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 daedalus-templarius wrote:
Were the rules changed for Hurricane bolters in the latest Space Marines codex?

Was listening to a podcast and someone was referring to them as a salvo weapon or something now.

Thinking about breaking out the stormraven again, considering someone in my gaming group will likely be fielding several vendettas and heldrakes.

No, hurricane bolters are still the same. Perhaps they are talking about the Grav-guns?

The stormraven imo is becoming popular again due to high amount of psychic armies. Even I'm starting to run one in my pure Draigowing list (though not in my NecroKnights GK/Necron army).






Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Xca|iber wrote:
Something more like this?
HQ: 
Coteaz - 100 
Draigo - 275 
Farseer, Singing Spear, Mantle, Jetbike - 160 

Troops: 
10x Paladins, 4x Psycannons, Apothecary, Banner, Stave - 750 
1x Paladin - 55
4x Windrider Jetbikes, Shuricannon - 78
3x Windrider Jetbikes, Shuricannon - 61 

Heavy Support: 
Psyrifleman, Searchlight - 135+1
Psyrifleman - 135

I'm not a fan of the Mantleseer (I call him the Laughseer ) in this list. Why? Because there isn't much for him to buff up. His primary buffing powers are Guide and Prescience. Well, the bikers are already twin-linked and the knights can't benefit from it. None of his powers can really help out the knights besides Misfortune, but your chances of getting even that isn't very reliable. Basically, the jetseer isn't a very good force-multiplier when there isn't anything really for him to force-multiply.

Instead, in such a list, I much prefer the Laughtarch (Autarch on Jetbike with Mantle, Fusion Gun and Laser Lance). He's a very fast threat all on his own and can pick off vehicles and non-combat specialist units. Moreover, his ability to manipulate reserves (i.e. the jetbikes) comes in very handy. He's a much better fit for your list than the Mantleseer.

Thanks for catching that jy2. I had initially gone with the Farseer because I assumed he would be with a bigger squad of bikes. Must have had a brain fart when I started handing out the Mantle - totally forgot that Autarchs could take it too.

I want to add some fuel to the fire.

I played a Draigowing at the Feast of Blade Open and took 8th place in a four way tie. I went 4-2-0 without playing the army before. My list is as follows:

Draigo - 275

Coteaz - 100

*Paladin (x1) - 55
-Daemonhammer

*Paladin (x10) (750)
-4x Psycannon
-Apothecary Upgrade
-Brotherhood Banner
-Psibolt Ammo
-3x Daemonhammers
-2x Force Swords
-Rest Halberds


*Henchmen Warband (15)
-3 Acolytes , 3 Bolters

*Henchmen Warband (15)
-3 Acolytes , 3 Bolters

*Henchmen Warband (30)
-6 Acolytes , 6 Bolters

*Henchmen Warband (30)
-6 Acolytes , 6 Bolters

*Nms Dreadknight (235)
-Hvy Incinerator , Pers Teleporter

*Nms Dreadknight (235)
-Hvy Incinerator , Pers Teleporter

*Nms Dreadknight (260)
-Hvy Incinerator, Pers Teleporter , Nms Greatsword


I made some mistakes, but gave a lot of my opponents hard games. My losses were to a White Scare gravity gun spam army, which I was in it to draw on Turn 5 with two dreadknights left... sadly I didn't do enough damage on turn 5 and it went to 6. I also lost to a Nurgle Daemon Prince flying circus army, but I made gameplay mistakes there.

The armies I did beat were two blood angles players, a blood angels/imperial fist list featuring a nasty unit of 4 Grav Cents, Corbulo, and Lysander (UGH!), and another flying circus. I barely beat the grav cent army with three acolytes hiding on 2 objectives and the game ended on Turn 5...

Dreadknights need to be super committed; you have to go all three. I faced a BA army with two storm ravens and was able to tank the blood strike missiles and force one to snapfire each turn due to a lucky "I've Been Expecting You" moment and just lots of snapfiring prescienced psycannons.

