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(comic talk only in spoiler tags)

So we're back and a pretty slow episode. The "negotiations" all seemed very brief and perfunctory. The bomb gathering and zombie mow down was fun, but seemed kind of pointless, other than to give them some demolitions. The new group at the end was pretty cool (sneaky like ninjas, apparently!) and I am hoping that the food was going to gain their support....

 jmurph wrote:
So we're back and a pretty slow episode. The "negotiations" all seemed very brief and perfunctory. The bomb gathering and zombie mow down was fun, but seemed kind of pointless, other than to give them some demolitions. The new group at the end was pretty cool (sneaky like ninjas, apparently!) and I am hoping that the food was going to gain their support....

I'm really, really, really, really hoping that this wasn't the intro for a certain faction that we've yet to see in the show but have seen in the comics...

Also, I loved the Slice-Capades down the highway. It felt very much like "Dead Rising".

Don't know wtf they're doing here. This new group has no analogue in the comics.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Don't know wtf they're doing here. This new group has no analogue in the comics.

Comic talk coming...

Comic talk spoilers:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Don't know wtf they're doing here. This new group has no analogue in the comics.

Comic talk coming...

Spoiler:

Aside from the lack of Skinsuits, they seem to be not unlike the Whispers.

I don't know Kan...

I imagine he was smiling because he just found his army. They did look heavily armed, though I don't recall how many guns they had.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Don't know wtf they're doing here. This new group has no analogue in the comics.

Comic talk coming...

Spoiler:

Aside from the lack of Skinsuits, they seem to be not unlike the Whispers.

Well, that's kind of a big clue that they aren't them.



I think what the writers are doing here is giving Rick an ample number of foot soldiers. They've built up the show Saviors to have SO many resources that it's hard to believe that Alexandria and the Hilltop could ever hope to fight them. Especially since show Alexandria is weaponless. Both communities have been portrayed as fairly small in the show, so they probably felt they needed to add a large Kingdom and some new allies not in the comics to even things out.

Yeah, upon further reflection, he probably was thinking that 'here's a whole lot of people I can convince to join up'.

Also, we don't think that Tara is going to eventually 'betray' the All Female Fishing Village That Has Lots of Guns too?

I mean, betray in the sense of 'talk about them' an then hopefully negotiate with them to get them to sign up too...

 gorgon wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Don't know wtf they're doing here. This new group has no analogue in the comics.

Comic talk coming...

Spoiler:

Aside from the lack of Skinsuits, they seem to be not unlike the Whispers.

Well, that's kind of a big clue that they aren't them.

Spoiler:

Besides, how many times do we see the Whisperers engage in the books WITH guns and WITHOUT a mob of walkers to screen them? Actually, I'm not sure what it is about them that reminds you of the Whisperers beyond possibly a female leader.

The fact that the midseason finale had this new group spying on Alexandria?

I think what the writers are doing here is giving Rick an ample number of foot soldiers. They've built up the show Saviors to have SO many resources that it's hard to believe that Alexandria and the Hilltop could ever hope to fight them. Especially since show Alexandria is weaponless. Both communities have been portrayed as fairly small in the show, so they probably felt they needed to add a large Kingdom and some new allies not in the comics to even things out.

Call it a hunch or maybe just wishing, but Kirkman's been very cagey about this particular group in the show and when it would happen.

Well, IIRC in the books

 jmurph wrote:
So we're back and a pretty slow episode. The "negotiations" all seemed very brief and perfunctory. The bomb gathering and zombie mow down was fun, but seemed kind of pointless, other than to give them some demolitions. The new group at the end was pretty cool (sneaky like ninjas, apparently!) and I am hoping that the food was going to gain their support....

Well it was missing Neegan except "radioed in" so yeah dull sums it up.

The Bomb stuff was out of nowhere and the car stuff was a fun diversion from the dullness and earnestnees of all the nice people wanting Rick to use them as canon fodder (lets face thats all they will be)

That new group was as sneaky as a Zombie about to chomp on a non main cast emmber - so yeah pretty damn sneaky.

Apart from that - well Rosita is still hot.

I would agree that they have written the Saviours as more and more one dimensional - easy but dull.

Loved the whole yeah they killed 4 of us aren't they evil (having killed about 60 of them including about 30 in a pre-emptive sneak attack).

Yeah, the diplomacy was laughably bad. "The Saviors are bad, we need to take care of them."

"But you were already supposed to do that and took a bunch of our stuff! Now it's even worse!"

That Hilltop guy is a schmuck, but he made a really good point. Kinda the same way for the Kingdom- what is their incentive to breach the agreement and put so many at risk?

To be fair, Hilltop Guy gave Rick and Co really really bad information.

There's no way at all he couldn't have known that Neagan had satellite camps etc

Looking forward to the rest of the season now.

Because it really is NOT a good deal.

In the TV show, the 'protection' the Saviors offer is minimal to non-existent.

It IS straight up intimidation/extortion/etc.

And on top of that, the penalties for breaking whatever rule they say is usually the random death and/or torture/maiming of someone.

Combine that with the huge 'cost' of this 'protection' and, yeah, there's a real good incentive for getting rid of them.

