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I second that. the LD bonus is a great addition, considering the bell curve makes 8 a rather common result.

I dont see why to bother with the BSF on firewarriors unless I have spare points lying around and really NOTHING to do with them though.

I guess part of the reason I haven't been taking the Shas'ui upgrade is that I tend to field lots of squads of 6x Fire Warriors... maybe instead i'll do 3-4 squads of 12 and see how that goes =)

In the few games i've played so far with tau i've found the Shas'ui to be a good choice with a markerlight upgrade.

That extra markerlight has given the option to use my pathfinders for more HVTs. That either the broadsides are targeting or to backup the crisis suits.

In regards to BSF's I admit I haven't put them on the firewarriors and so far it hasn't been a issue for me.

I think BSF upgrades are auto-includes for certain units (Broadsides, for instance) but the vast majority of the army operates between 12-30", and we don't have a lot of very high AP weapons - MEQ types, for instance, will prefer their power armor to any Shrouded save. I do think that Marker heavy armies should be using their lights to negate Night Fighting where possible, especially against hordes, since it'll save some 20-30 points in the long run.

Anything with Plasma Rifles should have a BSF, in my opinion. I don't want that space marine to have any save against my expensive gun. Even if it is only a 6+ cover save as he's standing out in the open, sods law says he'll make it at least enough of the time to be annoying.

Also Deathrains (and Fireknives for when they take shots at vehicles) should have one in there as their primary targets are light vehicles which now get a cover save at only 25% obscured, so you don't want to give them any extra bonus to that save. Even more so for Skimmers.

What do you guys think about advanced stability systems on broadsides? Are they worth the 10pts each? Do you guys move your broadsides a lot or do you mostly just keep them in one spot. Would it be worth forgoing ASS on three broadsides and taking an imperial bastion allowing the broadsides to hit almost anything because of their LOS.

Me personally I don't run A.S.S. ever. I sit them behind an aegis line about 10-12" from the table edge with clear 2-4' shooting paths depending on the setup and usually give them a bsf or targeting array. I keep them in one spot w/ plenty of coverage close to them or a small bubble wrap of 10 kroot. You want to force your opponent to come to you think 300 spartans. I'd forgo the bastion, would be a nice birds nest but how many points is that. Aegis is a lot cheaper and gives you 4 up on everything or 2 up on your hammerheads. Broadsides are nice but w/ the change to the damage chart I find myself not blowing stuff up more so than glancing them to death. I run a squad of 2 w/ shield drones and 2 plasma cannon hammerheads as my heavies. Seems to work good so far.

I use a 3-man A.S.S. team with team leader with Hard-Wired Multi-Tracker, Target lock and 2 shield drones.

Mobile railguns are amazing, able to hide when necessary and just walk out and light something up without sacrificing accuracy.

Means turn one they can deploy completely out of sight in case the opponent steals initiative (or had it to begin with) and are safe from being shot to bits before they have a chance to kill anything.

A.S.S. is awesome for when your opponent tries to block line of sight from your Broadsides but still attack the rest of your army - usually a 6 inch move from your Broadsides is enough to bring it into the line of fire.

If your broadsides are sitting on top of a bastion, then there is no A.S.S needed (tried it in one game and it was awesome. Has a lascannon farseer with the ignore cover power up there too). However any ground-based broadside unit should have them, and I used to use them all the time to great effect.

On a side note. WOOO 200!

Is A.S.S. considered a must take for a single broadside?

....a 2nd broadside is a must take for a single broadside.

Real answer is no.

Skyshield would be the best terrain with static broadsides. 4+ invul save, room for a couple of units and a Kroot bubblewrap, elevated field of view reduces opponent's chance to get behind cover and if they assault you they have to go through difficult terrain.

Alternate would be a bastion, which I would probably stick a sniper drone team on top of along with the broadsides within.

Jefffar wrote:

Alternate would be a bastion, which I would probably stick a sniper drone team on top of along with the broadsides within.

