Re:Ifalna's minis - Celestial WraithKnight Update + Fire Prism for sale

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**Briancj**

Are you talking about a matte spray so matte, light cannot escape from it?

**Wehrkind**

Spray so Matte, it gets tapped to be the next Dr Who.

**Ifalna**

Haha, the puns, really helped guys, thanks ^^

This is the absolute best set of shots I could get, and there is 0 distinction between anything.

The golds are ruined with all their definition lost to weird, blurry shine, the blacks are all now grey from the sheen, it's just awful:

To get an idea of how unbelievably not matte it is, check out the video of me rotating it.

https://www.facebook.com/IffysPainting/videos/890607011021548/?hc_location=ufi

Edit:

Thinking about it, that photo probably doesn't look that bad to folks, but that's because you don't have the figure to compare it to :( My partner agreed when he checked him out today and said the same thing, the gloss finish is really negatively affecting the contrasting in the photos.

I just sent this to W&N so I hope I will hear back something:

Hi guys, I'm a long time fan of W&N as the series 7 long haired brushes are considered the be all and end all for sable brushes in the miniature painting community, and have been a happy user of W&N products for about ten years now

Last week, I was thrilled to find my local hobby store was selling W&N Multiuse Matte Varnish, which was a big deal as it's very hard to get a good Matte spray varnish in Ireland!

It wasn't that cheap at 15 euro, but I've never had a single bad experience with any of your products so had no problem paying for it, and even posting how happy I was to find it on my painting blogs on Facebook and Dakka Dakka.

I used it for the first time last night, and completely ruined a figure I spent over 18 hours work on, and which was to be sold on Ebay.

It is NOT Matte, it is Satin.

That sounds like I am complaining about something stupid, but the problem is, I paint miniature figures. Most under the size of a thumb. When photographing them, unless you have an extremely expensive DSLR camera that can shoot at very low light levels and long exposure, you have to be extremely careful with lighting to make sure none of the contrast work and shadowing painted on is lost, as they are so tiny that a glare or shine in the wrong place could wipe out 3 hours of work.

This guy is so shiny, he is not possible to photo correctly, so I now cannot sell him at the price his paint work should be at. All of his recesses are slightly shiny, his blacks are now a glossy grey, all his metallics are halfway between matte and gloss and blend together with no differentation anymore because the sheen has just covered everything.

Here is thread with a video showing how insanely shiny this Matte varnish dried, and this is after 5 minutes of agitating the can and spraying in correct conditions:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/eaviermetal/permalink/934213899976155/

I'm really upset lads. I never even thought "Wow I should test this out first just in case it is totally gak" because it was W&N, one of the highest quality brands available here.

I've had to pay and order in some brush on extreme matte varnish which will dull him down, but also add texturing he should not have and still negatively affect his price.

I've been a loyal customer of W&N for a long time, even when cheaper sable brushes like Rosemary and Co started appearing, but this is a real shaker for my happiness with the brand.

**Gitsplitta**

Actually Iffy, I don't think that's as bad as all that. I think it looks stunning honestly. I like the fact that you did the mechanical claw bits in silver/steel rather than gold... really makes them jump out as being a very functional element of the armor.

**Ifalna**

Ah thanks Gits, I appreciate that, it's just very hard to show you guys WHY the photos are so bad, because you would have to be looking at the model itself D:

Maybe I will just have to fly you all over to Ireland so you can take a look and then nod in agreement?

Haha, it would be worth it

I have some Vallejo pure matte varnish on the way but my wee schedule was to have this guy totally finished so I could toss him on Ebay and work on the other two projects I'm doing atm

(Tiny boats, and the worst figure ever painted as a jokey gift for a friend who might read here every now and then so NO HINTS FOR YOU, AMY!!)

**Gitsplitta**

You know Iffy, it comes to mind that there is another very talented painter on Dakka who complains regularly about professional painters using black or very dark background to artificially increase the "drama" of a figure when in fact, it tends to mask the actual painting skill involved (for good or ill). He recommends/pontificates a white background (you know who you are!!) as being be best for actually showing off the figure... however in my experience digital cameras often have a hard time dealing with extremes in either background (white or black). So white backgrounds tend to leave things underexposed & washed out while black backgrounds increase the contrast to the point where you lose the subtleties. I think my best results have come with a neutral grey or tan background, which seems to average the light balance & give the figure an honest shot at being a good representation of how it appears in-hand. Might be worth a shot.

**Wehrkind**

Testors.... Testors.... Testors....

Model looks great, but yea... knowing what I am looking for that shine is driving me nuts

If I do have one quibble, it is that the skull on his rack is too white. I prefer a more beige look to skulls. Which seems incredible asinine now that I write it, but it strikes me as looking a tad unfinished and plasticy looking next to all that great blending.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
As a general "What are you doing GW?" question: What do you suppose is in the pink sack? Does his den mother pack his trail mix and hang it there before battle? Is it his dream sack? I have never understood that. How does he even get to it?

**Ifalna**

You know Iffy, it comes to mind that there is another very talented painter on Dakka who complains regularly about professional painters using black or very dark background to artificially increase the "drama" of a figure when in fact, it tends to mask the actual painting skill involved (for good or ill). He recommends/pontificates a white background (you know who you are!!) as being be best for actually showing off the figure... however in my experience digital cameras often have a hard time dealing with extremes in either background (white or black). So white backgrounds tend to leave things underexposed & washed out while black backgrounds increase the contrast to the point where you lose the subtleties. I think my best results have come with a neutral grey or tan background, which seems to average the light balance & give the figure an honest shot at being a good representation of how it appears in-hand. Might be worth a shot.

White is absolutely the best for most mini's, I totally agree.

I originally photod this guy on white, then grey, then tan, and the problem is that he is so freaking glossy that the reflected light left him with a horrible sheen.

The mid grey black was the only background I found that worked, pure black was awful, as it hid half of him like you said, even though it reduced the glare.

The big culprit is my camera honestly.

I find that:

Grey gives the best colour correction and a well lit, honest representation of the fig.

White is great for darker figs that just need a wee bit more light, but you have to light them very carefully with white or you can get a bit of glare or incorrect white correction with crappy little cameras like mine ^^

Black is amazing for larger figures or for very bright ones. It can also make a "bland" figure painted using a lot of neutral tones look better than white, as it draws attention to any little shades of colour you used instead of washing it out a little like white.

It's frustrating, because you are totally right that white or grey would be better, the only reason they aren't with this dude are the gloss, the extra bouncing light just leaves him a shining blur :(

**Gitsplitta**

Wehrkind wrote:
As a general "What are you doing GW?" question: What do you suppose is in the pink sack? Does his den mother pack his trail mix and hang it there before battle? Is it his dream sack? I have never understood that. How does he even get to it?

I don't think that anything is in it at all... well... perhaps a couple of nuts. Probably wasn't even put there on purpose... it's just a gobbit that flew off an enemy that was being shredded and got stuck up there!

**Ifalna**

Wehrkind wrote:Testors.... Testors.... Testors....

Ye cannae get it in IRELANDIA.

I swear, it is like we have banned it! I can order it online but it is basically a million, billion euro + 1.

Wehrkind wrote:Model looks great, but yea... knowing what I am looking for that shine is driving me nuts
If I do have one quibble, it is that the skull on his rack is too white. I prefer a more beige look to skulls. Which seems incredible asinine now that I write it, but it strikes me as looking a tad unfinished and plasticy looking next to all that great blending.

It's killing me every time I look at it :(

That's really great feedback though, I tried to use the loaded brush tech on the skull and it was great fun, but it's wayyyy brighter than the rest. It shows up even more cause of how dark he is, so I'll darken that down a bit tonight

Thanks for pointing it out man!

Wehrkind wrote:As a general "What are you doing GW?" question: What do you suppose is in the pink sack? Does his den mother pack his trail mix and hang it there before battle? Is it his dream sack? I have never understood that. How does he even get to it?

The pink sack has his night out kit in it. Spare armor polish, some mascara, a beating demonic heart, everything he needs for a night on the town.

**Wehrkind**

Aaand I snarfed breakfast sausage.

I love the idea of his night out kit being in there, but now I want to model up a termi holding a little sequined clutch in his power claws.

Sucks about not being able to get Testors in the EU. I hadn't realized that it was impossible to get paint stuff from here to there, just now saw that the Warstore isn't allowed to ship it internationally due to LAWS. What a bloody mess. What is going on in Europe that spray paints and related products cost so much?

I suppose I could generalize that question... that's like 5th time this month I have found myself asking what is wrong in Europe that makes X crazy expensive.

**Ifalna**

Wehrkind wrote:
Aaand I snarfed breakfast sausage. I love the idea of his night out kit being in there, but now I want to model up a termi holding a little sequined clutch in his power claws.