Also - "yeah we completely surrendered all of our weapons to them and gave up" but now we need you guys to supply all the manpower and the weapons.

They really seem to spin the story threads of the Walking Dead out as along as possible but don't really seem to develop the characters either even though they have too many main cast who don't really have much to do.

The two of us watched four episodes of tv shows last night: Black Sails, Lucifer, then Walking Dead, then Lucifer.

That was three great episodes and one plodding pretty dull one with some fun moments like the cars.

Hopefully we will get a Negan episode next week to make it more interesting/amusing - I mean his wannabee is ok but still a a wannabee.

I can't see this storyline lasting beyond the end of season, The Saviours are just going to be slaughtered in a big fight with lots of no names getting slaughtered and then back to where they started.

 Alpharius wrote:
Because it really is NOT a good deal.

In the TV show, the 'protection' the Saviors offer is minimal to non-existent.

It IS straight up intimidation/extortion/etc.

And on top of that, the penalties for breaking whatever rule they say is usually the random death and/or torture/maiming of someone.

Combine that with the huge 'cost' of this 'protection' and, yeah, there's a real good incentive for getting rid of them.

And what "breaking a rule" is also seems pretty random and arbitrary too. An "all out war" is inevitable I'd venture to say...

They've also woven in (at the end of the first half of the season) signs of dissent within the Saviours, so Rick has that, even if he doesn't realise it.

It only takes a relative few to be peeved enough to turn their coats, and they'll carry along with them those generally unhappy or mildly disgruntled - we're seeing only true Survivors at this stage - those who've been able to make the hard decisions and keep going through thick and thin.

That suggests a certain pragmatic approach - and I daresay not being at the behest of Neagan's moods is a good thing for survival.

Well, Negan's flippant brutal behavior is a whole 'nother inconsitency that doesn't make sense. Given that he hasn't shown any exceptional abilities on his own, it seems odd that a group of merciless strongmen wouldn't quickly turn on him. Every tyrant knows you treat your best warriors well. And even then, it's not always enough. At least Dwight seems to be a nod to this. And while he also seems alot more logically motivated than Negan. I would expect he would actually make a better leader and would have deposed him long ago. I can't imagine groups forced into obedience at gunpoint and having lost loved ones/friends to their "glorious leader", as well as wives and daughters, would be that hard to pursuade so long as the new guy can keep the food and water flowing.

In the comics Negan is a bigger more physically imposing guy. I like Jeffrey Dean Morgan and I think he was cast because how he played The Comedian but he just seems a lot smaller since that role. Usually a leather jacket makes you look bigger but somehow it's making him smaller.

I think the role he had before Negan had him shrinking down quite a bit.

He'll probably be a bit bigger 'next season' - but to be honest I'm already tired of TV Negan already.

Which is too bad,

 Alpharius wrote:
I think the role he had before Negan had him shrinking down quite a bit.

He'll probably be a bit bigger 'next season' - but to be honest I'm already tired of TV Negan already.

Which is too bad,

Spoiler:

because his next arc in the comics is so good!

Er, sorry, I wasn't too specific, was I?

So...



I'm still hopeful the The Walking Dead's creators and JDM can make TV Negan a lot better too.

Theres not a lot JDM can do about it, besides bulking up.

He's the right actor, hamstrung by sub-par writing. He nails the charisma and personality of Negan I think.

He had a role where he got down to like 130
Lbs for it. The problem is that he also has an actual farm her works. He's unlikely to bulk back up to the days of supernatural/comedian/the losers. It was my one concern of his for the role.

At least it feels like we are going to be moving forward week to week now.

 Alpharius wrote:
Er, sorry, I wasn't too specific, was I?

So...

Spoiler:

Negan's 'redemption' (at least so far) in the Whisperers arc is something else!

I'm still hopeful the The Walking Dead's creators and JDM can make TV Negan a lot better too.

Hmn,

I think they won't bother doing much if any backstory for Negan and be surprised if he/the Saviours last beyond this season.

When he is on screen its all great fun but as others have said a Strong Man style leader has to be the Strong Man - any more reversals and one of the other proto Negan's is likely to make a challenge.

I think they will just stick with Negan and his bad men (and very occasional woman) and the oppressed Saviours who will be there to fill the holes that the conflict will make n the populations.

Depends a bit on how the new group work in the show.

Yeah, part of the problem is that the show seems afraid to have any real morality debates and so the group has to be portrayed as always good/right and bad guys as clearly bad and need to be killed. Which is a shame as real people don't really work that way and are often many shades of grey.

The Governor is a perfect example of the ham fisted approach. They had a great opportunity to show him as a man doing what he thinks necessary to protect those around him. Brutal, and maybe misguided and cruel, but with a protective streak. But no, needed a stupid plot zombie and he had to shoot back to twirling mustache evil and public decapitation for reasons.

Likewise, Rick and crews cold blooded extermination of a Saviors outpost was pretty much glossed over as necessary because they are all bad. And subsequently justified in show by having every Savior inexplicably loyal to a bombastic, brutal, strongman and showing lots of scummy behavior so they can be offed without consequence.

Well in this latest comic: