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I found that to be more than a little unsatisfying, and anti-climactic. I guess it's nice that they wrapped a lot of story up without a stupid cliff-hangar, but it still left me feeling a little let down. I'm surprised that nobody else was killed besides Andrea and I have to say that I wasn't sad to see her go. Carl shooting the kid made me think that he's turning into a complete product of the new post-apocalypse world, kill or be killed, very much a Shane-like attitude. Which is nice because Shane was always my favorite character, but disconcerting because it's now coming from a tweenager.
All in all this season has won me back after the doldrums of S2.

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
But most of all things I would love for The Walking Dead ( comics and series ) to finish like World War Z book: while everybody were fighting to survive the Governments with their militaries and all civilians they could evacuate fled to sea to regroup and strategize. And after three years they strike back and reclaim the Earth from zombies, now this would be the ending I would love to see.

I'd love to see some large-scale zombie battles in general. Perhaps a herd assaulting the prison... a bit like in WWZ book.

 Meade wrote:

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
But most of all things I would love for The Walking Dead ( comics and series ) to finish like World War Z book: while everybody were fighting to survive the Governments with their militaries and all civilians they could evacuate fled to sea to regroup and strategize. And after three years they strike back and reclaim the Earth from zombies, now this would be the ending I would love to see.

I'd love to see some large-scale zombie battles in general. Perhaps a herd assaulting the prison... a bit like in WWZ book.

I don't think they have the budget for that. It would be good however. There is need to shift back some to the dangers of the zombie horde for a bit. Enough soap opera. We need a good old fashioned zombie hoedown to remind everyone about the joy of Zombie love.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Meade wrote:

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
But most of all things I would love for The Walking Dead ( comics and series ) to finish like World War Z book: while everybody were fighting to survive the Governments with their militaries and all civilians they could evacuate fled to sea to regroup and strategize. And after three years they strike back and reclaim the Earth from zombies, now this would be the ending I would love to see.

I'd love to see some large-scale zombie battles in general. Perhaps a herd assaulting the prison... a bit like in WWZ book.

I don't think they have the budget for that. It would be good however. There is need to shift back some to the dangers of the zombie horde for a bit. Enough soap opera. We need a good old fashioned zombie hoedown to remind everyone about the joy of Zombie love.

Have to agree with you there Frazz, I mean even though in most good zombie fiction the "human interaction dynamic" is key, let's not forget that, after all, it is a show about zombies and the hungry dead shouldn't just be regulated into the background for too long.

I had a brain fart when Carl shot that kid...

Why did he do it again?

I would have shot the kid too... he was told to put down his weapon and didn't... also Carl thinks Beth is sexy.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Meade wrote:

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
But most of all things I would love for The Walking Dead ( comics and series ) to finish like World War Z book: while everybody were fighting to survive the Governments with their militaries and all civilians they could evacuate fled to sea to regroup and strategize. And after three years they strike back and reclaim the Earth from zombies, now this would be the ending I would love to see.

I'd love to see some large-scale zombie battles in general. Perhaps a herd assaulting the prison... a bit like in WWZ book.

I don't think they have the budget for that. It would be good however. There is need to shift back some to the dangers of the zombie horde for a bit. Enough soap opera. We need a good old fashioned zombie hoedown to remind everyone about the joy of Zombie love.

You're right about the budget Frazz. There's actually supposed a wall of zombies around the prison. A constant press on the second fence. That's why a prison's double fence was the greatest find ever. Two people actually have a day job of walking in between the double fence and jabbing zombies in the face with a knife or sword. It would be a day's work of zombie stabbing. This gives a sense of the value of the prison. It's like an Island of safety in an ocean of zombies. Obviously they didn't have the budget to do this. Something to do with MadMen needing an ocean of zombies or something...I don't know. The commercial tells me they're pretty much the same show. Instead in the show Rick can't even be bothered to close the gate behind him.

Also, the prison has a field. That allows farmer Herschel to do some farming. They didn't even touch on that.

My thoughts:

-Glad Andrea is gone. I see what her point was but hated that character. Part of it was the difference between comic Andrea and show Andrea but most of it was the just the horrible acting and general tv character.

-Carl blasted a kid that was moving closer to him and didn't drop the weapon like he was told. He was at the time resposible for a cripple, his baby sister, and probably a girl he has a crush on as his hormones are starting. Perfectly reasonable response. Especially given his discussion with his dad later.

-I thought the prison assault scene was actually quite good. Bear in mind that Merle had killed a lot of the actual experienced gunmen. Rick's group would know that based on discussions with Merle and Michone and Darryl telling them what happened. The majority of these people were waffly about shooting a zombie or shooting a bitten man. They weren't ready for a hunt through a deep dark dungeon for crazies.

As for Glenn and Maggie missing they were trying to miss. They wanted the people out. Basically they wanted people to know that taking the prison wouldn't be worth the effort. Just like Michonne noted in the previous episode.

-How things ended with the Govenor work for me. First the actor is excellent and seeing the two directions losing those closest to you can have on men in authority is great. I think it's a good call to see where it goes with Rick getting his sanity back and the Gov just going nuts.

