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 sudojoe wrote:

tuiman wrote:
So just come back from my first tournament, was a doubles so was more for fun than competitive but learn heaps of stuff about my army all the same

I took coteaz and spammed 3 man warrior acolytes with psybacks, one squad of purifiers, 2 psyrifleman and dreadknight.

Will first say that I really dont know what to put in the heavy slot anymore, my two dreads were awsome every game, taking out things like necron barges, dark eldar ravagers, all the killy stuff first turn however I loved using my dreadknight to. He only survived one game, but soaked up a huge amount of firepower, and with jump pack and heavy incinerator made a high number of kills to, I would love to take a second one but then that would mean switching a dread to elites. Hmm, not sure yet.

Taking henchman gave me lots of good firepower in the form of 4 psybacks, however squishy henchman are not good for holding objectives, will increase squad size a lot or maybe add a unit or two of terminators for some more solid scoring units.

Purifiers were awesome, with prescience just sit in a rhino and shoot psycannon death everywhere, I wish I took two squads of them.

With that in mind I was thinking of taking crowe with coteaz, that way can have scoring purifiers and free up the elite slot for techmarine, ven dread etc.



Problem with that is that I would love to take a libby for more psychic powers (divination is just heavenly) and not to keen on the old crowe tax. Thoughts?

It's kind of funny but I sorta arrived at this from the other side. I started with a crowe purifier list and then ended up adding coteaz for the buffs and dropping the interceptors. Then I started to replace some of the CC equipment and getting rhinos some henchemen for shooting and put in a storm raven just because I really have problems with fliers, especially the necron ones. I quite like the list and with coteaz being actually somewhat survivable in a big enough squad, I tend to use crowe like I used to, i.e. as tarpit/chrage in unit. I've lost quite a few games with the purifiers just cause crowe gave up warlord a bit too easily for my liking. Of course I play at 1500 and units are very very tight. I'd love to get some dreadknight in there too but so far the AC dreads are hard to replace for this mostly gunline army.

As to the liby, I don't miss hood at all. What I found most useful with the liby when I do use him now, is of course for buffs, but actually to try and be a tank with a staff and brain mines. I can try a build with liby + coteaz + henchmen and maybe just a squad or so of strike squads to see how it does. I do unfortunately have a good nid and choppy BA and choppy DE / Eldar in the local meta so I never completely ignore CC.

Ive decided to go down the crowe/coteaz route, as once again today, coteaz buffing pufifiers was so good the entire game, will also think of a defence line and combing my henchman into a bigger squad with plasma to sit behind for cover. I guess crowe can man the quad gun

I've got a dilemma with a 2k list I've been working on. It's coteaz with IG allies. and between the two armies I can't decide if bringing 2 GK psyflmen is better then saving the points and bringing 10 autocannons and having the poitns to upgrade my platoons to have plasma guns as well. The biggest loss is the S8 shots, I can TL my autcannons well enough, and having 10 vice 4 is a huge difference in pure amount of shots, and the unit weilding them are troops instead of heavies. And after seeing the recently release missions list for FOB, i think i'm going to need lot of troops.
I know it's hard to decide without a list to work with, so here's what I got, short and simple.

HQ

-Coteaz
-IG Command Squad Astropath, 2x grenade launchers 1x autcannon.

Troops
-3x Acolyte w/ plasmaguns in psyback w/SL
-3x Acolyte w/ plasmaguns in psyback w/SL
-3x Acolyte w/ meltaguns in psyback w/SL
-10x GKSS 2x Psycannon Srg w/ hammer psyboltammo in psyback w/SL
-IG Platoon: Platoon cmd 3x metlaguns 1x flamer
-platoon plasmagun autocannon commissar krak grenades
-platoon plasmagun autocannon krak grenades
-platoon plasmagun autocannon krak grenades
-Hvy Wep Sqd 3x Autcannons
-Hvy Wep Sqd 3x Autcannons

Fast
-GK Stromraven TL MM, TL LC, SL
-IG Vendetta w/ 2x Heavy Bolters

Heavy
-IG Manticore w/ bolter

Forts
-Aegis Defense Line with Quadgun.

