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 Bolognesus wrote:
I know
That firespray combo wouldn't happen to be the rather cheesy HLC combo, would it?
I know it's useful I just never find room for it and it doesn't quite have the appeal of other upgrades (ever seen a firespray barrel roll? great fun to see the smirk on your opponents face evaporate once you demolish his entire movement plan for a round with just that!)

It would, actually. I didn't realize it was the cheesy combo until I sat down with all my equipment cards, scratching my head for some way to make the Firespray viable when my FLGS said it wasn't possible. First game I played, I alpha-striked one ship each turn with it. Opinions of the "useless Firespray" soon died down. Trust 40k to make you come up with the cheesiest combos using rules lawyering... I don't like that bombs are dropped at the start of your movement, though, and that all the Firespray pilots are so high pilot levels. You're mostly going to be using them against hoard pilots (which would be pilot skill 1), meaning that it's damn easy for them to avoid you and damn hard for you to set it up for a good drop.

I've done the Firespray Barrel Roll. It's hilarious, because it's huge base makes it travel so far.

 Enigwolf wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 Manchu wrote:

This shot from BGG shows an A-Wing scaled "by eye" (lol) to the hangar picture:

I actually don't care about this kind of scale difference. In my mind, the A-Wing FFG sells looks big next to a X-Wing but I'm willing to accept that there is no such thing as an A-Wing to begin with and so scale is really a matter of what feels right in context. For me, a tiny little A-Wing miniature in this line seems lame.

While I don't have a problem with the current scale as is, I think I'd actually prefer having the a-wing at that size. When I first got my a-wing, I had trouble justifying the 2 hull compared with the TIE fighter's 3 hull and I just chalked it up to game balance (the a-wing has 2 shield to "make up for it"). At that size, I wouldn't have wondered why it had 2 hull compared to so many others at 3.

Could also simply be more fragile innards, less redundant systems, less armor, etc.

TIEs are the cheapest of the cheap by definition... any rebel ship should be more robust and expensive than your run of the mill TIE/LN pretty much. Empire weren't too concerned with their pilots being alive and junk. A-wings I believe have quite a bit over a standard tie and even interceptors pound for pound?

 MajorTom11 wrote:

 Enigwolf wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 Manchu wrote:

This shot from BGG shows an A-Wing scaled "by eye" (lol) to the hangar picture:

I actually don't care about this kind of scale difference. In my mind, the A-Wing FFG sells looks big next to a X-Wing but I'm willing to accept that there is no such thing as an A-Wing to begin with and so scale is really a matter of what feels right in context. For me, a tiny little A-Wing miniature in this line seems lame.

While I don't have a problem with the current scale as is, I think I'd actually prefer having the a-wing at that size. When I first got my a-wing, I had trouble justifying the 2 hull compared with the TIE fighter's 3 hull and I just chalked it up to game balance (the a-wing has 2 shield to "make up for it"). At that size, I wouldn't have wondered why it had 2 hull compared to so many others at 3.

Could also simply be more fragile innards, less redundant systems, less armor, etc.

TIEs are the cheapest of the cheap by definition... any rebel ship should be more robust and expensive than your run of the mill TIE/LN pretty much. Empire weren't too concerned with their pilots being alive and junk. A-wings I believe have quite a bit over a standard tie and even interceptors pound for pound?

Well, they do have shields, and can take 4 hits raw damage-wise, of which the hits on shields disregard crit effects. So technically they're sturdier? It could be argued that instead of piling on armour, they used the tonnage and space for shield generators.

 Enigwolf wrote:

 Bolognesus wrote:
I know
That firespray combo wouldn't happen to be the rather cheesy HLC combo, would it?
I know it's useful I just never find room for it and it doesn't quite have the appeal of other upgrades (ever seen a firespray barrel roll? great fun to see the smirk on your opponents face evaporate once you demolish his entire movement plan for a round with just that!)

It would, actually. I didn't realize it was the cheesy combo until I sat down with all my equipment cards, scratching my head for some way to make the Firespray viable when my FLGS said it wasn't possible. First game I played, I alpha-striked one ship each turn with it. Opinions of the "useless Firespray" soon died down. Trust 40k to make you come up with the cheesiest combos using rules lawyering... I don't like that bombs are dropped at the start of your movement, though, and that all the Firespray pilots are so high pilot levels. You're mostly going to be using them against hoard pilots (which would be pilot skill 1), meaning that it's damn easy for them to avoid you and damn hard for you to set it up for a good drop.

