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cool thanks

in for a starter, then

...but it'll have to get to a whopping $90.000,- before support packs start getting unlocked? damn, I was so hoping for that gatling gun mentioned a while back

 Necros wrote:
as far as the last campaign goes.. just a matter of getting the rest of the boxes printed and packed up, i'm expecting to have everything start shipping in the next couple of weeks. But if I had a nickel for every time I said that, I'd have like 45 cents by now...

Any idea if they will ship before the end of this campaign?

I'm expecting them to ship before the end. that's my goal. It depends on how slow the printer is :/ But I'm hoping the boxes will be done this week or early next week, and Game Salute knows they have to expedite so yeah, you should have the original figs pretty soon

The gatling gun is part of the Wilde's Rangers starter set, so as soon as that's unlocked then the gun is too We might be able to offer the gatling gun separate too when the time comes.

Necros, I think buying our own damn printer was one of my better decisions

 Necros wrote:
I'm expecting them to ship before the end. that's my goal. It depends on how slow the printer is :/ But I'm hoping the boxes will be done this week or early next week, and Game Salute knows they have to expedite so yeah, you should have the original figs pretty soon

The gatling gun is part of the Wilde's Rangers starter set, so as soon as that's unlocked then the gun is too We might be able to offer the gatling gun separate too when the time comes.

ooh, so it's the five pictured men and a gatling gun in that starter? That's pretty great value!
oh well, fingers crossed for $60,000 then

This will get to 90K, right? Right?!?!?!? I need those damn big heroes.

Backer #11.

I was wondering why there were no gangs+buildings pledge levels... I tell my students to read carefully all day long, and see what I almost did? Sheesh.

That 100$ level is pretty sweet, with all the bonus figures.

 BrookM wrote:
Any idea if they will ship before the end of this campaign?

Yeah, I have this funny rule about not backing a second kickstarter from a company before I get my first kickstarter toys from them. Stopped me from getting in on the 2nd Wreckage KS as well.

Fingers crossed you get the printing smashed out and everything sent before the end of this one.

Yep, we're making Wilde's Rangers the same price as the other starters for the campaign, but with 6 models in the set the retail price will likely be higher. They're all going to be $35 retail, so the ranges will probably be like $40.

We wanted to design the campaign and drive pledges toward a high level that gets all the good stuff, like other campaigns do.. seems to work well for them. So the higher we can get, the more bonus stuff you can get if you pledge $100 or more. We're just showing the 1st tier of releases, so if we get high enough we'll be doing a lot of those 3-man support packs, mounted models and if we get really really high, I hope to be able to do a plastic stage coach model kit

But if we don't, it'll still serve as a roadmap for future releases so everything you see will get released eventually, just not a part of the campaign.

We did the buildings as an add-on this time. So if you want one of the bundles you just increase your pledge by the price listed. We figured this would be easier than having separate special pledge levels like before. All that did was make things more confusing for the game salute warehouse guys.

And I understand about the old campaign. We did the new one now so we could get it done before Xmas. If we didn't do it now, we'd probably wait till February and that would mean no new figures till probably September.

I'm actually hoping the new ones from this campaign will be done sooner now that we have the process all figured out, I'm hoping for around April or May instead of July but we'll see how it goes.

Really like the video for the new kickstarter. Hopefully my personal funds will allow me to make this one too.

 Vain wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Any idea if they will ship before the end of this campaign?

Yeah, I have this funny rule about not backing a second kickstarter from a company before I get my first kickstarter toys from them. Stopped me from getting in on the 2nd Wreckage KS as well.

Hehe, you are not alone on that rule.

Quick question will the bonus figures / 3-man support packs be available outside of the kick starter?

I want to make sure that as a minimum I pick up all the figures that wont be available as part of the general release after the kick starter finishes.

Thanks

There's actually no exclusive figures, all of them will be released for retail later on. The only thing though is the bonus figures are available separately in the Kickstarter, but for retail they will be in packs of 3. Kurt Wyatt, Dr. Kilmer and Wayne Duke will be in the Lawmen pack and Nevada Dave, Father Al and Marshall Stewart will the the Adventurers.

The only thing that will be limited are the Colt 45 dice, mostly just because they would probably be too expensive to have all the time. It's cheaper to collect a bunch of orders for them and then order in the 1000's. So we can get a good deal on them if we add em to a Kickstarter.

So either way if you miss this Kickstarter you can still buy them later But, the KS price is cheaper, like the starters are $30 here but for retail they will be $35

Cheers Necros.

Very very tempting to jump on my first kick starter

If you pick a starter set from the old kick starter say The Bloodwolf Tribe and a new one for example The Widowmakers will you ship the order as one in July 2013 or part ship when each gang is available. I'm not worried either way but thought it might be something people might ask.

Yep I'm sure that will be an option. What I'm guessing the might do is make your first shipment free, so if you want to get the old minis sooner you can do that and just pay a little extra to get the next shipment later on. Or you can wait and get it all at once.

I've backed this project...

However of the 62 projects I have backed on Kickstarter your's is by far the most delinquat. You've had people's money for around 7 months, specifically since the 15th of April with an estimated shipment date of June 2012. Your status updates have been sporadic at best, and your actual method of delivery has changed several times. If I don't receive my models from the first kickstarter before your "new" one ends I will be canceling my pledge as well as urging people who followed me into this campaign to do the same as well.

I personally think it is very inapporpriate to start a second Kickstarter before you've fufilled your obligations for the original regardless of the reasons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also from what I've read in this thread it appears you have no intention of making a hardbound rulebook....

I'd like to remind you that a hardbound rulebook was an option in your original campaing and I've already paid for it.

Sorry again it's taken so long. The original release date was supposed to be August because of the extra starter sets that were unlocked, but Kickstarter wouldn't allow me to change that once people started pledging. I know that doesn't really matter now and it's still way overdue regardless. It's my fault for not planning ahead and not knowing how long it would really take.

Game Salute is publishing the game now, in a higher quality format than I could have done myself. Had I done things myself I might have gotten everything done faster, but I would have run out of money before I finished everyone's order. Again, my mistake and a lesson learned the hard way. They will be working hard to get everything done asap. It's out of my hands now, I'm the designer and I come up with the new gangs and the game rules, they handle the product side of things... but I'm working with them to make sure we can get everything done asap.

There might not have been enough updates along the line, but there really wasn't any update other than "I'm still waiting on this guy or that guy". I felt like I was starting to sound like a broken record.

You are correct, there is no hardback rulebook anymore. Game Salute also provided the funding to make a real high quality, 80 page full color rulebook, instead of a low quality 30 page print-on-demand copy from Lulu.com. That's the hardback book you would have gotten. If you still want that, I can still make one from lulu for you, but I would imagine you would rather have a nicer version. If not we can refund it, or apply the $30 to an additional starter set or whatever you want to do.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, also, one thing I hope we're able to do with the new campaign is to offer miniatures "unboxed" as a shipping option, so you can get your order shipped as soon as we get the miniatures, no need to wait for boxes to be made, etc. And this is still an option for the old campaign. We have all of the miniatures, bonus dice and buildings. If you want them now and don't care about the pretty box, we can get you your figures asap The rulebook would be another matter, but still.

Right now the printing has been the biggest delay. In the future we'll be printing things earlier, like using artwork for the cards instead of model photos, etc. We had to use photos for the original models because I didn't have any nice color art for them.

Just to make sure I'm reading it correctly. The Colt .45 dice count as a bonus figure, so the $100 pledge would automatically net me a set of 6 (along with the rest of the unlocked bonus figs) and if I want any additional sets I just need to up my pledge by $10.00 for each. I'm a sucker for dice.

Yep, the 6 dice are a bonus item so you automagically get 6 Even for the folks that pledge $30 for 1 starter, they can choose the dice for their 1 bonus item instead of a figure if they want.

So then if you wanted more it will be $10 for 6 more. Or $50 for 30 you can get as many as you want, but in groups of 6 at a time.

Necros wrote:Sorry again it's taken so long. The original release date was supposed to be August because of the extra starter sets that were unlocked, but Kickstarter wouldn't allow me to change that once people started pledging. I know that doesn't really matter now and it's still way overdue regardless. It's my fault for not planning ahead and not knowing how long it would really take.

I'm not really concerened about things taking longer then expected. In fact its something I expect when I back a first time game developer. What bothers me is looking for more money before you've delivered anything from the original project, thats what I find in very bad taste.

Necros wrote:Game Salute is publishing the game now, in a higher quality format than I could have done myself. Had I done things myself I might have gotten everything done faster, but I would have run out of money before I finished everyone's order. Again, my mistake and a lesson learned the hard way. They will be working hard to get everything done asap. It's out of my hands now, I'm the designer and I come up with the new gangs and the game rules, they handle the product side of things... but I'm working with them to make sure we can get everything done asap.

Usually this should be the other way around... But then again I've come to the realization that the only way to get what you expect with Game Salute is to set your expectations really low.... They are after all the Latest...

Necros wrote:There might not have been enough updates along the line, but there really wasn't any update other than "I'm still waiting on this guy or that guy". I felt like I was starting to sound like a broken record.

Sound like a broken record, I can easily block or stop messages coming from you. Unfortunatly I get ansy when I don't hear from people I've given money to in awhile.

Necros wrote:You are correct, there is no hardback rulebook anymore. Game Salute also provided the funding to make a real high quality, 80 page full color rulebook, instead of a low quality 30 page print-on-demand copy from Lulu.com. That's the hardback book you would have gotten. If you still want that, I can still make one from lulu for you, but I would imagine you would rather have a nicer version. If not we can refund it, or apply the $30 to an additional starter set or whatever you want to do.

For me its not so much the thing, and in the grand scheme of things I could care less about the money. What bothers me is how I found out about it. I had to read through 5 pages of posts on a forum, then actually pose the question to get an answer. If you or anyone else involved had sent me an email or a message saying that the rulebooks weren't really feasible but here's what we can do for you, I would have been perfectly fine with that. Unfortunatly that never happened and up until a few hours ago I had assumed I was getting what I had pledged for. A big part of gaining a following in Kickstarter is delivering everything thats promised and building trust with your backers. In the scheme of things delerving one hardcover rulebook may not seem like much to you, but look at it from a backers perspective. i don't know you personally, I don't get to look you over your shoulder and see how much work you put in. All I have to build trust in you is your prior preformance and the few updates that I get about the project. Then I find out through a third party source that I have to hunt down that your not intending to offer all of the things originally offerred in the original project.....

Well, while I think Catyrpelius is overreacting somewhat he does make one very good point: communication is key in things like this. send small updates. Keep folks in the loop. Be as proactive as you can when things don't work quite as expected - that way often when things go wrong and you resolve it in a decent way, you'll come off with virtually all backers only loving you more for it

You're right, in hindsight we probably should have waited. It's too late now, but another lesson learned. I am planning yet another campaign for the Weird West board game version. It's both a new stand-alone game, but also an expansion for the Skirmish game. That's barely out of the idea stage though and will take a lot of artwork and sculpts to get it done. So I won't be launching that until the minis from this new campaign are done. It likely wouldn't be ready until late next summer anyway. Either way, my goal is to get to the point where I don't need Kickstarter at all, and just make the minis I want to and release them the old fashioned way.

If it's more frequent updates you want, then that's what you'll get. I think I also made the mistake of posting a lot of updates here but not on the campaign page. I guess it's partly due to my dakka habit and me needing to post something when I'm bored at work.

Sorry about mis-communicating the rulebook then. I'm sure I've posted about it a few times, but maybe I just didn't go into detail enough. The printed rulebook will be a small-format book similar in size to what GW includes in their starter sets. In fact the downloadble rules on my site right now are from the actual files we sent off to the printer. 84 pages, full color, nice glossy paper. I was actually pretty impressed with the proof the printer set, I guess I was just expecting it to be like Lulu's quality. It'll cost $20 and be available for retail at the same time as the other original box sets. Kickstarters will get their box sets before retail release though. There will be a large format hardback rulebook some day, but it's probably a good year away, after the game has been out a while and we can include a lot of models, lots of great art and fluff and make something that looks really great. Rules won't really change, just the big rulebook will get lots of extras, including campaign rules and all.

Well, lesson learned indeed. How about from now on, any KS campaign you do, after it gets finished, gets at least one status update every 14 days until everyone has their stuff? Do one in regular intervals that way we know when to expect news, even if only news of no news. Doesn't have to be anything fancy, just a quick write-up. Shouldn't cost you more than ~20min every two weeks
Catyrpelius had a point there as well. **Every** KS update I receive has a link at the bottom titled "Unsubscribe from this project's updates with one click", which, as you'd expect, lets me forget about a project and live my life until, one day, stuff magically shows up on my doorstep
Besides, once every two weeks, or even once every week, isn't *that* much. Hey, we all thought the project was sufficiently interesting to invest money in. Even if it was only thirty bucks or so, you can safely assume most of us are sufficiently interested to like status updates. Feth, it's actually part of the fun, reading about a project's progress like that! Again, those few who mind the updates *can unsubscribe with one click*.

Yeah, actually what I hoped to do was a bi-weekly email newsletter with news and status updates but also more to include tutorials and downloads and photos of people's minis and other user-submitted stuff. Just not really there yet since the minis aren't out yet. My emails though have been more like bi-monthly lately, I just didn't think it was worth spamming people just to say "Yep, still waiting" again and again.

But, yeah, with a lot more happening now i'll have a lot of new updates coming more often

 Necros wrote:
You're right, in hindsight we probably should have waited. It's too late now, but another lesson learned. I am planning yet another campaign for the Weird West board game version. It's both a new stand-alone game, but also an expansion for the Skirmish game. That's barely out of the idea stage though and will take a lot of artwork and sculpts to get it done. So I won't be launching that until the minis from this new campaign are done. It likely wouldn't be ready until late next summer anyway. Either way, my goal is to get to the point where I don't need Kickstarter at all, and just make the minis I want to and release them the old fashioned way.

If it's more frequent updates you want, then that's what you'll get. I think I also made the mistake of posting a lot of updates here but not on the campaign page. I guess it's partly due to my dakka habit and me needing to post something when I'm bored at work.

Sorry about mis-communicating the rulebook then. I'm sure I've posted about it a few times, but maybe I just didn't go into detail enough. The printed rulebook will be a small-format book similar in size to what GW includes in their starter sets. In fact the downloadble rules on my site right now are from the actual files we sent off to the printer. 84 pages, full color, nice glossy paper. I was actually pretty impressed with the proof the printer set, I guess I was just expecting it to be like Lulu's quality. It'll cost $20 and be available for retail at the same time as the other original box sets. Kickstarters will get their box sets before retail release though. There will be a large format hardback rulebook some day, but it's probably a good year away, after the game has been out a while and we can include a lot of models, lots of great art and fluff and make something that looks really great. Rules won't really change, just the big rulebook will get lots of extras, including campaign rules and all.

Fair enough.

Just remember concerning your updates. Everyone that backed your project knows about your kickstarter page. Not everyone that backed your project knows about this thread on a primarily 40k forum...

Necros: If you were in touch with some writers, you could ask for short, short stories to incorporate to your newsletter, which would fill space and even if you have nothing much to report, will make for a good read.

As long as I get my stuff from the first, the speed of this one being up doesn't bother me.

Hell with White Wolf I'm now backed up with two completed Kickstarters, and a potential third only just arrived a little before the WtA 20th was listed.

Anyway, glad to see more stuff up, and I'm liking a number of these gangs more than the first wave. My only issue is I can't remember which two gangs I picked for the first one. Will probably get Marshall, or Sheriff and a terrain pack, will have a think over the next few days.

Eitherway, hope its successful for you Necros.

Thanks, I think it will be Will be a better deal when we get it higher, the more we can unlock the better the value $100+ becomes. We have stretch goals planned out to around 400k Really just an upcoming/planned release list and the higher we get the more we can do now.

The mini short story idea sounds good, might look into that. I really want to do a lot of user-submitted content. Everyone comes up with their own house rules or campaigns or whatever, so I'll be happy to share what other folks come up with

INternet 2.0 is all about UGC, after all.

Did I hallucinate, or you did a bit of legerdemain with the stretch goals, and brought Tranquility's crew down to a manageable 40K? I'm super stoked about that, although I'd still like to reach the rangers.

I hope this does really well, Necros!

Catyr, I think you have a really great point, but don't these 2 updates (the first, at least, posted before yours here) address most of the concerns?

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/gangfightgames/blackwater-gulch-gangfights-in-the-old-west/posts

I agree it makes sense to wait if possible, but clearly things are all getting packed / etc from the pics in that update. If it were me waiting, I'd probably just ask for the minis unboxed (***Edit: Oh, didn't realize there were character cards and that the rulebook wasn't ready, if that's the case, I can see why folks are waiting). Necros, it's reallllllly odd to me that that's the biggest holdup. Get a different printer, or go On The Lamb's way and get Game Salute to buy one, or something .

For the new campaign, free shipping to most of the world is Awesome!

I will be watching with great interest. However, I may have taken a vow with some severe consequences that Trollforged's would be my last Kickstarter for this year...