Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Here's an interesting little trick I pulled in my 3rd (of 3) casual victory so far at 1000. I ended up with both a Tyrant and a Zoanthrope with Catalyst. We were playing The Relic and I was up against Eldar, with an emphasis on a couple of big Guardian squads and led by Asurmen (who is hilariously tough when he has a 2+rerollable /4+ by the way!). I ended up moving in to force target priority with my Hormagaunts (two broods of twelve), putting them in rubble cover and then giving them FNP. They took an absolutely absurd amount of shots to put down. Seems like putting Catalyst on your big bugs always looks like the way to go but sometimes you need it on your gribblies. On the other hand, I completely forgot about Catalyst the turn before my two Stranglefex, each down a wound, got annihilated by a squad of Fire Dragons (six hits, six wounds, done!). Great game though.

Just had a 1750 game. I was trying out the new Deathleaper formation.

My list wasn't really great, but it was just a few things I wanted to try out.


2x Dakka Flyrants (1 w/Psychic Scream, no Catalysts)

1x Venom
1x Zoan

4x10 Termagants

9x Raveners - Rending Claws
The Red Terror

1x Biovre
1x Mawloc

Bastion

Deathleaper Assassin formation (the one with -1 LD with12" of the brood):

Deathleaper

5x1 Lictors


My opponent brought IG:

CCS - Plasma, Chimera

PCS
3x Infantry squads
3x Special Weapon squads w/3x flamers each

PCS w/Al 'Rahem, plasmas
2x Infantry squads

3x Vendettas (separate, SWS flamer squad in each)

1x Leman Russ Demolisher
2x Leman Russ Executioners


It was Purge the Alien (Primary, 4-pts) and the Scouring (Secondary, 3-pts). Tyranids went 1st.

Some highlights of the game:

Deathleaper and lictors killed a few infantry squads to net me a few VP's. However, I did lose 4 out of 5 lictors to give up 4 VP's. Deathleaper survived. The -1 LD was helpful, especially when used in conjunction with Psychic Scream from my flyrant.

I couldn't take down any of his vendettas. Flyrant should have shot down 1 from the rear but he made something like 3-4 jink saves to survive. Warp Lance from my zoan was a bust. It failed to glance the demolisher once, got denied by a vendetta the 2nd time and then rolled a 1 to pen on my 3rd attempt against a vendetta.

Both flyrants went down as expected. However, he was so focused on my flyrants that he basically ignored my raveners. At least each flyrant killed at least 1 tank - the demolishe and 1 executioner.

Raveners were definitely the MVP of the game. They basically swept through his who army, killing 1 executioner, chimera, his Warlord's unit and a bunch of infantry. They probably netted me 6-7 VP's just by themselves. They lived because my opponent was just too focused on my flyrants. These guys are really good if you build your list properly.

I ended up losing the Secondary, the Scouring, by only 1 point. If only I had killed 1 vendetta, the Scouring would have been tied. If only my mawloc hadn't scattered on Turn 5, I would have denied the objective and won the Scouring. However, I still had a chance to win the Scouring despite him scattering. I only needed a 2" run from him....and then I roll a for his run move.

I did, however, take the Primary, Purge the Alien. Along with First Blood, I ended up winning a close battle 7-5.

I will continue to try out the formations in the future.

Good post JY2

I'm very excited about the potential the Deathleaper dataslate brings.

I could see and MSUish list with tons of solo Lictors, DL, maybe biovores, etc being a pretty interesting list.

Yep. i just put together a list with the dataslate as well and had a test game. I'm becoming fond of those lictors as well. I have yet to use raveners in the new codex. i've been using Shrikes instead. They seem to perform a similar function though. A win is a win though. I think you play so well that it becomes difficult for me to evaluate performance based on your batreps. You have so much experrience that you pull wins out of the hat that I know i woul not.

I'm actually really proud of the raveners. Did Red Terror make a difference? Also did he eat anyone? Because that's all we Nid players really care about, who got eaten.

The RT adds a whole new dimension to Raveners.

Gatekeeper wrote:
I'm actually really proud of the raveners. Did Red Terror make a difference? Also did he eat anyone? Because that's all we Nid players really care about, who got eaten.

Lol. No, he didn't. I really didn't need him to eat anyone because units of IG infantry just evaporated on contact with the raveners. I did put him in front to tank vendetta lascannon shots. However, my opponent was just too busy trying to shoot down my flyrants with them (and the bastion as well!). It's also discouraging for my opponent to shoot at them when I can string them along to be within 6" of my venomthrope for 3+ cover in area terrain.

I think the Terror would work better against a more elite army - ones with more expensive characters. This battle truly didn't fully utilize his capabilities.

But these guys were clearing infantry off objectives like a hot knife through butter and because of their rather large foot-print, it's easy to pull off the multi-assault with them. Lol.

Gatekeeper wrote:
I'm actually really proud of the raveners. Did Red Terror make a difference? Also did he eat anyone? Because that's all we Nid players really care about, who got eaten.

I brushed over him at first, but he's much better than I initially saw. In a big pack of fast wounds, he can get up the field fast and then protect the squad from your choice of beatstick character. Plus, the very threat means NO ONE will accept his challenge unless they're CSM.

Just had a great game against Tau, it was a pretty decisive victory. However, I'd like to point out A)I stole the initiative B) He wasnt running a competitive list C) All of my reserves came in on turn two.

Two flyrants, each with Devourer and HVC
3 Warriors
16 Gaunts
Venomthrope
2 Crones
20 Gargoyles
3 carnifex each with HVC and Devourer
Trygon Prime w/Reaper
Mawloc

He had six crisis suits, two hammerheads, a riptide, large pathfinders, 3 piranhas, a sunshark, 2 large firewarrior squads, missileside, lots of drones about.

I learned that having 5 venom cannons against Crisis suits is awesome, I insta-gibbed a lot of them. My weak troop list (dont own enough warriors yet) was scary but they held out against deep striking Crisis and outflanking Kroot to keep my Emperors Will objective.

Good moments: Crone came in and flame templated 7 kroot off the board

Flyrant Warlord caused a Firewarrior squad to flee turn 1, giving up first blood

Mawloc popped two Crisis and the Missile side with drones, and mishaped out of harms way.

Bad: Warriors died and Carnifex brood spent a turn eating itself. No wounds caused but highly irritating to have an entire unit just sit there slapping itself.

I'm almost happy with my 2k list. I think Trygon will stop being a Prime, there will be outflanking Warriors, and maybe thats all I will change.

 Iechine wrote:
Just had a great game against Tau, it was a pretty decisive victory. However, I'd like to point out A)I stole the initiative B) He wasnt running a competitive list C) All of my reserves came in on turn two.

Two flyrants, each with Devourer and HVC
3 Warriors
16 Gaunts
Venomthrope
2 Crones
20 Gargoyles
3 carnifex each with HVC and Devourer
Trygon Prime w/Reaper
Mawloc

He had six crisis suits, two hammerheads, a riptide, large pathfinders, 3 piranhas, a sunshark, 2 large firewarrior squads, missileside, lots of drones about.

I learned that having 5 venom cannons against Crisis suits is awesome, I insta-gibbed a lot of them. My weak troop list (dont own enough warriors yet) was scary but they held out against deep striking Crisis and outflanking Kroot to keep my Emperors Will objective.

Good moments: Crone came in and flame templated 7 kroot off the board

Flyrant Warlord caused a Firewarrior squad to flee turn 1, giving up first blood

Mawloc popped two Crisis and the Missile side with drones, and mishaped out of harms way.

Bad: Warriors died and Carnifex brood spent a turn eating itself. No wounds caused but highly irritating to have an entire unit just sit there slapping itself.

I'm almost happy with my 2k list. I think Trygon will stop being a Prime, there will be outflanking Warriors, and maybe thats all I will change.

How have those HVC been serving you?

