production costs account for around 2% of the final cost of the miniature. The price of tin has a negligible effect on that. It's a strawman used to excuse price rises, nothing more.

2: They're a company. Companies aren't going to say bad things about their own products unless they legally have to (see: pharmaceuticals).

Or when they find that they product they thought was going to be brilliant is in reality deeply flawed, and they're smart enough to realise that continuing to push it as the best thing since marshmallow and peanut butter is just going to irritate customers who can see for themselves that it's, you know... not.

... but the lengths people go to to rail against GW as a whole over their miscasts without looking at the big picture is just...mind-boggling!

Is it?

Why should GW's customers care about the big picture? We're customers, not shareholders. Company makes product. If we like said product, we buy it. That's as far as the relationship goes.

If that product is not financially viable for the company and they have to change to a different product, the reason for the change is largely irrelevant to the customer. All that matters is whether or not the new product is as good as what it replaces.

And of course resin isn't new, but mass-producing it has issues that need to be figured out,...

So, clearly, the smart thing to do is rush it into production and figure out the issues when people start returning stuff... Nothing says 'Manufacturer of the world's finest gaming miniatures' like staff in the company's own store suggesting that you open the box right there in the store in order to check that the contents are actually going to be in some sort of usable condition...

Pacific wrote:I do wonder why I can still buy a single metal miniature from pretty much any manufacturer at a cheaper price than the new Finecast. And it's not like you can say you're paying for sculpting quality, some of the stuff Corvus Belli are putting out for Infinity at the moment is at least, if not more so, as detailed as anything in the GW range.

Finecast is what convinced me to get into Infinity. I'd been looking at the Infinity minis for a couple of years, thinking, "gods, those are amazing, but you really do pay more for Infinity stuff than for GW stuff." Finecast, suddenly, reversed that -- not only are the Finecast minis more expensive than Infinity ones, they're worse quality by pretty much every metric, too.

FabricatorGeneralMike wrote:

@ TimD. I agree you had a awsome run. I would of loved to get my hands on some of your armour cast stuff. I would love a reaver or a warhound personally and I love the old 2nd edition epic stuff.

Thank you for making those models and trying to expand the GW universe. I am sorry it didn't work out for you. Do you still have the molds for that stuff by anychance? or did GW make you distroy them all when Forgeworld started up?

Thanks FGMike. It was a good run and we had a great time doing it. I have no regrets. We figured that once GW was shown that there was a market for the larger models, the license would not last long. It just happened a little sooner than we expected.

The Armorcast 40K models are still out there if you spend some time looking for them. They show up regularly on ebay as people move on from 40K. There are a bit over 30,000 Armorcast 40K models out in the world, so you should be able to find at least a couple of them...

All of the rubber casting molds were cut up into little pieces and shipped to GWUS.

Tim

If fine cast is so fine, why do we need this http://www.beastsofwar.com/warhammer-40k/fixing-finecast-part-1/

It's actually not that bad, it's mostly mold lines, bent swords a couple of little bubbles. I thought it would be much worse actually.

Bent swords and flash I really don't have an issue with, even the little bubbles on this one are not so bad compared to what I've seen. I'd take this miniature without too much grumbling. He may be a little over critical in this case.

Kepora wrote:

1: I didn't SAY it excuses the Finecast flaws! I'm simply trying to make people realize that it's something they -had- to di! And yes, CHS and other companies stil make metal models. They're a fraction of the size of GW though, and have to make far fewer models!

2: They're a company. Companies aren't going to say bad things about their own products unless they legally have to (see: pharmaceuticals).

3: That's your decision to be hard-headed, then. I'm defending Finecast as a material, as a business decision, and as a model builder myself. I'm not defending the lack of QC; but the lengths people go to to rail against GW as a whole over their miscasts without looking at the big picture is just...mind-boggling! And of course resin isn't new, but mass-producing it has issues that need to be figured out, and personally I'd take the risk of a miscast and having to convert it (which I'm likely to do anyways) or get it replaced rather than going through another few years of the pain of working with metal models, who's price could soar well beyond Finecast costs because of the state of the economy as a whole.

This is what I meant about fine cast problems... its not just product its faulty its also the fact people seem to confuse their place on the " overall picture"

1- They had to do it? They had to make the worst casted models on the market at premium prices? Who pointed a gun to their heads in order for them to go there? I knows CEO margins did XD

2- They are a company? Good now make things for people to use and not things for people to return over and over again... If you haven't something good to say about the fiasco you just would do a favour to your clientele and shut up.

3- Looking at fine cast as a whole? There's not a single mini with no holes man! Serious though... Yeah Im going to support a inferior material for a gaming token just because on the whole it can be best for GW balance? Lol yeah right.

After 4 boxes sent to me and opening another 2 in store. I had my incubi and lhamaen swapped out for a ravager and sslyth in store.

Manager was very apologetic, and shared my dismay with the incubi. the sslyth goes to my girlfrien for conversion fodder ( she loves snakes ) otherwise I wouldn't have been happy with it.