Sucks about not being able to get Testors in the EU. I hadn't realized that it was impossible to get paint stuff from here to there, just now saw that the Warstore isn't allowed to ship it internationally due to LAWS. What a bloody mess. What is going on in Europe that spray paints and related products cost so much?

I suppose I could generalize that question... that's like 5th time this month I have found myself asking what is wrong in Europe that makes X crazy expensive.

Ah man, there is so much stuff we cant get here.

People are always talking about airbrushing medium, glaze medium, isopropyl alcohol in diy stores, all this stuff is impossible to find here!

If I wanted to buy any form of raw alcohol, I would have to buy it from a chemist in a tiny bottle for an extorionate amount of money.

We can't ship anything like that in either, so I am quite often very behind the cool kids of painting with all their awesome accesories I can't get ^^

Then again, the USA has its odddities too, I remember trying to send Gitsplitta some sweets for his kiddos and made the mistake of packaging some Kinder Eggs in there, did a check on candy custom laws just before I sent them luckily ><

I think they might finally be legal to import now though, I am not sure!

**Dr H**

Ooo, that is shiny. Hope W&N pull out some good customer service for you.

What we can see between the shiny bits looks great though. I look forward to seeing the Matt version.

**Ifalna**

Dr H wrote:
Ooo, that is shiny. Hope W&N pull out some good customer service for you.

Hi Sarah,

Thank you for your interest in Winsor & Newton.

Matte varnishes all have a matting agent which requires vigorous shaking as it can sink to the bottom of the can. If it has not been adequately dispersed, you will get a variation of finish. If you believe this can is faulty, you need to return it to me for testing.

Kind regards,

Thanks for not reading the mail at all, and the implication that I don't know how to agitate a spray.

If any member of my team were sending out responses like this in our company, they would be immediately put on a performance review. Awful, not a single part of my mail was addressed, no apology, no even attempt at compassion or empathy, asked to speak to a CS supervisor.

**Ramos Asura**

Man thats just a depressing email...

Give a look to Liquitex Matte. Its in a big bottle, is common in art stores (hopefully in Ireland as well), and for the most part is very matte.

http://www.amazon.com/Liquitex-Professional-Matte-Varnish-8-oz/dp/B000KNPLTM?

Not the most absolute matte I've seen, but it does its job. Plus its relatively cheap. I got a 500mL bottle for like 13 bucks here.
It runs through an airbrush too. Just a little windex to loosen it up and boom. You're off.
Its my go-to, at least!

Hopefully CS gets you some better results!

EDIT:

Looks like amazon UK sells it... might help a bit.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Liquitex-Professional-Matte-Varnish-237/dp/B000KNPLTM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1440035180&sr=8-1&keywords=liquitex+matte+varnish

**SlaveToDorkness**

Testors Dullcoat. It'd make Pamela Anderson flat!

**Ifalna**

Thanks for the ideas guys!

Testors is not available in Ireland, and we can't legally send aerosols in the mail, but I'm going to be MEGA CHEEKY and see if an American friend can send me a can.

The worst thing that will happen if customs finds it is to send it back, so that should work out

Ramos Asura, I have heard awesome things about liquitex in general, I want to try and get some next month, but the postage is so insane:

Liquitex Professional Matte Varnish, 237 ml

EUR 15.60
+ EUR 18.39 postage

That's from England.

That's a 4 euro postage fee at most.

Edit:

Ohhh, and nearly forgot:

**Wehrkind**

Holy balls, 18 pounds to get a can from Britain?! No wonder Ireland's economy went through the ringer. It amazes me that people continue to live there (or Europe at all from what I hear from folks.)

That and screw W&N. What crap customer service, a real shame on the company.

**Dr H**

Yeah that sucks for W&N.

and postage like that is because you live on an island, called Ireland, off an island. Don't think that the spelling differences are fooling anybody.

Hope you manage to solve your Matt issues without the need to re-mortgage or sell your soul.

**Fifty**

I don't know how they could read your original email, watch that video and then come to the conclusion that you probably don't know how to shake a can properly...

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ifalna wrote:
I am so.. angry.. with myself.

My life has changed.

Then again, maybe they found this thread, saw this post and figured maybe you don't!!!

(I jest

)

**Ifalna**

Wehrkind wrote:Holy balls, 18 pounds to get a can from Britain?! No wonder Ireland's economy went through the ringer. It amazes me that people continue to live there (or Europe at all from what I hear from folks.)