~2kpts

So do i keep the 2x Hvy Wep Sqds and the autocannons in the platoons, or do I grab myself Psyflemen. I ask myself, what I'm going to do against necro AV 13 spam, and I wonder how many I can glance do death. Not so worried about landraiders, I can handle that, but 6ish AV 13 vehicles in nightifhgting might be an issue.

I think 10 Autocannons and a bunch of Plasma Guns sounds like a better all-round option.

I also had one other concern, I recently cut my DCA/Crusader+techmarine squad for a unit of GKSS w/psyback. Do you think it was smart to get rid of my only close-combat unit? I realized that not being able to assault on turn two when coming in from a stormraven, makes them fairly bad at counter assaulting.

I feel that close-combat has taken a big backseat to shooting in this edition, especially my old tried and true DCA/Crusader unit. Although I'm sure if I just position them differently, they can survive the overwatch and still destroy almost anything they run into with they're power weapon options.

Very close to my list, bit could not decide between the manticore or something like a russ demolisher or executioner, mainly cause gk have plenty of Ap4 in psycannons, autocannons etc, and I really feel the need for something that by passes marine armour but I guess YMMV

Coyote81 wrote:
I've got a dilemma with a 2k list I've been working on. It's coteaz with IG allies. and between the two armies I can't decide if bringing 2 GK psyflmen is better then saving the points and bringing 10 autocannons and having the poitns to upgrade my platoons to have plasma guns as well. The biggest loss is the S8 shots, I can TL my autcannons well enough, and having 10 vice 4 is a huge difference in pure amount of shots, and the unit weilding them are troops instead of heavies. And after seeing the recently release missions list for FOB, i think i'm going to need lot of troops.
I know it's hard to decide without a list to work with, so here's what I got, short and simple.

HQ

-Coteaz
-IG Command Squad Astropath, 2x grenade launchers 1x autcannon.

Troops
-3x Acolyte w/ plasmaguns in psyback w/SL
-3x Acolyte w/ plasmaguns in psyback w/SL
-3x Acolyte w/ meltaguns in psyback w/SL
-10x GKSS 2x Psycannon Srg w/ hammer psyboltammo in psyback w/SL
-IG Platoon: Platoon cmd 3x metlaguns 1x flamer
-platoon plasmagun autocannon commissar krak grenades
-platoon plasmagun autocannon krak grenades
-platoon plasmagun autocannon krak grenades
-Hvy Wep Sqd 3x Autcannons
-Hvy Wep Sqd 3x Autcannons

Fast
-GK Stromraven TL MM, TL LC, SL
-IG Vendetta w/ 2x Heavy Bolters

Heavy
-IG Manticore w/ bolter

Forts
-Aegis Defense Line with Quadgun.

~2kpts

So do i keep the 2x Hvy Wep Sqds and the autocannons in the platoons, or do I grab myself Psyflemen. I ask myself, what I'm going to do against necro AV 13 spam, and I wonder how many I can glance do death. Not so worried about landraiders, I can handle that, but 6ish AV 13 vehicles in nightifhgting might be an issue.

You have tons of shots and two flyers to deal with your opponent's flyers, do you really need the Quad Gun?

Not seeing the reason for the 3 man Henchment squads either. They can't hold objectives, and need to pray their ride gets them to the place in the game where they do the utmost damage (which is only 2.5 Marines on average).

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Not seeing the reason for the 3 man Henchment squads either. They can't hold objectives, and need to pray their ride gets them to the place in the game where they do the utmost damage (which is only 2.5 Marines on average).

Agree with this, 3 man henchman squads are horrible, either make them bigger or make sure you have something more solid like terminators to hold.

