Switch Theme:

Warhammer - The Old World news and rumors  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Blood-Raging Khorne Berserker




Dallas, Tx

 Overread wrote:
Oh I just remembered you can take hedge wizards in Bretonnia!


Sorry not being a Bretonnia player, what is a hedge wizard. First time I’ve ever seen that phrase.

ToW armies I own:
Empire: 10,000+
Chaos Legions: DoC- 10,000+; WoC- 7,500+; Beastmen- 2,500+; Chaos Dwarves- 3,500+
Unaligned: Ogres- 2,500; Tomb Kings- 3,000
Hotek: Dark Elves- 7,500+; High Elves- 2,500
40k armies I own:
CSM- 25,000+  
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

 nathan2004 wrote:
 Overread wrote:
Oh I just remembered you can take hedge wizards in Bretonnia!


Sorry not being a Bretonnia player, what is a hedge wizard. First time I’ve ever seen that phrase.


Basically they are Wizards who train outside of the formal institutions of magic https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Hedge_Wizard

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in us
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

 nathan2004 wrote:
 Overread wrote:
Oh I just remembered you can take hedge wizards in Bretonnia!


Sorry not being a Bretonnia player, what is a hedge wizard. First time I’ve ever seen that phrase.


Lore wise - self taught natural caster - usually bad things happen to them before they can become powerful

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in us
Blood-Raging Khorne Berserker




Dallas, Tx

Thank you both. I just went down the rabbit hole with that and find it fascinating.

Does it feel like empire is getting more love than the rest of the armies? Are they trying to sell them as the ultramarines of Old World yall think? It does feel like they can do everything but aren’t terribly good at any one specific thing.

ToW armies I own:
Empire: 10,000+
Chaos Legions: DoC- 10,000+; WoC- 7,500+; Beastmen- 2,500+; Chaos Dwarves- 3,500+
Unaligned: Ogres- 2,500; Tomb Kings- 3,000
Hotek: Dark Elves- 7,500+; High Elves- 2,500
40k armies I own:
CSM- 25,000+  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Yeah, definitely a passable bright wizard
[Thumb - IMG_5113.jpeg]

   
Made in us
Mysterious Techpriest







I haven't been able to dig very far into The Old World... do the Brets still have my favorite annoying model: The Green Knight?

 BorderCountess wrote:
Just because you're doing something right doesn't necessarily mean you know what you're doing...
 Ahtman wrote:
Lathe Biosas is Dakka's Armond White.
SamusDrake wrote:
If unpainted models are good enough for Zeus, then they're good enough for me.
 
   
Made in ca
Heroic Senior Officer





Krieg! What a hole...

 nathan2004 wrote:
Thank you both. I just went down the rabbit hole with that and find it fascinating.

Does it feel like empire is getting more love than the rest of the armies? Are they trying to sell them as the ultramarines of Old World yall think? It does feel like they can do everything but aren’t terribly good at any one specific thing.


I am pretty sure that was the Empire's whole schtick, from my understanding, it was always the Jack of All Trades faction. It's also generally one of the most flagship faction, though not to the extent of the Ultra's in 40k (Let alone the Space Marines in general)

Member of 40k Montreal There is only war in Montreal
Primarchs are a mistake
DKoK Blog:http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/419263.page Have a look, I guarantee you will not see greyer armies, EVER! Now with at least 4 shades of grey

Savageconvoy wrote:
Snookie gives birth to Heavy Gun drone squad. Someone says they are overpowered. World ends.

 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

nathan2004 wrote:Thank you both. I just went down the rabbit hole with that and find it fascinating.

Does it feel like empire is getting more love than the rest of the armies? Are they trying to sell them as the ultramarines of Old World yall think? It does feel like they can do everything but aren’t terribly good at any one specific thing.


Historically Old World never really had a single faction as the "face" of the brand. It would shift around each edition whoever was in the starter set. Eg one of the last and popular was Skaven VS High Elves. As for what they are getting, I think its hit and miss. I don't think they are any more popular and other factions have had new models and such as well. IT might be that it doing well we might see a few more new things appearing and getting pushed into the latter armies as updated/new models here and there.

Lathe Biosas wrote:I haven't been able to dig very far into The Old World... do the Brets still have my favorite annoying model: The Green Knight?