I'm going to buy three Carnifex in the not too distant future, and am torn between two sets of Devourers, and one set of Devourers and an HVC, and am looking for feedback on firing off three HVC from the same unit. It sounds effective, and like a reasonably way of stripping hull points...

is there any reason why you wouldn't take two HVCs on each carnie?

Carnelian wrote:
is there any reason why you wouldn't take two HVCs on each carnie?

Per codex, only one HVC can be taken per carnifex.

Which is a raw deal. In the b-grade movie way, not in the acronym way.

oh yeah forgot to look at the bottom of the page

thats a shame

To answer the question, I'm really liking 3xHVC in the carnifexes plus the two from Tyrants in a TAC list. Obviously Stranglethorn would be cool for some armies,but two get turn 1 shooting of the vehicle killing kind on the units that HAVE to foot slog, I'm digging it. Plus its AP4 on infantry and still 18 devourer shots once they get in range. I feel like I get way more bang for my buck this way.

I'm with lechine on the HVCs. Being able to ID T4, along with the ranged threat starting turn 1 make HVCs worthwhile choices. They pair well with onslaught on carnifexes too.

On HVCs: I'd rather deal no damage turn 1 and have fantastic damage output turn 2 than mediocre damage output turn 1 and decent damage output turn 2.

^ If all Carnifex are still alive, and if the opponent doesnt just move out of range.

Maybe there's no right answer when it comes to what ranged weapons to give Carnifexes. Maybe... I know it's a weird thought, but maybe GW got the balance right. It might just have been by accident.

My own inclination is Brainleech Devourers all the way. If out of range, run. But I can absolutely see a case for Devourers/Stranglethorn, or Devourers/Venom, depending on the threats you anticipate, and what else you have to deal with them.

Nothing dissuades an eldar spammer from discharging his broken serpent shields like the threat of multiple s9 shooting attacks.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
On HVCs: I'd rather deal no damage turn 1 and have fantastic damage output turn 2 than mediocre damage output turn 1 and decent damage output turn 2.

Agreed. This is my preference as well.


This is how I see the two. When you take 2x TL-D's for your fexes, you move/run 1 turn and then you will most likely be in range to shoot on T2. Now you have higher output because you put out 12 shots per fex.

With the HVC/stranglethorn, you move up slowly and then you shoot. You do have the potential to kill a vehicle on T1, but overall, your damage output would generally be lower on T2 and onwards.

However, here's the difference. Let's say you go up against Tau. With the HVC/Strangler loadout, you fire on T1, say, 3 pie plates. Your opponent then ignores your fexes for a turn because they are so slow and fire at the rest of your army. You then move up again and fire. Now your opponent gets 2 turns to fire at your army. Basically what happens is that you end up attacking in waves (unless you have Onslaught in your army). Because the fexes are moving only 6" per tun, Tau can ignore them for 2 or even 3 turns to focus down on your other threats. The Tau loves armies that attack in waves as it gives them more time to shoot down the enemy. The damage output of 3 pie plates is nothing against them, at least not compared to how much firepower they can throw down your way.

However, with the dakkafexes, you run on T1 and on T2, you could potentially move forwards 18". Not only is your firepower much greater once you get into range, but now you are an assault threat that your Tau opponent just cannot ignore. Now they've got to deal with your flyrants, dakkafexes and whatever else fast threats are at their doorsteps. This type of build works better IMO because now you are able to overload your opponent with almost your entire army all at once. So you sacrifice 1st turn firepower for better positioning with the dakkafexes and also better long-term shooting as well.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Nothing dissuades an eldar spammer from discharging his broken serpent shields like the threat of multiple s9 shooting attacks.

As a mechdar player myself, I'm not dissuaded one bit. Actually, I laugh at a paltry 3 S9 blast, especially since with Holo-fields, I am most likely getting 4+ cover. And if bugs are going first, then those S9 shots can only glance as I haven't used my serpent shield yet.

I'm more happy that you're walking your fexes and firing those blasts. That just gives me a little extra breathing room to kill the more immediate threats and to deal with the slower fexes later.