Another trick I never realized until now, for purifiers, I use to put hammer on justicar and run two halberd two psycannon. Now I put the halberd on the justicar and run a hammer on a normal purifier. This way I can issue challenges and kill of all the nasty powerfists power klaw nobs, sergeants etc, before they can swing back, also leaves the hammer to attack the regular guys. Just a subtle thing that's been working wonders for me.

tuiman wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Not seeing the reason for the 3 man Henchment squads either. They can't hold objectives, and need to pray their ride gets them to the place in the game where they do the utmost damage (which is only 2.5 Marines on average).

Agree with this, 3 man henchman squads are horrible, either make them bigger or make sure you have something more solid like terminators to hold.

Another trick I never realized until now, for purifiers, I use to put hammer on justicar and run two halberd two psycannon. Now I put the halberd on the justicar and run a hammer on a normal purifier. This way I can issue challenges and kill of all the nasty powerfists power klaw nobs, sergeants etc, before they can swing back, also leaves the hammer to attack the regular guys. Just a subtle thing that's been working wonders for me.

The intent is as a disembarking suicide unit, at least that's my best guess given that they are no fire point razorbacks.

If they were in a chimera the gun would be downgraded from an average of 2.5 hits per turn at ap4 to av average of 1.5 hits per turn at ap-, gain a hb or hf, and gain 5 fire points, enough for say 2 storm bolters and 3 plasma guns. Psybacks for henchmen are dead, they just haven't gone away yet because they were real popular in 5th when they could score from inside the transport.

I must say with the new DK buff/cheese, the damn baby carrier really earns his points now. In my last 2k game against elder, one DK with a sword and flamer managed to single handily wipe out a wraitlord, a unit of dire avengers, a unit of guardians, a unit or rangers, and a unit of fire dragons before finally being brought down. To be fair, it was mostly my opponent's fault for bunching up his troops so close...

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
I must say with the new DK buff/cheese, the damn baby carrier really earns his points now. In my last 2k game against elder, one DK with a sword and flamer managed to single handily wipe out a wraitlord, a unit of dire avengers, a unit of guardians, a unit or rangers, and a unit of fire dragons before finally being brought down. To be fair, it was mostly my opponent's fault for bunching up his troops so close...

I don't think they need a teleporter and find the prospect of 3 deepstriking dks without jump packs more intimidating than 2 dks with jump packs. Riflemen are nice, but the roll of long ranged dakka can be easily filled by allies.

tuiman wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Not seeing the reason for the 3 man Henchment squads either. They can't hold objectives, and need to pray their ride gets them to the place in the game where they do the utmost damage (which is only 2.5 Marines on average).

Agree with this, 3 man henchman squads are horrible, either make them bigger or make sure you have something more solid like terminators to hold.

Another trick I never realized until now, for purifiers, I use to put hammer on justicar and run two halberd two psycannon. Now I put the halberd on the justicar and run a hammer on a normal purifier. This way I can issue challenges and kill of all the nasty powerfists power klaw nobs, sergeants etc, before they can swing back, also leaves the hammer to attack the regular guys. Just a subtle thing that's been working wonders for me.

I could very easily make them into 6 man squads with bolter acolytes by dropping the quadgun like the above poster mentioned. Or do you think that wouldn't be any better. Is the psyback henchmen squad really dead? Are the only way to run them now is in chimeras or on foot? Is it more viable to leave the psyback at home and use the points to outfit my plasma squads with stormbolter acolytes and my metla squad with bolter acolytes? Without my psybacks, I no longer have mobile cover fot my units either. So in the end, what people are telling me is I should take either chimeras, and bigger squads, or take bigger squads on foot and leave the chimeras at home. I currently have some 12 storm botler acolytes and 12 bolter acolytes I'm not using, I could use them to fill in. If I take a monkeysmith in each squad (I don't know if I have the poitns for that, or if it's worth it) then i could make the units actually threat worth with a decent roll. So if I drop those psybacks, I'll drop the one from the GKSS too. Quick math in my head says -4x psybacks -quadgun (keepign the defense line) +12 bolter acolytes +12 storm bolter acolytes +3 jokero = 26pts to work with. I could upgrade the CCS to camocloaks or meltas.

