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 tyrannosaurus wrote:
I keep my expectations of Black Library books very low, which most of the time avoids disappointment. Let's face it, if these authors were A list they wouldn't be writing for BL, they would be creating their own stuff. I listen to the audiobooks because I love the 40k universe, not because they're particularly well written..

The only BL book that has blown me away as a novel was Space Marine by Ian Watson. I've read that about 8 times and I still love it. Also anything by Jack Yeovil is brilliant too. ADB is completely overrated, really enjoyed the first of the Night Lords trilogy but the rest of the stuff has been pretty mediocre to downright dull.

Back to the Horus Heresy, it really depends on the author. Graham McNeill and Dan Abnett are pretty safe bets [although McNeill is really annoying me with his portrayal of Fulgrim & the Emperor's Children in Angel Exterminatus] , anyone else is hit or mostly miss. James Swallow is really growing on me.

Look around, not all of them write just for BL. Gav Thorpe alone has written a fantasy series outside of BL. Dan Abnett has written for Dr Who, need I go on?

 Azza007 wrote:

 tyrannosaurus wrote:
I keep my expectations of Black Library books very low, which most of the time avoids disappointment. Let's face it, if these authors were A list they wouldn't be writing for BL, they would be creating their own stuff. I listen to the audiobooks because I love the 40k universe, not because they're particularly well written..

The only BL book that has blown me away as a novel was Space Marine by Ian Watson. I've read that about 8 times and I still love it. Also anything by Jack Yeovil is brilliant too. ADB is completely overrated, really enjoyed the first of the Night Lords trilogy but the rest of the stuff has been pretty mediocre to downright dull.

Back to the Horus Heresy, it really depends on the author. Graham McNeill and Dan Abnett are pretty safe bets [although McNeill is really annoying me with his portrayal of Fulgrim & the Emperor's Children in Angel Exterminatus] , anyone else is hit or mostly miss. James Swallow is really growing on me.

Look around, not all of them write just for BL. Gav Thorpe alone has written a fantasy series outside of BL. Dan Abnett has written for Dr Who, need I go on?

Abnett also wrote a very good Sci.Fi thriller called Embedded. Highly recommended.

 Shlazaor wrote:
consistently I see meaningful storylines and characters tossed aside in favor of warporn. I understand. That's what a lot of people want to read. Nothing wrong with that. I love action in books too. But I need more than just that

I've come to the conclusion that it's the authors, not the readers that are the problem. Writing good characters and storylines is hard. Writing meaningless bolter-porn is easy.

I like most of the HH series, some books are boring and pointless, the dan abnett books are my favorite, legion is my fav so far but still have a few to read

Just started re-reading Horus Rising. Excellent.

 Omegus wrote:
I don't see what's harsh about his statement. That whole story probably would have been better told in one book, or at least by one author. That way we wouldn't have the inconsistencies of Russ's characterizations. Is he the Russell Crowe-esque belligerent donkey-cave of ATS? Or is he the somehow even more ridiculous wet-leopard-growling thinking man's barbarian of PB?

I liked that the two different books are written in two different styles with two very different biases. I'd say it's a tribute to Graham McNeill's writing that so many people renewed their loathing for the Wolves (and, by the way, have started to hate the Emperor's Children). Abnett's literary crutches are kind of annoying, but that's the case in everything he's ever written.

I already liked the Wolves and embraced their deep denial, so I like both books.

 DarthMarko wrote:

 KingDeath wrote:
For the year 2020 i predict Horus Heresy 92, The Battle Lavatory 8.
Buy the story of Brothercaptain Honorius's epic struggle with a chaos infested burrito, which will surely determine the outcome of the Horus Heresy.

Your comment would be funny if it wasn't bound to happen....

I doubt Brother Captain Honorious problem is being bound where a chaos infested burrito is concerned. Quite the opposite, I suspect.

I reread Battle for the Abyss recently. It wasn't that bad. It just didn't add very much to the arc other giving a bit more flesh and bones to the World Eaters and Thousand Sons.

Fotherington-Thomas wrote:

 DarthMarko wrote:

 KingDeath wrote:
For the year 2020 i predict Horus Heresy 92, The Battle Lavatory 8.
Buy the story of Brothercaptain Honorius's epic struggle with a chaos infested burrito, which will surely determine the outcome of the Horus Heresy.

Your comment would be funny if it wasn't bound to happen....

I doubt Brother Captain Honorious problem is being bound where a chaos infested burrito is concerned. Quite the opposite, I suspect.

I reread Battle for the Abyss recently. It wasn't that bad. It just didn't add very much to the arc other giving a bit more flesh and bones to the World Eaters and Thousand Sons.

