Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Mr Morden wrote:
So what is in it?

1. How to play tactical terrain games.
2. How much terrain you can choose per the 4 various size of games.
3. The complete basic rules for 40K reprinted.
4. The above includes all the secondary objectives we already have, pus a few more building specific ones.
5. 6x4 missions, one set of 6 per size of game.

And that's it.

ugh. Every time I think I vaguely understand what GW's release model is, they do something even weirder.

I'm comparing this book to the CA2020: GT mission pack (the one that came with the points book).

They've done everyone the amazing disservice of reprinting at least half the book (secondary objectives, 'battle ready' definition, basic rules, actions, strats, strategic reserves, objective markers, rare rules, rules glossary), and by golly if all the page numbers aren't different. That sure makes communication and rules reference even more horribly complicated, good show there, you crazy editors.

Fun bonus: this book doesn't seem to have the force org charts either, because why have those in any handy size reference books on the go?

---
Anyway, comparing the table of contents, pages 4-17 seem to be new, and pages 26-70 are hopefully new missions. Everything else is copypasta, as far as I can tell.

Its a spiral bound flip book in the same style as the GT book, but 104 pages rather than 96 (but lacks the points book). Same New Zealand price (NZ$83), so $40 US 58 small format pages of new information (hopefully new, anyway)

@HBMC- interestingly, the store page claims 18 new missions, not 24. Unless some of your 6x4 missions aren't new, which is quite possible.

Hmm... I thought it was 6 missions per size of game. Guess it's only 3x6, as they're lumping 2000 point games and anything beyond 2000 points into the same category.

I mean, like it matters anyway? All 9th missions so far just appear to be some variation on setting up 4-8 objective markers in a vaguely symmetrical manner and then you score just store points in increments of 5.

Could they have made them any more dull? I'm not sure...

 Irbis wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
The Tau are the nicest faction anyway, they can't be the big bad. They could be the big Good, I guess.

Only someone who never read any Tau fluff can say that.

Especially recent one. Or FFG where Tau create organizations worse than ISIS.

changemod wrote:
That's the traditional method. Tau severely struggle to fight guard due to the numerical disadvantage, but for marines they're pretty much the worst case scenario: Even a stealth suit is superior to standard power armour, a large Tau invasion should severely outnumber an entire chapter on crisis suits alone, they're well stocked on weapons that can punch clean through power armour, even their basic troop rifle is better than a bolter and their rapid hit and run hold no ground style of warfare is difficult to disrupt via standard marine tactics.

Uh, what? Handguns don't win the wars. If they did, Soviet Union would rule the world, because AK-47 was vastly better gun than anything USA fielded until late 80s. In reality, single marine should easily slaughter whole Tau squads, because he is faster, thougher, and smarter to an absurd degree, has armour rivaling their battlesuits, and has more combat experience than the whole squad put together - his gun doing slightly smaller pew pew doesn't matter as long as it can reliably kill Tau (and it can). Alas, Tau books are written by people who think tabletop is holy and Tau are just as good as marines, instead of being slower, weaker, short-sighted human teenage conscripts. Add to that some GW writers forgetting Tau are supposed to be developing race and spanking them to above Necron levels and you have perfect blend resulting in Plot Sues.

Thankfully, the warp mess they made in their attempt of recreating Imperial FTL (instead of just making it 20x better as would be the case just edition ago) might indicate this is (slowly) starting to change.

There’s a lot of fire warriors for each marine. Their gun being better than a bolter is therefore a factor given bolters are adequate for loyalists and heretics to shoot one another up.

Why do you think I listed that factor last though? It’s not a big enough deal on its own, but combined with the other factors it’s another nail in the coffin.

I’m not saying marines are completely useless against Tau, but they’re certainly the least efficient target to deploy marines against out of the races with codexes, especially when you consider guard are already just short of a hard counter to Tau.

 Overread wrote:
Orks, Tyranids Necrons and Chaos are the only factions that can currently rise to be the big bad of the galaxy. Eldar might if the Yinnari brings around a revival of their race and puts them back on the map. Dark Eldar and Tau are the two who are both just too small to make it big on the major scene. Though both Eldar and Dark Eldar might twist another faction to do their bidding (without the faction realising).

