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 Goat wrote:
For Purifier spam, on turn 1 do you move 12" per rhino and snap shoot heavy4 x2 psycannons or move 6" full BS 4 shots? Math hammer me plox.

Kind of completely depends on what you are shooting at and what the board looks like. With the way assault rules now, if you are moving 12' you can't disembark so you cannot assault till turn 3 at the earliest as you must dismount by turn 2.

If you don't care if you get charged then maybe just go run in.

If you are talking number of hits, that's pretty easy to answer as 4 shots at BS 4 (2.64 hits) is still going to be more hits than 8 hits at BS1 (1.336).

 sudojoe wrote:

 Goat wrote:
For Purifier spam, on turn 1 do you move 12" per rhino and snap shoot heavy4 x2 psycannons or move 6" full BS 4 shots? Math hammer me plox.

Kind of completely depends on what you are shooting at and what the board looks like. With the way assault rules now, if you are moving 12' you can't disembark so you cannot assault till turn 3 at the earliest as you must dismount by turn 2.

If you don't care if you get charged then maybe just go run in.

If you are talking number of hits, that's pretty easy to answer as 4 shots at BS 4 (2.64 hits) is still going to be more hits than 8 hits at BS1 (1.336).

Thank you. I was playing agianst IG and as they do, hide in a corner, I was wondering if I was helping or hurting myself trying to get to the corner ASAP and the shots I had to sacrifice getting there.

Oh hey, Draigo pictures for this page!

“And so his sword was reforged with the molten remains of Kar’Voth’s great daemonic axe, purged of daemonic taint… or was it?”


http://galefire.com/2012/09/trials-of-draigo-the-reforged-titansword/

Has anyone been using purgation squads lately. I am thinking of adding this to my list ...

Librarian, TDA, Nemesis Force Sword, 2*Divination 150
8 Purgation Squad, 4 Psycannons 240

I figure with prescience this squad handles AA, AT and Hordes reasonably well. Well AA is always a problem but two or three hull points can be removed each turn at least. Prescience certainly boosts the squad. I went with eight for a few ablative wounds and the odd 'look out sir'. The downside is that they replace Dreads which function well as AA but with night fighting now they look good. I now cover saves have been reduced to 5+ but if I have 'LoS' I won't use astral aim if I feel safe enough. I'm more concerned with hiding my guys from damage. I generally use two DKs with Heavy Incinerators in my lists anyway. Is this a bad idea?

 felixcat wrote:

Has anyone been using purgation squads lately. I am thinking of adding this to my list ...

Librarian, TDA, Nemesis Force Sword, 2*Divination 150
8 Purgation Squad, 4 Psycannons 240

I figure with prescience this squad handles AA, AT and Hordes reasonably well. Well AA is always a problem but two or three hull points can be removed each turn at least. Prescience certainly boosts the squad. I went with eight for a few ablative wounds and the odd 'look out sir'. The downside is that they replace Dreads which function well as AA but with night fighting now they look good. I now cover saves have been reduced to 5+ but if I have 'LoS' I won't use astral aim if I feel safe enough. I'm more concerned with hiding my guys from damage. I generally use two DKs with Heavy Incinerators in my lists anyway. Is this a bad idea?

Purifiers can fill that exact roll for 8 points less. The strengths of purgation are access to free heavy incinerators and teleport homers. They should go great with cheap bare bones deep striking ndk.

 daedalus-templarius wrote:
Oh hey, Draigo pictures for this page!

“And so his sword was reforged with the molten remains of Kar’Voth’s great daemonic axe, purged of daemonic taint… or was it?”


http://galefire.com/2012/09/trials-of-draigo-the-reforged-titansword/

ooo very nice. That sword reminds me of something out of world of warcraft. Draigo looks pretty mean there.

btw, do you plan on doing anything with crowe and the purifiers or coteaz? I'm still a big purifier fan but developing a soft spot for henchmen lists since 6th.

Purifiers can fill that exact roll for 8 points less.

Not if you want four psycannons. They come to forty points more.

The strengths of purgation are access to free heavy incinerators and teleport homers.

One of their uses. My DK have teleportation packs anyway. They do not need a teleport homer. My GKSS could use one though when I DS a squad. I have anti-infantry as my list stands. I could drop one psycannon for an incinerator for sure but I lose four prescience psycannon shots. Not sure that is a good tradeoff. Psycabnons have good use in 6ed - Ive pummeled meq and hurt teq with them. Even 24" range is better than incinerator range. If I'm sitting on an objective I also like psycannons.

 felixcat wrote:

Has anyone been using purgation squads lately. I am thinking of adding this to my list ...

Librarian, TDA, Nemesis Force Sword, 2*Divination 150
8 Purgation Squad, 4 Psycannons 240

I figure with prescience this squad handles AA, AT and Hordes reasonably well. Well AA is always a problem but two or three hull points can be removed each turn at least. Prescience certainly boosts the squad. I went with eight for a few ablative wounds and the odd 'look out sir'. The downside is that they replace Dreads which function well as AA but with night fighting now they look good. I now cover saves have been reduced to 5+ but if I have 'LoS' I won't use astral aim if I feel safe enough. I'm more concerned with hiding my guys from damage. I generally use two DKs with Heavy Incinerators in my lists anyway. Is this a bad idea?

Are you using the Librarian out front to absorb fire? If not, using Coteaz is probably a better use of the points to get Prescience.

I'd never use a T3 model to absorb fire. In fact, if I saw someone put Coteaz in the front of a unit, that would be the first thing I shot at.

Coteaz goes with my henchmen squad to keep my servitors firing. I like the Libbie. Apart from his psychic boost he can always detach and join the strikes or even go off on his own to finish off a squad.

 sudojoe wrote:


ooo very nice. That sword reminds me of something out of world of warcraft. Draigo looks pretty mean there.

btw, do you plan on doing anything with crowe and the purifiers or coteaz? I'm still a big purifier fan but developing a soft spot for henchmen lists since 6th.

Thanks

That might be something to do after I finish this series with Draigo, still have like 3 pieces to go. Next is Nurgle's garden burnination.

 felixcat wrote:

Purifiers can fill that exact roll for 8 points less.

Not if you want four psycannons. They come to forty points more.

10 Purifiers with 4 psycannons. 280 pts

10 Purgators with 4 psycannons. 280 pts

But the Purifiers have cleansing flame, fearless, and 2 attacks each. And for 15 more points the squad will have 5 halberds and a Daemonhammer to increase their killing power.

 Stoffer wrote:
I'd never use a T3 model to absorb fire. In fact, if I saw someone put Coteaz in the front of a unit, that would be the first thing I shot at.

His T3 only comes into play for instant death purposes, as your use the majority toughness when rolling to wound, so either he is taking a 2+ AS against anything S5 or less, or he takes a 2+ LOS against anything S6 or more; either way it is more tactically beneficial to have him out front.

10 Purifiers with 4 psycannons. 280 pts

10 Purgators with 4 psycannons. 280 pts

I was not comparing ten to ten. It is a shooty squad out of LoS so I use seven or eight maximum in purgation squads. I'm looking for dakka not cc but I do see your point.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 Stoffer wrote:
I'd never use a T3 model to absorb fire. In fact, if I saw someone put Coteaz in the front of a unit, that would be the first thing I shot at.

His T3 only comes into play for instant death purposes, as your use the majority toughness when rolling to wound, so either he is taking a 2+ AS against anything S5 or less, or he takes a 2+ LOS against anything S6 or more; either way it is more tactically beneficial to have him out front.

No, having him infront is an awful tactical choice. Coteaz is a great utility character but an awful tank. If you have him infront you're playing him terribly and don't necessarily understand his value; you're basically playing him like he was Draigo.

If you fail a LOS against something fairly frequent like autocannons, plasma etc, you're throwing one of your most valuable pieces away. If you're just doing LOS on wounds anyway, why not have him in the back for the same effect? The most beneficial way to play Coteaz is to use his utility (making as much reroll hits every turn) and then hit with the hammer from the back. He's not a frontline model.

 Stoffer wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 Stoffer wrote:
I'd never use a T3 model to absorb fire. In fact, if I saw someone put Coteaz in the front of a unit, that would be the first thing I shot at.

His T3 only comes into play for instant death purposes, as your use the majority toughness when rolling to wound, so either he is taking a 2+ AS against anything S5 or less, or he takes a 2+ LOS against anything S6 or more; either way it is more tactically beneficial to have him out front.

No, having him infront is an awful tactical choice. Coteaz is a great utility character but an awful tank. If you have him infront you're playing him terribly and don't necessarily understand his value; you're basically playing him like he was Draigo.

If you fail a LOS against something fairly frequent like autocannons, plasma etc, you're throwing one of your most valuable pieces away. If you're just doing LOS on wounds anyway, why not have him in the back for the same effect? The most beneficial way to play Coteaz is to use his utility (making as much reroll hits every turn) and then hit with the hammer from the back. He's not a frontline model.

Guess I'm just playing him terribly and don't understand his value then; maybe I'm just an awful player...and yet I've only ever lost him twice, and so far have placed high in a tourney with only 4 out of 5 games while playing him that way. Pretty good for someone who plays him terribly and doesn't understand his value...

As for the question that should have an obvious answer; if you are just doing LOS anyway, why not have him at the back? The answer is obvious, and is also in my last post; to tank any shots of S5 or less. You can say what you want about it, but statistically the unit lasts longer playing him this way, so claiming otherwise on a basis that people that disagree with you are just playing him terribly is fallacy at best.

G'day.

 Stoffer wrote:
I'd never use a T3 model to absorb fire. In fact, if I saw someone put Coteaz in the front of a unit, that would be the first thing I shot at.

I was strictly referring to his use as a Prescience buff being cheaper than that of a regular Librarian. I personally wouldn't use him to tank.

whoadirty wrote:

 Stoffer wrote:
I'd never use a T3 model to absorb fire. In fact, if I saw someone put Coteaz in the front of a unit, that would be the first thing I shot at.

I was strictly referring to his use as a Prescience buff being cheaper than that of a regular Librarian. I personally wouldn't use him to tank.

Yep, that's basically what he does best.

The only thing that blows about putting Coteaz in the front is that you are forced to Look Out Sir! the wounds away before actually rolling for your armor save.

 Red Comet wrote:
The only thing that blows about putting Coteaz in the front is that you are forced to Look Out Sir! the wounds away before actually rolling for your armor save.

You always have to do that now since the FAQ; all units with characters use the mixed saves rule, and note that's characters, not just independent characters, so it goes for sergeants too and the like. Makes sense from a fluff point of view, but slows the game down unnecessarily I think.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 Red Comet wrote:
The only thing that blows about putting Coteaz in the front is that you are forced to Look Out Sir! the wounds away before actually rolling for your armor save.

You always have to do that now since the FAQ; all units with characters use the mixed saves rule, and note that's characters, not just independent characters, so it goes for sergeants too and the like. Makes sense from a fluff point of view, but slows the game down unnecessarily I think.

I agree. It slows down the game too much. Look Out Sir! was fine as is when doing batch rolls. I don't see why the game needs to be slowed down now...It was easier to just roll all of your 3+ saves then Look Out Sir! away what you failed...

So just come back from my first tournament, was a doubles so was more for fun than competitive but learn heaps of stuff about my army all the same

I took coteaz and spammed 3 man warrior acolytes with psybacks, one squad of purifiers, 2 psyrifleman and dreadknight.

Will first say that I really dont know what to put in the heavy slot anymore, my two dreads were awsome every game, taking out things like necron barges, dark eldar ravagers, all the killy stuff first turn however I loved using my dreadknight to. He only survived one game, but soaked up a huge amount of firepower, and with jump pack and heavy incinerator made a high number of kills to, I would love to take a second one but then that would mean switching a dread to elites. Hmm, not sure yet.

Taking henchman gave me lots of good firepower in the form of 4 psybacks, however squishy henchman are not good for holding objectives, will increase squad size a lot or maybe add a unit or two of terminators for some more solid scoring units.

Purifiers were awesome, with prescience just sit in a rhino and shoot psycannon death everywhere, I wish I took two squads of them.

With that in mind I was thinking of taking crowe with coteaz, that way can have scoring purifiers and free up the elite slot for techmarine, ven dread etc.

Problem with that is that I would love to take a libby for more psychic powers (divination is just heavenly) and not to keen on the old crowe tax. Thoughts?