Dr H wrote: postage like that is because you live on an island, called Ireland, off an island. Don't think that the spelling differences are fooling anybody.

Haha, the postage is just people taking the

and charging as high as they want.

The actual price to ship a can that weight from here to england would be about 6 euro. They just hike the prices up crazy on Ebay because they know no one really has any other choice ><

Irelands shipping prices are crazy good. I recall shipping a unit of painted, packaged marines to China, tracked, for a tenner.

People just make up prices for shipping to usand get away with it!

Wehrkind wrote:That and screw W&N. What crap customer service, a real shame on the company.

Dr H wrote:Yeah that sucks for W&N.
Hope you manage to solve your Matt issues without the need to re-mortgage or sell your soul.

It was TERRIBLE cs, but I went pretty mental (in a polite way) in the response and got a far better response from a lady named Melodie who instead of demanding I post them back an Aerosol can as there is no way it could be Satin as I claim, asked for the batch number to test, and is sending me out a new can just in case, and a nice size 1 Series 7

That's how it should be considering this can has cost me over 20 quid now in total, and I happy again with W&N, though I won't be buying any more varnish from em.

**Fifty**

Well, it is good to know someone did a better job of CS.

**Ifalna**

Fifty wrote:
I don't know how they could read your original email, watch that video and then come to the conclusion that you probably don't know how to shake a can properly...

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ifalna wrote:
I am so.. angry.. with myself.

My life has changed.

Then again, maybe they found this thread, saw this post and figured maybe you don't!!!

(I jest )

OMG SHUSH

**Dr H**

That's a much better response.

So we all know now, that if we ever want to contact W&N, to ask to speak to Melodie.

**Ifalna**

WRAITH KNIGHTS TAKE SO LONG TO ASSEMBLE.

WHY DID NO ONE WARN ME.

GOD.

He's all up and I'm working on him now and very happy so far

I took one some awesome feedback I got from Gits and darkened him down a lot more than the Fire Prism.

A LOT of the Fire Prism was mistakes, or covering mistakes, as I had no idea what I was doing and learning as I went, but with what I learned from it, I'm getting way better results now.

Here is himself and his base colours (The purple is much redder but the colourcasting from the turqoise and solid black was hard to avoid)

And here is an mid WIP of his shield arm after finishing in the space effects and starting on the stars.

I think it looks way more like space than the Fire Prism did, so far anyway!

I used a reference image I was trying to use on the FirePrism but botched by adding way too much blue that covered the black.

Letting the black and purple take the front seat has gotten me way closer to what I wanted, and the star effects have turned out much better now there aren't way too many of em covering everything.

**Gitsplitta**

Better. This is very inspiring Iffy. Might even try this type of scheme on my wraithdar when I finally finish up my Admech (they've been waiting patiently in the webway).

**inmygravenimage**

Sparkly and lovely. Beautiful.

JB

Oh sweet Jesus, that's pretty!

Eldar are too demanding for me to paint. They have so many clean and shiny surfaces that need a nice paintjob. I like humans because their paint schemes can be more...human?

**Ifalna**

Gitsplitta wrote:Better. This is very inspiring Iffy. Might even try this type of scheme on my wraithdar when I finally finish up my Admech (they've been waiting patiently in the webway).

I think he is much better, but still definitely room for improvement!

You should totally try it out, theres a lot of trial and error but it's a super rewarding scheme once it starts working!

inmygravenimage wrote:Sparkly and lovely. Beautiful.

SO STARRY

JB wrote:Oh sweet Jesus, that's pretty!
Eldar are too demanding for me to paint. They have so many clean and shiny surfaces that need a nice paintjob. I like humans because their paint schemes can be more...human?

Oh man, I understand.

These guys have to look pristine or they just don't look right, even if it's a gorgeous paint job

I've spent about 8 hours on him so far, and here is where he is at now:

Can folks let me know if that image is fitting to fullscreen, or stretching the screen out? Seen full size do both on my monitor and not sure how its showing for other people

The biggest downer about him is that he is SO BIG, you can't really see the detail work in these shots.

Like, his arm is the size of 2 space marines on top of each other, I really went crazy with little gas clouds and whirls and streaks.. but you can't see them this far back ^^

That's why I have gone for crazy over the top fades on the visor and sword, because they look neat and striking from any distance, then when you get closer to him you start to realise.. he is full of stars!

**GiraffeX**

The image is fine Iffy, looking stunning so far