Just curious here. Riptides are a pain for Nids to deal with. Has anyone used pinning tests (horror on broodlords) with the deathleaper assassin squad to try and pull this off? I know the -1 does not stack. Is it just too unlikely to succeed? It would be LD 8 for the test. I also need to remember to position myself to fire off my flesh hooks more effectively next game. Five Lictors and Deathleaper actually have a nice number of S8 shots and you can DS them accurately as well.

Just ran a list tonight with a ton of strangle fexes and barbed stranglers...it feels nice to out range the bulk of tau.

I went second and didn't lose a model turn one...my own "alpha strike" was quite devastating to tau infantry...and as tau have so few scoring units in most lists...I was just able to stay put on my side of the board for the remainder of the game.

If I had been running Devourers...my fexes would have run head first into broadside/riptide fire with ought getting a chance to nuke fire warriors and kroot.

I really hate not running a second gun on the fex, but I find those points are often wasted...versus centurions who also had to walk to me...I was wishing my fexes were just adrenal/strangle.

As for venoms...I run two...and the are without a doubt the most worthwhile 90 points I have ever spent on anything in this game.

I don't know about anyone else...but I love our psychic table...I always get excited no matter what I roll.

JY2...would you recommend combat shrikes? And if so...would you just leave it at rending? (I just found 18 unbuilt warriors in my sprues box)

 jy2 wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
On HVCs: I'd rather deal no damage turn 1 and have fantastic damage output turn 2 than mediocre damage output turn 1 and decent damage output turn 2.

Agreed. This is my preference as well.


This is how I see the two. When you take 2x TL-D's for your fexes, you move/run 1 turn and then you will most likely be in range to shoot on T2. Now you have higher output because you put out 12 shots per fex.

With the HVC/stranglethorn, you move up slowly and then you shoot. You do have the potential to kill a vehicle on T1, but overall, your damage output would generally be lower on T2 and onwards.

However, here's the difference. Let's say you go up against Tau. With the HVC/Strangler loadout, you fire on T1, say, 3 pie plates. Your opponent then ignores your fexes for a turn because they are so slow and fire at the rest of your army. You then move up again and fire. Now your opponent gets 2 turns to fire at your army. Basically what happens is that you end up attacking in waves (unless you have Onslaught in your army). Because the fexes are moving only 6" per tun, Tau can ignore them for 2 or even 3 turns to focus down on your other threats. The Tau loves armies that attack in waves as it gives them more time to shoot down the enemy. The damage output of 3 pie plates is nothing against them, at least not compared to how much firepower they can throw down your way.

However, with the dakkafexes, you run on T1 and on T2, you could potentially move forwards 18". Not only is your firepower much greater once you get into range, but now you are an assault threat that your Tau opponent just cannot ignore. Now they've got to deal with your flyrants, dakkafexes and whatever else fast threats are at their doorsteps. This type of build works better IMO because now you are able to overload your opponent with almost your entire army all at once. So you sacrifice 1st turn firepower for better positioning with the dakkafexes and also better long-term shooting as well.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Nothing dissuades an eldar spammer from discharging his broken serpent shields like the threat of multiple s9 shooting attacks.

As a mechdar player myself, I'm not dissuaded one bit. Actually, I laugh at a paltry 3 S9 blast, especially since with Holo-fields, I am most likely getting 4+ cover. And if bugs are going first, then those S9 shots can only glance as I haven't used my serpent shield yet.

I'm more happy that you're walking your fexes and firing those blasts. That just gives me a little extra breathing room to kill the more immediate threats and to deal with the slower fexes later.

I'm wondering what your thoughts are on an army that may not need to close - a shooty Tyranid list, if you like. The bugs are definitely easy to take apart in waves, but what if they don't care to get in close?

I've had good luck with this theory, but I'm not in a terribly competitive environment. I like to see Tyranids as a blast/large blast/template spam army, which can hold itself in CC against almost anything, and with that in mind I prefer to avoid closing (!).

Granted, it is not competitive against flyer spam, and those jink saves of yours would be frustrating , but if you think about it... taking as many of these types of guns possible (7-9 stranglethorn cannons, a few harpies with twin-linked HVCs) might be very viable especially if you surprise your opponents with the gunline tactic. By the time they realize they need to come to you, it could well be too late.

What do you guys think?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ductvader wrote:
Just ran a list tonight with a ton of strangle fexes and barbed stranglers...it feels nice to out range the bulk of tau.

I went second and didn't lose a model turn one...my own "alpha strike" was quite devastating to tau infantry...and as tau have so few scoring units in most lists...I was just able to stay put on my side of the board for the remainder of the game.

If I had been running Devourers...my fexes would have run head first into broadside/riptide fire with ought getting a chance to nuke fire warriors and kroot.

I really hate not running a second gun on the fex, but I find those points are often wasted...versus centurions who also had to walk to me...I was wishing my fexes were just adrenal/strangle.

As for venoms...I run two...and the are without a doubt the most worthwhile 90 points I have ever spent on anything in this game.

I don't know about anyone else...but I love our psychic table...I always get excited no matter what I roll.

JY2...would you recommend combat shrikes? And if so...would you just leave it at rending? (I just found 18 unbuilt warriors in my sprues box)

This is what I'm talking about! It really seems to work well.

I dunno about jy2, but in my experience Tyranids don't have the sort of long ranged damage output to rely on gunline tactics. I see the strength of codex lying in mid/close-ranged shooting then assault. Long ranged units have their place as support, but I wouldn't make it the main focus of a list.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
I dunno about jy2, but in my experience Tyranids don't have the sort of long ranged damage output to rely on gunline tactics. I see the strength of codex lying in mid/close-ranged shooting then assault. Long ranged units have their place as support, but I wouldn't make it the main focus of a list.

It's not really about gun line tactics...it's more about making the enemy come to you on your terms or at the very least with a mitigated force so that you mid/long range shooting and assault goes off at greater effect...strangle flexes for me have meant the gun line armies (or anything with plasma) has to come into your danger zone.

 ductvader wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
I dunno about jy2, but in my experience Tyranids don't have the sort of long ranged damage output to rely on gunline tactics. I see the strength of codex lying in mid/close-ranged shooting then assault. Long ranged units have their place as support, but I wouldn't make it the main focus of a list.

It's not really about gun line tactics...it's more about making the enemy come to you on your terms or at the very least with a mitigated force so that you mid/long range shooting and assault goes off at greater effect...strangle flexes for me have meant the gun line armies (or anything with plasma) has to come into your danger zone.

It's about inflicting damage on the enemy while they're inflicting damage on you. If there's no ranged component or super speed, you end up losing more and more units while the for stays unharmed. Diminishing returns make the game very hard to win.

And regardless of the shooting option I give my fexes adrenal glands and onslaught are mandatory as well.

Here is my philosophy with regards to the HVC's and stranglethorns, especially with regards to putting them on our carnifexes. I shall hereby call the 2x TL-devourer fexes the "dakkafexes" whereas the fexes wtih HVC/stranglethorns + devourers the "gunfexes".

Keep in mind that I tend to look at things from a more competitive perspective. When I look at the viability of an army....no, when I look at the viability of an army to be able to compete against other competitive armies, I don't just look at how well they can do against "normal" armies. Rather, I look at how well they can potentially do against the more competitive armies. Thus, I look at how they will fare against the likes of Tau, Eldar and Necrons (and perhaps even marine armies like the White Scars bikers).

The HVC/stranglethorn and gunfexes are decent against the majority of the armies out there. However, they are just not efficient enough against the "top-tier" tournament army builds. Most top-tier builds just don't care about them.

Most of the top lists hide their infantry. Tau will either run suits that can jump behind LOS-blocking terrain, outflanking kroots who will start off in reserves or mech up their fire warriors. There are some Tau builds that still run fire warrior-heavy builds (i.e. the Tau "pulse-bomb"), however, these builds are now dwindling in favor of troop denial lists (i.e. the units that start off in reserves or in transports). Then most of the time when these troops come in, they just hide behind LOS-blocking terrain.

Eldar mainly run jetbike troops who start off in reserves and hide....or they run guys in wave serpents. Wave serpents just don't care because most of them will be getting 4+ cover when they move or if bugs are going first, you can only glance them because they haven't used their serpent shields yet. In any case, it takes quantity of shots to deal with these types of lists and HVC's/stranglethorns just doesn't have it.

Necrons have troops in flyers or in ghost arks. They just don't respect blasts.

Most top-tier lists just don't care that much about the pinning effects of stranglethorns and/or biovores. Wraiths, daemons, wraithknights, fearless units and bikers just can't be pinned. Now riptides and broadsides are somewhat more vulnerable to the pinning effects of these guns, but first they have to fail their 2+ saves. Then on top of that, an Ethereal in the vicinity can and will give them stubborn LD10 for pinning tests.

It just takes volume-of-fire to deal with the top armies. Brainleech devourers can give you the volume you need, albeit at a lower strength, but HVC's/stranglethorns just cannot produce the VoF that is necessary to deal with those armies. You will lose a ranged fire-fight against the likes of competitive Tau or Eldar. They are just much more efficient shooters than bugs can ever hope to be.

Against the top-tier armies, gunfexes and HVC's/stranglethorns (unless they are mounted on harpies) just encourages you to attack in waves. Unless you have Onslaught in your army, the gunfexes will walk and shoot, walk and shoot. They are slow. Now this is not necessarily bad against most armies, but against the likes of Tau, eldar or other really shooty builds, it is almost like signing your own death warrant. These armies want you to attack in waves. It just gives them more time to shoot down your army. Let's ignore those gunfexes for now and deal with his flyrants who are a much bigger threat. After that, then we can deal with those fexes. Hey, yeah, we'll be giving them 1 extra turn of shooting. That's only an additional 3 S9 small blasts or 3 S6 large blasts. However, this gives our guns another turn to fire 36 S6 rending shots + 60 S5 pulse shots!

Shooting is important. However, against the top-tier armies, mobility is arguably more important. You need to get to their lines and you need to overload them. The best balance between the 2 is shooting on a mobile platform. That's why I prefer shooting on the flyrants, psychic-heavy tyranids for more chances at Catalyst and Onslaught and tyranid flyers, who while not great shooters, have the mobility to force the opponent to have to deal with them.

 felixcat wrote:
Just curious here. Riptides are a pain for Nids to deal with. Has anyone used pinning tests (horror on broodlords) with the deathleaper assassin squad to try and pull this off? I know the -1 does not stack. Is it just too unlikely to succeed? It would be LD 8 for the test. I also need to remember to position myself to fire off my flesh hooks more effectively next game. Five Lictors and Deathleaper actually have a nice number of S8 shots and you can DS them accurately as well.

It's a risky strategy against Tau. Firstly, if he has an Ethereal in the army, he can make the army practically a stubborn LD10. That means the modifiers will not work.

Secondly, I believe markerlights can be used to increase the BS of snapshots. Thus, even if you do manage to pin the unit, markerlights used to support the unit can still wipe out your genestealers, especially with ripple-fire (or with just the commander in the unit giving it the Ignore Cover).

Also, what happens if you don't go 1st? Right, now you're forced to outflank/hide/reserve your stealers or have them get blasted into kingdom come by Tau.

LD shenanigans are all gimmicky builds that can either work very well against certain armies, or which will fail utterly against other armies.

 ductvader wrote:
Just ran a list tonight with a ton of strangle fexes and barbed stranglers...it feels nice to out range the bulk of tau.

I went second and didn't lose a model turn one...my own "alpha strike" was quite devastating to tau infantry...and as tau have so few scoring units in most lists...I was just able to stay put on my side of the board for the remainder of the game.

If I had been running Devourers...my fexes would have run head first into broadside/riptide fire with ought getting a chance to nuke fire warriors and kroot.