I quite liked Battle for the Abyss. But I tend to enjoy space-navy stuff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DarthMarko wrote:
And I' dont agree that mournival was boring (Torgaddon= jester,Abbadon = bully, Aximand = in the middle of everything; and Loken was awesome)

Well, that's kinda the point. You shouldn't be able to summarise people in a single world. Real people are complicated, and the Mournival reads like the author just wanted a collection of totally flat, single aspect characters. Why was Abaddon a bully? Did he care about the men under his command? Why would Torgaddon constantly make jokes about everything? Where were the other facets of their personalities? And Loken, ugh, the most boring of them all. At least the others had defining characteristics. Loken was a totally flat, boring, blank canvas.

Seems like a bit of a contradiction. "You shouldn't be able to just sum up their personalities in one word." "Loken is the worst of the bunch, you can't sum him up in one word."

Normal human beings don't have defining characteristics, and are generally blank canvases with multiple personality quirks sprinkled on, and I think that was intended for Loken. Aside from being "Mr. Straight up and down", he, above all the others in the Mournival, was the most human, and it was in fact his humanity that allowed him to not get caught up in the fervor that swept the Astartes into the Horus Heresy. I would say that that is certainly his defining characteristic, and it's also why he's the most interesting character in the Heresy. He's the character that allows you to see into the Universe.

That's the beauty of it. They aren't people. They're Astartes. The Emperor had the brilliant plan of taking pre-adolescents and turning them into demigods. They never really emotionally develop beyond being about 12 years old because they are forcefully separated from anyone and everyone who's grown up to live a normal life and all they know are the previous generation of emotionally stunted transhumans.

Some are pretty good, a lot of them are bad. A lot of their writers can't really write dialogue at all. I find Dan Abnett seems to be more capable than any of the others.

That and the audiobook narration is hilariously awful.

 MrScience wrote:
Some are pretty good, a lot of them are bad. A lot of their writers can't really write dialogue at all. I find Dan Abnett seems to be more capable than any of the others.

That and the audiobook narration is hilariously awful.

C'mon man, Martyn Ellis was brilliant and that guy who narrated "Outcast dead" is also good...

I really like the audio dramas. They're a he'll of a lot more enjoyable then watching Ultramarine. That movie was terrible. Not to mention full of more holes and nonsense then listening to political ads.

It was actually rather shocking how bad Ultramarines was.

I mean, I get that they had a limited run time they could work with and the limitation of the medium, but the plot was absolutely nonsensical.

Especially given that they had actual, legitimate voice talent, you'd think they would have created at least a C Level product, lol.

 SgtSixkilla wrote:

 Azza007 wrote:

 tyrannosaurus wrote:
I keep my expectations of Black Library books very low, which most of the time avoids disappointment. Let's face it, if these authors were A list they wouldn't be writing for BL, they would be creating their own stuff. I listen to the audiobooks because I love the 40k universe, not because they're particularly well written..

The only BL book that has blown me away as a novel was Space Marine by Ian Watson. I've read that about 8 times and I still love it. Also anything by Jack Yeovil is brilliant too. ADB is completely overrated, really enjoyed the first of the Night Lords trilogy but the rest of the stuff has been pretty mediocre to downright dull.

Back to the Horus Heresy, it really depends on the author. Graham McNeill and Dan Abnett are pretty safe bets [although McNeill is really annoying me with his portrayal of Fulgrim & the Emperor's Children in Angel Exterminatus] , anyone else is hit or mostly miss. James Swallow is really growing on me.

Look around, not all of them write just for BL. Gav Thorpe alone has written a fantasy series outside of BL. Dan Abnett has written for Dr Who, need I go on?

Abnett also wrote a very good Sci.Fi thriller called Embedded. Highly recommended.

Agreed, it was an excellent book! I'm also glad to help to support a writer for their own projects, as I can't imagine them getting much in the way of royalties from BL. Dan is also known for his work on writing for 2000AD, so I'm glad BL has chosen him for the forthcoming comic book (books?) they are releasing.

 DarthMarko wrote:

 MrScience wrote:
Some are pretty good, a lot of them are bad. A lot of their writers can't really write dialogue at all. I find Dan Abnett seems to be more capable than any of the others.

That and the audiobook narration is hilariously awful.

C'mon man, Martyn Ellis was brilliant and that guy who narrated "Outcast dead" is also good...

A lot of it is just way too cheesy for me.

Okay, first off let me say that overall I'm very impressed with the Horus Heresy series of books - Granted some writers are better than others but for a multi book multi author series it carries along fairly well...