@TheKbob

Awesome, man. Great job!

How big was the Open? About how many players? I actually know the winner of the Open and have played against his bikers twice, though that was before the new Space Marines codex.

Did you encounter a lot of flyers? One of my concerns with regards to this type of list is how do one deal with flyers? That's why I included necron allies in my list. That's also why I went for a more shooty GK build with psyfleman dreads over the dreadknights.

Once again, congrats!

jy2,

Open was about 45, maybe 50 players? That gravguns army is just not very nice. Bikes shouldn't be allowed gravity guns in my opinion because of the relentless + 12" move + 18" reach of salvo 3. Just a bit much and only further goes to invalidate terminators. Guy playing it (and winner of Feast) is a good guy. I am happy the army he'd been playing for so long turned around to be good

Not a whole lot of flyers in terms of vehicles. Just one list with two storm ravens. I used my scoring dreadknights to shunt on the relic, which was on a LARGE LOS blocking terrain piece, so large my dreadknights could hide behind it with my paladin star. I applied pressure with a third dreadknight which ate some bloodstrike missiles and I killed the other one on snapfired psycannons before it could loose it's payload. They're tough, for sure. I did ignore a vindicator all game, though. It could only clip my paladin star bases (mainly Draigos since it was bigger than normal). Never wounded with it.

Maybe if there was a bigger flyer spam list, I could have struggled? At that point, I ignore them and press forward. Crimson Hunters are scary, but I'd make them swiss cheese. Vendettas and Storm Ravens are my only true fear. I could see how a few psyflmen could help. Then again, I found that the pressure of three jumping dreadknights was enough to make people panic. They would the focus on the dreadsknights and leave my paladins to advance... much to their dismay late in the game.

Sadly, as gravity becomes more prevalent, it's going to further halt all 2+ save stuff outside of TH/SS termies, I think. Those weapons are a solution to a problem that didn't exist. The real issue is taking down MCs not terminators.

BTW, here is my game against Captn Dee, winner of the FoB Open, and back before all that grav-gun nonsense (lol....j.k.). It was back when the CSM codex just came out and I was giving it a test-spin. Gasp! Yeah, I know....heresy. But there's just something cool about running a lot of zombies. BTW, I only had 1 helturkey back then.


40K Video Bat Rep: Jy2′s Chaos vs. Capt’n Dees’ Biker Marines 1750 BAO Practice Game

 TheKbob wrote:
jy2,

Open was about 45, maybe 50 players? That gravguns army is just not very nice. Bikes shouldn't be allowed gravity guns in my opinion because of the relentless + 12" move + 18" reach of salvo 3. Just a bit much and only further goes to invalidate terminators. Guy playing it (and winner of Feast) is a good guy. I am happy the army he'd been playing for so long turned around to be good

Not a whole lot of flyers in terms of vehicles. Just one list with two storm ravens. I used my scoring dreadknights to shunt on the relic, which was on a LARGE LOS blocking terrain piece, so large my dreadknights could hide behind it with my paladin star. I applied pressure with a third dreadknight which ate some bloodstrike missiles and I killed the other one on snapfired psycannons before it could loose it's payload. They're tough, for sure. I did ignore a vindicator all game, though. It could only clip my paladin star bases (mainly Draigos since it was bigger than normal). Never wounded with it.

Maybe if there was a bigger flyer spam list, I could have struggled? At that point, I ignore them and press forward. Crimson Hunters are scary, but I'd make them swiss cheese. Vendettas and Storm Ravens are my only true fear. I could see how a few psyflmen could help. Then again, I found that the pressure of three jumping dreadknights was enough to make people panic. They would the focus on the dreadsknights and leave my paladins to advance... much to their dismay late in the game.

Sadly, as gravity becomes more prevalent, it's going to further halt all 2+ save stuff outside of TH/SS termies, I think. Those weapons are a solution to a problem that didn't exist. The real issue is taking down MCs not terminators.

