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GWS Share price is flat today. A quick msearch revealed no mention of the judgement but we will see if this gets picked up on tomorrow when London wakes up. That said GWS is a fairly low traded share so there might not be the interest in it.

Well see over the next few days whether the BBC or some other other outlet picks up the Story.

Do their shareholders even know about this? If they have to make a statement it will be something saying that they defended their fortress walls as evidenced by the fact they were awarded damages. They're not going to shout from the rooftops to advertise the number of points which CHS, and now all manufacturers, are allowed to use freely, and the disparity between the $25,000 damages and whatever silly amount they threw at the case.

 mattyrm wrote:

 Enigwolf wrote:
Wow. Just, wow. I wonder if GW's stock price is going to drop because of this.

Heres hoping, money talks, and it may be the only way that the seemingly blinkered dolts at the top might actually see the light.

Nomad sold enough shares to trigger a regulatory filing. But they have been selling for a while.

Very happy with this outcome.

With this hopefully more 3rd party companies producing accessories and other items can spread without fear of the GW legal threats, the more open competition may actually push better policies and models from GW.

czakk wrote:
Well, it is a press release ... so grain of salt and all that.

I doubt a respectable law firm would lie in a press release about a case.

Obviously they left out the details of what GW won, but what they have said CHS won must be correct.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
Do their shareholders even know about this? If they have to make a statement it will be something saying that they defended their fortress walls as evidenced by the fact they were awarded damages. They're not going to shout from the rooftops to advertise the number of points which CHS, and now all manufacturers, are allowed to use freely, and the disparity between the $25,000 damages and whatever silly amount they threw at the case.

They do know and they do a lot more research than just GW management feeds and AGM's.

Including continued use of GW's 9 registered trademarks, which seems like an especially important nugget.

 Kilkrazy wrote:

czakk wrote:
Well, it is a press release ... so grain of salt and all that.

I doubt a respectable law firm would lie in a press release about a case.

Obviously they left out the details of what GW won, but what they have said CHS won must be correct.

I'm not saying they'd lie. But they will put the most positive aspects of the story first and paint their client in the best light possible while remaining in the realm of truthfulness.

Do we have a link to a list of which items were ruled in Chapterhouse's favor and which in GW's favor?

czakk wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:

czakk wrote:
Well, it is a press release ... so grain of salt and all that.

I doubt a respectable law firm would lie in a press release about a case.

Obviously they left out the details of what GW won, but what they have said CHS won must be correct.

I'm not saying they'd lie. But they will put the most positive aspects of the story first and paint their client in the best light possible while remaining in the realm of truthfulness.

I agree, there is definitely some spin on this as they're painting CHS as a completely innocent saint who was being oppressed by an evil corporation, when in truth they weren't completely clean of all wrong doing either.

EDIT: I'd like to note that the press release claims GW dropped it's demands for damages to $25k, not that the Jury had awarded GW that much in damages. Selective truth perhaps, or a detail we didn't know before?

czakk wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:

czakk wrote:
Well, it is a press release ... so grain of salt and all that.

I doubt a respectable law firm would lie in a press release about a case.

Obviously they left out the details of what GW won, but what they have said CHS won must be correct.

I'm not saying they'd lie. But they will put the most positive aspects of the story first and paint their client in the best light possible while remaining in the realm of truthfulness.

Yes, they are lawyers, what is your point?. On the other hand if you ask GW this is "Grate news".

GW went after any sort of hinting as to where the accessories where supposed to go on and they got slapped across the face, they really could not care less about CHS them selves, it was the principle behind it and they righteously failed. So yeah it is a win CHS and they have to pay a 25k tax for it.

What is the likelihood of the verdict being subverted by the judge?.

Earlier today I got all excited by the change in the thread title having been waiting for the Final Judgement .

I'll be waiting for the next thread title change to " Final Judgement " before gettting my hopes up again I guess !

ClockworkZion wrote:


Selective truth perhaps, or a detail we didn't know before?

I think that is a detail we didn't know before.

Even as a Share Holder in GW, I feel this is great news for the gaming community. It will be interesting to read the full judgement though.

Both sides will attempt to spin this in their favor and there isn't anything wrong with that. The GW press release or investor report will likely focus on the few models that CHS had to stop selling completely and the terms they're not allowed to use without any mention of the majority of items from the initial claim that were settled or outright lost.

I also don't know how much this release (or the case) would necessarily affect GW stock price. I can't imagine that anyone with the wherewithal to invest in GW did so thinking that their rich trove of IP such as "pointed arrows" and "repurposed historical symbols" was something that gave the company any value.

Stockholders own GW for one reason: they are very, very good at pushing cheap plastic with a high markup into the hands of children whose parents have lots of disposable income. Neither the results of this case nor the ability of CHS to continue selling parts is going to affect that in any way at all.

The case is an excellent for real hobbyists (modelers, painters and wargamers alike) because it lets us have our options remain open, but the bulk of GW's sales are to customers who don't know and/or don't care about anything at all related to the case.

The only thing that might have an effect on GW's share price is if they develop a habit of spending a million dollars a pop to file lawsuits that they end up losing (by virtually every measure). I suspect that those will probably happen MUCH less frequently in the future.

while this is a blow to the GW legal machine, I cant help but think this is also a bit of a "win" for GW from a moving product standpoint, if a ton of companies spring up over night making space marine compatible parts then maybe it will get people to buy MOAR space marines....then again I'm sure GW would never see it that way

ClockworkZion wrote:

czakk wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:

czakk wrote:
Well, it is a press release ... so grain of salt and all that.

I doubt a respectable law firm would lie in a press release about a case.

Obviously they left out the details of what GW won, but what they have said CHS won must be correct.

I'm not saying they'd lie. But they will put the most positive aspects of the story first and paint their client in the best light possible while remaining in the realm of truthfulness.

I agree, there is definitely some spin on this as they're painting CHS as a completely innocent saint who was being oppressed by an evil corporation, when in truth they weren't completely clean of all wrong doing either.

EDIT: I'd like to note that the press release claims GW dropped it's demands for damages to $25k, not that the Jury had awarded GW that much in damages. Selective truth perhaps, or a detail we didn't know before?

I'm waiting for GW's reply personally. I want to see what kind of spin or lack there of is going to post up somewhere.

What's the typical wait time between the delivery of a verdict and the final judgement being given?

It sounds like a lot of work, writing about each and every facet of the jury's verdict, justifying any departure from it and explaining why it's legal and proper. So I'd totally understand if it took a long time.

Just a quick question for those following the trial all the way through, was Moskin ever sanctioned for his actions in relation to hiding evidence (letters to the copyright office)? I have read before that he was sanctioned for some things, but I'm just wondering what happened with all of that, or if we don't know exactly.

 ironicsilence wrote:
while this is a blow to the GW legal machine, I cant help but think this is also a bit of a "win" for GW from a moving product standpoint, if a ton of companies spring up over night making space marine compatible parts then maybe it will get people to buy MOAR space marines....then again I'm sure GW would never see it that way

I think they're worried about companies making "not space marines" and losing sales on Space Marines TM but heck it probably more than evens out when there are decent shoulder pads. You can look at this overall outcome in various ways:

GW has to protect their IP to keep it. Wins on that front in that they actually made an effort.
GW wins because people will probably buy more space marines to use CH products on
GW loses cause it cost 1 million dollars
GW loses cause they have opened the flood gates to others with their utterly baffling all or nothing strategy which completely backfired.

Gamers ultimately did the best, we will have more choice now that GW may have shot themselves in the foot in several places. CHS has a major victory that costs a paltry 25,000. GW may well fire the legal counsel which has been sending paranoid C&Ds for the last five years and suing like an american.

I really hope to see the line items in short order to see where the wins and losses specifically were.

Simple solution for GW in this case. Develop a subsection of games Workshop dedicated to making Bitz and/or obscure options and models GW currently is unable or unwilling to produce... Um kinda like FW but instead of thinking bigger they need to think of options people are requesting, the kinda of stuff companies like Chapterhouse are capitalizing on. Though GW still has to tackle the elephant in the room, which is price. Many of these companies are capitalizing on GW's price structure with more affordable alternatives. If GW can't rein in their pricing structure, 3rd party producers will compete on this. Lastly, GW has to reinvent the competitive gaming support. They need to either run GW sponsored events where third party models are not permitted(with an incentive for players to actually attend) or they need to support events like Adepticon in such a way that they demand the tournaments ban 3rd party models, or at least discourage them. GW needs only to flex its muscles and seize initiative from this otherwise major defeat.

Why I cannot find surprising that with their usual head-in-sand policy GW has not put a minimal press release on their corporate webpage yet?

If you want to spin the facts you have to do it faster than the other guy can spin them their way of investors will start wondering who is lying (both ofc ) It's not that hard to point out that they won some damages and defended this or that "key" trademark and that an apelation to win the case is forthcoming becuase everybody knows that evil CPH deceived those poor deluded juries...

But no sir. GW does not give explanations they only pontificate.

M.

GW don't want their customers to know about the rest of the hobby, especially 3rd parties that convert their models, so they're not going to advertise them by airing their dirty lining publicly.

NecronLord3 wrote:Simple solution for GW in this case. Develop a subsection of games Workshop dedicated to making Bitz and/or obscure options and models GW currently is unable or unwilling to produce...

This division could have some kind of catchy wargaming name like "Citadel"...

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
GW don't want their customers to know about the rest of the hobby, especially 3rd parties that convert their models, so they're not going to advertise them by airing their dirty lining publicly.

Ofc, that's why I said Corporate, you don't want those stooopid mor... excuse me beloved clients learning about 3rd parties but surely you want your shareholders to know that you have a backup plan before they start asking pointed questions like why the company spent 1+ million dollars fighting a suit that has ended up questioning the ownership of many trademarks that IIRC in the last shareholder report the CEO said they were safer that insede Fort Knox vaults.

The plebs on the other hand better continue visiting the main site and dropping money in exchange of stuff that can be bought cheaper someplace else or else

M.

 Miguelsan wrote:

Ofc, that's why I said Corporate, you don't want those stooopid mor... excuse me beloved clients learning about 3rd parties but surely you want your shareholders to know that you have a backup plan before they start asking pointed questions like why the company spent 1+ million dollars fighting a suit that has ended up questioning the ownership of many trademarks that IIRC in the last shareholder report the CEO said they were safer that insede Fort Knox vaults.

I think people are reading bit too much into "GW lost those and those trademarks and dropped damage claims from $400k to 25k etc." Just because you lose from your initial position does not mean a catastrophe. A standard negotiating tactics is to set your claims at preposterous level, so then later you can "compromise" towards the level you realistically hoped to achieve. I suspect GW applied much the same principle to its trademark claims. They probably figured that the best way to get as broad trademarks as possible was to trademark absolutely *everything* and hope for the best: I doubt they ever realistically even expected to be able to hold on all of that. This is hardly unique way of trademark policy, many other companies practice same. (For example, Facebook attempting to trademark word "book").

The demand for money was silly but it's clear that GW wanted CHS shut down and completely out of business, which they probably haven't got.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
Do their shareholders even know about this? If they have to make a statement it will be something saying that they defended their fortress walls as evidenced by the fact they were awarded damages. They're not going to shout from the rooftops to advertise the number of points which CHS, and now all manufacturers, are allowed to use freely, and the disparity between the $25,000 damages and whatever silly amount they threw at the case.

It'll probably read something like:

"And the court case we mentioned in our last report has come to a close. We were awarded $25,000 in damages. This is great news!"

So is the press release indicative of the final verdict? Or are we still waiting for the judge to give the last say-so?