....aaaaand suddenly the reason for the Bulky rule on battlesuits and stealth suits becomes clear!




I played a game the other week with a deep strike suicide squad, packing all the anti-infantry weaponry I could mount on it.

I think it was.... cheap commander + 2 shas'vre... there was an A.S.S, an ion blaster, a burst cannon, and everyone had twin-linked flamers, and multitrackers.

They deep struck, got a direct hit, landing right next to a squad of Mandrakes and a squad of Kabalite warriors. Turned all those weapons on the warriors, killed all 17 warriors but not the squad leader. Next turn the mandrakes charged in, and all died to flamer overwatch (3xD3 rerollable wounds)

Obviously, against 3+ or 4+ it would have been very different...

 Micky wrote:

Jefffar wrote:

Alternate would be a bastion, which I would probably stick a sniper drone team on top of along with the broadsides within.

....aaaaand suddenly the reason for the Bulky rule on suits becomes clear!

Doesn't really have any effect though. Bulky means they count as two models but the Bastion can hold more than 6 models.

Also Broadsides aren't Jetpack Infantry, which is what what makes Crisis Suits and Stealth Suits Bulky, so RAW Broadsides are not Bulky and only count as one model for transport capacity purposes


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Micky wrote:

Speaking of A.S.S....


I played a game the other week with a deep strike suicide squad, packing all the anti-infantry weaponry I could mount on it.

I think it was.... cheap commander + 2 shas'vre... there was an A.S.S, an ion blaster, a burst cannon, and everyone had twin-linked flamers, and multitrackers.

They deep struck, got a direct hit, landing right next to a squad of Mandrakes and a squad of Kabalite warriors. Turned all those weapons on the warriors, killed all 17 warriors but not the squad leader. Next turn the mandrakes charged in, and all died to flamer overwatch (3xD3 rerollable wounds)

Obviously, against 3+ or 4+ it would have been very different...

Think you're talking about the Airburst Fragmentation Launcher, not the Advanced Stabilisation System which confers Slow and Purposeful as that would have no effect in the scenario you just described.

You are, of course, exactly right. Post edited to reflect this

new tau player here and finding the whole thread very useful but question came up in my head of shield drones vs gun drones.

is it better to get 3 gun drones to get some shots in and to take shots (up to 3 wounds for same price I'm thinking) for crisis suits or shield drones for 4+ invul but only 2 wounds?

Well for 1, each criss suit can only take 2 drones to begin with

So really you are comparing the extra shootign to the invul save and toughess boost.

Yes I said toughness boost. The gun drones are T3 and the Sheild Drones are T4 when attached to a crisis suit. Since the rolls to wound from shooting are based on the majority toughness on the unit, if the crisis suits get outnumbered by their drones the unit drops to Toughness 3.

Overall I prefer gun drones in independent squadrons or with Stealth teams.

Jefffar wrote:
Well for 1, each criss suit can only take 2 drones to begin with

So really you are comparing the extra shootign to the invul save and toughess boost.

Yes I said toughness boost. The gun drones are T3 and the Sheild Drones are T4 when attached to a crisis suit. Since the rolls to wound from shooting are based on the majority toughness on the unit, if the crisis suits get outnumbered by their drones the unit drops to Toughness 3.

Overall I prefer gun drones in independent squadrons or with Stealth teams.

Ahh, I totally forgot drone controller doesn't let you have more drones. Was thinking hard wired + a suit option but now I think on it, I guess it's the same wargear.

Now another question, I've been debating on eldrad + pathfinders giving him crazy cover behind an aegis but wondering if his special rule to reposition units in the army extended to Tau units?

Lastly, while I wait for some tetras to come in the mail, I'm debating on trying to fix up a 1500 points list.

HQ suit with missles/plasma
I got 3 squads of fire warriors (8 each) one with a d.fish
Plasma + missles crisis suits x3 with 2 shield drones x 2 (or maybe just 2 gun drones)

3 broadsides w/2 drones
2 rail hammer heads

+ ageis and quad gun + eldrad + pathfinders that comes in at 1700 points

Trying to get it down to 1500. what do you guys think I should do to shave 200 points and /or make it better?

sudojoe wrote:new tau player here and finding the whole thread very useful but question came up in my head of shield drones vs gun drones.

is it better to get 3 gun drones to get some shots in and to take shots (up to 3 wounds for same price I'm thinking) for crisis suits or shield drones for 4+ invul but only 2 wounds?

Personally, I look at it this way:

Gun Drones:
Stealth Suits - Cheaper, extra twin linked shots, more T3 wounds with a 3+ save / 4+ cover in the open / 2+ cover in cover.
Fire Warriors / Pathfinders - Effectively extra bodies, extra shots, and a higher Initiative for if / when you get swept.
Basic Battlesuits - If you're sinking points into extra wounds for suits, 20pts is better than 30pts, (even with the +1T and 4+* on basic suits I just don't see it as worth it) I though generally I'm not going to take them for basic suit squads anyway and if I am, it's 2 to a squad of 3 suits.

Shield Drones:
Broadsides - Broadsides LOVE shield drones, 2+ / 4+* is great. 2 per Broadside means you cover every approach with shield drones for an insanely hard unit.
Commanders - They're all right here, T4 3+ / 4+* is OK and the commander is generally a little more important.
Commanders with Iridium Armour - Same as Broadsides in this respect - 2 T4 2+ / 4+* wounds on top of the 3-4 T4 2+ wounds on the commander is worth the 50pts.

 sudojoe wrote:

Jefffar wrote:
Well for 1, each criss suit can only take 2 drones to begin with

So really you are comparing the extra shootign to the invul save and toughess boost.

Yes I said toughness boost. The gun drones are T3 and the Sheild Drones are T4 when attached to a crisis suit. Since the rolls to wound from shooting are based on the majority toughness on the unit, if the crisis suits get outnumbered by their drones the unit drops to Toughness 3.

Overall I prefer gun drones in independent squadrons or with Stealth teams.

Ahh, I totally forgot drone controller doesn't let you have more drones. Was thinking hard wired + a suit option but now I think on it, I guess it's the same wargear.

Now another question, I've been debating on eldrad + pathfinders giving him crazy cover behind an aegis but wondering if his special rule to reposition units in the army extended to Tau units?

Lastly, while I wait for some tetras to come in the mail, I'm debating on trying to fix up a 1500 points list.

HQ suit with missles/plasma
I got 3 squads of fire warriors (8 each) one with a d.fish
Plasma + missles crisis suits x3 with 2 shield drones x 2 (or maybe just 2 gun drones)

3 broadsides w/2 drones
2 rail hammer heads

+ ageis and quad gun + eldrad + pathfinders that comes in at 1700 points

Trying to get it down to 1500. what do you guys think I should do to shave 200 points and /or make it better?

For a 1500 point game, I found that two railheads and one broadside usually gives you enough railguns. If you need to cut points, the easiest way IMO would be drop one broadside, and switch Eldrad out for a Farseer with two powers, and all of those fancy runes and stones.
Were you going to swap out his powers or stick with the codex ones?

Alternatively, take out a squad of fire warriors.

well as I have no marker lights in the list, I was using eldrad for the accuracy boost mostly. Lots of people forget but you can't use the same power twice in the same turn so only eldrad can buff 2 units with divination (twin linking)

while the other farseer is limited to 2 different powers which may or may not be in range of anything

For a 1500 point game, I found that two railheads and one broadside usually gives you enough railguns. If you need to cut points, the easiest way IMO would be drop one broadside, and switch Eldrad out for a Farseer with two powers, and all of those fancy runes and stones.
Were you going to swap out his powers or stick with the codex ones?

Alternatively, take out a squad of fire warriors.

don't I need around 3-4 troops for 1500? 3 small groups seem kind of risky to me but I shall try it. Alternatively I also have a bunch more crisis suits. Total of 12 crisis suits of varying builds (and I can always chop off arms if needed, there's always super glue!) and 4 broadsides, 2 raid heads, 1 d.fish. I picked up the army 2nd hand so I got what I got. Also have a sniper drone team in there with an etheral, 6 stealth team with one guy with a fusion blaster, 30 fire warriors total, 6 pathfinders with 3 rail rifles and 1 kroot. Figured I'll go order up 2 tetras next as my next upgrades to the army and probably another d.fish as the idea of mechtau appeals to me

1500 is so restrictive but oh so fun to balance around since it forces so many hard choices.

Drop one of the RailHeads, problem solved.

My 3 packets of sniper drones just arrived - no bubbles thankfully, but every single one is warped by the heat, ugh....

But in any case... keen to try these guys out once I have them assembled. Will let you know how a full 240pts of sniper works on the table, not just in the meta.

I shudder to think what 3 squads of sniper drones would cost in aus/nz, it's bad enough here.

I know I convert mine from regular drones rather than pay £30-40 a squad...

In 5th I found 1500pts to be the ideal game size for Tau (or at least for my Tau, which was light on railguns and suits). My point is, three missile pods, and four railguns should be enough in most cases to deal with vehicles (so you can drop a broadside). It should be at least close to the same in 6th.

IMHO the game size is a bit small for the point investment of Eldrad, as opposed to a regular seer using presience and another power (most of which are quite good). Or at least, right on the edge of where it becomes worth it or not. The regular seer can do most of the same stuff, for a lot less cost. And you need to drop 200 points

 Ovion wrote:
I shudder to think what 3 squads of sniper drones would cost in aus/nz, it's bad enough here.

I know I convert mine from regular drones rather than pay £30-40 a squad...

Got a guy in the UK to send them over. TBH i'd have rather made them out of gun drones too, but I didn't really have the bits to do it.

 DakkaHammer wrote:
In 5th I found 1500pts to be the ideal game size for Tau (or at least for my Tau, which was light on railguns and suits). My point is, three missile pods, and four railguns should be enough in most cases to deal with vehicles (so you can drop a broadside). It should be at least close to the same in 6th.

IMHO the game size is a bit small for the point investment of Eldrad, as opposed to a regular seer using presience and another power (most of which are quite good). Or at least, right on the edge of where it becomes worth it or not. The regular seer can do most of the same stuff, for a lot less cost. And you need to drop 200 points

You bring up excellent points dakkahammer. I will probably do a few test games against myself to see what would happen with just a farseer and short a broadside. I might need to go get some more bloody fire warriors up in this as I feel like my troops are fairly light still. The hammerheads I like 2 of just cause they are such excellent fire magnets and will hopefully survive with their 3+ cover's.

 Micky wrote:

 Ovion wrote:
I shudder to think what 3 squads of sniper drones would cost in aus/nz, it's bad enough here.

I know I convert mine from regular drones rather than pay £30-40 a squad...

Got a guy in the UK to send them over. TBH i'd have rather made them out of gun drones too, but I didn't really have the bits to do it.

UK retail? that's still a scary number (£24 a squad...)
I built mine out of Drone bits and a pulse rifle (needs... a Drone body, 3 Drone Pulse Carbines, a Pulse Rifle and 4 Drone Antenna per Sniper Drone body, then a Firewarrior, Battlesuit Shield, that... bobbly suit bit and another Drone Antenna.)

Currently I'm working towards building another 6 +2 DC. I'm mostly short antenna atm... and then I want to make another 9+3 so I can field 18 at 2000pts (because why not!)
Sadly my Tau Bitz box is running a little low on the Drone Antenna and Drone Pulse Carbines... (need to find someone with a whole ton spare, or buy a load more drones from ebay)

Ive actually just stuck a Pulse Rifle on an actual gun drone. It looks good enough, but there is a lack of Fire Warriors going spare to make a DC with.