Yes Green Knight is still in the army

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in ca
Nimble Skeleton Charioteer





Canada

Not sold over by those wizards myself. They look fine but I have enough wizard already that none of them jump at me as "must" have! Especially the battle wizard guy with his bland white/light blue colour (never really work for GW studio, looking at you Leontus). Plus they'll be FW resin so I expect them to be pricy.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/12/09 20:40:40


Fantasy armies - Retired (Tomb Kings, Vampires, Empire, Chaos Warriors/Daemons, Dark Elves)

Tyranids army - Ever evolving, but about 10k pts
Custodes - 3,500pts (Fully painted yay!)
Thousand Sons - 4,000 pts
Eldar - 3,000pts 
   
Made in us
Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard






 Bobthehero wrote:
 nathan2004 wrote:
Thank you both. I just went down the rabbit hole with that and find it fascinating.

Does it feel like empire is getting more love than the rest of the armies? Are they trying to sell them as the ultramarines of Old World yall think? It does feel like they can do everything but aren’t terribly good at any one specific thing.


I am pretty sure that was the Empire's whole schtick, from my understanding, it was always the Jack of All Trades faction. It's also generally one of the most flagship faction, though not to the extent of the Ultra's in 40k (Let alone the Space Marines in general)


I always got the impression that The Empire was set up as the focus of the game and the setting, with lots of books and the RPG having heavy focus on the Empire. No other faction has as rich lore in how the different counties function and history. An insight in daily life, commerce, internal conflict and political games unparalelled in the setting. But just the same, as a playable faction in Fantasy Battle, a rather dull and unpopular army that lacked the high fantasy monsters and sense of awe the other factions had.

Trolls n Robots, battle reports på svenska https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbeiubugFqIO9IWf_FV9q7A 
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran






Maple Valley, Washington, Holy Terra

 nathan2004 wrote:
Thank you both. I just went down the rabbit hole with that and find it fascinating.

Does it feel like empire is getting more love than the rest of the armies? Are they trying to sell them as the ultramarines of Old World yall think? It does feel like they can do everything but aren’t terribly good at any one specific thing.


They're kind of the "Imperium" of The Old World, in that they're the main "point of view" faction of the setting. Gameplay-wise, they tend to be better at shooting and artillery than close combat, but they have a large, flexible army list (or at least, they did when I played WHFB back during 6th-7th edition; I assume it's much the same now).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/12/09 21:28:37


"Calgar hates Tyranids."

Your #1 Fan  
   
Made in no
Longtime Dakkanaut






These all look "fine". But there's nothing here that stands out from the thousand plus other wizard models out there. Especially not for FW resin prices.
   
Made in ca
Knight of the Inner Circle




Montreal, QC Canada

I really do like that Necromancer and might just get it. Like a lot of you though, I have a pile of Wizards...like, 8 of them. I don't really need a new one.

Commodus Leitdorf Paints all of the Things!!
The Breaking of the Averholme: An AoS Adventure
"We have clearly reached the point where only rampant and unchecked stabbing can save us." -Black Mage 
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






 nathan2004 wrote:
Thank you both. I just went down the rabbit hole with that and find it fascinating.

Does it feel like empire is getting more love than the rest of the armies? Are they trying to sell them as the ultramarines of Old World yall think? It does feel like they can do everything but aren’t terribly good at any one specific thing.


At this point in the history of The Empire, it’s comprised of at least three, competing, factions.

It’s also traditionally had a decent array of units.

Also, as they still haven’t had new Knights? No

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Hey look! It’s my 2025 Hobby Log/Blog/Project/Whatevs 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Not forgetting that historically forces like Kisleve have "jumped" in and out of Empire in being subfactions of the army to being an army in their own right (pretty sure for at least one edition they had their own battletome or expansion tome)

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Overread wrote:
Not forgetting that historically forces like Kisleve have "jumped" in and out of Empire in being subfactions of the army to being an army in their own right (pretty sure for at least one edition they had their own battletome or expansion tome)


Kislev had a WD army list and miniatures release during 6th. I imagine partly because 6th ran for the longest of all editions at ~6 years (just as 3rd ed 40k ran a long time - LotR took up a lot of resources during that time) so 6th also had the most rules updates, tweaks and unit additions of any WFB edition, without changing edition.

It's probably why 6th has such a strong image in my mind, it was continuously supported and developed during its run because they couldn't commit to an edition cycle. The irony is that it felt more alive and dynamic having it as a living rulebook through WD than their endless edition churn strategy.

   
Made in gb
Sadistic Inquisitorial Excruciator





Exeter, UK

 Dryaktylus wrote:
 Shakalooloo wrote:
Anyone walking around with a scythe and a skeletal sidekick is just begging to be burned as a necromancer in this era.