PS: Even in 5th ed, you never put your hammer on the Knight of Flame in the purifier unit, he's the first to die to perils and gains no advantage over anyone else by having it. but yes Halberd on him one hammer halberd and to cannons was my standard build. Double it for 10man(sometimes I left the 2nd hammer at home).

 schadenfreude wrote:

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
I must say with the new DK buff/cheese, the damn baby carrier really earns his points now. In my last 2k game against elder, one DK with a sword and flamer managed to single handily wipe out a wraitlord, a unit of dire avengers, a unit of guardians, a unit or rangers, and a unit of fire dragons before finally being brought down. To be fair, it was mostly my opponent's fault for bunching up his troops so close...

I don't think they need a teleporter and find the prospect of 3 deepstriking dks without jump packs more intimidating than 2 dks with jump packs. Riflemen are nice, but the roll of long ranged dakka can be easily filled by allies.

Yes to no Teleporter, no to Deep Striking. Deep Striknig is unpredictable, random, and extremely dangerous. Better to deploy and walk. Works for me every time, and means the DK starts drawing enemy fire right from turn 1 so the rest of your army stays unmolested. Hell sometimes he can even flame stuff on turn 1 if you go second and the enemy has to move forward; see the CSM/IG game of my latest tournament report.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
I must say with the new DK buff/cheese, the damn baby carrier really earns his points now. In my last 2k game against elder, one DK with a sword and flamer managed to single handily wipe out a wraitlord, a unit of dire avengers, a unit of guardians, a unit or rangers, and a unit of fire dragons before finally being brought down. To be fair, it was mostly my opponent's fault for bunching up his troops so close...

I don't think they need a teleporter and find the prospect of 3 deepstriking dks without jump packs more intimidating than 2 dks with jump packs. Riflemen are nice, but the roll of long ranged dakka can be easily filled by allies.

Yes to no Teleporter, no to Deep Striking. Deep Striknig is unpredictable, random, and extremely dangerous. Better to deploy and walk. Works for me every time, and means the DK starts drawing enemy fire right from turn 1 so the rest of your army stays unmolested. Hell sometimes he can even flame stuff on turn 1 if you go second and the enemy has to move forward; see the CSM/IG game of my latest tournament report.

Depends on the list. Servo skulls, mystics, and quad flamer purgation squads with a teleport homer can all make deep striking safe. I guess it really depends on what the rest of the list is like. With the versatility of the GK codex DS is a valid option. That being said walking is also a valid option, especially if a TEQ unit is also hoofing it.

 schadenfreude wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
I must say with the new DK buff/cheese, the damn baby carrier really earns his points now. In my last 2k game against elder, one DK with a sword and flamer managed to single handily wipe out a wraitlord, a unit of dire avengers, a unit of guardians, a unit or rangers, and a unit of fire dragons before finally being brought down. To be fair, it was mostly my opponent's fault for bunching up his troops so close...

I don't think they need a teleporter and find the prospect of 3 deepstriking dks without jump packs more intimidating than 2 dks with jump packs. Riflemen are nice, but the roll of long ranged dakka can be easily filled by allies.

Yes to no Teleporter, no to Deep Striking. Deep Striknig is unpredictable, random, and extremely dangerous. Better to deploy and walk. Works for me every time, and means the DK starts drawing enemy fire right from turn 1 so the rest of your army stays unmolested. Hell sometimes he can even flame stuff on turn 1 if you go second and the enemy has to move forward; see the CSM/IG game of my latest tournament report.

Depends on the list. Servo skulls, mystics, and quad flamer purgation squads with a teleport homer can all make deep striking safe. I guess it really depends on what the rest of the list is like. With the versatility of the GK codex DS is a valid option. That being said walking is also a valid option, especially if a TEQ unit is also hoofing it.

Foot Slogging GK is very valid. Just look at Hulksmash's GK. He does great with them and I think he only lost twice at Nova with that list. Its a great list and it has enough S5 shots to take most flyers out of the skies unless its a Stormraven. Personally I feel putting GK in a transport now is kind of meh when shooting is so important.

I'm quite keen to try a foot list but one of my friends runs three vindicators in his blood angels list, even two rifleman dreads will struggle to crack all that av 13. Thats my main weakness so far, cracking open av13+ tanks, russes are a real pain. My stormraven with multi melta is good but sometimes does not turn up untill turn 4. Might just take a vindacare assassin.

Sounds like you have been having a lot of bad luck. The good thing if you run foot GK is that you can keep your Strike Squads in reserves and then deep strike them using the Servo Skulls from an Inquisitor to reduce the scatter.

 Red Comet wrote:
Sounds like you have been having a lot of bad luck. The good thing if you run foot GK is that you can keep your Strike Squads in reserves and then deep strike them using the Servo Skulls from an Inquisitor to reduce the scatter.

Yeah I have had a lot of bad luck with my reserve rolls, yet to come in turn 2 with the raven, even when I had the strategic trait to re roll reserves lol, might add a cheap Inquisitor to pair with coteaz, for servo skulls and even psychic communion.

Add a Gm imo, he works out better in a foot army giving you options like turning your dreads into scoring units. Outflanking with purifiers. Rerolls to wound on GKSS.

 schadenfreude wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
I must say with the new DK buff/cheese, the damn baby carrier really earns his points now. In my last 2k game against elder, one DK with a sword and flamer managed to single handily wipe out a wraitlord, a unit of dire avengers, a unit of guardians, a unit or rangers, and a unit of fire dragons before finally being brought down. To be fair, it was mostly my opponent's fault for bunching up his troops so close...

I don't think they need a teleporter and find the prospect of 3 deepstriking dks without jump packs more intimidating than 2 dks with jump packs. Riflemen are nice, but the roll of long ranged dakka can be easily filled by allies.

Yes to no Teleporter, no to Deep Striking. Deep Striknig is unpredictable, random, and extremely dangerous. Better to deploy and walk. Works for me every time, and means the DK starts drawing enemy fire right from turn 1 so the rest of your army stays unmolested. Hell sometimes he can even flame stuff on turn 1 if you go second and the enemy has to move forward; see the CSM/IG game of my latest tournament report.

Depends on the list. Servo skulls, mystics, and quad flamer purgation squads with a teleport homer can all make deep striking safe. I guess it really depends on what the rest of the list is like. With the versatility of the GK codex DS is a valid option. That being said walking is also a valid option, especially if a TEQ unit is also hoofing it.

The latter two suggestions are never seen in competitive lists though, so not really a valid option. And in the case of the former, D6 less is still D6. I'd rather control completely where I want to be as well as not losing 1-3 turns.

I just finished playing my last pure GK army at 2000 as I've sold off a lot of the models now. I'm going to be focusing on daemons as the new codex is coming out and I'm excited to play my chaos again. I lost in the finals after beating up on BA and a strange Nec/Ig list. I lost to daemons because I'm an idiot and totally misplayed the grinder mission (kill points). He had loaded up on deamonettes as troops and I activated warp quake just putting them back in reserve so they were safe - doh, while is screamers and flamers owned me at times. He ghad Fatey, LoC and DP too and my list is predicated on ignoring too many flyers - it can handle one or two but ... even with prescience psycannons are just iffy.

My list ...

=Inquisition=
for every one of us that falls in battle one hundred enemies will die

Inquisitor Torquemada Coteaz, 2*Divination 100
Librarian, TDA, Nemesis Force Sword, 2*Divination 150 - warlord trait, personal
3 Heavy Bolter Servitors, 2 Jokaero Weaponsmiths, 5 Warrior Acolytes, Stormbolters, 1 Warrior Acolyte Boltgun, Mystic 150
6 Crusaders, Power Axes, Mystic 100
10 Terminators, 2 Psycannons, 7 Deamonhammers, Justicar, Halberd, Psybolt 470
10 GKSS, 2 Psycannon 220
10 GKSS, 2 Psycannon 220
10 GKSS, 2 Psycannon 220
Dreadknight, Heavy Incinerator, Nemesis Greatsword, Doomfist 185
Dreadknight, Heavy Incinerator, Nemesis Greatsword, Doomfist 185