I've done the Firespray Barrel Roll. It's hilarious, because it's huge base makes it travel so far.

Useless? what idiots told you it was useless? Feth, even without the cheesy-as-hell HLC combo it works just dandy. Agility 2 combined with it's amount of hull and shields alone, and being able to shoot out of it's arse makes it walk all over horde lists IME. Won my first tournament three perfect victories in a row without the HLC combo just fine.
And really the way this game is set up you're *supposed* to rules lawyer the equipment together. That's half the fun of the game.
...Which is why PTL is only supplied in the A-Wing blister, for example. (Do I sound bitter yet? surely not...)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Enigwolf wrote:

 MajorTom11 wrote:

 Enigwolf wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 Manchu wrote:

This shot from BGG shows an A-Wing scaled "by eye" (lol) to the hangar picture:

I actually don't care about this kind of scale difference. In my mind, the A-Wing FFG sells looks big next to a X-Wing but I'm willing to accept that there is no such thing as an A-Wing to begin with and so scale is really a matter of what feels right in context. For me, a tiny little A-Wing miniature in this line seems lame.

While I don't have a problem with the current scale as is, I think I'd actually prefer having the a-wing at that size. When I first got my a-wing, I had trouble justifying the 2 hull compared with the TIE fighter's 3 hull and I just chalked it up to game balance (the a-wing has 2 shield to "make up for it"). At that size, I wouldn't have wondered why it had 2 hull compared to so many others at 3.

Could also simply be more fragile innards, less redundant systems, less armor, etc.

TIEs are the cheapest of the cheap by definition... any rebel ship should be more robust and expensive than your run of the mill TIE/LN pretty much. Empire weren't too concerned with their pilots being alive and junk. A-wings I believe have quite a bit over a standard tie and even interceptors pound for pound?

Well, they do have shields, and can take 4 hits raw damage-wise, of which the hits on shields disregard crit effects. So technically they're sturdier? It could be argued that instead of piling on armour, they used the tonnage and space for shield generators.

Also A-wings survive through absurd manoeuvrability. Looking at it's dial (let alone some of the potential equipment combos), I'd say they got that down pat.

 Bolognesus wrote:

 Enigwolf wrote:

 Bolognesus wrote:
I know
That firespray combo wouldn't happen to be the rather cheesy HLC combo, would it?
I know it's useful I just never find room for it and it doesn't quite have the appeal of other upgrades (ever seen a firespray barrel roll? great fun to see the smirk on your opponents face evaporate once you demolish his entire movement plan for a round with just that!)

It would, actually. I didn't realize it was the cheesy combo until I sat down with all my equipment cards, scratching my head for some way to make the Firespray viable when my FLGS said it wasn't possible. First game I played, I alpha-striked one ship each turn with it. Opinions of the "useless Firespray" soon died down. Trust 40k to make you come up with the cheesiest combos using rules lawyering... I don't like that bombs are dropped at the start of your movement, though, and that all the Firespray pilots are so high pilot levels. You're mostly going to be using them against hoard pilots (which would be pilot skill 1), meaning that it's damn easy for them to avoid you and damn hard for you to set it up for a good drop.

I've done the Firespray Barrel Roll. It's hilarious, because it's huge base makes it travel so far.

Useless? what idiots told you it was useless? Feth, even without the cheesy-as-hell HLC combo it works just dandy. Agility 2 combined with it's amount of hull and shields alone, and being able to shoot out of it's arse makes it walk all over horde lists IME. Won my first tournament three perfect victories in a row without the HLC combo just fine.
And really the way this game is set up you're *supposed* to rules lawyer the equipment together. That's half the fun of the game.
...Which is why PTL is only supplied in the A-Wing blister, for example. (Do I sound bitter yet? surely not...)

The guys in my FLGS. I'm really the only one (occasionally one other guy) who fields a Firespray regularly. I'm just curious, how do you kit yours out without the cheesy HLC combo?

...Regular HLC does fine already (hadn't figured out the combo back then) as does vanilla, with certain pilots.
If you manoeuvre it smartly you'll basically get to shoot every turn and it takes an age to take the fether down. Now if you combine the thing with, say, PTL soontir, you can generally alphastrike the biggest threat in round one (or two if it's an x-wing) or shoot all support out from underneath it.
Maybe I've had easy opponents or something, but it's worked okay for me even in rather weird setups (in that first tourney I actually had it set up with the abysmally useless gunner card, for example...), just stay the feth away from boba. that ability is *so* situational any decent player should be able to avoid needing it 9/10 games entirely.
...Barrel roll does help for a non HLC firespray especially, though.