All in all I came away pretty well compensated for the hassle, with approx 4 boxes of incubi in varying states, 4 lhamaen a ravager and sslyth.

Going to try to purchase Isabella today. Given the problems I've seen with casts of her I'm not hopeful. Luckily I work round the corner from the store so it's not really a bother to go in and have a rifle through all the blisters.

Andrew1975 wrote:Ever notice that most of the people on this tread that defend finecast have very few posts in their profile. I smell moles.

Who cares if they have very few posts, what has that got to do with anything? I said I only have 1 finecast model and its great, I didn't say "Finec4st 1s aw3s0me you guy5 ar3 s0 stup1d!!1!"

Jeigh wrote:
Going to try to purchase Isabella today. Given the problems I've seen with casts of her I'm not hopeful. Luckily I work round the corner from the store so it's not really a bother to go in and have a rifle through all the blisters.

All 5 blisters in the store were 2 with missing chins, all but 1 had mangled curls and every single one had bubble problems with her armour tips. How on earth can I actually purchase one of these mythical good casts?

Howard A Treesong wrote:

oni wrote:Just bought and received a box of Space Marine Vanguard Vets... NOT A SINGLE USABLE PART IN THE WHOLE BOX!

Pathetic is too kind a word to describe this box of Vets.

I called customer service and was asked which parts have issues so that he could pull those parts and send them to me.

There was a period of silence when I explained that he'll need to pull every part to every model as nothing is usable.

I was then asked if I had the models in front of me. I called from work and so didn't have them. After explaining this I was asked to call back when I had the models. I'll be calling once I'm home and will post the outcome.

Actually before you start posting stuff off, won't they accept a photograph as proof?

UPDATE:

After calling back and speaking with the same customer service rep. he started by asking me to describe all of the flaws on each model and each part. I was incredibly annoyed by this and immediately exclaimed that I would not do any such thing as it's a complete waste of my time. I could send pictures or return the item if GW sends me a paid return shipping label. He opted to have the item returned and I was emailed a paid shipping label. Once GW received the item he would be in contact to discuss their findings.

His last statement 'contact to discuss their findings' was a bit odd and having never been asked to return an item... I asked if the 'no questions asked' return policy for Failcast has changed? His reply was such that "Finecast no longer has issues", it was only the first batch and most of those casts have been reclaimed by GW. Failcast returns are now being screened so to speak. GW's intent is to have the customer service reps. make the determination if the model / bit needs replaced.

This of course put me into a frenzied rage as it is not GW's position to tell me whether or not their product is acceptable to ME. I ALONE MAKE THAT DETERMINATION!

I told the customer service rep. that I expect nothing less than perfection (i was exaggerating to express the severity of my displeasure) and should my replacements still not meet MY quality standards, I will be calling back for further replacements and the call will not pleasurable for any party.

Glad to know that "Finecast no longer has issues" That first batch was really annoying and long it even included the new necron releases

Sorry to hear that Oni, sounds like that GW rep is pushing his luck a little there.

"No Longer has Issues"

FINECAST NO LONGER HAS ISSUES!!?


GW dare lie, they've taken the biscuit, dipped it in the tea, bitten it, and put it back in the biscuit tin with this piss poor example of fraudulent lies. They are dragging their company into a furnace with their decisions, its ridiculous how they can shrug of the obvious mistakes of Finecast.

This seems very hit and miss with customer service.

I called 3 weeks ago about a Necron Cryptek spear having a huge bubble on it as well as a broken piece from my Annihilation barge out of the box.

The rep sent me just a spear and the broken piece in a bubble wrap envelope sent 1st class mail with a written address on it.

2 weeks ago I called about fine-cast miscast on 3 Necron Character models: Trazyn (micro bubbles all over his main body), Overlord (right shoulder had such a big bubble inside the cast it was transparent) and C'tan Deciever (left knee what just one big cavity).

Rep was very helpful, I offered to give him the batch numbers, he said no need, and 5 days later UPS had delivered brand new whole model kits to me. I wasnt expecting new kits at all due to the previous experience.

I didnt get any of the lip-service about how Fine-cast has no more issues and it was only the first run that had problems.

GW doesnt seem to have a straight method for how customers are handled or even how they replace flawed models. Seem unorganized for a larger company.

Mold lines are irrelevant. Plastic has mold lines. GW metal models have always had mold lines and flash. Bent bits are really irrelevant. Forge World pretty much has made bent resin a product feature anymore and I've had metal kits that are so warped that GW had to send a replacement out. The problem with finecast is the omnipresent air bubbles that obliterate bits of detail. This is why I won't order any finecast off the internet or via GW online (except via the Battle Bunker). I need to inspect the model carefully and then buy. That way if the problems are more than I am willing to deal with (a very low bar to cross) then I can get it fixed right away.

What bothers me most about finecast isn't that GW is failing to fix the problems in their production. It's that their competitors and ever recasters don't seem to have this problem in the first place.