Tau are out on their own and likely will remain so for a long time. At least until something major happens. Thing is even if they were to suddenly secure a few thousand worlds and become a major threat it would take time to breed up enough Tau so that it was Tau and not "Imperial Guard working for Tau" as the core of the army

The "something" being gw deciding so. You　think this　is some real story gw just records. It's piece of text gw writes for sake of selling models. They want to push tau they can make them the big bad with snap of finger inventing whatever techno babble needed. They find race that sorts out ftl and hey presto they open up reserve vaults containing trillions of battle suits and battle fleet that have been waiting for this. Done.

tneva82 wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Orks, Tyranids Necrons and Chaos are the only factions that can currently rise to be the big bad of the galaxy. Eldar might if the Yinnari brings around a revival of their race and puts them back on the map. Dark Eldar and Tau are the two who are both just too small to make it big on the major scene. Though both Eldar and Dark Eldar might twist another faction to do their bidding (without the faction realising).

Tau are out on their own and likely will remain so for a long time. At least until something major happens. Thing is even if they were to suddenly secure a few thousand worlds and become a major threat it would take time to breed up enough Tau so that it was Tau and not "Imperial Guard working for Tau" as the core of the army

The "something" being gw deciding so. You　think this　is some real story gw just records. It's piece of text gw writes for sake of selling models. They want to push tau they can make them the big bad with snap of finger inventing whatever techno babble needed. They find race that sorts out ftl and hey presto they open up reserve vaults containing trillions of battle suits and battle fleet that have been waiting for this. Done.

Yes the lore can evolve, but we have to stick with what we've got otherwise discussions lose all common ground for discussion. If we all just invent things (like GW does) then we can't really discuss lore because we'd all be inventing different ideas for the future. So we have to discuss matters as they are now within the lore. So as of right now Tau can't rise to be a major threat.


Also you missed out the other idea. Instead of rising Tau up, you lower the others down. Tyranids spark a vast invasion theorised to be the motherload (10th edition after the 9th edition Necron build up). A vast war across all fronts, Ork, Man, Eldar, Necron and Tau standing shoulder to shoulder to hip only just winning. Leaving the Galaxy burned out; Humanity fragmented, Tyranids broken, Orks Ravaged, Eldar hanging on as they were but now no longer outnumbered etc.... Thus the Tau manage to rise up because the other races got knocked down multiple pegs and - tabletop wise - it has no impact.

changemod wrote:

 Irbis wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
The Tau are the nicest faction anyway, they can't be the big bad. They could be the big Good, I guess.

Only someone who never read any Tau fluff can say that.

Especially recent one. Or FFG where Tau create organizations worse than ISIS.

changemod wrote:
That's the traditional method. Tau severely struggle to fight guard due to the numerical disadvantage, but for marines they're pretty much the worst case scenario: Even a stealth suit is superior to standard power armour, a large Tau invasion should severely outnumber an entire chapter on crisis suits alone, they're well stocked on weapons that can punch clean through power armour, even their basic troop rifle is better than a bolter and their rapid hit and run hold no ground style of warfare is difficult to disrupt via standard marine tactics.

Uh, what? Handguns don't win the wars. If they did, Soviet Union would rule the world, because AK-47 was vastly better gun than anything USA fielded until late 80s. In reality, single marine should easily slaughter whole Tau squads, because he is faster, thougher, and smarter to an absurd degree, has armour rivaling their battlesuits, and has more combat experience than the whole squad put together - his gun doing slightly smaller pew pew doesn't matter as long as it can reliably kill Tau (and it can). Alas, Tau books are written by people who think tabletop is holy and Tau are just as good as marines, instead of being slower, weaker, short-sighted human teenage conscripts. Add to that some GW writers forgetting Tau are supposed to be developing race and spanking them to above Necron levels and you have perfect blend resulting in Plot Sues.

Thankfully, the warp mess they made in their attempt of recreating Imperial FTL (instead of just making it 20x better as would be the case just edition ago) might indicate this is (slowly) starting to change.

There’s a lot of fire warriors for each marine. Their gun being better than a bolter is therefore a factor given bolters are adequate for loyalists and heretics to shoot one another up.

Why do you think I listed that factor last though? It’s not a big enough deal on its own, but combined with the other factors it’s another nail in the coffin.

I’m not saying marines are completely useless against Tau, but they’re certainly the least efficient target to deploy marines against out of the races with codexes, especially when you consider guard are already just short of a hard counter to Tau.