Finally got the Ork report up here; it's good to have internet again.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Finally got the Ork report up here; it's good to have internet again.

ouch, I thought that the paladins would have been better in CC. Just how many boys were in that combat? And think apothecary would have helped with FnP?

 sudojoe wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Finally got the Ork report up here; it's good to have internet again.

ouch, I thought that the paladins would have been better in CC. Just how many boys were in that combat? And think apothecary would have helped with FnP?

There were 58 Boyz, 2 Nobz, a Big Mek, and a Warboss. It was the second round that really did it, when all the extra Boyz got to pile around for more attacks. Once the Claws got in it was all over. I mean in that second round there was 6 Claw attacks from Nobz, 3 I think from the Big Mek, and 4 or 5 from the Warboss, and they couldn't all be on Draigo. For this reason an Apothecary wouldn't have mattered as it was Instant Death wounds that killed them.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Finally got the Ork report up here; it's good to have internet again.

So many Boyz

reading report now

Tell me about it.

tuiman wrote:
So just come back from my first tournament, was a doubles so was more for fun than competitive but learn heaps of stuff about my army all the same

I took coteaz and spammed 3 man warrior acolytes with psybacks, one squad of purifiers, 2 psyrifleman and dreadknight.

Will first say that I really dont know what to put in the heavy slot anymore, my two dreads were awsome every game, taking out things like necron barges, dark eldar ravagers, all the killy stuff first turn however I loved using my dreadknight to. He only survived one game, but soaked up a huge amount of firepower, and with jump pack and heavy incinerator made a high number of kills to, I would love to take a second one but then that would mean switching a dread to elites. Hmm, not sure yet.

Taking henchman gave me lots of good firepower in the form of 4 psybacks, however squishy henchman are not good for holding objectives, will increase squad size a lot or maybe add a unit or two of terminators for some more solid scoring units.

Purifiers were awesome, with prescience just sit in a rhino and shoot psycannon death everywhere, I wish I took two squads of them.

With that in mind I was thinking of taking crowe with coteaz, that way can have scoring purifiers and free up the elite slot for techmarine, ven dread etc.

Problem with that is that I would love to take a libby for more psychic powers (divination is just heavenly) and not to keen on the old crowe tax. Thoughts?

It's kind of funny but I sorta arrived at this from the other side. I started with a crowe purifier list and then ended up adding coteaz for the buffs and dropping the interceptors. Then I started to replace some of the CC equipment and getting rhinos some henchemen for shooting and put in a storm raven just because I really have problems with fliers, especially the necron ones. I quite like the list and with coteaz being actually somewhat survivable in a big enough squad, I tend to use crowe like I used to, i.e. as tarpit/chrage in unit. I've lost quite a few games with the purifiers just cause crowe gave up warlord a bit too easily for my liking. Of course I play at 1500 and units are very very tight. I'd love to get some dreadknight in there too but so far the AC dreads are hard to replace for this mostly gunline army.

As to the liby, I don't miss hood at all. What I found most useful with the liby when I do use him now, is of course for buffs, but actually to try and be a tank with a staff and brain mines. I can try a build with liby + coteaz + henchmen and maybe just a squad or so of strike squads to see how it does. I do unfortunately have a good nid and choppy BA and choppy DE / Eldar in the local meta so I never completely ignore CC.

So turns out you shouldn't jump your Dreadknight dangerously close to Harlequins with fusion pistols on the first turn; then not shoot them because you don't even realize they have fusion pistols, and are capable of getting into range.



Also Draigo let me down with saves against Fire Prisms; but Crusaders are great!

I'm still finding crusaders too expensive at 1500 to be worth it but maybe it's just me. I really like to MSU the heck out of my units still.

Latest experiment has been to replace most of my list and go with a GK + Tau build just to see what would happen. SR brings much needed anti-air by the Tau, and coteaz + strike squad brings much needed anti-outflank and deep strike protection for the gunline. So far my builds have tried just pure guns with very little counter attacking. I figure on using sacrifical squads to keep shooting. Hope it works out.

I think it'd be kind of weak vs pure horde lists or if I don't get to go first vs like flying daemons/deep striking in my backfield early but we shall see. Not much anti-psyker support nor points for markerlights unfortunately :/ (might just have to go back to eldrad but I so do love the storm raven, maybe I'll replace a dread with a DK..., DK + broadsides + hammerhead? I'm hopeful the rail gun submunitions and the heavy incinerator will be enough for hordes but we shall see.