Why? You could always say you're a shaman or a priest of Morr, Sure, some people would burn you, others won't. And the Witch-hunters got their licence to torture/burn/kill everyone outside the Colleges of Magic from Magnus the Pious.


Ambulatory three-foot tall skeletons tend to freak out the normies. And the article itself says "In the Reikland, seat of the Cult of Sigmar, magic is almost universally outlawed and its practitioners are often burnt at the stake as witches. "

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/12/10 00:00:06


 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

True, but these are models for the battlefield. Where the wizards are specifically encouraged to use their powers. So it makes sense that they'd be throwing fireballs and summoning aids and doing all the things that otherwise might get them burned at the stake.

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba




The Great State of New Jersey

Technically Bretonnia has Outcast Wizards rather than Hedge Wizards, minor distinction there.

Empire is the POV faction, theyre meant to be the "baseline" human faction through which the world becomes relatable (Brets are either inbred peasant serfs or souped up folk-saints, not as relatable and subject to cultural and societal norms which are meant to alienate fans in a way that makes you view them as "other").

In terms of the brand "face" though, that role was largely filled by warriors of chaos who were highly iconic, extremely popular (regukarly the top selling faction), and featured heavily in marketing materials.

CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
 
   
Made in us
Blood-Raging Khorne Berserker




Dallas, Tx

I know you said minor distinction but weren’t they both expelled by the colleges of magic. So doesn’t that make them the same? Or did I miss something in the lore? Well clearly I did, what more did I miss lol.

ToW armies I own:
Empire: 10,000+
Chaos Legions: DoC- 10,000+; WoC- 7,500+; Beastmen- 2,500+; Chaos Dwarves- 3,500+
Unaligned: Ogres- 2,500; Tomb Kings- 3,000
Hotek: Dark Elves- 7,500+; High Elves- 2,500
40k armies I own:
CSM- 25,000+  
   
Made in in
[MOD]
Otiose in a Niche






Hyderabad, India

 nathan2004 wrote:
I know you said minor distinction but weren’t they both expelled by the colleges of magic. So doesn’t that make them the same? Or did I miss something in the lore? Well clearly I did, what more did I miss lol.


For what it's worth I know I've seen Hedge Wizard/Hedge Witch before.

Poking around it looks like an adaptation of a Hedge Priest, an ignorant unordained self-taught priest who practices under a hedge rather than a church.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hedge_priest
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hedge-priest#:~:text=noun,an%20itinerant%20usually%20uneducated%20priest
https://www.shakespeareswords.com/Public/Glossary.aspx?id=18767

With hedge alehouse being a similar idea.


 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





 nathan2004 wrote:
I know you said minor distinction but weren’t they both expelled by the colleges of magic. So doesn’t that make them the same? Or did I miss something in the lore? Well clearly I did, what more did I miss lol.


At this point, the Colleges of Magic don't exist so there's nothing to get expelled from (and magic in the Empire is nominally illegal/heresy, though it sounds like that's only really enforced in the regions with a strong influence from the Sigmarite Church).

As to the distinction; Hedge Wizard in fantasy typically refers to a magical practitioner with a grass-roots style emphasis and no recognized formal training etc. Generally not very powerful or with lowkey spells. The local soothsayer or village wise woman or a wandering conjurer. It's not a prescriptive term but more conveys an idea of social status and a more organic, even self-taught adoption of magic.

Outcast implies that those Wizards are outright renegades or exiles and potentially have a higher degree of power/training (though obviously without the Colleges during this era, what that training would consist of is more nebulous). Should be noted that they're only available as part of the Bretonnian Exiles army list from their Arcane Journal, which only allows for a single Damsel, so they're not a part of the core Bretonnian roster.

It is a distinction, albeit there could be a degree of overlap.
   
Made in au
Noise Marine Terminator with Sonic Blaster





Melbourne

Pretty sure the term "Hedge Wizard" features in the original 4th edition text for the Great War Against Chaos, when it tells the part about Teclis rolling up to the Empire with Finreir and Yrtle, and start training human magic users.

Ex-Mantic Rules Committees: Kings of War, Warpath
"The Emperor is obviously not a dictator, he's a couch."
Starbuck: "Why can't we use the starboard launch bays?"
Engineer: "Because it's a gift shop!" 
   
Made in gb
Drafted Man-at-Arms




Somewhere, UK

I fully admit to being biased as a fan of Bretonnia, but I always wondered why Bretonnian knights weren't the "Space Marines" of WFB.