Marines do fine against Tau when used effectively or as part of a combined arms force. Tau really don't like fighting against Marines either. If the Marines do not treat the Tau as an enemy worthy of respect (in terms of effectivness) - they will get owned - but thats the same as Tryanids, Necrons etc.

Tau Fire Warriors are good, they are well trained, discplined and effective - but even hitting a moving Marine is not that easy, something that does not come across in the game.

we need to stop talking about "Big enemies" of an edition. The Death Guard, after all, factored into one big event and then where basicly forgotten about until their PA supplement. 9th edition isn't going to be the "all about necrons" edition.

BrianDavion wrote:
we need to stop talking about "Big enemies" of an edition. The Death Guard, after all, factored into one big event and then where basicly forgotten about until their PA supplement. 9th edition isn't going to be the "all about necrons" edition.

Yeah it's less a narrative thing and more of an artwork theme, keeping all the genereic 40k products consistent. I'm sure there will be more scenery & starter sets coming with Ultramarines vs Necrons models on the box up until they're ready to switch to 10E.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Tau really don't like fighting against Marines either.

Really? Because the pattern I’ve seen is repeated humiliation. First major marine invasion of a tau world, they tried drop podding an entire company in to a population centre. The tau commander on the scene replied by equipping plasma guns to an entire cadre of crisis suits, counter dropping them and wiping the company out.

In a pretty recent campaign we had the speedy chapter and the stealth chapter try to take Tau on, speedy chapter got outran and outflanked at every turn to the point of complete frustration whilst, the chapter master of the stealth chapter took a decloaking fusion cannon to the chest at point blank range.

It’s absolutely not a matter of Tau superiority, they lack many, many advantages the imperials have... but they’re a pretty hard counter to marines in specific and the only way that could realistically be mitigated is by making marines a much less rare resource.

BrianDavion wrote:
we need to stop talking about "Big enemies" of an edition. The Death Guard, after all, factored into one big event and then where basicly forgotten about until their PA supplement. 9th edition isn't going to be the "all about necrons" edition.

While true, it sure feels like there is a lot more going on here with the Necrons than the Deathguard in 8th.

We've already gotten crusade supplements for the Pariah Nexus, multiple novels coming, etc.

I'm sure that it won't be the entire edition or anything, but so far it does seem like there is a much bigger narrative and associated product push for 9th than there was for the Deathguard in 8th.

BrianDavion wrote:
we need to stop talking about "Big enemies" of an edition. The Death Guard, after all, factored into one big event and then where basicly forgotten about until their PA supplement. 9th edition isn't going to be the "all about necrons" edition.

We already know that several hundred years after the Pariah Nexus was discovered... nothing much has happened, so there isn't really anywhere for the new 9th ed. Necron storyline to go.

changemod wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Tau really don't like fighting against Marines either.

Really? Because the pattern I’ve seen is repeated humiliation. First major marine invasion of a tau world, they tried drop podding an entire company in to a population centre. The tau commander on the scene replied by equipping plasma guns to an entire cadre of crisis suits, counter dropping them and wiping the company out.

In a pretty recent campaign we had the speedy chapter and the stealth chapter try to take Tau on, speedy chapter got outran and outflanked at every turn to the point of complete frustration whilst, the chapter master of the stealth chapter took a decloaking fusion cannon to the chest at point blank range.

It’s absolutely not a matter of Tau superiority, they lack many, many advantages the imperials have... but they’re a pretty hard counter to marines in specific and the only way that could realistically be mitigated is by making marines a much less rare resource.

As I said

it goes both ways - IF the Marines do't treat the Tau as a formidable enemy - they can do very badly,.

I think the first one you mention is the original Taros campaign? In that yes, the Marines were finally forstalled and suffered heavy casulties in the city battle - but so did the Tau - lots of material and worse actual Tau. Later the combination of Warhounds and Marines is unstopable, destroying anything the Tau throw at them until
they deploy a modified Tiger Shark, killing one Warhound and making the Ad Mech withdraw.

In the recent campaign, the war is mixed, the Tau achieve considable victories against the Marines, but again when the Marines re assess their enemies its more even handed - as the raven Guard and Whiet Scars do achieve some victories.

The arrogance of the Astartes is its own weakness, plus often the assumption they can fight their way through, whatever the enemy.

Marines excell in brutalility and close quarter fighting - thats a place the Tau do not want to be facing them.