I really hate not running a second gun on the fex, but I find those points are often wasted...versus centurions who also had to walk to me...I was wishing my fexes were just adrenal/strangle.

As for venoms...I run two...and the are without a doubt the most worthwhile 90 points I have ever spent on anything in this game.

I don't know about anyone else...but I love our psychic table...I always get excited no matter what I roll.

JY2...would you recommend combat shrikes? And if so...would you just leave it at rending? (I just found 18 unbuilt warriors in my sprues box)

Combat shrikes could work, though I much prefer raveners instead because they're better fighters with more attacks and they don't care about terrain. But if I ran combat shrikes, I'd just give them rending claws and that's it.

SBG wrote:
I'm wondering what your thoughts are on an army that may not need to close - a shooty Tyranid list, if you like. The bugs are definitely easy to take apart in waves, but what if they don't care to get in close?

I've had good luck with this theory, but I'm not in a terribly competitive environment. I like to see Tyranids as a blast/large blast/template spam army, which can hold itself in CC against almost anything, and with that in mind I prefer to avoid closing (!).

Granted, it is not competitive against flyer spam, and those jink saves of yours would be frustrating , but if you think about it... taking as many of these types of guns possible (7-9 stranglethorn cannons, a few harpies with twin-linked HVCs) might be very viable especially if you surprise your opponents with the gunline tactic. By the time they realize they need to come to you, it could well be too late.

What do you guys think?

Shooty nids are good against the majority of the armies out there. However, it's against the ultra-shooty armies where they will utterly fail. Tau, shooty Eldar (mechdar), DE venom-spam, IG, space wolves....all these armies will out-shoot even the most shooty Tyranid army. You can't beat them in a sustained firefight. You need to close in on those armies as well.

I used to run a shooty Tyranid army back in 5th with 9 hive guards, t-fex with rupture cannon and 6 biovores. I just can't see that army working nowadays unless there was a ton of LOS-blocking terrain (my army didn't need LOS to shoot ). Nowadays, to fight the top armies, you need a mix of shooting, mobility and assault capability. In other words, you need a balanced Tyranid army.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
I dunno about jy2, but in my experience Tyranids don't have the sort of long ranged damage output to rely on gunline tactics. I see the strength of codex lying in mid/close-ranged shooting then assault. Long ranged units have their place as support, but I wouldn't make it the main focus of a list.

I see this as well.

Tyranids work best then they are advancing and applying pressure, all the while shooting. Against some armies - especially the very shooty ones - the only difference is that they need to be able to advance upfield much faster.....anything to minimize the return fire from the enemy.

 ductvader wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
I dunno about jy2, but in my experience Tyranids don't have the sort of long ranged damage output to rely on gunline tactics. I see the strength of codex lying in mid/close-ranged shooting then assault. Long ranged units have their place as support, but I wouldn't make it the main focus of a list.

It's not really about gun line tactics...it's more about making the enemy come to you on your terms or at the very least with a mitigated force so that you mid/long range shooting and assault goes off at greater effect...strangle flexes for me have meant the gun line armies (or anything with plasma) has to come into your danger zone.

The only problem is that some armies don't need to come to you. Tyranids just cannot match many of these armies in terms of long-range firepower.

Firstly, if he has an Ethereal in the army, he can make the army practically a stubborn LD10. That means the modifiers will not work.

Except that if he has an Ethereal you can use the Deathleaper to make his LD D3 less and really screw him over. He now has all those units that MUST use the Ethereal's LD. And then you get the -1 on top from the dataslate (just not on the Ethereal). So units near the Ethereal would have an average of LD 7 - or am I misreading the rule?

Well, don't have my codex with me, but it depends on whether they must or they may use his LD. Usually, the rules for LD tells you to use the highest, thus if the "other" unit's LD is lower, then you'd use your own, but that really depends on what the codex says. As for Stubborn, the Ethereal can give all units within 12" the USR. Thus, that should negate the -1 penalty.


-------------------------------------------------------


BTW, my goodness! This thread has surpassed the Sisters thread not in terms of replies, but in terms of views!