Sorry,what is the HLC combo?

HLC is Heavy Laser Cannon. Probably a combo with Mercenary and Firespray.

Yup, mercenary copilot and HLC on a firespray. Preferably with krassis trelix (sic?) as a pilot to sweeten it that little bit extra. Works like a charm.

 Bolognesus wrote:
Yup, mercenary copilot and HLC on a firespray. Preferably with krassis trelix (sic?) as a pilot to sweeten it that little bit extra. Works like a charm.

Make it more imba/overkill with Kath Scarlet and Marksmanship.

I forgot what the merc copilot does, and it's in my car. Someone wanna remind me why it's worthwhile and the gunner isn't? I like my gunner with HLC...

Krassis Trellix also has the honor of being the X Wing name least distinguishable from sneezing.

 Enigwolf wrote:

 Bolognesus wrote:
Yup, mercenary copilot and HLC on a firespray. Preferably with krassis trelix (sic?) as a pilot to sweeten it that little bit extra. Works like a charm.

Make it more imba/overkill with Kath Scarlet and Marksmanship.

Nice That does add another 3 pts onto an already expensive ship - might be the straw to break this camel's back. Still, interesting and somehow I hadn't even considered scarlet yet. Strange that. Well, will be sure to try out those two soon

How does the Falcon rate with you guys?

Good question, BrookM. Well, 360fof is fun and it does look like a tank but IME (only played with it once, but I've got more experience playing against one) the 1 agility really, really hurts. Against a Wedge or a HLCcombo it doesn't really matter all that much but swarms can really tear that thing to pieces. As long as you can make the 1 agility work it's really good but any swarm list can have a field day on that bugger. Never seen my academy pilots do so much damage. And really, it doesn't do all *that* much damage so be careful what list to fit it into. Rebels already play for the survivability angle so it can lower the damage output of a list below acceptable levels real quick.

I like combining a chewbacca YT1300 with a shieldgen/R2F2 Biggs and some other ship (probably a mid-range Xwing) with perhaps that upgrade to pull crits unto the YT1300 - fun but low damage output. You can frustrate your opponent's damage output for several turns though - it does even the field and after they finally blast biggs to pieces you will probably have taken enough of them with you to be able to finish them off (at least, that's the thought). It really kills swarm lists - be careful of high damage output single attacks though. The aforementioned HLC combo can make short work of this list.

I played with it for the first time yesterday actually... LOVED IT. It was classic Han Shot First, Han Solo, Falcon, Chewbacca, Gunner, SwarmTactics, plus 2 rookie x-wings, one of which was my boy Porkins in Red 6

The Falcon absorbed a terrific amount of damage, that Chewbacca card to essentially gives you 15 hit points on a single ship... Amazing. That, and Han plus gunner essentially gives you the ability to roll 3 times for free... The TIEs agility here actually hurts it as if you roll poorly with your first 2 shots (normal fire, then Han), it is quite likely a tie will dodge one or two hits. This, unfortunately for the tie, activates the gunner card which then gives you the ability to re-roll yet again, usually with focus or evade already spent. He definitely layed out the hurt.

The turret is also a game changer, forcing the agile TIEs to chase you in ways they never would fighting x-wings. This disrupts their line and causes traffic jams at times, all the while they are constantly forced to choose between focusing down the falcon and chasing it or dealing with the x-wings. Either way, a powerful rebel attack ship will usually have it's pick of shots.

Things could have been very different though, my opponent took a high cost list, Vader/swarm, Soontir/swarm, Dark Curse and two academy ties. His plan was to chain the swarms to essentially have 4 PS9 ships... in the first round though, I managed to roll 3 hits with the falcon on Soontir at range 3, which gave my opponent 4 defence dice... somehow, he managed to whiff all 4 with blanks... he stared forelornly at his focus as he removed a very expensive ship and the lynchpin of his battle plan before he even got to take off his jacket and sit down lol.

Neither of us are experts by any means, but my first impression was very positive, I liked the way it played, I loved being able to more or less guarantee 2 hits a round or so averaged out, I loved being able to focus on being evasive and just avoiding arcs instead of worrying about getting them in mine, I loved the tankiness of it... I loved having more freedom to manoeuvre my x-wings along with it, chaining my swarm tactics in unexpected ways as the x-wings danced in and out of range one at a time. It definitely fit my preferred style of play I think.

So ya, I rate it pretty darn high atm.

Queue someone telling me I completely misunderstood the chaining of the shooting rules of that particular combo lol :S

 MajorTom11 wrote:
I played with it for the first time yesterday actually... LOVED IT. It was classic Han Shot First, Han Solo, Falcon, Chewbacca, Gunner, SwarmTactics, plus 2 rookie x-wings, one of which was my boy Porkins in Red 6

The Falcon absorbed a terrific amount of damage, that Chewbacca card to essentially gives you 15 hit points on a single ship... Amazing. That, and Han plus gunner essentially gives you the ability to roll 3 times for free... The TIEs agility here actually hurts it as if you roll poorly with your first 2 shots (normal fire, then Han), it is quite likely a tie will dodge one or two hits. This, unfortunately for the tie, activates the gunner card which then gives you the ability to re-roll yet again, usually with focus or evade already spent. He definitely layed out the hurt.

The turret is also a game changer, forcing the agile TIEs to chase you in ways they never would fighting x-wings. This disrupts their line and causes traffic jams at times, all the while they are constantly forced to choose between focusing down the falcon and chasing it or dealing with the x-wings. Either way, a powerful rebel attack ship will usually have it's pick of shots.

Things could have been very different though, my opponent took a high cost list, Vader/swarm, Soontir/swarm, Dark Curse and two academy ties. His plan was to chain the swarms to essentially have 4 PS9 ships... in the first round though, I managed to roll 3 hits with the falcon on Soontir at range 3, which gave my opponent 4 defence dice... somehow, he managed to whiff all 4 with blanks... he stared forelornly at his focus as he removed a very expensive ship and the lynchpin of his battle plan before he even got to take off his jacket and sit down lol.

Neither of us are experts by any means, but my first impression was very positive, I liked the way it played, I loved being able to more or less guarantee 2 hits a round or so averaged out, I loved being able to focus on being evasive and just avoiding arcs instead of worrying about getting them in mine, I loved the tankiness of it... I loved having more freedom to manoeuvre my x-wings along with it, chaining my swarm tactics in unexpected ways as the x-wings danced in and out of range one at a time. It definitely fit my preferred style of play I think.

So ya, I rate it pretty darn high atm.

Queue someone telling me I completely misunderstood the chaining of the shooting rules of that particular combo lol :S

No, you have it right. Swarm Tactics lets you nominate another ship for shooting as though they were the equipped ship's pilot skill. They still move first though, since it's only in Combat Phase. Your opponent clearly doesn't know how to play, IMO. I fielded a Vader+Swarm+Missiles, Backstabber, Howlrunner, Alpha Squadron Interceptor and Academy Fighter today against Falcon, 1 X-Wing, 1 A-Wing. I ignored the smaller ships and focused the Falcon down. I lost two ships in the process (Including Howlrunner who died on Turn 1 much like your opponent's Soontir), but killed it on Turn 3 even with poor manuevers. After that, it was relatively simple to out-maneuver and kill the smaller ships. If anyone puts that many points into a YT-130, the rest of their ships are going to be low pilot skill ships, meaning that you eliminate the main threat, and the rest are easy.

Also, Soontir is too expensive and too specialized to give Swarm Tactics, IMHO. Most of the time his own allies would be out of range, or he would be stuck not using his maneuverability to his advantage. Dark Curse is also not that great unless you're making him a tank, in which case he just gets ignored...

Yup, mercenary copilot and HLC on a firespray. Preferably with krassis trelix (sic?) as a pilot to sweeten it that little bit extra. Works like a charm.

Prefer to spice it up with some proximity mine, nearly always gets enemy in trouble when the enemy tries to follow me through the asteroids.

 Duncan_Idaho wrote:

Yup, mercenary copilot and HLC on a firespray. Preferably with krassis trelix (sic?) as a pilot to sweeten it that little bit extra. Works like a charm.

Prefer to spice it up with some proximity mine, nearly always gets enemy in trouble when the enemy tries to follow me through the asteroids.

I always preferred the other one. Proximity Mines are too reliant on them flying to follow you, and restricts your own movements too. It's too easy to avoid. Plus you can still roll 3 blanks on the damage chart rather than a guaranteed 1 hit on everything in a Range 1 radius...

Same here - the one damage guaranteed one 'feels' more effective to me as well. Played merry hell on a TIE swarm with that first time I used it - ever since it seens swarms tend to break formation whenever I deploy that thing (thus reducing their effectiveness!)

Played first game tonight against a friend with the starter - My Luke Skywalker destroyed his TIEs without a scratch in return

Now off to eBay to look for ships

Question about this, well two actually. One is how is everyone storing their ships? They seem rather...awkwardly sized.

Also going from the starter, whats the best way to go about expanding slowly? I know 2 of everything etc, but would good first purchases be a tie advance+ second x-wing? Got a normally none wargame friend interested in this.

 doc1234 wrote:
Question about this, well two actually. One is how is everyone storing their ships? They seem rather...awkwardly sized.

Also going from the starter, whats the best way to go about expanding slowly? I know 2 of everything etc, but would good first purchases be a tie advance+ second x-wing? Got a normally none wargame friend interested in this.

If you keep the vaccuformed plastic things the booster ships come in, you can fit four of them (2 on each side) in the starter box for a total of 7 ships you can keep in "custom" plastic for free (or two more if you cut out the central part as well for 9 ships in each starter box. If you've got multiple starters, that obviously means you can store 14. I haven't tried to fit the bigger Mill Falc sized stuff though.

 doc1234 wrote:
Question about this, well two actually. One is how is everyone storing their ships? They seem rather...awkwardly sized.

Also going from the starter, whats the best way to go about expanding slowly? I know 2 of everything etc, but would good first purchases be a tie advance+ second x-wing? Got a normally none wargame friend interested in this.

I always store my ships in the starter set box. I still don't know how I'm going to carry around the Slave 1 I have.

Two non-FFG releases that may be usefull to X-Wing players (and the first one also to BFG players):

Deep Cut Studio will soon release a battle mat (currently for reduced preorder price until 8th July):
http://www.deepcutstudio.com/product/wargames-terrain-mat-4-x6-nebula-theme-preorder


CorSec Engineering released a template/deck organizer/holder:
http://corseceng.com/blog/2013/6/24/new-product-starfighter-templatedeck-holder.html

 MajorTom11 wrote:
That, and Han plus gunner essentially gives you the ability to roll 3 times for free.

Actually you can shoot up to four times with that combo.....Han's ability works with the Gunner's shot as well. Han shoots. If he doesn't like the roll he rolls again. Then the defender rolls. If Han misses then the Gunner takes his shot and can reroll, using Han's ability, if he doesn't like the result.

Are most people finding that they're focusing on one faction over another? I've picked up the starter box (or will once my FLGS gets it from one of his other stores), the Millennium Falcon, and a Tie Advanced. I'm planning on going whole hog rebels. Should I pick up Imperials or just not worry about it?

Edit: Must it always be Rebels vs. Imperials? Or can it be Rebels vs. Rebels/Imperials vs. Imperials?

Its possible to do Rebels vs Rebels. All you need to do to distinguish your models and your opponent's is to place those numbered pieces that come with the starter set on your models. They aren't just there for duplicate ships and they are also double sided.

 Alfndrate wrote:
Are most people finding that they're focusing on one faction over another? I've picked up the starter box (or will once my FLGS gets it from one of his other stores), the Millennium Falcon, and a Tie Advanced. I'm planning on going whole hog rebels. Should I pick up Imperials or just not worry about it?

Edit: Must it always be Rebels vs. Imperials? Or can it be Rebels vs. Rebels/Imperials vs. Imperials?

People pick up both sides for the cards. For example, Push The Limit I believe comes with the A-Wing set, but it's honestly the best pilot upgrade card for a Soontir Fel or Darth Vader, which will allow them to perform 3 or 4 actions per turn alone.

 Alfndrate wrote:
Are most people finding that they're focusing on one faction over another? I've picked up the starter box (or will once my FLGS gets it from one of his other stores), the Millennium Falcon, and a Tie Advanced. I'm planning on going whole hog rebels. Should I pick up Imperials or just not worry about it?

Edit: Must it always be Rebels vs. Imperials? Or can it be Rebels vs. Rebels/Imperials vs. Imperials?

If you download the tournament rules from the Xwing site it says in the rules that even if the last two people are left and they both wish to play the same faction. Then it is perfectly fine. So friendly games I see no issue at all either apart from some anti fluff. Unless you label it as a training mission lol.

Also on the site it's worth bearing in mined that you can download the PDF rule book latest FAQ and fleet sheets for recording Your fleets. Plus thorny rules with a few extra missions.