Grav guns are actually also an answer to MC. Riptides fold like laundry on Sunday to grav weapons if they do not use their nova charger to boot to a 3++ and I have never seen a Tau player choose resilience over shooting. They also mow through WK, DP, and tyranid monsters because you are now wounding on a 3+ and completely negate that high toughness they pay so much for.

I play bikes and have been for a while, and I think the new dex white scar's list are better than any previous biker army SM could do, but it ultimately still suffer from the same hard counters as they did before (Helldrakes, and Poison spam). Fortunately for the bikes, Tau, Eldar, and the constant internet declarations that CSM sucks has largely removed the 2+ helldrake lists from the top meta. Hopefully, there will be enough SM players that are willing to go around 4-2 at tournaments to be a serious deterent to the 3+ riptide lists and serpent spam lists that we don't see 7 of the top 10 lists at GT being some combination of tau/elder/ally of choice.

Any new discoveries since last Tuesday?

Hey there guys! I haven't been in the hobby for the three last months and I 'll play tomorrow against SW at 2k points and Raven Guard at 1.5 (different games )

I was thinking to use the following list(s) :

Hq:
Coteaz 100

Elites:
Vindicare Assassin 145
Techmarine w/ Power Axe , Rad grenades 100
10x Purifiers w/ 4x Incinerators , 5x Halberds , 1x Hammer 255

Troops:
10x GKSS w/ 2x Psycannons , 7x Swords , 1x Hammer , Psybolts 250
10x GKSS w/ 2x Psycannons , 7x Swords , 1x Hammer , Psybolts 250
1st Henchmen Unit : 3x plasma cannon servitors , 2x space monkeys , 7x bolter warrior acolytes 165 (Coteaz joins them)
2nd Henchmen Unit: 3x bolter warrior acolytes in a Lascannon Razorback w/ dozer blade 100
3rd Henchmen Unit: 3x bolter warrior acolytes in a Lascannon Razorback w/ dozer blade 100

Heavy Support:
Dreadnought w/ 2x TL Autocannons , Psybolts 135
Dreadnought w/ 2x TL Autocannons , Psybolts 135
Landraider Redeemer w/ Psyfalmes , Psybolts 265 (here goes the Purifiers Unit + Techmarine)

For the Raven Guard game which I already told you that it 'll be at 1,5k points I 'm considering not to include the 2x GKSS . For your info there aren't a lot of flyers in my local meta so that's why there aren't AA choices in the list(s) .. Also Purifiers + the Redeemer upgrades are more for the flavor as I know there are more competitive units but I can't help it right know

As I 'm playing with friends the only actual problem I see for the Landraider are the melta guns on their tactical squads (SW) and the sternguard unit (for Ravens) which 'll come via drop pods but if I go first I'll warp quake and if not I'll put it near Coteaz's unit ... Also MSU is the way to go for GKSS (and maybe DS one of them) because both of their list will probably include a Vindicator ...

Anyway this is more of a fun list but I thought to share my thoughts and also greet all of you as I haven't been around these last months

P.S : Comment and Critique always welcome

New FW FAQs are out and there are new rules for Red Hunters Chapter which are Battle Brothers with Grey Knights; gives us some more options for FW environments.

anyone have the low down on what BB allies we get from FW?

just won bet overall at a tourny with my GK's,

everyone nicknamed my army the "shunt punch"

1500pts,
coteaz,
27 bolter henchmen,
20 interceptors 2 psybolts
3 DK's w teleporter+Hincinerator.


massacred everyone, mainly due to me out manuvering people ... even eldar serpent spam was crushed....


very happy with how manuverable this list is, and how I can feint opponents one way, and go the other.

can also have almost everything in CC turn 2, so lots of tactics involved with this list, it is NOT a list for those who dont want to have to think about every move, 2 turns in advance lol.

 easysauce wrote:
anyone have the low down on what BB allies we get from FW?

Space Marines with the Red Hunters Chapter Tactics, as I said in the post right above yours.

I haven't really done much thinking on it but it seems better to use Red Hunters with an ally detachment of GKs. Run Coteaz(or a generic inquisitor) maybe stick a chaplain with DCA, or a unit of paladins. Unless you want to a unit or two of henchmen with melts/plasma. Though on the other hand you could have an detachment of Red Hunters on bikes with a command squad maxed on grav guns. Thoughts?

What a great thread for any GK player. Keep it going

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 easysauce wrote:
anyone have the low down on what BB allies we get from FW?

Space Marines with the Red Hunters Chapter Tactics, as I said in the post right above yours.

sry it is unclear what i meant,

but its just that one chapter then it sounds like, i dont know what those tactics do, but basically just means we have one BB in the SM codex i guess

The Red Hunters chapter tactics actually opens up a lot of interesting options. The other part of the tactics lets X units in their detachment gain a certain special rule on the Xth turn, once per game. You get to choose from a list of rules, and one of the options is Skyfire - so there might be some neat infantry options to deal with GK lack thereof by using this combo. Other options are Tank or Monster Hunters, Counter-Attack, Hatred, and Interceptor.

They also always have Adamantium Will all the time, so adding a character to a GK unit makes for exceptional psychic defense when combined with Aegis/Reinforced Aegis.

But as the rules for Red Hunters is written, they are only battle brothers as long as there is an inquisitor in the allied detachment. Which would mean that Red Hunters need to be main detachment.

athedge wrote:
But as the rules for Red Hunters is written, they are only battle brothers as long as there is an inquisitor in the allied detachment. Which would mean that Red Hunters need to be main detachment.

While this is true, it still adds plenty of options for Grey Knights, and is probably the better way to run it anyway at the moment. Remember you can really get a load of stuff into an allied detachment.

I wouldn't take the Inquisitor clause too seriously, it says they're Battle Brothers with Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle as long as an Inquisitor is present, but the Adepta Sororitas don't actually have Inquisitors in their codex so...?

They're generally more specific about when things only work when used as a primary detachment, too, so I wouldn't be surprised if that part of the paragraph is just sloppy, too.

Edit: To be clear, you guys are dead-on with respect to what's RAW correct, but I wouldn't be surprised if that paragraph got changed. It's not like the Inquisitor "tax" is actually a burden to us anyway given how very useful they are. Coteaz is in almost every army as it is, anyway.

I posted this in the Army List section too but I would also like to hear from everyone here about the following list , how to complete it and how competitive is/can be :

Hq:
Coteaz (divination) 100

Elites:
Vindicare Assassin 145
Techmarine w/ Conversion Beamer 110 (He is here for Bolster Defences ..I think )
Paladin Squad (10x) : 4x Psycannons + 3x Hammers + 3x Swords + 3x Halberds + Apothecary + Bro Banner + Psybolt Ammo 750

Troops:
1st Henchmen Squad (12x) : 3x Plasma Cannon Servitors + 2x Jakaero + 7x Bolter Warrior Acolytes 165 (Coteaz joins them)
2nd Henchmen Squad (3x) : 3x Bolter Warrior Acolytes in a TL Lascannon Razorback 95
3rd Henchmen Squad (3x) : 3x Bolter Warrior Acolytes in a TL Lascannon Razorback 95

Heavy Support:
Dreadnought w/ 2x TL Autocannons + Psybolt Ammo 135
Dreadnought w/ 2x TL Autocannons + Psybolt Ammo 135

Now , the above Units come at 1730 points so... there are 270 points left .. That makes me think "Oh! I have Paladins in there , won't Drago be a good addition in there?" And surely it is but I was thinking that for 200 points I can include a lvl 3 Librarian with codex power (requires to pay something like 20 more points for 4 powers) or divination for Primaris + 2x Random powers every round .. And if I go the Divination road won't it be better to add an Ordo Malleus Inq who can bring Divination + his own psycannon for only 110 points instead ??

