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Meh, not blood thirsty. And she wasn't part of my list of people that I'd happily send off I liked Beth. I didn't feel like it was forced. It is a theme that if you're a shining light, moral compass, or upbeat you're dead.

Dale - Moral Compass
Axel - Relentlessly upbeat
Herschel - Moral Compass
Bob - Relentlessly Upbeat
Beth - Shining light/Upbeat (season 4-5 at least)

She was walking wounded unfortunately. I wish she'd lasted longer but I don't feel like it was forced. I feel like her death will impact the entire group and the audience. Something the death of most of the people I wanted out wouldn't do at all.

It's the apocalypse. People die. And I'd say that their ratings the last two seasons really reflect that Gimple and Kirkman are doing a bang up job.

Yeah I get that - although Tyreese is a moral compass as well?

Its been a really good season so far but this death just seemed more pointless than normal?

 cincydooley wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
I still don't quite understand why the dead character stabbed Dawn and basically committed suicide as there was now hope rather than earlier when there was a lot less?

I don't actually think Dawn meant to kill Beth. When it went all slow-mo I'm pretty sure she was mouthing that it was an accident (not that it mattered to Daryl or Rick).

Having seen it a second time, I think her words were "I didn't mean to..."

Yeah, but you did, Dawn. That and plenty of other things. Enjoy the air-conditioned forehead.

 Hulksmash wrote:
She was walking wounded unfortunately. I wish she'd lasted longer but I don't feel like it was forced. I feel like her death will impact the entire group and the audience. Something the death of most of the people I wanted out wouldn't do at all.

The fact that her death was so impactful is a tribute to the writers and actor, and how much they've elevated the character. A couple seasons ago, her death would have been met with more of a shrug. Since then, we've grown to really like Beth and recognize her unique strength.

As the previews showed, the group is going to be emotionally wrecked by this, which is something considering how emotionally damaged they all are. It's a great motivation for them to look for a different kind of life, and move to the next phase of the story.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Yeah I get that - although Tyreese is a moral compass as well?

Its been a really good season so far but this death just seemed more pointless than normal?

tyreese has a bit of a character arc though, he mentions thinking about the incident in the cabin with the canibal and the baby,

I think either his arc will see him become more ruthless, harder/ect or he will give up or sacrifice shimself and die.


there really does seems to be a theme of nice/soft people getting the axe.



I think they did beths death really well, I knew it was a possiblity but I didnt actually KNOW it was gonna happen till it happened.

I was actually a bit dissapointed as I was hoping beths arc would make her into more of a badass, and I though she was actually going to kill the cop lady and get away with it, so when I saw beths head explode, it was quite the shock.

Yep. It's a testament to the writers that after season 2 Beth we could care about her death. And the group is absolutely going to be rocked by the death of the 3rd youngest member and only relative left from the oldest members of the group that isn't part of Ricks family. Especially doubled up on the no DC information.

And I wouldn't say Tyreese is a moral compass yet (not sure he'll get there). Tyreese feels like more of a moral wimp. His attitude is basically pacificistic. That's not the same as a moral compass. Dale was a moral compass for the time when maybe society as it stood could be upheld. Herscel was a moral compass for what the world had actually turned into. Tyreese doesn't even come close to filling those shoes.

Well, Tyreese is still figuring things out, I think. Clearly he's not comfortable with the person he's become, or at least what the world is trying to make him become. Meanwhile (and in contrast), Rick in particular is increasingly comfortable with what he's become. So the need is there for someone to remind the group not to lose its humanity, but I'm not sure that Tyreese has figured out his "voice" yet. Maybe the exchange plan was the beginning of it.

I think Rick's reaction to Dawn demanding Noah shows his humanity is still there. It's just narrowly focussed now. He'll help individuals (reasonable) and he'll do anything for his group. He even, once he decided not to kill them, was treating the cops he caught with respect and kindness (for the situation) until the one hurt a member of his family and tried to escape (thereby endangering more of his family). Rick is insane by our standards but a truly stand-up fella and distrubingly sane individual by the standards of the world he lives in.

And yeah, maybe Tyreese gets his voice at some point. I was just pointing out that right now he's nowhere near a moral compass for the group. The closest would be Daryl but he's not so much a compass as a moral checkpoint and even then him and Rick are on the same page. 1-strike and you're out.

I was actually disappointed Noah is the only one from the hospital that seemed to go with them.

But then again, even as a slave, some of them still had it pretty decent at the hospital...or at least better than in the wild.

Wasn't there supposed to be a spin off show? Maybe it'll be related to the hospital group.

I figured it would take place on the west coast for a dog ugly different perspective, but I have no idea and haven't read/heard anything about it other than it's a thing.

My first reaction after the episode was pretty much:

"Well, that made the last 5 episodes a bit pointless then, didn't it?"

I much preferred the Carol-blaze-of-glory, causing Beth to pick up the torch theory, to be honest.

Now for the fething stupid break

 Compel wrote:
My first reaction after the episode was pretty much:

"Well, that made the last 5 episodes a bit pointless then, didn't it?"

I much preferred the Carol-blaze-of-glory, causing Beth to pick up the torch theory, to be honest.

Ditto.

Having not watch any of the new season (I'm one of those elusive types who actually waits for the DvD release), and well dropping in on the latest page, I can say that I'm not surprised at Beth's death. Whilst some comic characters are living, I suspect that they're easier to kill off than longer running ones (well bar Dale and Andrea). Beth died pretty soon into the comics along with the rest of the Greene family (bar Maggie), so her hanging on so long pretty didn't really lift that noose around her neck. Like I said though, the writers seem to have a thing for throwing away characters that should have lived, so maybe we won't see those that shouldn't have being used as sacrificial lambs. Its nice to see how they could have developed were circumstances different, and well I can certainly agree that the comics can be much more trigger happy with the deaths. ...Though I generally prefer the tv series much more than the comics as the character development is much greater (if the tv series went through things like the comics they could cut down whole seasons to a few episodes. All that fluff is what makes me like the tv series more).

I'm liking how they introduced a certain character later on and are only developing his arc now. I'm sorting of wondering where that will go, given that he formed a romantic relationship, whereas I don't really see that with either of the female characters he did in the comics. ...Nor do I see one of them going out like she did. Oh the crypticness.



So if we're already on the D.C. story arc, just how long till a particular group of "saviors" turn up and Rick can get back to his gardening?

Actually, "Beth" didn't exist in the comics - she has no direct comic book counterpart.

There was Lacey, an elder sister to Maggie, and there the twin sisters Rachel and Susie, the youngest of the kids. There were also two sons, Arnold and Shawn.

Lacey died before they left the farm. The Twins at the prison. Arnold died at the farm with Lacey when the walkers in the barn broke out, and Shawn died before Rick arrived.

Ah right (looks at Wiki), I was thinking of Patricia, Otis' ex-girlfriend.

 Wyrmalla wrote:
So if we're already on...

You should probably have the rest of that behind spoiler tags, as per the mods' instructions regarding comic book info.

Anyhoo...(comic spoilers ahead)

Kevin Durand would be awesome. I like that guy

So....DON'T BE A MORAL COMPASS!!!!!!

Great episode last night with lots of questions to be asked and things to cover in the next few weeks.

I felt not a whole lot happened myself, but there were a few mysteries.

[/spoiler]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Two characters in two episodes??

If your main takeaway from that stellar episode was "nothing much happened," I'm not sure what to say. Maybe I should repeat what I've said many times in this thread -- it's a character-driven drama.

Anyway, IMO both Chad Coleman and the director really brought it in this episode.

 Sinful Hero wrote:
I felt not a whole lot happened myself, but there were a few mysteries.

Spoiler:

Who attacked the compound?
Why was there a truck full of limbless zombies with X's on their heads?
...
Why didn't they do more with the episode? Honestly, it's like the only thing that happened was Tyreese got bit. That's exciting and all, but couldn't they have done a little more or something?

[/spoiler]

Yeah, good catch on the graffiti. That's probably a strong clue.

I was wondering what that graffiti said. Thanks for that.
Comic spoilers in the next spoiler-

@gorgon
Personally, I don't watch the tv show for the character drama. I feel that sort of thing is better captured in written form(not saying it cant be done well, but things like motivations can be more easily conveyed other ways).
I mostly just watch the show for zombie smashing, and how the characters react to the situations they're in.

I don't know I just didn't care for that episode. It felt like a filler episode that they had to sacrifice a character in to have something happen. It's too bad Tyreese will never become the badass from the comic now.

As for being a moral compass being a death sentence it certainly seems that way. I'm worried Glenn will be next. He seems like one of the few left that fit that role.

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
I don't know I just didn't care for that episode. It felt like a filler episode that they had to sacrifice a character in to have something happen. It's too bad Tyreese will never become the badass from the comic now.

As for being a moral compass being a death sentence it certainly seems that way. I'm worried Glenn will be next. He seems like one of the few left that fit that role.

Oh I don't know about that. IIRC Glenn made it pretty clear that he would have killed Dawn for what she did to Beth, and that it didn't matter if they killed Dawn or not.

I'm fine with it being a character drama and all that. - In fact, I pretty do darn enjoy it.

However, spending time on what is basically character development of a dead character, I find to be completely pointless.

Ok, sure, give a send-off or whatever but ultimately, the interesting characters are the ones that are still alive.

It's like my opinion of all the Beth episodes in the first half. Ok, sure, they were interesting for a while, yay, interesting character development for Beth. But, basically, at the end of it all, everyone involved (except for Noah, who weaved in and out), was dead.

So, well, what was learned from it for the remaining characters? Nothing.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
I don't know I just didn't care for that episode. It felt like a filler episode that they had to sacrifice a character in to have something happen. It's too bad Tyreese will never become the badass from the comic now.

As for being a moral compass being a death sentence it certainly seems that way. I'm worried Glenn will be next. He seems like one of the few left that fit that role.

Oh I don't know about that. IIRC Glenn made it pretty clear that he would have killed Dawn for what she did to Beth, and that it didn't matter if they killed Dawn or not.

That may save his life!