-I like that they didn't cliffhanger it. It's gimmicky. I like that the first and second season ended with that on the run feeling where this one felt more upbeat, like there was hope.

-I'm glad Rick is finally back. I'm looking forward to the "leader group" dynamic of next season with Michone, Rick, Glen, Herchel, Tyrese, and Darryl (who I get the feeling is going to be less the yes-man soldier than he was before).

Overall I thought a solid ending to a much better season than season 2.

Is this not a cliff hanger? The Govenor and Martinez are still alive.

So it was ok for Carl to shoot that kid but not ok for Glenn to shoot those gunmen?

Can't agree about this being better finale than last season. I think season 2 had best finale and even season 1 was better.

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
Is this not a cliff hanger? The Govenor and Martinez are still alive.

So it was ok for Carl to shoot that kid but not ok for Glenn to shoot those gunmen?

Can't agree about this being better finale than last season. I think season 2 had best finale and even season 1 was better.

Agreed. It appears a producer/writer was fired and the finale had to be reshot--which might explain the 'patch' feeling I got from the episode.

I will say this--the opening of this episode was terrific---but went downhill from there.

I said season, as in, whole season. I'm not sure anything will top the Season 2 finale. Season 1 didn't touch it in my opinion. Massive brawl at the farm, carl killing zombie shane, michone showing up, epic scene of the barn burning, and rick laying down the new law. Just a great, great episode.

Cliffhangers are generally considered immediate issues that are unresolved. Example being someone is shot but you don't know their dead or the last shot of the season is people barricaded in a room with 50 zombies beating on the door and no means of escape. Things like that are cliff hangers. Your enemy driving off after a mass execution and you bring a town in to live with you aren't exactly immediate issues.

As for the Carl thing you have to be able to see a difference but maybe not so let me lay out what seemed to me to be the thinking based on previous comments the characters have made in show:

The "Plan" was make the prison more trouble than it's worth. They hide the "non-combatants" out in the woods and proceed to set up a situation that causes panic in untrained civilians. Those civilians panic and scatter. Now, actually causing casualties inceases the chance of another attack as their blood will be up for a reason. If they flee and no one is actually killed by the people in the prison it's more likely to have the result it did. That the "army" says to hell with and walks away.

This is quite a bit different than the situation Carl encounters in the woods. Carl is still what people in this world would term a kid. An older teenager (appears 16-19)running through the woods sees a kid, old man, and attractive young girl. Who knows whats going through his head but he didn't drop the gun, he did keep moving forward, and he wasn't listening. If he's just in a panic then maybe no big deal. But if he isn't he's able to get close enough to a kid he can disable physically and be to close for the old man to shoot at him. It's to much of a risk for someone in this world when they are responsible for an object of their affection and their baby sister. A baby sister Carl was willing to go into a Zombie infested bar for to get a picture of her mom.

Yeah I had no problem with Carl shooting the gunman. The guy hadn't dropped his gun, and the smirky look on his face said that he was thinking about the kid and the cripple in front of him. What made it so cold was the absolute lack of emotion expressed by Carl, he did it like he was flushing a turd down the toilet, and that I think is what shocked Herschel the most.

Second most annoying character is finally gone! yay!

I thought The young man that Carl killed, was going to pull a fast one on them. That look in his face was... deceiving.

I'm surprised Hershel is still alive. He'll probably die in season 4. He was suppose to die at the end of season 2 at the far,

If you really think about it, Carl is probably so nuts he makes the Governor look like Jung. He's grown up in a world of zombies, had his dad die and reappear, had to shoot his own zombie mom. He's coockoo.

Frankly they'd all be coockoo pscho killers actually.

Regarding the Governor, I think it's interesting how people complain about predictable and formulaic writing in TV and movies, then complain when they don't get it. Personally, I can do without a Hollywood western showdown between the Governor and whomever at high noon, ending with the bad guy dead. I like this ending. It's more realistic than a showdown, and it turns him into a different kind of menace...a predator prowling around the woods that you might see again...or not.

Looking ahead to next season, supposedly it'll have a few more one-off episodes like the one this season with Rick, Carl and Michonne in the town. I think those are badly needed to create some opportunities for character development and (*gasp*) occasional lighter moments. Although I'm not sure how well that will go over in some corners. There's certainly a chunk of the viewer base that tunes in to see zombies' heads explode, and not people talking.

 gorgon wrote:
Regarding the Governor, I think it's interesting how people complain about predictable and formulaic writing in TV and movies, then complain when they don't get it. Personally, I can do without a Hollywood western showdown between the Governor and whomever at high noon, ending with the bad guy dead. I like this ending. It's more realistic than a showdown, and it turns him into a different kind of menace...a predator prowling around the woods that you might see again...or not.

Looking ahead to next season, supposedly it'll have a few more one-off episodes like the one this season with Rick, Carl and Michonne in the town. I think those are badly needed to create some opportunities for character development and (*gasp*) occasional lighter moments. Although I'm not sure how well that will go over in some corners. There's certainly a chunk of the viewer base that tunes in to see zombies' heads explode, and not people talking.

Actually one offs are an excellent way to have mass zombie killing fun, without threatening to drive them out of their location.


Would be nice to have a series ending where they are in a last stand, and all of the sudden a bunch of troops roll up, and waste the biters ala Sean of the Dead style.
After, these guys aren't listening to radios or anything. Until the Army got within shooting distance they'd have no clue.

Carl seems to be more similar in the comic and tv show - he becomes a stone cold killer in both - what will be interesting is as he gets older and colder and he starts seeing his dad as weak.............

I would hate to see Andrea in the comic gone - TV Andrea not so bothered.

 AgeOfEgos wrote:

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
Is this not a cliff hanger? The Govenor and Martinez are still alive.

So it was ok for Carl to shoot that kid but not ok for Glenn to shoot those gunmen?

Can't agree about this being better finale than last season. I think season 2 had best finale and even season 1 was better.

Agreed. It appears a producer/writer was fired and the finale had to be reshot--which might explain the 'patch' feeling I got from the episode.

I will say this--the opening of this episode was terrific---but went downhill from there.

I heard that. Is that Greg Nicotero? What happened?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@hulksmash Yes they wanted to make the prison not worth it by killing a lot of people.

I've seen more people defend Carl's actions than not and I think that's just another misstep by the writers. I think the authorial intent was for us to be appalled by Carl's murder. To do that they should have had the kid drop the gun completely and then have Carl shoot him.

Also I think the intent of not showing the Prisonteers massacring the Woodburians was because they wanted to show how they are the good guys. However, the reality is if they had slaughtered them the audience wouldn't have begrudged them at all. The Woodburians are making the ill thought out attack and being defeated in open combat. It just would have made Team Rick more awesome.

I think more often than not the show miscalculates how it's audience will react.

whembly wrote:I had a brain fart when Carl shot that kid...

Why did he do it again?

Because he has now become the only character that isn't written as a complete imbecile.

It hasn't been mentioned yet, but what was up with Andrea's getting the pliers scene? How badly written was that? Chatting with a soon to be zombie? Doesn't try to hurry until he actually turns... silly.

@byte

I didn't mention it because I don't care how she left the show. I just wanted her to be done. But yeah, the 15 minute conversation with the dying guy instead of getting loose was ridiculous.

 Hulksmash wrote:
@byte

I didn't mention it because I don't care how she left the show. I just wanted her to be done. But yeah, the 15 minute conversation with the dying guy instead of getting loose was ridiculous.

Agree, glad she's gone. Hated all her screen time. I think your inputs on the season and finale are spot on. It's actually fun to read. Great point on Merle actually winning the day because he killed 9 gun man and the town folk had to be used. Yay Merle!

Yeah I'm not sorry to see Andrea go at all, it's too bad she never got to be Andrea of the comics. They spent so much effort building her into this badass sniper-chick, but in the end we just saw her take a shot off an RV at Daryl, and then proceed to have sex with every badass guy, then waffle, cry and whine, right up to the end. Compare that to how many times Daryl has sniped some man/walker/squirrel with his crossbow.

Byte wrote:It hasn't been mentioned yet, but what was up with Andrea's getting the pliers scene? How badly written was that? Chatting with a soon to be zombie? Doesn't try to hurry until he actually turns... silly.

I feel that scene was perfectly representative of the entire show from ep.2 onward.

 azazel the cat wrote:
I feel that scene was perfectly representative of the entire show from ep.2 onward.

Ain’t that the truth. They should call the show The Walking Idiots, as the people on this show are such morons that it makes it impossible to watch.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 azazel the cat wrote:
I feel that scene was perfectly representative of the entire show from ep.2 onward.

Ain’t that the truth. They should call the show The Walking Idiots, as the people on this show are such morons that it makes it impossible to watch.

Nah. It's a good show IMO. I look forward to it each season.

Byte wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 azazel the cat wrote:
I feel that scene was perfectly representative of the entire show from ep.2 onward.

Ain’t that the truth. They should call the show The Walking Idiots, as the people on this show are such morons that it makes it impossible to watch.

Nah. It's a good show IMO. I look forward to it each season.

Every single character, except for the kid, carries an idiot ball.

Hooray! Dead Andrea!

BTW, what kind of cuffs did they use that can be snipped with a pair of pliers?

Great ending, I liked what they did with the Guv. Looking forwards to season 4.

 azazel the cat wrote:

Byte wrote:Nah. It's a good show IMO. I look forward to it each season.

Every single character, except for the kid, carries an idiot ball.

I think you mean the characters are portrayed as actually being human and having to deal with this mess.

Everyone makes mistakes, though admittedly Andrea's mistake was inexcusable and just plain bad writing.

DeathReaper wrote:

 azazel the cat wrote:

Byte wrote:Nah. It's a good show IMO. I look forward to it each season.

Every single character, except for the kid, carries an idiot ball.

I think you mean the characters are portrayed as actually being human and having to deal with this mess.

Everyone makes mistakes, though admittedly Andrea's mistake was inexcusable and just plain bad writing.

Rick's constant mistakes are so frequent that even his 10-year-old son was able to call him on it. The writing concerning everyone's inability to handle any given situation almost two years into the Z-times is now inexcusably lazy.