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Mogul Kamir.
Those rough riders whose mobility you wanted to exploit so you could hit that termi squad and frak em up with their one-use explosive lances? Forget them, they now charge the nearest enemy, how useful....

Daedricbob wrote:Mogul Kamir.
Those rough riders whose mobility you wanted to exploit so you could hit that termi squad and frak em up with their one-use explosive lances? Forget them, they now charge the nearest enemy, how useful....

He also has Furious Charge, which is amazingly helpful when your weapon forces you to strike at S5 and I5 when charging into combat, and is unnaffected by FC. Also tons of fun when you realise that he won't be alive long enough to lead a second charge into anything in order to gain the bonus.

Juniperius wrote:The Space Pope, The only thing in existance that makes you pay a whopping 250 points to make your army WORSE.
They couldn t have given us tau a worse slap to the face.

So, wait, you just payed for a Land Raider and got a deadweight instead?

Why do you hate Tau, GW?

Why?

TermiesInARaider wrote:The Forge World LRs, apparently, can leave much to be desired. The LRH, with a Whirlwind launcher up top instead of the heavy bolter, sounds nice... Except for two things. The launcher itself, according to some, can be easily countered by spacing, though I find it works well anyways. In addition, you've still got a transport capacity of 6 marines or three terminators... Which means if you want the most bang for your buck, you're gonna put something in there that fits the Helios... Basically, that means Devastators. The combination could be devastating... Except the LRH is expensive, many would say overly so, and the Devastators are VERY expensive. And that takes up two HS slots, a valuable commodity for Codex Marines.

I really wonder why the Land Raider Helios even has transport capacity. It's loadout clearly signifies a vehicle that is not meant to get even remotely close to the enemy. I'd personally think it'd be made better if they went the route of the Ares and the Terminus Ultra and stripped out the carrying capacity in favour of two heavy or one superheavy weapon. I'd personally say two (not twinlinked) autocannons would suit it nicely for some added long range dakka.

Hikaru-119 wrote:
I have actually used rough riders before. Buddy of mine loaned me some bikes to use as counts as for a few games. Was really debating on making a bunch of conversions to justify using them. Sadly they always under performed. By time they generally got to combat (including being a real stickler about cover) the local meta makes it so they just get slaughtered whole sale. Not worth it. And the one time use of the lances sucks. Maybe if they didn't just lose their one time use I'd be okay with it, but because it's just gone....no.

That's fair enough, in my games as mech guard I nearly always find enemy elite assault units running around my lines, so rough riders don't struggle to find and engage targets. I assumed other gaurd armies would be the same.
Out of interest, who do you usually play against? And are you mech/foot/hybrid/whatever?

Joey wrote:

Hikaru-119 wrote:I have actually used rough riders before. Buddy of mine loaned me some bikes to use as counts as for a few games. Was really debating on making a bunch of conversions to justify using them. Sadly they always under performed. By time they generally got to combat (including being a real stickler about cover) the local meta makes it so they just get slaughtered whole sale. Not worth it. And the one time use of the lances sucks. Maybe if they didn't just lose their one time use I'd be okay with it, but because it's just gone....no.

That's fair enough, in my games as mech guard I nearly always find enemy elite assault units running around my lines, so rough riders don't struggle to find and engage targets. I assumed other gaurd armies would be the same.
Out of interest, who do you usually play against? And are you mech/foot/hybrid/whatever?

Well, Rough Riders are the bane of Terminators. Str 5 Power Weapons at Initiative 5? Striking before LCs, 10 Attacks form a 5 man unit, Power Weapons that wound on 3+.

Pretty damned effective, being able to decimate or make a unit of Termies run (unless they have TH/SS, in which case you're screwed.)

Furies...Just why??? If they were troops, with a price cut, they might just be useful. Even Beasts of Nurgle and Screamers can have uses (principally in a Tallyman list though..) but Furies?? Not with a thousand foot pole..

Kain wrote:

TermiesInARaider wrote:The Forge World LRs, apparently, can leave much to be desired. The LRH, with a Whirlwind launcher up top instead of the heavy bolter, sounds nice... Except for two things. The launcher itself, according to some, can be easily countered by spacing, though I find it works well anyways. In addition, you've still got a transport capacity of 6 marines or three terminators... Which means if you want the most bang for your buck, you're gonna put something in there that fits the Helios... Basically, that means Devastators. The combination could be devastating... Except the LRH is expensive, many would say overly so, and the Devastators are VERY expensive. And that takes up two HS slots, a valuable commodity for Codex Marines.

I really wonder why the Land Raider Helios even has transport capacity. It's loadout clearly signifies a vehicle that is not meant to get even remotely close to the enemy. I'd personally think it'd be made better if they went the route of the Ares and the Terminus Ultra and stripped out the carrying capacity in favour of two heavy or one superheavy weapon. I'd personally say two (not twinlinked) autocannons would suit it nicely for some added long range dakka.

To me, the Helios was always begging for a five-six man Devastator squad, but... EGH! The LR is expensive, the Devs are expensive, both could be argued to be somewhat underwhelming, so you get a big ol' deathstar that has no guarentee of pulling its weight and takes up two HS slots. Granted, I may just be crazy enough to try that, but still. Blech.

Hm... Autocannons on a LR? Why not twin-linked, rifleman dreads have 'em... Still, I sense a homebrew in the mix...

Joey wrote:

Hikaru-119 wrote:
I have actually used rough riders before. Buddy of mine loaned me some bikes to use as counts as for a few games. Was really debating on making a bunch of conversions to justify using them. Sadly they always under performed. By time they generally got to combat (including being a real stickler about cover) the local meta makes it so they just get slaughtered whole sale. Not worth it. And the one time use of the lances sucks. Maybe if they didn't just lose their one time use I'd be okay with it, but because it's just gone....no.

That's fair enough, in my games as mech guard I nearly always find enemy elite assault units running around my lines, so rough riders don't struggle to find and engage targets. I assumed other gaurd armies would be the same.
Out of interest, who do you usually play against? And are you mech/foot/hybrid/whatever?

I normally run two vendettas, two russes, 2 chimeras (for company command squad and platoon command squad), harker with her girls carrying melta, assorted heavy weapons, and a blob. Odd mix, but the synergy works very well. Most units don't make it to my lines. And those that do usually get tar pitted against my blob.

I usually fight dark eldar, tau (well I used to a lot), grey knights, space wolves and nids. Hence my odd all comers list.

Yeah, the hydra v. exterminator debate becomes really, really obvious once you face off across ML long fang spam, or against vendettas or hydras. Or scatter lasers. There is a lot of stuff out there that can hurt a hydra. Exterminators are more of a pain in the butt to kill.

That's the point of russes in general compare to their non-russ counterparts. They do half the damage for their points, but they survive for twice as long, which evens it out.

As for rough riders, they're a fantastic unit, but you've really, really got to use them right or else they're just expensive guardsmen.

If you put them in reserve, turn 2 or 3 they show up and can threaten anything on your half of the board without being able to be shot at first. And by threaten, I mean obliterate a shocking amount in close combat.

Time 2 Roll wrote:Pryovore

Flamers are cool but this thing is long dead before it ever gets in shooting range.

Then put two in a Pod and drop them RIGHT NEXT to something. It is how I use them. DO they die quickly? Yeah, but they can melt a squad or two before they go out. At least, of non-MEQ opponents. My buddy who plays IG HATES my pyrovores.

For the same points there's so many better uses of that elite slot.

Two heavy flamers in a pod is the best you can come up with? Really?

rigeld2 wrote:For the same points there's so many better uses of that elite slot.

Two heavy flamers in a pod is the best you can come up with? Really?

My buddy uses masses of foot guard in close defensive positions. Yeah. It works really damn well.

I didn't say it works against everybody. Hell, it doesn't work in MOST cases. But if you have some bunched up enemies they can roast them and make their points up. Plus the spore sticks around for an extra turn or two doing damage.

Hive Guard. They can take hits. They look awesome. They can't kill a thing.

DA Assault Squad gets my vote, they're expensive, subpar performance in both shooting and cc, cannot take melta, and take up slots that could be used for either bikes (possibly troops) or Typhoons. Don't get me wrong, they do fine sitting behind devastators and charging whatever gets too close, but they are a bit expensive for a throwaway unit.

Meh, most of the stuff in the DA codex is underwhelming. Only DW and RW aren't (90 points for a Tac squad? Really?), at least compared to the vanilla book.

Most units in the Tau army that isn't a Hammerhead or Forgeworld.

DragonRider wrote:Hive Guard. They can take hits. They look awesome. They can't kill a thing.

Except rhinos, chimeras, pretty much anything AV12 or below.
6 Strength 8 shots against anything in range regardless of LOS, and virtually impossible to get cover from? You're using them wrong, friend.

Yeah, my DE would disagree about their lack of killing power

So would my Orks, for that matter...

They won't kill LR's in one-shot drops, but try them out on trukks and Raiders sometime


Unless you meant Tyrant Guard (the bodyguard for Tyrants)?

Unless you meant Tyrant Guard (the bodyguard for Tyrants)?

It's likely he did, since tanking power, yes lack of really good killing seems to match those rather well.

Fenrisian Wolves!

Overpriced Ork Boyz with no guns, a worse leadership, and no furious charge.

Thanks, GW! I wanted wolves in my Space Wolves, but you fethed them up! Now all I have is an overpriced Harassment unit!

the most pathictic unit in the necron army is prations or what ever thier is 200 points for jump packs power wepons and a wepon that only shoots if you get within 6 inches when they basically they use them on terminators once and die i would prefere thier old cousins the piriars and thier ablity to kill all they see are the triarch terminators or powerful assult marines i don't care for those pistols that give them a secound shot in close combat put them against the number of imortals point wise who wins? the answer is obious [spoiler] imortals
"The triarch a pityful thing trying to unity yet thy are so weak they will crumble before they can stop anything" every Intelgent thing that thinks about the triarch pratorians
3,100

robot deathrider wrote:the most pathictic unit in the necron army is prations or what ever thier is 200 points for jump packs power wepons and a wepon that only shoots if you get within 6 inches when they basically they use them on terminators once and die i would prefere thier old cousins the piriars and thier ablity to kill all they see are the triarch terminators or powerful assult marines i don't care for those pistols that give them a secound shot in close combat put them against the number of imortals point wise who wins? the answer is obious [spoiler] imortals
"The triarch a pityful thing trying to unity yet thy are so weak they will crumble before they can stop anything" every Intelgent thing that thinks about the triarch pratorians
3,100

...What?

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

robot deathrider wrote:the most pathictic unit in the necron army is prations or what ever thier is 200 points for jump packs power wepons and a wepon that only shoots if you get within 6 inches when they basically they use them on terminators once and die i would prefere thier old cousins the piriars and thier ablity to kill all they see are the triarch terminators or powerful assult marines i don't care for those pistols that give them a secound shot in close combat put them against the number of imortals point wise who wins? the answer is obious [spoiler] imortals
"The triarch a pityful thing trying to unity yet thy are so weak they will crumble before they can stop anything" every Intelgent thing that thinks about the triarch pratorians
3,100

...What?

I think he's saying Praetorians are pathetic compared to the Pariahs, and something about survivability, then saying that it'd be better just to purchase immortals...

I yearn for the day that forum posting via phone is outlawed.

Nids: Ripper Swarms

BA: Toss up between Tactical or Techmarine

GK: Strike Squad, as with the Vanilla Tactical Marines, the GK jack of all trades is a master of none, and I can never see taking them over termies/paladins/purifiers unless its a really low point game or ur making a DK/Psyfleman/Storm Raven spam list...

The space pope for tau-So I pay 205 points for a dude who is instakilled by T6, has no guns or power weapons in his unit and fights at I1. Yeah.... that is cool. OH WAIT, he can go and die and make my army run away. If they don't, then my units who are completely awful in CC get furious charge. Oh boy, now were hitting at the same time as guardsman, but now were S4, because we charged instead of shooting. And we get re rolls to hit....oh wait, they have a power weapon?

Absolute ass. More ass than vespids(at least vespids can kill marines in theory).

As far as eldar, why is everybody hating on guardians? They crumple like wet cardboard, but they get special weapons. Triple flamers and a destructor lock to rival bladestorm. Even as defenders they can do damage to infantry and light armor with a scatter laser. No they are not great, but compared to our worst unit they are.

Shining spears...holy god are these absolutely awful. Not space pope awful, but a unit of 5 costs more and is still easy to kill. At least they have power weapons...on the charge.

Raptors or Chaos Spawn. Either are worthless and a waste

Vanilla SM - Vanguard Vets
Blood Angels - Tactical Squad
Tau - Vespids
Dark Eldar - Mandrakes

Longfangs.