My one nitpick with the series is as follows;

In my own personal interpretation of the time line laid down prior to 'The Outcast Dead' - It would seem that after Nikea but prior to Istvaan Magnus becomes aware of Horus's impending treachery he attempts to warn the Emperor, this warning is dismissed as being an excuse to have the Nikea edict revoked. The Space Wolves are dispatched to Prospero and are therefore unavailable to join the other seven legions sent to put down Horus's fledgling Rebellion on Istvaan.

However in 'The Outcast Dead' it seems (to me at least) that the Warning from Magnus arrives after the dropsite massacre and only then are the Space Wolves dispatched to Prospero. Now in the previous books Leman Russ is referred to several times as the Emperor's executioner, the Space Wolves the legion who will do what other legions will not. So if the revised time line is indeed the current canon time line. Why aren't the Space Wolves en route with the other Seven Legions to Istvaan. Secondly why would the Emperor be upset with Magnus for trying to warn him to Horus's betrayal?

Furthermore if 'The Outcast Dead' is right why in 'Fear To Tread' do the Space Wolves dispatched to watch over Sanguinius fail to mention that the Word Bearers are traitors and that Sanguinius probably doesn't want to be taking orders from Horus...

Did anyone else notice this or is my understanding of the timeline distorted?

 Corso Vitt wrote:
Okay, first off let me say that overall I'm very impressed with the Horus Heresy series of books - Granted some writers are better than others but for a multi book multi author series it carries along fairly well...

My one nitpick with the series is as follows;

In my own personal interpretation of the time line laid down prior to 'The Outcast Dead' - It would seem that after Nikea but prior to Istvaan Magnus becomes aware of Horus's impending treachery he attempts to warn the Emperor, this warning is dismissed as being an excuse to have the Nikea edict revoked. The Space Wolves are dispatched to Prospero and are therefore unavailable to join the other seven legions sent to put down Horus's fledgling Rebellion on Istvaan.

However in 'The Outcast Dead' it seems (to me at least) that the Warning from Magnus arrives after the dropsite massacre and only then are the Space Wolves dispatched to Prospero. Now in the previous books Leman Russ is referred to several times as the Emperor's executioner, the Space Wolves the legion who will do what other legions will not. So if the revised time line is indeed the current canon time line. Why aren't the Space Wolves en route with the other Seven Legions to Istvaan. Secondly why would the Emperor be upset with Magnus for trying to warn him to Horus's betrayal?

Furthermore if 'The Outcast Dead' is right why in 'Fear To Tread' do the Space Wolves dispatched to watch over Sanguinius fail to mention that the Word Bearers are traitors and that Sanguinius probably doesn't want to be taking orders from Horus...

Did anyone else notice this or is my understanding of the timeline distorted?

I think it could be explained as a misunderstanding of the populace? I mean news could travel slowly, or quickly depending on how severe the news is? Messages through the warp could also be delayed, or chaosy stuff. I dunno, just throwing ideas out there.

Outcast Dead is seriously screwed up, and the timeline being completely out of whack is only a part of it.

 Omegus wrote:
Outcast Dead is seriously screwed up, and the timeline being completely out of whack is only a part of it.

Spoiler:

An unarmed and unarmored World Eater punches a Custodian in full battle gear to death. Granted that Custodian was established as having damaged reflexes, but if he is so inept, why is he guarding the absolute highest security prison in the Imperium? That same World Eater then has trouble dealing with a human swordsman. Hrm.

The Thunder Warriors still live! Which would be a tantalizing tidbit if we didn't know that they are completely irrelevant in the 41st millennium. I mean, best case scenario they were able to use the geneseed to create a new chapter of Thunder Marines, and are either secretly serving the Imperium or are renegades. Which begs the question that if the Thunder Warriors could be converted to Space Marines so easily, why didn't the Emperor just do that instead of betraying them? The old excuse that the Thunder Warriors were too savage doesn't work, since he tolerated the likes of World Eaters and Night Lords (the latter of whom really really enjoyed skinning people). There's also the implication that someone is better than the Emperor at gene manipulation, a point that was also very irritating in Deliverance Lost.

Bah, I just disregard these two books for my personal interpretation of events. Deliverance Lost can be salvaged if the Alpha Legion is removed from the equation, which makes the story's events make more sense and jive more with the old Index Astartes. It's much more palatable if a non-scholarly primarch and a couple of humans exceed the Emperor in Marine creation in just a few months when the drawback is rampant mutation, without having an improbable impostor squirt chaos juice into it.

I can see some of your points here. But, that doesn't seem to take away from the books or series as a whole for me. I do find it kinda odd though that Corax would blame himself before looking into wither or not there was foul play. The books are still great.