Can the 'measuring contest' between tau and marines go somewhere else?

It has jack to do with any sort of releases.

Voss wrote:
Can the 'measuring contest' between tau and marines go somewhere else?

It has jack to do with any sort of releases.

In all fairness, I made a pretty straightforward point and now I’m having to inexplicably defend it against walls of text that seem to, at the most generous interpretation, have completely missed it.

changemod wrote:

Voss wrote:
Can the 'measuring contest' between tau and marines go somewhere else?

It has jack to do with any sort of releases.

In all fairness, I made a pretty straightforward point and now I’m having to inexplicably defend it against walls of text that seem to, at the most generous interpretation, have completely missed it.

Before I am further misrepresented - I merely said its not that simple.....

Happy to talk elsewhere on this subject.

Switching to the actual topic - is there any actual new info on coming releases.

So the new tactical terrain book is kinda a mini rule book but without all the info you need to play the game? - force org charts being the most obvious omission?

Codexes and a few Marine things seem to be confirmed as pre-orders next week. Should hopefully be some big chunky War-com articles on the new codexes to bring it in. Feel its surprising we only got the Destroyer article this week.

Tyel wrote:
Codexes and a few Marine things seem to be confirmed as pre-orders next week. Should hopefully be some big chunky War-com articles on the new codexes to bring it in. Feel its surprising we only got the Destroyer article this week.

Even more so considering the AoS Gargants hints they've been dropping all week. Unless its a triple release. Gartants is just 1 kit and a book.

Tyel wrote:
Codexes and a few Marine things seem to be confirmed as pre-orders next week. Should hopefully be some big chunky War-com articles on the new codexes to bring it in. Feel its surprising we only got the Destroyer article this week.

Both codexes? If we get both out of the way quickly could that mean that they'll finally get around to the Imperial Armour Compendium?

this is what's floating about on facebook for next week's preorders

Hmm have those codex gone up in price? So we are looking at perhaps closer to £30 a codex?

the marines one was more expensive due to size, but the Necron cost is a surprise. Also interesting that the other marine dice are showing up too.

 Overread wrote:
Hmm have those codex gone up in price? So we are looking at perhaps closer to £30 a codex?

Yes. The 8th edition Codex Necrons was $40, so it's an increase of $10

 Overread wrote:
Hmm have those codex gone up in price? So we are looking at perhaps closer to £30 a codex?

Yes quite a hefty oee at that

Players should be wary what they wish with gw. "give us rules　in app". "sure after you buy codex that gets price hike as you get 2 to 1"

 Ghaz wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Hmm have those codex gone up in price? So we are looking at perhaps closer to £30 a codex?

Yes. The 8th edition Codex Necrons was $40, so it's an increase of $10

That's not really surprising. Interesting that the dice cost more than the recently released fw legion dice.

Well, one more week to "wait and see" how the new codexes stack up to each other. Assuming they don't get leaked beforehand. When do we expect the reviews to be released?

Well, at the start of 8th there were books for DG, too, their Invasion of the the Plague stars was one of the few new chapters in the rulebook and then there was the whole Konor-campaign. After that there were the Gellarpox infected which featured together with DG on Vigilus, even if only as a sideplot. Overall I'd say DG had a pretty big showing in 8th, Chaos as a whole even more.

tneva82 wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Hmm have those codex gone up in price? So we are looking at perhaps closer to £30 a codex?

Yes quite a hefty oee at that

Players should be wary what they wish with gw. "give us rules　in app". "sure after you buy codex that gets price hike as you get 2 to 1"

The codices will have additional content for Crusade now, so we'll see if it's worth the price...

 Ghaz wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Hmm have those codex gone up in price? So we are looking at perhaps closer to £30 a codex?

Yes quite a hefty oee at that

Players should be wary what they wish with gw. "give us rules　in app". "sure after you buy codex that gets price hike as you get 2 to 1"

The codices will have additional content for Crusade now, so we'll see if it's worth the price...

There's also the download code for the book in app as part of it, if that's still holding up from the initial announcement.

Speaking of Crusade, I didn't realise that Beyond the Veil was a ring bound rules reference until the pre order pics went up. With GW touting Crusade as a narrative system, I was kinda hoping for something with more fluff.

Just trying to figure out what those might be in UK prices, roughly:

£40 - Codex
£30 - Canoptek doomstalker
£25 - Destroyers
£120 - Szarekh?