You could have numerous armies themed to different dukedoms, crusades, exiles, etc. A feathery, pegasus themed Parravon army. A dark, bloody army based around Mousillon. Good knights and corrupted knights.

GW could potentially sell hundreds of different shields, helmets, pauldrons and other accessories. The only stumbling block I can see to them truly being "Space Marines" is Bretonnia's lack of ranged weapons and war machines.
   
Made in au
Liche Priest Hierophant







 Return_to_Bretonnia wrote:
I fully admit to being biased as a fan of Bretonnia, but I always wondered why Bretonnian knights weren't the "Space Marines" of WFB.

You could have numerous armies themed to different dukedoms, crusades, exiles, etc. A feathery, pegasus themed Parravon army. A dark, bloody army based around Mousillon. Good knights and corrupted knights.

GW could potentially sell hundreds of different shields, helmets, pauldrons and other accessories. The only stumbling block I can see to them truly being "Space Marines" is Bretonnia's lack of ranged weapons and war machines.

I'm not sure the folk from Nottingham could live with themselves if they intentionally made French nobility the sole star of the game
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






Bretonnia, as it is now, is also something of a Johnny Come Lately to WHFB.

It did exist in the earlier editions, but more as a straight Medieval Knights Faction.

It wasn’t until…..5th? (Might be 6th, memory is old and hazy) that the more mystic elements came to be. And for the most part, the models lacked the trappings of Fantasy.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Hey look! It’s my 2025 Hobby Log/Blog/Project/Whatevs 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

As I recall it started as the "these two sculpting brothers want to do medieval french - let them do it cause otherwise they aren't happy and we gotta keep them happy" project.

Got to say I read the old books on Bretonnia and the new one they published and honestly I really liked the tone of the new one a lot more. The early ones leaned a lot into how the nobility were really horrible to their serfs and underlings; meanwhile the new one retains that in a slightly more restricted sense (they are still lesser than you of course!) and focuses much more on the "horse lords" aspect which I actually felt was rather missing in the early books where the cavalry element was sort of there but in the background.

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Eh...

A few people down the decades have pushed the "why aren't Brets the face of the setting".

I feel the rub is partly that yes, GW didn't really try - but also as a faction its kind of limited. Do you like quasi-French Knights yes/no? (The fact they never really tried undermines the claim of "they were never that popular", because popularity is generally a function of GW marketing budget - but still.)

I mean if you like humans (...) then the Empire is right there - even if you want to focus heavily on knights.

If you were even more ruthless, if you like "cavalry" - then there's plenty of other factions in Fantasy that can kind of fill in for that. Chaos, all the elves, VCs if skele horses don't bother you, Orcs and Goblins if you don't care about horses at all etc etc.

I'm not sure Marines are quite the same. Sure if you split all the subfactions out, you get a lot of power armour. But its not as universal to almost every faction in 40k. But then maybe that's my own bias towards the Xenos factions that provide the light and shade.
   
Made in us
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

 Overread wrote:
As I recall it started as the "these two sculpting brothers want to do medieval french - let them do it cause otherwise they aren't happy and we gotta keep them happy" project.

Got to say I read the old books on Bretonnia and the new one they published and honestly I really liked the tone of the new one a lot more. The early ones leaned a lot into how the nobility were really horrible to their serfs and underlings; meanwhile the new one retains that in a slightly more restricted sense (they are still lesser than you of course!) and focuses much more on the "horse lords" aspect which I actually felt was rather missing in the early books where the cavalry element was sort of there but in the background.


The original Bretonnian nobility were much more corrupt - closer to pre revolutionary France than the Arthurian style that they became in late 3rd/4th - then they became ultra grim dark /parody (Holy Grail - still seen in Total War) and it seems now going back to a middle place..


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Bretonnia, as it is now, is also something of a Johnny Come Lately to WHFB.

It did exist in the earlier editions, but more as a straight Medieval Knights Faction.

It wasn’t until…..5th? (Might be 6th, memory is old and hazy) that the more mystic elements came to be. And for the most part, the models lacked the trappings of Fantasy.


3rd was historical knights plus support troops - 4th is Arthurian style fantasy

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2024/12/10 12:59:30


I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






4th was High Elf and Goblins, with cardboard standees?

If so, it was defo 5th that the refreshed Bretonnians arrived, as they didn’t get a 4th Ed Army book, but were in the 5th Ed boxed set along with Lizardmen?

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Hey look! It’s my 2025 Hobby Log/Blog/Project/Whatevs 
   
 
Forum Index » News & Rumors
Go to: