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Nice to see Trevor Philips making an appearance though.

 filbert wrote:
Nice to see Trevor Philips making an appearance though.

That's all I could think of when I saw him on the screen.

Super weak episode all around. Ninja fast roadblocks? Loud fights and conversations with no walkers showing up? Contrived cliffhanger/actor contract negation scene?

It had it all, I guess....

 Alpharius wrote:

Abraham (possibly)

That would be a really, *really*, poor way for that character to go given the way things go in the comics.

 jmurph wrote:
Super weak episode all around. Ninja fast roadblocks? Loud fights and conversations with no walkers showing up? Contrived cliffhanger/actor contract negation scene?

It had it all, I guess....

Sasha noted something important.

The roadblocks weren't all being done by the same people. It stands to reason that given Negan's crew seemed to be watching both The Hilltop and Alexandria(remember the previous episode how they claimed Carol was lying, since they saw her leave Alexandria?) they knew there was a bit of interaction between the two camps. If you saw an RV moving out from Alexandria it's a good bet it's headed to the only other camp that the Alexandrians have interacted with, The Hilltop.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 jmurph wrote:
Super weak episode all around. Ninja fast roadblocks? Loud fights and conversations with no walkers showing up? Contrived cliffhanger/actor contract negation scene?

It had it all, I guess....

Sasha noted something important.

The roadblocks weren't all being done by the same people. It stands to reason that given Negan's crew seemed to be watching both The Hilltop and Alexandria(remember the previous episode how they claimed Carol was lying, since they saw her leave Alexandria?) they knew there was a bit of interaction between the two camps. If you saw an RV moving out from Alexandria it's a good bet it's headed to the only other camp that the Alexandrians have interacted with, The Hilltop.

Yeah, it wasn't that they were fast but that they have a ridiculous number of people.

And like we saw in "Same Boat", they do have radios and pretty damn good radio discipline.

Well it can't be a woman can it? I think I recall Negan saying "He's taking it like a champ".

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Well it can't be a woman can it? I think I recall Negan saying "He's taking it like a champ".

I think he said "you're," but I'm not certain.

I'll check when I get home from work tonight.

I thought it was you're.

 Ratius wrote:
I havent read the comic book angles and obviously Ricks crew have been in terrible sitations before (VS a tank with the govenor and chained up over the bath tub at the end of Terminus) but how on Earth do they get out of this one?!

Networking.

The Saviours are too powerful for Alexandria alone to defeat, but think about it. The Saviours terrorise many different communities. There are now surviving 3 communities on the show so far, Alexandria, the Hilltop and "The Kingdom" (not yet named or seen on the show, but its where Morgan and Carol are being escorted to).

Die rick grimes die.

Wyrmalla wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

Abraham (possibly)

That would be a really, *really*, poor way for that character to go given the way things go in the comics.

Spoiler:

It'd be more appropriate for him to go like he does in the comics. The big soldier guy who'll be a real asset in the war to come goes out leading a patrol. "Ooh look baddies! Get some! *Thunk*

Arrow to the head out of nowhere. Dead within a panel.

Heh, even the writer didn't see it coming when he wrote it. I'm not sure the Tv series would be prepared to go that route though. They tend to build up their deaths a lot more. That'd be an awesome scene if they did it though.

I'm not sure how caught up you are but...

Wyrmalla wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

Abraham (possibly)

That would be a really, *really*, poor way for that character to go given the way things go in the comics.

It'd be more appropriate for him to go like he does in the comics. The big soldier guy who'll be a real asset in the war to come goes out leading a patrol. "Ooh look baddies! Get some! *Thunk*

Arrow to the head out of nowhere. Dead within a panel.

Heh, even the writer didn't see it coming when he wrote it. I'm not sure the Tv series would be prepared to go that route though. They tend to build up their deaths a lot more. That'd be an awesome scene if they did it though.

On the contrary, I think Abraham getting the bat is more heroic and fitting for a selfless former soldier like him. He squared up to Negan defiantly looking him in the eye, like he was daring Negan to pick him. I think Abraham wanted to be executed, he wanted to make that sacrifice to protect his friends.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

Wyrmalla wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

Abraham (possibly)

That would be a really, *really*, poor way for that character to go given the way things go in the comics.

It'd be more appropriate for him to go like he does in the comics. The big soldier guy who'll be a real asset in the war to come goes out leading a patrol. "Ooh look baddies! Get some! *Thunk*

Arrow to the head out of nowhere. Dead within a panel.

Heh, even the writer didn't see it coming when he wrote it. I'm not sure the Tv series would be prepared to go that route though. They tend to build up their deaths a lot more. That'd be an awesome scene if they did it though.

On the contrary, I think Abraham getting the bat is more heroic and fitting for a selfless former soldier like him. He squared up to Negan defiantly looking him in the eye, like he was daring Negan to pick him. I think Abraham wanted to be executed, he wanted to make that sacrifice to protect his friends.

And that's why Negan won't give it to him. He wanted to make them suffer. Not make a martyr out of one of them. Bashing the head in of one of the weaker characters(Glenn) will fill that role perfectly.

That applies to Glenn too, possibly. Glenn tried to intervene when Negan threatened Maggie and received a beating for it. Glenn would be just as much of a martyr as Abraham. Though if Negan wanted to specifically hurt Maggie, killing Glenn would be the way to do it.

Out of all of them, Eugene is likely the weakest character.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Something to tide everyone over till September.

Although I truly think it's Abraham...what if it was Maggie?? Do a 180 from the comics? Totally doable. They're saying its a truly beloved character. Eugene and Abraham are only loved characters as a dynamic duo. If they aren't both there, the one left won't work.
Rick and Carl are both 99% safe based on the "other eye" comment.
Daryl
Glenn
Maggie
Michone
Abraham

It's one of those 5. Anyone else won't have the effect. And even my belief in it being Abraham is shaky because he and Eugene both only exist as a team.

 Alpharius wrote:

Wyrmalla wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

Abraham (possibly)

That would be a really, *really*, poor way for that character to go given the way things go in the comics.

Spoiler:

It'd be more appropriate for him to go like he does in the comics. The big soldier guy who'll be a real asset in the war to come goes out leading a patrol. "Ooh look baddies! Get some! *Thunk*

Arrow to the head out of nowhere. Dead within a panel.

Heh, even the writer didn't see it coming when he wrote it. I'm not sure the Tv series would be prepared to go that route though. They tend to build up their deaths a lot more. That'd be an awesome scene if they did it though.

I'm not sure how caught up you are but...

Spoiler:

...Denise has already had "Abraham's Death".

Argh!

I'm a season behind. :(

I liked it. The entire episode was a pucker factor for me. The sheer effort to impress Alexandria with the hopelessness of their situation was very well done. Not the best episode of the season but up there. Though the entire second half was excellent TV.

As for the final scene they said on the Talking Dead none of the characters know who got the bat actually. While they filmed the entire scene there Neegan even though they were off camera (something that apparently doesn't happen, normally the people off camera would take the night off on most shows/movies) they weren't there for the actual bat scene since it's shot first person it was just Jeffery Dean Morgan.

I'd also like to say that I think the casting is excellent again. The Gov. was amazing and Neegan is definitely going to fly fairly high above him in my opinion. The dude they got to play him is just so damned likable that the almost cult like following for the crazy dude seems reasonable.

And I think that Eugene got Lucille'd. You would expect Abraham to take it like a champ. Rick isn't going to get hit. Aaron won't have any impact for Rick. And I don't think it's Glenn or Daryl. To much teasing with Glenn over the season and Daryl would be a tough sell to the audience but it's possible.

I think it's Eugene based on the Talking Dead conversation about how this starts the new story. Eugene impacts most members of the group as he's been there "kid" that is finally growing up. It also hurts Rick in the sense that he gets jolted out of not using all his possible resources as he doesn't seem to really think along the lines of knowledge and expansion anymore. But if not then Daryl or Glenn. I think Abraham is needed for a bit of levity and the actor playing him is solid. Plus it'll make the upcoming "war" make more sense if the "good" guys have a veteran soldier on their side.

I guess I am more skeptical that they even know who got the bat. Cast doesn't know so the writers can always change/fill it in later after contract negotiations, etc.

I don't put much by the "beloved" character angle. They would say that about any of the ensemble. All it really tells you is that it isn't random schmuck #3.

The episode just felt really stretched out and contrived to me. Carol's angle is super unbelievable and really erodes some good development. And while it introduced another faction (good thing), they looked ridiculous.

The road blocks had some issues. I am just going to assume they blocked all the roads to Hilltop, though it seemed odd that they couldn't just double back and pick off the smaller initial crew from the flank. In the open roadway, it would have been a slaughter from the higher treeline.

The first roadblock was the same group as the tree fall. Presumably they drove there after the group left the first site.

The numbers where enormous, and it seemed awfully convenient they had their circle right where the crew were walking through the woods. Yet, despite that, they all seemed to have bats, not guns out, in the final scene which means some quickly applied gun fire would have been disastrous. I guess they were relying on raw numbers? But then you get into the same question of where have they all been, how did they move in unnoticed, etc.

And then why not just ambush them at the first roadblock if they had an eye on the group anyway?

I was also kind of surprised that all this tree cutting, gunfire, giant fires, screaming, etc. didn't draw a herd. That would have been fun!

I think the reason not to grab them in the opening ambush is relatively out in the open. Neegan says "We went thru a lot of effort so you can see what we're capable of". He's a longer run thinker than anyone they've run into before except for Deanna.

Essentially this is a group that's probably killed more Saviors that everybody else combined. But he NEEDS them to work for him so he can continue to build his empire. And if they can be brought in he's got another batch of tough mothers for future groups they run into. So he's doing everything he can to hit them over the head with his power and essentially hoping it sticks.

For the majority of people it does stick obviously. I think that the show of force has kinda broken Rick at the moment (its intent). That said Neegan should kill him but he won't because he sees a broken leader. And most other broken leaders just cave and he doesn't know Rick. Once away and incensed with the death of one of his people so brutally it's going to be game on with a proper understanding of the risks from Rick's point of view.

Also didn't mind Carol. It's a messed up kind of thinking that comes from all that she has endured. I liked that it took her break to finally allow Morgan to stop being an idiot about killing.

A herd would have been fun but I think between the mega herd going down and I'd bet Saviors out killing walkers all around while they set this us there weren't enough zombies close enough to create a herd.

The group that Morgan runs into in the body armor are a new group right? From the comics? Are they goodies or baddies?

I liked the sense of desperation you could see Rick feel at the end, he had this sort of shell shocked look when he realised how many/badass the saviours could be.
My issues overall is that if the saviours are as big and nasty/powerful as they seem why have we only seen them in the last 3 episodes of season 6?

 Ratius wrote:
The group that Morgan runs into in the body armor are a new group right? From the comics? Are they goodies or baddies?

I liked the sense of desperation you could see Rick feel at the end, he had this sort of shell shocked look when he realised how many/badass the saviours could be.
My issues overall is that if the saviours are as big and nasty/powerful as they seem why have we only seen them in the last 3 episodes of season 6?

I thought they were the Hilltop guys...

Me too but I read somewhere they are called "The Kingdom"?

Nah, Hilltop doesn't really have fighters per se. They obviously trade with them (hence the spears) but they aren't from there.

As for the size of the Saviors I feel like they are simply expanding slowly in that direction. They weren't to far off from eventually finding Alexandria. But a patrol getting wiped out and an entire forward staging area being gutted might have sped them up a bit. Plus they were obviously dealing with a mini "insurrection" in the form of the librarians. Maybe they didn't have the numbers to tackle Alexandria safely until now. Notice that they seemed to be moving people toward Alexandria and setting this up for a bit.

I feel like Neegan is a planner. Rick has gotten thru on being better on his feet and luckier than his opponents. He's going to need to grow as a leader to beat Neegan.

Kirkman, the creator, said something interesting on Talking Dead. He pointed out that if you just start watching the show in season 5 or so Rick looks insane and you might actually sympathize with the Saviors. Also that if we'd watch Neegan from day one like we had Rick it would be a totally different perspective. Kinda fun and true.

A lot of the chatter has been about who got killed but I havent seen much mentioned about knocking off one of the female cast.
Is this sticking to the comics or are the writers playing "it safe" i.e easier to beat a manly man to death than a woman?

whembly wrote:

 Ratius wrote:
The group that Morgan runs into in the body armor are a new group right? From the comics? Are they goodies or baddies?

I liked the sense of desperation you could see Rick feel at the end, he had this sort of shell shocked look when he realised how many/badass the saviours could be.
My issues overall is that if the saviours are as big and nasty/powerful as they seem why have we only seen them in the last 3 episodes of season 6?

I thought they were the Hilltop guys...

Ratius wrote:Me too but I read somewhere they are called "The Kingdom"?

Yep. It's a new group referred to as, "The Kingdom".

I disagree!

In no way would we ever think Negan is anything other than what he is - and that's a charismatic lunatic!

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Although I truly think it's Abraham...what if it was Maggie?? Do a 180 from the comics? Totally doable.

Except then they just had a sick, pregnant woman's skull smashed in. The comic and show do horrible things...but they'd be facing some backlash from that, methinks. If you're going to wreck that relationship, then you go with Glenn for a cleaner solution. Plus, they do seem to be setting Maggie up for her destiny as in the comics.

 Hulksmash wrote:
And I think that Eugene got Lucille'd.

He's very important to the stuff that comes later, though. Still, the one thing that gives me pause is that he gave Rick the instructions for making ammo. I don't remember anything like that in the books...Eugene makes it happen because he's still there. Could be a red herring, or it may be the workaround for his departure.

Clearly, it's a workaround and a nod to those who know his role that NOBODY IS SAFE! COME BACK NEXT SEASON!

Morgan had to come around at some point- otherwise he comes across as an oddly naïve ineffective type like Tyrese, Gabriele, etc. Which also was bothering me that they all also happened to share other significant features....

At this point, I don't think we have enough info to not potentially sympathize with Negan. Sure he's brutal. But he seems to do it for a calculated reason to minimize unnecessary conflict. And Rick is pretty brutal himself. At this point, if a group had butchered a bunch of sleeping Alexandrians, I am pretty sure they would have been killed in short order by Rick. But, of course, they will pile on the negatives traits, excesses, etc. to make Negan a true "bad guy". Because otherwise there isn't really any reason to fight him.