=2000=

Well the Coteaz squad was pretty solid and was a focus for some serious firepower in my Nec and BA game. Getting off some free shots on reserves arriving (when in range) is very nice with that squad. The big surprise was my teminator sqiuad with libbie and my cruaders. They were roclks in all the games taking and giving punishment (well screamers owned them and that was my downfall in the final game). The DKs were as good as can be expected. I DSed one and one squad of GKSS in all the games ... hence the mystics ... and it worked pretty well.

I had already accepted an offer on most of my list so I knew it was a last hurrah. Maybe I was playing soft on the daemon list knowing I was building my own, lol. But man, if flamers nd screamers get the drop on you it is just nasty. Warp quake can help but not enough. He had eighteen screamers and flamers. I thought I could pull ahead on KPs at one point but in the end fell a little short. I would play smarter next time. I wasted too much dakka trying to take down fateweaver. The LoC is almost as nasty and I could not take both him and the screamers out fast enough. Not that it matters ... I'm not going to playing the list again ( I will play my Eldar/GK list t1500 -1750 (I have just enough models for that left with a few tweaks).

I have to admit I love the teleporter on the DK, but it is very expensive.

I was thinking about trying to deepstrike one w/o a teleporter next time, and have the other one with a teleporter. Mostly just to try and save some points. I'd rather always put teleporters onto them, just for that 12" move every time; they seem so slow moving only 6".

Yeah, thats my problem with not giving them the Teliporter.

They arn't that hard to kill so they need the speed to get them in to position so they can start doing damage.

In three games against decent opponents I lost one DK and used no teleporters. At nova the most successful two GK lists used DKs without teleporters (the one with three slightly outperformed the one with two). Not that Nova is the be all end all for measuring effectiveness but it is a good starting point. I have my teleporters magnetized. I won't be using them in my MC Eldar/GK list.

Funny we are talking about the GKs and not the experiment I ran - a block of terminators and crud=saders with a libbie with prescience.

Wait, do they actually have Teliporter bits in the DK kit?

I've assembled 2 so far and I've never seen anything suggesting it was a Teliporter.

Funny, I've never seen anything that looks like the teleporter in the DK kits either. Was it like a special add on you had for it?

Also, remember that the eldar runes of warding will totally screw over your own GK's as they are just allies of convenience so they are actually enemies. Though I guess if you are doing an avatar + wraithlords and DK build, it's probably going to be a non-issue.

I soooo wanted to do a daemons + GK build but I totally understand the fluff behind it. Ahh such is life. Incidentially, as forgeworld is more and more accepted it seems, I'm going to have to go look up the rules for like inquisitor Rex and the like to see how they fit in with everything.

Also mostly I guess since I'm going Tau for fun in my next army, it makes me a bit biased <_<

So sometime in mid October I have a 1250 singles tourny at my local store. The game boards will be 4'x4' and most likely with 1 major terrain piece per 2'x'2' with some minor pieces in each quadron as well. I want to ask my fellow brothers here about some list help. I've been running a Purifier list and it's been performing well in most games its just gotten SO stale. Crowe, 3x MSU of prurifiers in Rhinos, 3x Pysrifle dreads, and a small strike squad. Max psycannons of course. I'm looking for something fresh.

I'd go Crowe, 3 MSU Purifiers in Rhinos, 1 MSU Strikes in Rhino, 2 Dreads, Storm Raven.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
I'd go Crowe, 3 MSU Purifiers in Rhinos, 1 MSU Strikes in Rhino, 2 Dreads, Storm Raven.

Thanks Godless, but the points come out to around 1400 and thats mostly bare bones, just psycannons.

Ah so it does. Drop the Strikes and the list should be around the 1180pts mark; double Psycannon and Hammer on the Purifiers. Use the points left to beef up the Purifiers or get a Divination Inquisitor.