As I already told you before I want your opinions on this matter and if by going one way or another how competitive this list is / or can be ??

(Just for your info I 'm considering the Libi choice but maybe that's because of the converted miniature which looks damn good )

The convential wisdom is that the vindicare assassin is not competitive. It isn't horrible, but it isn't competitive. Too many points for a model that dies fairly easily (even in bolstered cover). Ditto for the Techmarine. Too expensive for what he brings.

Also I don't think you have enough troops. You'll be in a lot of trouble in objective games. With your list you pretty much need Draigo or a Grand Master just to give yourself more troop options....

I thought it would probably be better to resurrect this than to make a new thread for my question.

So, what is the state of the Meta at the moment in terms of Grey Knights. I've been out of the hobby for over a year now, so I would appreciate any updates on how Grey Knights are now played. Army Lists, strengths, weaknesses, any help at all would be appreciated.

Thanks, RaptorsTallon

Not too much has changed over the past year, other than AV14 coming back as another valid army strat to add to our already good army strats. Unfortunately, that means that we are still 2nd Tier at best, and with the addition of the Inquisition codex, a couple of our good strats have migrated to other armies. The upside is, we can now double-down on Inquisition units, if that's your fancy.

Rest assured, with the current meta upheaval the game is going through, the GK flexibility in army strats is still very much a strength, its just not Eldar-Tau-Daemons strong, despite GKs having the only viable hard counter to 2++/re-rollabe Deathstars in our Mindstrike Missiles. As it stands, play the list you want play, play to the mission, and enjoy the challenge of today's chaotic meta!

SJ

Pretty good actually. Forgeworld has done a lot for GK giving them SM allies called red hunters and new units in IA2ed2.

I can also see the new Knights helping out GK a bit, as it'll certainly take a lot of heat off our infantry and provides very reliable AT at range and in melee. Yes, they're expensive, but I'm looking forward to bringing my GK out of retirement alongside a Knight, just to see how it goes.

 Paradigm wrote:
I can also see the new Knights helping out GK a bit, as it'll certainly take a lot of heat off our infantry and provides very reliable AT at range and in melee. Yes, they're expensive, but I'm looking forward to bringing my GK out of retirement alongside a Knight, just to see how it goes.

I had the same thought.

Still playing my GK against Tau/Eldar, and as pointed out above, Mindstrike missiles are great against daemons. They're not 5th ed strong, but still doable. Jy2 has several battle reports and some threads on his GK and GK/Necron successes.

I had the same thought when I saw the knights, maybe I'll add one once I've built the army up a bit.

The Grey Knights have actually been hurt recently at the competitive level. 2 of their more popular tournament builds currently are Draigowing and/or triple-dreadknight builds. Then Space Marines came out and screwed that all up with their grav-guns. One of their pre-eminent tournament builds are grav-gun White Scars. That army is both a counter to GK and Tau 2+ builds. So if you run MEQ-spam GK's (3+ models), you have to watch out for Chaos heldrake builds. If you run TEQ GK's (2+ models), now you have to watch out for Space Marines biker armies. I'm beginning to think that Inquisition with 3 stormravens is the way to go for competitive GK's. After all, they die all the same to heldrakes or grav-guns. Lol.

And it sucks that now almost every one can take Coteaz and Inquisitors. They used to be our "secret" weapons....but not anymore. Sigh.

But that shall not deter me from running what I want to run. I love me some paladins.

We've been running a small tourney in my flgs and I haven't really used Purifiers before this. And man, I completely understand why they use to be so dominant. Two of my opponents were completely unprepared for them. I usually run them in a rhino or a in stormraven with coteaz. I completely love the fact they can assault after disembarking a stormraven. So nasty.

Which leads me to some questions.

Can paladins take dedicated transports like the land raider/stormraven, if so why haven't we seem some paladin/ Landraider builds? Too many points?